Topic: Arsenal

[MagicHat]

7th... Fa cup win.

Also, chill out fam.

Sorry, I thought we had won the last two (I blanked out Man U winning it last year ) so meant three in a row. My bad, thought that would be a good way for Wenger to sign off.

North Bank, you have wondered why Wenger is under such pressure. One reason may be that simply, out of contract at end of season and a sense he needed a big season for him to sign a new contract. If he had two years left, the mood would be still frustrated as hell but given the board worship Wenger, no danger of the sack so it would be... well normal. Given his future is on the line and he could leave this summer, I think it has made the frustration worse.

 

[RedSince86]

Liverpool fan on the radio this morning was spot about Arsenal fans will rue the day they force Wenger out,basically called them out as spoilt and ungrateful.

£226 million in cash reserves in a bank,classic Kroenke that.

[ScottishGoon]

Liverpool fan on the radio this morning was spot about Arsenal fans will rue the day they force Wenger out,basically called them out as spoilt and ungrateful.

£226 million in cash reserves in a bank,classic Kroenke that.

You see, there are 2 viewpoints, Wenger In / Wenger Out obviously. But these views aren't exclusive to just Arsenal fans, its split rival fans opinions as well, just read through the last few pages of this thread. Both sides have credible arguments. However, in most Arsenal fans cases, it's not about being spoilt & ungrateful. I think every fan wants him to succeed. However, football should be about progression, & when that isn't happening, & hasn't really happened for years, you have a right to to ask questions. You can't accuse the fan base of not being patient, that's for sure, & the fans are paying a lot of money remember season in season out. Every fan has their tipping point at some point.

I always wanted to give Wenger a chance post 2013, when the revenue started getting upped considerably & we no longer were forced to sell our best players. He deserved this chance again, a chance to build rather then replace. But it just hasn't happened for him. We see the same frailties we've seen since 2004 basically, over a decade now & he can't or won't address them. Or maybe he can't because they stem from him, I don't know.

I love the man, & always back him when I can, but when you are seeing the same things year after year, & you see no signs of improvement, & opposition fans are singing that they want him to stay, because they don't see Arsenal as a big threat, then it just seems with him being out of contract in the summer that it's probably the right time for him to thank him for everything but move on.

[Cliff Bastin]

Liverpool fan on the radio this morning was spot about Arsenal fans will rue the day they force Wenger out,basically called them out as spoilt and ungrateful.

£226 million in cash reserves in a bank,classic Kroenke that.

Well that is bollocks from that fan. Arsenal fans have had patience of a saint with Wenger for years and I literally mean years, a decade in fact. Most other supporters would have hounded him out by now. But the tide has finally turned on him now.

[Cliff Bastin]

Yes, 98, 02, 03 ,05,2014, 2015. not bad is it, for a specialist in failure that never wins anything.

Unbelievable record in the FA cup to be fair. He is a legend, no doubt about that.

[The North Bank]

Liverpool fan on the radio this morning was spot about Arsenal fans will rue the day they force Wenger out,basically called them out as spoilt and ungrateful.

£226 million in cash reserves in a bank,classic Kroenke that.

I'd sooner have Kroenke out than Wenger, but I think Wenger is almost complicit in the owners lack of ambition as he's never put them under pressure to push the boat out.

[tonysleft]

I'd be on the be careful what you wish for side. I don't for a second believe you will finish any higher than you have done in the last 10 years in the 3 years or so after Wenger leaves. It certainly won't be a case of getting Allegri in in summer 2017 and all of a sudden you challenge for the league to the last few matchdays. I understand that you'd take a few more stagnant years in the hope that the new man could eventually mount a title challenge but I agree with North Bank, youse don't have the money to compete with us, Chelsea or City and you probably won't have it for a while. Financially, you are probably performing to par, with a bit of underperformance in Europe.

[Cliff Bastin]

I'd be on the be careful what you wish for side. I don't for a second believe you will finish any higher than you have done in the last 10 years in the 3 years or so after Wenger leaves. It certainly won't be a case of getting Allegri in in summer 2017 and all of a sudden you challenge for the league to the last few matchdays. I understand that you'd take a few more stagnant years in the hope that the new man could eventually mount a title challenge but I agree with North Bank, youse don't have the money to compete with us, Chelsea or City and you probably won't have it for a while. Financially, you are probably performing to par, with a bit of underperformance in Europe.

Compete with you? You are fucking shite and have been for near on 3 years now. We are already better than you.

[tonysleft]

Compete with you? You are fucking shite and have been for near on 3 years now. We are already better than you.

Financially obviously. We're also only 2 points behind you in the table despite being fucking shite

[El Lobo]

I'd say the fact that its been in the background for a good few seasons suggests maybe it is time for him to call it a day. Its not like it suddenly happened this season, if I was an Arsenal fan I'd be calling for a last hurrah and then let him retire with dignity as their greatest ever manager and have that send off accordingly, rather than end up sacking him out of fan pressure. He doesn't deserve to leave under a cloud whatsoever.

