Author Topic: Arsenal  (Read 5782835 times)

Offline child-in-time

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41440 on: February 7, 2017, 10:15:14 am »
3 league titles and 6 fa cups will never not matter. Its the only thing that matters. No other manager since the 30s got us that. That doesn't mean he should stay, but Liverpool revere far less successful managers than him. The vitriol he gets is embarrassing, when he goes and we carry on winning nothing. Then the owners will have no one to hide behind.
3 league titles who look more and more distant and definitely not happening again. The vitriol he gets is partly his fault too, because he is blind to his own inability and does the same mistakes over and over again. He could have walked in 2014. He didn't. He should walk this season but the media says he's certain to sign an extension. Is that someone's else fault?
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Offline The North Bank

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41441 on: February 7, 2017, 10:24:00 am »
3 league titles who look more and more distant and definitely not happening again. The vitriol he gets is partly his fault too, because he is blind to his own inability and does the same mistakes over and over again. He could have walked in 2014. He didn't. He should walk this season but the media says he's certain to sign an extension. Is that someone's else fault?

His biggest fault is covering for the owners. Saying he believes his team is good enough, or that he can't find the players to improve us, or that the money is there but he trusts the likes of denilson and bendtner.
There is an eerie similarity to another top manager, working for American business men.
Only on one hand the manager gets the blame, on another, the real culprits do.
Both managers believe they can work miracles, as they have done it before in their careers, that has been the undoing of one and may be the undoing of the other.

Offline child-in-time

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41442 on: February 7, 2017, 10:29:31 am »
His biggest fault is covering for the owners. Saying he believes his team is good enough, or that he can't find the players to improve us, or that the money is there but he trusts the likes of denilson and bendtner.
There is an eerie similarity to another top manager, working for American business men.
Only on one hand the manager gets the blame, on another, the real culprits do.
Both managers believe they can work miracles, as they have done it before in their careers, that has been the undoing of one and may be the undoing of the other.
Come on. You won 2 fa cups in a row and the only transfer Wengers did was Cech on a free despite all the fanbase crying out for a midfielder and a centre-back.
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Offline The North Bank

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41443 on: February 7, 2017, 11:05:21 am »
Come on. You won 2 fa cups in a row and the only transfer Wengers did was Cech on a free despite all the fanbase crying out for a midfielder and a centre-back.

Couldn't get the players he wanted because of our wage structure so decided that the players available within our wage structure won't improve us. Where he went wrong is believing that what he has can outplay teams and achieve glory.
When other teams have better players than you, you need a tactical upper hand. He never had that. Everything he won was by simply having better players than the opposition. That will never be the case anymore so he should go.

Offline child-in-time

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41444 on: February 7, 2017, 02:08:10 pm »
Couldn't get the players he wanted because of our wage structure so decided that the players available within our wage structure won't improve us.
I call that bullshit
Alderwereild was available for less you paid for Mustafi. Pretty sure he could fit within your wage structure. So could van Dijk. Khedira was available for free. It is just that Wenger didnt go in for any of them.
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Offline ScottishGoon

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41445 on: February 7, 2017, 02:40:15 pm »
I call that bullshit
Alderwereild was available for less you paid for Mustafi. Pretty sure he could fit within your wage structure. So could van Dijk. Khedira was available for free. It is just that Wenger didnt go in for any of them.

I don't think he's defending Wenger by saying that, North Bank already said in his earlier post that that's part of the problem, that Wenger believes the players he has are better than what they are, & that they can only be approved upon by "super quality" players.

Anyway, i dont think if we sign Alderwereild or Van Dijk that we automatically have a better defence. Mustafi is a good defender. Koscielny is a very good defender. But leave them exposed like they were time & time again like on Saturday, & they will struggly, & so will most defences.

Alderwereild plays for a manager that builds solid foundations, & has more structure to the team. They defend as a unit, the midfielders protect, & that's why they have a good defence.

There are occasions when we defend well. Usually, after a heavy defeat & a lot of criticism, the attitude changes, we become more solid, people work harder off the ball & we go through a spell of not conceding many goals. However as the season progresses, that good work slowly starts to dissolve, players become more complacent, & work as hard without the ball & we start to look all over the place defensively. We get worse, until we suffer a pretty heavy defeat & the critics come back out & the cycle continues.

Oh, just a wee correction, Cech wasnt a free transfer, he was £10M.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2017, 02:42:14 pm by ScottishGoon »

Offline The North Bank

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41446 on: February 7, 2017, 02:55:21 pm »
I call that bullshit
Alderwereild was available for less you paid for Mustafi. Pretty sure he could fit within your wage structure. So could van Dijk. Khedira was available for free. It is just that Wenger didnt go in for any of them.

