Author Topic: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership  (Read 349267 times)

Offline DutchRed

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #160 on: October 29, 2011, 09:50:14 pm »
I think the time may have come to make them two our main men at the back. It's been a long, long time since I watched an away game as relaxed as today. Carragher is one for the big games and I suggest we should mainly use him in big games from now on.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #161 on: October 29, 2011, 09:52:18 pm »
There was a point today where we passed it around at the back and between Lucas/adam...that must have frustrated west brom so much.  It's something Barca do when they have their opponents on the ropes to force them into opening up..to break the siege mentality. Lovely to see.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #162 on: October 29, 2011, 09:53:12 pm »
Thought they done well today, looked comfortable all game.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #163 on: October 29, 2011, 09:53:58 pm »
love watching the agger and skrtel partnership


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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #164 on: October 29, 2011, 09:57:56 pm »
I think the time may have come to make them two our main men at the back. It's been a long, long time since I watched an away game as relaxed as today. Carragher is one for the big games and I suggest we should mainly use him in big games from now on.

Not really a vote of confidence to drop one of them for a big game.

Carra should be benched until either injury or form dictates otherwise.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #165 on: October 29, 2011, 09:58:57 pm »
Thing is though these two will never form a long term partnership, simply because Agger is injury prone.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #166 on: October 29, 2011, 10:08:00 pm »
Thing is though these two will never form a long term partnership, simply because Agger is injury prone.

Ledley King, Thomas Vermailen, Rio Ferdinand a couple of years ago prove that if you best centre backs are fit then you play them. Skrtel and Agger haven't been paired as Centre backs since January but they continued were they left off and kept another clean sheet.

That's something we haven't done against 11 men since last season. It is a partnership made in heaven a rugged uncompromising aggressive stopper alongside the best ball playing centre back since Jocky.

The most pleasing thing for me was that the majority of injury time encompassing of our keeper and defence backing there ability and keeping the ball under pressure for pass after pass. We had five Beckanbauer's refusing to empty it.
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Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #167 on: October 29, 2011, 10:24:09 pm »
Wouldn't be that quick to right of Carra just yet but the day is coming soon that he wont be first choice. West brom were shite today so that has to be taken into account.

Coates wasn't bought just to make up the numbers either so time will tell. Agger is number one when fit but for me Martin could be improved on long term.

From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

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Offline KingsRevolution

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #169 on: October 29, 2011, 10:26:32 pm »
Boss.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #170 on: October 29, 2011, 10:27:36 pm »
Did well enough to deserve starting together against Swansea.

Have never jumped on the anti Carra bandwagon that exists in some quarters, but I do think there will be something wrong if he automatically jumps straight back into the team next week.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #171 on: October 29, 2011, 10:29:18 pm »
Ledley King, Thomas Vermailen, Rio Ferdinand a couple of years ago prove that if you best centre backs are fit then you play them. Skrtel and Agger haven't been paired as Centre backs since January but they continued were they left off and kept another clean sheet.

That's something we haven't done against 11 men since last season. It is a partnership made in heaven a rugged uncompromising aggressive stopper alongside the best ball playing centre back since Jocky.

The most pleasing thing for me was that the majority of injury time encompassing of our keeper and defence backing there ability and keeping the ball under pressure for pass after pass. We had five Beckanbauer's refusing to empty it.

None of that takes away from my point that Agger is unreliable injury wise.  If both started next few games and came through with flying colours then this is the time to hand out plaudits, with Chelsea away on the horizon.  Today both could've had a picnic so poor were WBA

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #172 on: October 29, 2011, 10:31:09 pm »
Carra should be benched until either injury or form dictates otherwise.

Happy with that.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #173 on: October 29, 2011, 10:33:14 pm »
can't really measure them against West Brom. They were pathetic in the first half and only came of life in the later stages of the second half. Agger/Skrtel partnership needs a tougher test to gauge if this is the best pairing we have

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #174 on: October 29, 2011, 10:35:52 pm »
We looked solid today.
This threads gone downhill fast.
It promised so much but failed dismally.

Offline rob1408

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #175 on: October 29, 2011, 11:00:43 pm »
In my opinion Skrtel has been our best central defenser this season, if Agger stays fit, Kenny is going to have to make a tough decision.  I like Carragher, and he has been a rock for us, but I feel his time as an automatic choice is at an end.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #176 on: October 29, 2011, 11:11:09 pm »
None of that takes away from my point that Agger is unreliable injury wise.  If both started next few games and came through with flying colours then this is the time to hand out plaudits, with Chelsea away on the horizon.  Today both could've had a picnic so poor were WBA

What happened to leadership qualities, not so long ago it was Carra has to start because Stevie is injured. Then we had the nonsense about Coates not being able to start because of a language barrier.

