Topic: The RAWK Investment/Trading Thread

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

Think your right here mate.  More chance of me following a horse racing tip in the racing thread.  And I do dabble in a bit of crypto.

My Crypto holding is the drug dealers coin of choice. (not that I am one of those guys like)

Spoiler

(XMR)

[close]

Will soon be the politician's coin of choice.
Especially those with PPE contracts.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

You've literally been told not to discuss crypto currency, thrown a hissy fit, said that was it for you on RAWK, and now a few hours later you're just back on it like nothing happened

It'll just get locked again, which would be annoying for the people who are interested in investments that aren't shitcoins.

a hissy fit?
you are letting your imagination run away with you sunshine.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

The thing is with crypto.
There are coins for monetary value...no names...dont wanna piss anyone off.
Then there are coins which are really networks or exchanges or services wthin the eco system...which are a part of the whole crypto eco system.
Then there are projects like games..

The latter 2 are really like normal companies..instead of shares , they have stakes as coins.

I think the subject should be freely available to talk about and give advice about the pitfalls and how to make it easier to avoid stupid fees etc.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

btw did i mention.
I as researching a project...joined a discord for this project and started asking some questions.
The project has hired Michael Owen and are gonna use his stables as an NFT....true btw.

I asked how deep the game is gonna be ..because i suspected it was just a front for launching NFTs and gambling...and not really a game for low level players.
The fuckers didn't like the questions regarding the depth of the game...and banned me from the discord....i smell a rat with this project...but this will pump early on when the game gets released then probably die away quickly.

btw fucking fascists for banning me dont you think?

[filopastry]

think you have an issue working out what is childish.

for starters the payouts on premium bonds will be at or below inflation...and it is a way to keep money in the uk.
But it generates zero tax.
so when they have to print money , at some point your stash will get devalued.

just pointing out what lots are learning now about the money system as its an area where people dint really give a fuck about.
so your 125 winnings...from a 20k investment...your choice to have a think if you did the right thing...and if it makes you feel happy , chuck in the childish for that little ego pump..or you could talk sensibly about it?

We have negative real interest rates, of course PBs are going to generate a negative real rate of return, that applies to any risk-free or minimal risk asset at present.

You may be able to beat that rate of return elsewhere but obviously by taking on a lot more risk in terms of volatility.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

We have negative real interest rates, of course PBs are going to generate a negative real rate of return, that applies to any risk-free or minimal risk asset at present.

You may be able to beat that rate of return elsewhere but obviously by taking on a lot more risk in terms of volatility.

Of course risk ....
I know some people do not like risk even if the rewards are worth the risk.

But i see no sense in sticking 20k on knowing you have to get lucky to avoid losing money....and that is without factoring in the money printed by the government to pay their mates.
That will come back to bite and devalue what PB holders lent to the government.

It is one big ponzi scheme....

[filopastry]

Of course risk ....
I know some people do not like risk even if the rewards are worth the risk.

But i see no sense in sticking 20k on knowing you have to get lucky to avoid losing money....and that is without factoring in the money printed by the government to pay their mates.
That will come back to bite and devalue what PB holders lent to the government.

It is one big ponzi scheme....

Equally I'm not sure many people really understand the risks of a sustained downturn in asset prices, we have had a hell of a bull market across all types of asset classes, and I think a lot of people now feel that is somehow unstoppable and any downturn is short term and just another buying opportunity.

Its going to be interesting to see how inflation and the easy money environment plays out over the coming months and years, I doubt anyone could say with much certainty what is going to happen.

Its a very difficult environment to hedge in as well as pretty much everything looks expensive and its hard to find uncorrelated assets anymore if we get significant rate rises (far from certain) and the market goes "risk-off" then a lot of people could be in for a bit of a shock.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

To be clear on bonds for those fairly new to this: a lot of the talk is about Premium bonds (UK)  on here,  not to be confused with the global bond market where you can choose (well depending on the broker or bank) whether to purchase bonds from a country, municipality (US),   corporation,  trade on the secondary markets,  purchase bonds through an etf,  or through a CEF (closed end fund)  / Investment Trust.  Depending on your tax residency,  for retail accounts,  the best balance,  imo,  is usually a CEF of investment grade debt,  as CEFs are permitted to use leverage.  So the underlying is still of a very good quality,  the leverage ups the yield,  obviously you pay more on the expense ratio side. Blackrock and Guggenheim do a number of such funds for the US,  good management teams,  track record.  Blackrock is probably the best in this sphere. Off the top of my head I would recommend BHK,  BKT and GBAB as long term holds for bond funds,  as long as your country has a decent taxation agreement with the US / a version of that fund is available to you.