If you give me hindsight I could form a world class 11 on a shoe string budget. Real life doesn't work like that.

Offline Cliff Bastin

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41447 on: February 7, 2017, 06:11:48 pm »
Mustafi is a good defender. Nothing wrong with that signing. Its signings like Xhaka which haven't worked yet. Perez looks good every time he comes on. Makes things happen. Signings aren't the major issue for me. Its just the manager.

Offline ElCapo

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41448 on: February 7, 2017, 07:27:29 pm »
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/03/sports/soccer/arsenal-arsene-wenger-analytics.html

I thought this was quite an interesting article from Rory Smith. Though Arsenal haven't been league contenders for a while it does show that Wenger is keeping up with the modern game and still looking to gain an edge.

From the NYT comments:

The whole Moneyball thing was designed to bridge the gap between the rich and powerful teams in baseball and the small market teams with paltry resources, in comparison.  It is richly ironic that the eighth richest team in the world has bought into small market equalizing analytics.

It would make sense if Smith was writing about, say Bournemouth, with a stadium capacity of 11,000, instead of Arsenal, whose 60,000 seater not only is the third largest capacity in the Prem, but has the most expensive tickets and generates the greatest game day revenue.

Of the top six teams, only Spurs come without a conspicuous sugar daddy. Only Arsenal has TWO of them, who hate each other, and the controlling one is a billionaire who married into the richest family in America, but runs his team as if he's a pauper. Granted, they're on a 20 year run of Champions League qualification, but watching Arsenal & Bayern back to back, it's hard to see how Arsenal doesn't extend their streak of losing in the CL round of 16.

I wonder how analytics saw the biggest ticket signing, Granit Xhaka? He's drawn two red cards, suspended seven matches, and counting. Last year, newly installed as Gladbach captain? He got three reds, including the first game of the year. Did the analysts see that?

I wish Wenger and the analysts well spending 14 hours on Saturday's eyesore.

 :lickin

Offline ElCapo

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41449 on: February 7, 2017, 07:33:52 pm »
If I was him I'd seriously look at what else is out there.

We need a replacement for Ribery

Offline The North Bank

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41450 on: February 7, 2017, 07:43:52 pm »
From the NYT comments:

The whole Moneyball thing was designed to bridge the gap between the rich and powerful teams in baseball and the small market teams with paltry resources, in comparison.  It is richly ironic that the eighth richest team in the world has bought into small market equalizing analytics.

It would make sense if Smith was writing about, say Bournemouth, with a stadium capacity of 11,000, instead of Arsenal, whose 60,000 seater not only is the third largest capacity in the Prem, but has the most expensive tickets and generates the greatest game day revenue.

Of the top six teams, only Spurs come without a conspicuous sugar daddy. Only Arsenal has TWO of them, who hate each other, and the controlling one is a billionaire who married into the richest family in America, but runs his team as if he's a pauper. Granted, they're on a 20 year run of Champions League qualification, but watching Arsenal & Bayern back to back, it's hard to see how Arsenal doesn't extend their streak of losing in the CL round of 16.

I wonder how analytics saw the biggest ticket signing, Granit Xhaka? He's drawn two red cards, suspended seven matches, and counting. Last year, newly installed as Gladbach captain? He got three reds, including the first game of the year. Did the analysts see that?

I wish Wenger and the analysts well spending 14 hours on Saturday's eyesore.

 :lickin

Its fantastic being the 8th richest club in the world.
Its shit being the 2nd richest club in london ,and 4th in England.
It depends which stat you use, the exciting one, or the depressing one.

Also Joe Lewis, owner of spurs, is worth 6 billion pounds. Means nothing if the club is being run as a business, like Arsenal, and Liverpool.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2017, 07:46:43 pm by The North Bank »

Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41451 on: February 7, 2017, 08:54:17 pm »
Its fantastic being the 8th richest club in the world.
Its shit being the 2nd richest club in london ,and 4th in England.
It depends which stat you use, the exciting one, or the depressing one.

Also Joe Lewis, owner of spurs, is worth 6 billion pounds. Means nothing if the club is being run as a business, like Arsenal, and Liverpool.
. . . . . AND Newcastle.

Offline The North Bank

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41452 on: February 7, 2017, 08:57:17 pm »
. . . . . AND Newcastle.

You got the best squad in your division, you got the best manager in your division. What more do you want.