What next are you going to do a Domenech and say Carra has to start because we don't have enough player's with the star sign Aquarius.

It was a very similar WBA side to the one that beat us last season, the major difference is that we didn't start the game with an Achilles heal.

You have the cheek to say today was about having a picnic, when was the last time Carra had a defensive picnic for Club or Country against a full compliment of players?
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Offline NorthamptonKopite

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #177 on: October 29, 2011, 11:13:38 pm »
West Brom didn't throw much at us tonight. But everything they did throw at us, these two looked as cool as can be.

Gotta start with the same back four for the game against Swansea. Would be very unfair to change it now.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #178 on: October 29, 2011, 11:18:23 pm »
the whole back four looked much more relaxed without carra screaming every minute of the game! hes been one of the best to ever put on a red shirt but its time for a change! cant possibly change the back four after a clean sheet away from home!
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #179 on: October 29, 2011, 11:18:52 pm »
Did we defend higher up the pitch?
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #180 on: October 30, 2011, 12:08:30 am »
What happened to leadership qualities, not so long ago it was Carra has to start because Stevie is injured. Then we had the nonsense about Coates not being able to start because of a language barrier.

What next are you going to do a Domenech and say Carra has to start because we don't have enough player's with the star sign Aquarius.

It was a very similar WBA side to the one that beat us last season, the major difference is that we didn't start the game with an Achilles heal.

You have the cheek to say today was about having a picnic, when was the last time Carra had a defensive picnic for Club or Country against a full compliment of players?

No idea who you're referring to here.  You suggesting I said Carra must always start because SG is injured?  You're either confusing me with someone else, or else you're confused. I'd opt for the latter.

Coates can't start because of lingo?  WTF you on about?  When did I say this?  If you're referring to general comments from others then don't quote me as if I said that.

Aquarius?  WTF?

And today WAS a picnic.  WBA were woeful.

But that's all taking away from the fact that you appear to be on a different planet with all that shit you've just made up.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #181 on: October 30, 2011, 12:20:23 am »
Our best defensive partnership. We looked so solid and confident at the back today and we caught them offside so many times. I think they need to play together for around another 15-20 games this season for us so we can have that consistency in defence and the solidarity at the back which comes from them both so we can push higher up the table and not worry about conceding as many stupid goals. I know it's West Brom and it seems I'm getting carried away, but this partnership will be the difference in conceding a lot fewer goals over the course of the season if they play together.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 12:22:34 am by Matt8pie »
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #182 on: October 30, 2011, 12:24:50 am »
The most pleasing thing today was not only the way we were able to not only play the ball from the back on the floor but the closing of the gap between our midfield & strikers. When Carra's on the field it's almost like Lucas has to sit right on top of him in case there's a need to bail him out. Without that it seemed to me like the midfield had a lot more freedom. There were plenty of occasions today wherein we had Suarez, Carroll, Downing/Henderson in the box with Adam lurking as the delivery came in.

There was even in a point wherein Agger made a surge into the box, though west brom were relatively toothless I can't imagine us being that adventurous with Carra at the back. His lack of pace just doesn't allow it.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #183 on: October 30, 2011, 12:31:25 am »
No idea who you're referring to here.  You suggesting I said Carra must always start because SG is injured?  You're either confusing me with someone else, or else you're confused. I'd opt for the latter.

Coates can't start because of lingo?  WTF you on about?  When did I say this?  If you're referring to general comments from others then don't quote me as if I said that.

Aquarius?  WTF?

And today WAS a picnic.  WBA were woeful.

But that's all taking away from the fact that you appear to be on a different planet with all that shit you've just made up.

Seen as you have a remarkable aptitude for lumping all dissenting voices into the same person I thought I would return the compliment. Anyone who comes to the same conclusion about Carra is lumped in as the the third person. Whether I have actually said something or not doesn't seem to matter, as long as someone has then it's fine.

Lets cut to the chase Carra is without doubt one of the Clubs finest servants but when your reputation exceeds your performances then you are going to get stick. No one who suggests that we have better options at Centre back has  personal vendetta or an axe to grind, the simple facts are that we have far better options at Centre back.