[Joff]

think you have an issue working out what is childish.

for starters the payouts on premium bonds will be at or below inflation...and it is a way to keep money in the uk.
But it generates zero tax.
so when they have to print money , at some point your stash will get devalued.

just pointing out what lots are learning now about the money system as its an area where people dint really give a fuck about.
so your 125 winnings...from a 20k investment...your choice to have a think if you did the right thing...and if it makes you feel happy , chuck in the childish for that little ego pump..or you could talk sensibly about it?

I am talking sensibly. I'm not throwing hissy fits for one.
£125 is more than I would get from any saver for a whole year from 20k, let alone with a chance of a large prize. With ZERO risk.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

Equally I'm not sure many people really understand the risks of a sustained downturn in asset prices, we have had a hell of a bull market across all types of asset classes, and I think a lot of people now feel that is somehow unstoppable and any downturn is short term and just another buying opportunity.

Its going to be interesting to see how inflation and the easy money environment plays out over the coming months and years, I doubt anyone could say with much certainty what is going to happen.

Its a very difficult environment to hedge in as well as pretty much everything looks expensive and its hard to find uncorrelated assets anymore if we get significant rate rises (far from certain) and the market goes "risk-off" then a lot of people could be in for a bit of a shock.

Agree...no one can predict even if they think they are gurus on twitter.....this winter could be interesting especially if a lockdown happens and furlough returns....i personally think that how (the subject matter) kicked off another boom...people became interested.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

I am talking sensibly. I'm not throwing hissy fits for one.
£125 is more than I would get from any saver for a whole year from 20k, let alone with a chance of a large prize. With ZERO risk.

Not sure you fully understand.
Yes with low interest rates...you are still losing money effectively...inflation is eating away at it...with 20k in PB and 125 winnings...you are still losing.
inflation is killing it...slowly.

[Joff]

Not sure you fully understand.
Yes with low interest rates...you are still losing money effectively...inflation is eating away at it...with 20k in PB and 125 winnings...you are still losing.
inflation is killing it...slowly.

I fully understand how it works, no need to patronise.
You're presuming £125 is all I'll get out of them.

[John C]

We're opening this strictly on the basis of no bitcoin, crypto or similar high risk investments being discussed, whatsoever.

I'm interested to know what are people doing lately in terms of investments, types of ISA's or trading?

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

We're opening this strictly on the basis of no bitcoin, crypto or similar high risk investments being discussed, whatsoever.

I'm interested to know what are people doing lately in terms of investments, types of ISA's or trading?

Badly John, very badly!
Last year was a crazy year. One of very few when fixed interest and shares both lost money.
The worst thing was that because of how fixed interest performed, supposedly lower risk portfolios did worse than higher risk.

Good shout on crypto. It’s gambling not investing.

[John C]

Badly John, very badly!
Last year was a crazy year. One of very few when fixed interest and shares both lost money.

I've got a mate who is keen on the subject but just dabbles. Until the last month I've had zero interest, knowledge or inclination to look at stocks and shares but the subject came up in a podcast and now I feel like looking in to it, particularly as interest rates remain poor.
I've opened a Saxo account - what platform do you use?
And I've made a few investments in to copper mining - is there anything people feel is worth an investment in without encouraging speculating (I know it's all the same).

I've also obtained a broad spread of ISA's which just need leaving for a few years now but I'm interested in the type of ISA's others might have after April 2023.

[PaulF]

I'm probably worse than amateur, but I've always liked the ease of using my Hargreaves Lansdowne account.
In terms of'investing'. Pretty much any government sell off seems to be safe. Not happens very often. Id also look at where money can be made in reaction to changes in government policy. Eg heat pumps or electric cars.   Look at t the failure of the giga battery factory to see why I should be ignored.
Wrapping it in Lisa if you still can seems sensible.

[CraigDS]

Good shout on crypto. It’s gambling not investing.

So is trading for a huge number of people who don't do their research (or even know what to research).

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I've got a mate who is keen on the subject but just dabbles. Until the last month I've had zero interest, knowledge or inclination to look at stocks and shares but the subject came up in a podcast and now I feel like looking in to it, particularly as interest rates remain poor.
I've opened a Saxo account - what platform do you use?
And I've made a few investments in to copper mining - is there anything people feel is worth an investment in without encouraging speculating (I know it's all the same).

I've also obtained a broad spread of ISA's which just need leaving for a few years now but I'm interested in the type of ISA's others might have after April 2023.