Offline Ashburton

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41453 on: February 7, 2017, 09:29:31 pm »
We need a replacement for Ribery

Yeah Bayern would be my shout.  PSG doesn't seem his style, that said, money talks.  Bayern would couple recent success at the highest level, top manager, and the ability to drop in to the side.  He'd be out on the wing, but then again that's where Wenger was playing him against Watford anyway.

Offline cornelius

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41454 on: February 9, 2017, 11:30:30 am »
Any truth in this Allegri stuff? He'd be shite.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41455 on: February 9, 2017, 11:34:41 am »
Any truth in this Allegri stuff? He'd be shite.

Why would he be shite? His CV is very impressive.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41456 on: February 9, 2017, 11:50:07 am »
You got the best squad in your division, you got the best manager in your division. What more do you want.
A trophy perhaps? Newcastle run with winning nothing is absolutely ridiculous for a club with such a big fan base in a one club city. If Rafa Benitez won them a trophy he would go down as a mythical legend.

Offline Greatness

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41457 on: February 9, 2017, 11:59:26 am »
Why would he be shite? His CV is very impressive.
Exactly, the man's won three Serie A league titles, two Coppa Italia's and he led Juventus to the Champions League final in 2015 beating Klopp's Dortmund 5-1 on aggregate and Real Madrid along the way.

These results are not of a manager who is shit too me, dominating any league isn't easy regardless of whether your the best team in the country or not.
« Last Edit: February 9, 2017, 02:12:21 pm by Greatness »

Offline cornelius

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41458 on: February 9, 2017, 02:15:35 pm »
Why would he be shite? His CV is very impressive.
Exactly, the man's won three Serie A league titles, two Coppa Italia's and he led Juventus to the Champions League final in 2015 beating Klopp's Dortmund 5-1 on aggregate and Real Madrid along the way.

These results are not of a manager who is shit too me, dominating any league isn't easy regardless of whether your the best team in the country or not.

Just my opinion. Poor fit, would get zero time from their fans, has failed before, inherited a great situation at Juventus. If it happens I guess we'll see.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41459 on: February 9, 2017, 04:14:31 pm »
What will happen with Wilshere then? Bournemouth can't afford to take him on a permanent deal.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41460 on: February 9, 2017, 04:19:46 pm »
inherited a great situation at Juventus. If it happens I guess we'll see.

I'm never that sure that taking over from someone who has won almost everything there is to win is that great a situation - yes you have a good team, but look at how often a championship winning team can fall apart - Inter when Rafa took over, Bayern's poor CL performance (relative to their previous success) under Guardiola, Chelsea dropping in the second spell under Maureen after winning the league, Leicester this year, Moyes at the Mancs, it's not always a bed of roses inheriting a club that has been at the top for a while. Not saying your wrong, just that often a team can fall apart quite quickly.
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Offline Cliff Bastin

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41461 on: February 9, 2017, 10:05:18 pm »
Just my opinion. Poor fit, would get zero time from their fans, has failed before, inherited a great situation at Juventus. If it happens I guess we'll see.
No time? We are as patient as hell as a fan base. Allegri will get LOTS of time from us as fans and more importantly the board will give him lots of time too. Welcome Allegri.  :D

Offline cornelius

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41462 on: February 9, 2017, 11:54:08 pm »
No time? We are as patient as hell as a fan base. Allegri will get LOTS of time from us as fans and more importantly the board will give him lots of time too. Welcome Allegri.  :D
The vacuum when Wenger leaves will be huge and the patience levels will be similar to those shown by the mancs with Moyes and Van Gaal. If he came in and they weren't immediately in the top 4 everyone down there will immediately shit themselves and the pressure will be intense.
I'm never that sure that taking over from someone who has won almost everything there is to win is that great a situation - yes you have a good team, but look at how often a championship winning team can fall apart - Inter when Rafa took over, Bayern's poor CL performance (relative to their previous success) under Guardiola, Chelsea dropping in the second spell under Maureen after winning the league, Leicester this year, Moyes at the Mancs, it's not always a bed of roses inheriting a club that has been at the top for a while. Not saying your wrong, just that often a team can fall apart quite quickly.
Inter was a totally different situation. When Allegri came in to Juventus it wasn't far off something akin to Rodgers going in to Celtic such is the weakness of the main challengers and of course it helps any manager when the club is in such a position of strength they can nab someone like Higuain from one of their major rivals. If Allegri leaves Juventus in the summer I'd bet my house on them continuing to dominate serie a for the foreseeable.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 12:01:06 am by cornelius »

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41463 on: February 10, 2017, 10:39:37 pm »
Weighty reckons Arsene is off in the summer

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41464 on: February 10, 2017, 10:53:01 pm »
It wouldn't surprise me if he was to be fair, you must reach the stage were it all becomes draining in the end.
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Offline MagicHat

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41465 on: February 11, 2017, 09:20:58 am »
I don't listen often to Ian Wright but his concerns on this one seem sound, I can see how draining this year must be for Wenger and that it could be he decides he doesn't want to continue at Arsenal.