We have had numerous explanations as to why Carra must continue to be picked, they have included his ability to organize a defence, something that simply hasn't happened, we look far more disorganised with him in the side.

They have included that without Gerrard we have to have Carra  to galvanise us which has been put to bed by the second half performance against Stoke  a side who have continually got the better of us in recent years and the total domination of a WBA side that beat us last year.

Then we have the supposed language barrier that prevents Coates from getting minutes bit amazingly doesn't seem to have the same affect on his compatriot Suarez.

With that gone what have we left is it what Samuel Johnson called the last refuge of a scoundrel?
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Offline Matt8Pie

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #184 on: October 30, 2011, 12:36:08 am »
We have had numerous explanations as to why Carra must continue to be picked, they have included his ability to organize a defence, something that simply hasn't happened, we look far more disorganised with him in the side.

I've never understood this as an excuse to keep him in the defence. Okay, he shouts a lot and tells people where to be but we have Reina at the back as well as Agger who are both more than capable of organising the team defensively. It's almost as if people are saying we can't be organised at the back without Carragher's orders which is a bit of a dig at the capabilities of our other defenders.

They're not headless chickens running around in our defence and as shown today with the amount of offsides, we are more than capable of being organised at the back with a high line.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #185 on: October 30, 2011, 12:37:02 am »
Seen as you have a remarkable aptitude for lumping all dissenting voices into the same person 

When?  An example would be useful.

As for the rest of your post I generally agree Agger and someone else would be the preferred partnership.  Maybe Skrtel maybe Coates who knows.  However Agger is always injured so therefore until Kenny trusts Coates to take the reins like it or not Carra will be playing.

And to be entirely honest.  Me and you could've played in the heart of defence today for Liverpool in between eating the picnic, such was the state of WBA.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #186 on: October 30, 2011, 12:42:45 am »
Did we defend higher up the pitch?

Yes. IIRC we caught someone offside not far away from the halfway line.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #187 on: October 30, 2011, 12:43:36 am »
How can people say we should phase Carra out and just use him for big games?

Bit moronic don't you think? If you have two lads in there playing well week in week out collecting clean sheets then you come up against say Man u or Chelsea... What? Ya gonna drop them and put Carra in? Senseless.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #188 on: October 30, 2011, 12:43:49 am »
Ledley King, Thomas Vermailen, Rio Ferdinand a couple of years ago prove that if you best centre backs are fit then you play them. Skrtel and Agger haven't been paired as Centre backs since January but they continued were they left off and kept another clean sheet.

That's something we haven't done against 11 men since last season. It is a partnership made in heaven a rugged uncompromising aggressive stopper alongside the best ball playing centre back since Jocky.

The most pleasing thing for me was that the majority of injury time encompassing of our keeper and defence backing there ability and keeping the ball under pressure for pass after pass. We had five Beckanbauer's refusing to empty it.

Hmm... where have I heard that term  :P :P

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #189 on: October 30, 2011, 12:52:12 am »
They kept the ball and resisted the urge to lump it up to Carroll at every opportunity, and we kept another clean sheet with these 2 as a partnership. West Brom or not, their positioning helped as Lucas and Adam didn't have to constantly sit on their toes as is normally the case when Carragher plays
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #190 on: October 30, 2011, 12:53:17 am »
How can people say we should phase Carra out and just use him for big games?

Bit moronic don't you think? If you have two lads in there playing well week in week out collecting clean sheets then you come up against say Man u or Chelsea... What? Ya gonna drop them and put Carra in? Senseless.

Phasing Carra out means not starting every game, not shutting him out, no?
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Offline 1021

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #191 on: October 30, 2011, 12:58:01 am »
The are the right partnership for Liverpool FC now.
And Agger has just player 180 minutes in four days, hopefully a good sign.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #192 on: October 30, 2011, 01:02:58 am »
When?  An example would be useful.

As for the rest of your post I generally agree Agger and someone else would be the preferred partnership.  Maybe Skrtel maybe Coates who knows.  However Agger is always injured so therefore until Kenny trusts Coates to take the reins like it or not Carra will be playing.

And to be entirely honest.  Me and you could've played in the heart of defence today for Liverpool in between eating the picnic, such was the state of WBA.

You honestly think that at the present stage of their careers Carra is a better centre back than Skrtel. Supposedly the weakest area of Skrtel's game is his tackling.

Opta stats on tackling percentage.