I use interactive investor.
I tend to use collective investments like OEICS or investment trusts. They can focus on specific themes or sectors but spread risk over different holdings rather than just one stock. Single stocks are just too risky for me, generally speaking.
Even collectives can be volatile too so it’s a case of doing your own research and making sure you’re comfortable with risk. Ask yourself how you’d react if your investment halved or worse?
Unless it’s just fun money - which is more akin to gambling, I’d start with something quite vanilla like a global tracker or a fund which invests across different asset classes (multi asset funds)
Single co shares, especially tiny companies are a law unto themselves and small private investors can be wiped out, so again if this sector appeals, I’d say use a fund because risk is spread over a number of holdings.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

So is trading for a huge number of people who don't do their research (or even know what to research).

Spot on Craig. People see it as potential easy money, but private investors usually lose.
They are competing with well resources investment houses with vast human and computing resources. They’ll know what’s going on before PIs get a chance to react.

[Elmo!]

I just have a S&S ISA with Fidelity with money spread between a few different funds, but mostly in Vanguard Global All Cap and Lifestrategy 100. It's performed crap over the last year but I'm not too fussed, its in there for the long haul and means I'm buying on the cheap when I put money in each month.

Trading individual stocks isn't for me, and IMO is essentially gambling.

[John C]

I just have a S&S ISA with Fidelity with money spread between a few different funds, but mostly in Vanguard Global All Cap and Lifestrategy 100. It's performed crap over the last year but I'm not too fussed, its in there for the long haul and means I'm buying on the cheap when I put money in each month.

I can't explain why but I just couldn't get an account to open with Fidelity, it's pointless going over it all as I'm with Vanguard also now (I might revisit them after April). I've got a couple of the lifestrategy ISA's at different risk levels. I'll be on a huge learning curve over the next few years and as you say, just need to be patient.

[west_london_red]

I can't explain why but I just couldn't get an account to open with Fidelity, it's pointless going over it all as I'm with Vanguard also now (I might revisit them after April). I've got a couple of the lifestrategy ISA's at different risk levels. I'll be on a huge learning curve over the next few years and as you say, just need to be patient.

If you’re under 40 and haven’t already done it, open a LISA with Vanguard and use that to buy whichever fund you’re interested in if you can. The 25% government top us goes down a treat I find.

[John C]

If you’re under 40 and haven’t already done it, open a LISA with Vanguard and use that to buy whichever fund you’re interested in if you can. The 25% government top us goes down a treat I find.

I wish I was mate, no I'm well over 40, thanks though.

[.adam]

If you’re under 40 and haven’t already done it, open a LISA with Vanguard and use that to buy whichever fund you’re interested in if you can. The 25% government top us goes down a treat I find.

Worth pointing out that if you're a higher rate taxpayer, contributing to your pension is likely to be more beneficial.

[PaulF]

Worth pointing out that if you're a higher rate taxpayer, contributing to your pension is likely to be more beneficial.

Totally.
Also, if you are married to someone under 40, (and expect to still be married in 20odd years) , you can take advantage of their LISA (Can also be hargreaves Lansdowne, just for choice).
Though the still married bit is a huge gamble!

And for those that think they can act faster and beat the big boys, the word of warning that sunk home with me, is that these guys* buy prime property to be near the stock exchange because even signals travelling at light speed get there faster if you are close, and those fractions of milliseconds make a difference.

The private individuals that do win are just lucky.  Some people are just lucky


*It's nearly always guys.

[west_london_red]

Worth pointing out that if you're a higher rate taxpayer, contributing to your pension is likely to be more beneficial.

I have read that before but I guess it depends on your situation. For me, I have a final salary pension with 15 years service already and I can take the full pension at 60 so pension wise I’m in a good spot, the LISA also pays out at 60, the kids will be in their early 20’s and I’ll be off to any country with warm weather that will accept me and Mrs WLR… just another 19 years to go  :'(

[west_london_red]

And for those that think they can act faster and beat the big boys, the word of warning that sunk home with me, is that these guys* buy prime property to be near the stock exchange because even signals travelling at light speed get there faster if you are close, and those fractions of milliseconds make a difference.

The private individuals that do win are just lucky.  Some people are just lucky


*It's nearly always guys.

That’s been going on since they stopped shouting and waving their hands at each other in those silly coloured coats!

[The G in Gerrard]

If you’re under 40 and haven’t already done it, open a LISA with Vanguard and use that to buy whichever fund you’re interested in if you can. The 25% government top us goes down a treat I find.

What's that all about and how do you do it?