Offline The North Bank

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41466 on: February 11, 2017, 09:58:48 am »
Feels different this year, I think he's gone in the summer. Unless we do something different in CL.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41467 on: February 11, 2017, 10:01:57 am »
When he does leave they will buid a statue of him outside the Emirates and proclaim him their greatest ever manager.
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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41468 on: February 11, 2017, 10:15:46 am »
A trophy perhaps? Newcastle run with winning nothing is absolutely ridiculous for a club with such a big fan base in a one club city. If Rafa Benitez won them a trophy he would go down as a mythical legend.

How can someone that exists and is alive be a mythical legend?
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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41469 on: February 11, 2017, 10:26:00 am »
When he does leave they will buid a statue of him outside the Emirates and proclaim him their greatest ever manager.
can have some great Arsenal fan tv videos from there

Offline The North Bank

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41470 on: February 11, 2017, 10:50:19 am »
When he does leave they will buid a statue of him outside the Emirates and proclaim him their greatest ever manager.
And rightly so, because he is.

Offline Cliff Bastin

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41471 on: February 11, 2017, 11:19:01 am »
The vacuum when Wenger leaves will be huge and the patience levels will be similar to those shown by the mancs with Moyes and Van Gaal. If he came in and they weren't immediately in the top 4 everyone down there will immediately shit themselves and the pressure will be intense.Inter was a totally different situation. When Allegri came in to Juventus it wasn't far off something akin to Rodgers going in to Celtic such is the weakness of the main challengers and of course it helps any manager when the club is in such a position of strength they can nab someone like Higuain from one of their major rivals. If Allegri leaves Juventus in the summer I'd bet my house on them continuing to dominate serie a for the foreseeable.
Or we could win the league again and forgetting all about the top 4 mediocrity nonsense. I am excited that we are entering a new phase.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41472 on: February 11, 2017, 12:18:25 pm »
How can someone that exists and is alive be a mythical legend?

Well done on totally missing the point.

Can a myth be a legend?
You're all too fucking serious, the lot of you. Relax, we don't really matter.

Oh, and we should have an in's and out's topic, stickied.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41473 on: February 11, 2017, 01:09:40 pm »
So you can bat the into the net now with your hand , good to know.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41474 on: February 11, 2017, 10:37:29 pm »
They have a tough schedule in remaining games, this may finally be the year they are out of the Top 4

March
Liverpool A (4th March)
Leicester H (11th March)
Westbrom A (18th March)

April
Man City H (1st April)
Westham H (4th April)
Crystal Palace A (8th April)
Middlesbrough A (15th April)
Sunderland H (22th April)
Tottenham A (29th April)

May
Man Utd H (6th May)
Stoke City A (13th May)
Everton H (21st May)

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41475 on: February 11, 2017, 11:04:57 pm »
They have a tough schedule in remaining games, this may finally be the year they are out of the Top 4

March
Liverpool A (4th March)
Leicester H (11th March)
Westbrom A (18th March)

April
Man City H (1st April)
Westham H (4th April)
Crystal Palace A (8th April)
Middlesbrough A (15th April)
Sunderland H (22th April)
Tottenham A (29th April)

May
Man Utd H (6th May)
Stoke City A (13th May)
Everton H (21st May)

Do they not play until March?  :o
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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41476 on: February 11, 2017, 11:20:10 pm »

Waits patiently for arsenal fan TV vids

Gary Neville is bringing in a few of the familiar faces to the Sky Sports studio.

:D

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41477 on: February 12, 2017, 07:26:23 am »
Do they not play until March?  :o

FA Cup next week and then the League Cup final the weekend after. Presumably they were due to play Southampton then, Man City-Man Utd has also been postponed.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41478 on: February 12, 2017, 07:46:44 am »
Allegri is an excellent coach, Arsenal will do just fine with him if they take the interest further.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41479 on: February 12, 2017, 07:54:02 am »
FA Cup next week and then the League Cup final the weekend after. Presumably they were due to play Southampton then, Man City-Man Utd has also been postponed.

Bayern Munich in midweek first... :-[