Show me any stat any link that shows Carra in a better light than Skrtel or Agger.

The only thing people like you can come up with is mythical qualities that cannot be quantified like leadership or organisational ability. Carra is a true legend, a once in a lifetime whole hearted talisman bit his time has passed.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #193 on: October 30, 2011, 01:05:00 am »
Telling stats there, Al.

I posted this in the defensive line thead, but I'll put it in here aswell.

Like I said during the game, it's quite possible that a defence without Carragher in it plays with a lot more confidence, purely because it's probably nice for them to not be shouted and screamed at for 90+ minutes and blamed for everything that goes wrong. It's all Carra does all game long - point, shout, scream, point some more, scream, shout, hoof, scream, point, and then blame the nearest person to him when there's a mistake made, even when he's just as at fault.

I'm not dismissing his contribution to the defence or how good a defender he is and has been, I'm just saying that both Skrtel and particularly Agger played with a smile on their faces today. They looked really comfortable with each other. Agger coming forward at will, Skrtel staying back, and the two of them just communicating and getting on with it. I can't remember a single instance during the game where either of them were screaming at each other to do something, they just did it.

Not to mention how much longer that ball stays on the floor and is actually moved from the defence rather than hoisted. Sure, there were a couple of occasions where it was necessary to smash it out but overall it was very much a case of bringing it out and keeping it at the feet, rather than giving it to Carra to do his 'tap...tap...hoof' routine, which is done religiously for some reason. Agger can bring that ball out really well, can get forward, can link the midfield, and looks very very comfortable doing all those things. I can't help feeling that Carra stops him from doing it as often when they're on the same pitch.

I don't think it's the end for Carragher, nor should it be, but fuck me he has little claim to just walk back in to the side when he's fit again. The fact that we almost know he will is really depressing, because we have some players here who I think deserve the chance to form a better partnership. Our central positions have never been great, not sice Hyypia left, and surely someone has to see that it could very well be because of Carragher and not always the fault of whomever he's partnered with?

If he doesn't play against Swansea and we keep a clean sheet then I see no reason why it shouldn't be Agger and Skrtel for the forseeable future. Allow them to grow that partnership and see where it takes us. Gerrard being out injured doesn't help them though, as I think Kenny will sacrifice any stability back there just to have a 'leader' out on the pitch in Carra, which is a shame.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #194 on: October 30, 2011, 01:06:39 am »

Apologies for the naivety, but is "cl" and "b" clearances and blocks?
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #195 on: October 30, 2011, 01:07:30 am »
Great performance by the 2 men today, should continue to play unless hit by injury or loss of form. Someone suggests that they play well because it was like a picnic out there today with WB's weak attack. It sounds familiar because whenever we won against some big team (Barca, Real, Manc........), the media would prefer to highlight how bad they were instead of praising our brilliant performance!

Although I don't have any statistics on hand, but the number of offside decisions we got today suggest that we played a higher defensive line and the defence is pretty well organized.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #196 on: October 30, 2011, 01:09:22 am »
You honestly think that at the present stage of their careers Carra is a better centre back than Skrtel. Supposedly the weakest area of Skrtel's game is his tackling.

Opta stats on tackling percentage.



Show me any stat any link that shows Carra in a better light than Skrtel or Agger.

The only thing people like you can come up with is mythical qualities that cannot be quantified like leadership or organisational ability. Carra is a true legend, a once in a lifetime whole hearted talisman bit his time has passed.



Again I'm gonna have to press you for a real example.  Where in my previous posts have I said Carra is a better option than Skrtel?

In my previous post I made a quite valid point that Agger is always injured, but that if he wasn't he should be the key centre half.

People like 'me'? Can only come up with 'mythical' qualities?

Listen to yourself mate.  You're making shite up as you go along.  Fuckin deluded, if not embarrasing

Offline Not funny reecehenebry

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #197 on: October 30, 2011, 01:09:30 am »
Apologies for the naivety, but is "cl" and "b" clearances and blocks?
Yes.

Quick look at Carra's shows were all those hoofs are placed...under clearances.
Why are you looking past this season?

Offline Redwhiteandnotblue

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #198 on: October 30, 2011, 01:15:15 am »
Apologies for the naivety, but is "cl" and "b" clearances and blocks?

Yes. It says that at the bottom of the image :P

Offline Matt8Pie

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #199 on: October 30, 2011, 01:21:05 am »
Yes. It says that at the bottom of the image :P

Haha. Woe is me.
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