[PaulF]

What's that all about and how do you do it?

It's a wrapper around your isa investment encouraging you to save. / Invest. Healthy bit added by the govt, but they take it away and more if you withdraw without buying first house or retiring. Though I'm not sure what retiring actually means in this day and age.

[Elmo!]

There's a limit to paying in £4,000 per year, and the government will add £1000 per year - if you use it to buy your first home, or keep it in there until you are 60. You can only pay in, and they only pay in the bonus until you reach aged 50.

[west_london_red]

It's a wrapper around your isa investment encouraging you to save. / Invest. Healthy bit added by the govt, but they take it away and more if you withdraw without buying first house or retiring. Though I'm not sure what retiring actually means in this day and age.

With a LISA retiring means hitting 60, then you can withdraw with no penalty ie your investment + 25% from the government + any growth

What's that all about and how do you do it?

There’s only a hand full of companies that offer it, Nutmeg, Hargreaves Landsdown and AJ Bell are the ones that I am aware of and there’s a couple of others.

[PaulF]

Thanks Wlr.  Just to be sure, it does just mean being 60. It doesn't affect anything else, ie having to withdraw main pension? 

[west_london_red]

Thanks Wlr.  Just to be sure, it does just mean being 60. It doesn't affect anything else, ie having to withdraw main pension? 

No, it’s just hitting 60 with no other conditions or strings.

[reddebs]

Can any of you recommend a good savings method for my granddaughter please?

She's 12 now and I set her up with one of those GoHenry cards when she started high school that I pay into every week and her other grandparents do the same.

Thing is she's accumulating a fair amount now which seems silly when it could be earning her interest.

Is a junior ISA that she can't touch till she's 18 better even though it's less interest than say a normal bank/building society that pays more?

She'll still have access to her GoHenry for any occasional shopping she wants to do.

[west_london_red]

The issue with the Junior ISAs specifically is that the money is the child’s so when they turn 18 it’s all theirs and there’s nothing you can do about it. So if the kid goes down the wrong path as a teenager or your worried they are going to turn 18 and spunk it all on flash clothes and crap you can’t deny them the money.

You can open other accounts for kids where you still have control of the money so that’s what we did with ours.

The other thing to consider is the adult ISA limit is £20k a year so unless she’s likely to have more then that saved up by the time she’s 18, I’d just take whichever account pays the most interest for now and then stick it in an ISA when she turns 18 and is in danger of getting taxed on the interest. It’s an absolute piss take the way banks pay less interest on an ISA compared to a regular savings account, it makes no difference to the bank if it’s an ISA or not, that’s between you and the tax man but the banks still screw you.

[reddebs]

The issue with the Junior ISAs specifically is that the money is the child’s so when they turn 18 it’s all theirs and there’s nothing you can do about it. So if the kid goes down the wrong path as a teenager or your worried they are going to turn 18 and spunk it all on flash clothes and crap you can’t deny them the money.

You can open other accounts for kids where you still have control of the money so that’s what we did with ours.

The other thing to consider is the adult ISA limit is £20k a year so unless she’s likely to have more then that saved up by the time she’s 18, I’d just take whichever account pays the most interest for now and then stick it in an ISA when she turns 18 and is in danger of getting taxed on the interest. It’s an absolute piss take the way banks pay less interest on an ISA compared to a regular savings account, it makes no difference to the bank if it’s an ISA or not, that’s between you and the tax man but the banks still screw you.

Thanks for that mate.

Halifax is paying 5% fixed for 12mths so I'll probably go with that for now.

[The G in Gerrard]

It's a wrapper around your isa investment encouraging you to save. / Invest. Healthy bit added by the govt, but they take it away and more if you withdraw without buying first house or retiring. Though I'm not sure what retiring actually means in this day and age.

With a LISA retiring means hitting 60, then you can withdraw with no penalty ie your investment + 25% from the government + any growth

There’s only a hand full of companies that offer it, Nutmeg, Hargreaves Landsdown and AJ Bell are the ones that I am aware of and there’s a couple of others.

Cheers. Forgot Mrs already did one for when we bought our first place. She can't do one again?

Great information on the junior one's as well.

[PaulF]

Cheers. Forgot Mrs already did one for when we bought our first place. She can't do one again?

Great information on the junior one's as well.

Only one per person
Maybe if you have children over 18....

[west_london_red]

Only one per person
Maybe if you have children over 18....

I don’t think that’s right, you can have more then one just as long as you don’t put in more then £4k per year and only pay into one per year.

[PaulF]

Yes. I think you are right.
Ignore me please .