[Xabi Gerrard]

I'd be on the be careful what you wish for side. I don't for a second believe you will finish any higher than you have done in the last 10 years in the 3 years or so after Wenger leaves. It certainly won't be a case of getting Allegri in in summer 2017 and all of a sudden you challenge for the league to the last few matchdays. I understand that you'd take a few more stagnant years in the hope that the new man could eventually mount a title challenge but I agree with North Bank, youse don't have the money to compete with us, Chelsea or City and you probably won't have it for a while. Financially, you are probably performing to par, with a bit of underperformance in Europe.

Think of it as 2 options;

Option A:
Guaranteed top 4
Guaranteed never to challenge for the big trophies.

Option B:
Maybe you'll fall out of the top 4
Maybe you'll challenge for the big trophies.

Arsenal fans are perfectly entitled to want Option B now, even though there's risk involved. I know I would after god knows how long of Option A.

[thelinnen]

I can actually see it being a bit like when Moyes left Everton, where Martinez introduced a more attacking style of play but the defense was still solid until the year after. I think they'd hire a more tactically flexible manager who would initially benefit from Wenger's ability to build teams that play good football. After a while that would fade away though.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I can actually see it being a bit like when Moyes left Everton, where Martinez introduced a more attacking style of play but the defense was still solid until the year after. I think they'd hire a more tactically flexible manager who would initially benefit from Wenger's ability to build teams that play good football. After a while that would fade away though.

Yeah, where you get that fortunate crossover period where they still remember the good bits from the last manager but drive away their weaknesses under the new managers reign. Not that it went well after that for Martinez

[child-in-time]

Yeah, where you get that fortunate crossover period where they still remember the good bits from the last manager but drive away their weaknesses under the new managers reign. Not that it went well after that for Martinez

It did. He ended up at a bigger job somehow.

[ElCapo]

Think of it as 2 options;

Option A:
Guaranteed top 4
Guaranteed never to challenge for the big trophies.

Option B:
Maybe you'll fall out of the top 4
Maybe you'll challenge for the big trophies.

Arsenal fans are perfectly entitled to want Option B now, even though there's risk involved. I know I would after god knows how long of Option A.

If I'm Kroenke, I chose option A all day long.  Which is what will happen, unless AW wants to do something else.

Arsenal fans can eff off and moan to Arsenalfantv

[Xabi Gerrard]

I can actually see it being a bit like when Moyes left Everton, where Martinez introduced a more attacking style of play but the defense was still solid until the year after. I think they'd hire a more tactically flexible manager who would initially benefit from Wenger's ability to build teams that play good football. After a while that would fade away though.

Another good example of that would be Wenger himself benefitting from inheriting an amazing defensive unit. That Seaman-Dixon-Adams-Bould-Keown-Winterburn defence meant half the job was done for him when he arrived.

If I'm Kroenke, I chose option A all day long. 

Oh absolutely, Wenger is a wet dream for a shareholder.

[The North Bank]

Another good example of that would be Wenger himself benefitting from inheriting an amazing defensive unit. That Seaman-Dixon-Adams-Bould-Keown-Winterburn defence meant half the job was done for him when he arrived.

Oh absolutely, Wenger is a wet dream for a shareholder.

That amazing defensive unit finished midtable before Wenger came, as you so clearly remember.
His greatest team had none of these players at the back, they were all gone by 2004( apart from the odd Keown appearance).
I'm all for wanting Wenger to go, but what he did in his first 8 years was nothing short of miraculous.

[Xabi Gerrard]

That amazing defensive unit finished midtable before Wenger came, as you so clearly remember.

Well, Arsenal actually finished 5th the season before Wenger joined. I think you're getting confused. They finished 12th before Platt & Bergkamp got lured over by Fizsmann's millions decided to join. Just goes to show how bad that front 6 must have been to finish 12th with a defence like that though, eh?

His greatest team had none of these players at the back, they were all gone by 2004( apart from the odd Keown appearance).
I'm all for wanting Wenger to go, but what he did in his first 8 years was nothing short of miraculous.

What's with this unprovoked outburst?! I just added, non-judgementally, to the conversation about new managers inheriting positive squad traits. And it's a perfectly correct example to use.

U OK, HUN??

[The North Bank]

Well, Arsenal actually finished 5th the season before Wenger joined. I think you're getting confused. They finished 12th before Platt & Bergkamp got lured over by Fizsmann's millions decided to join. Just goes to show how bad that front 6 must have been to finish 12th with a defence like that though, eh?

What's with this unprovoked outburst?! I just added, non-judgementally, to the conversation about new managers inheriting positive squad traits. And it's a perfectly correct example to use.

U OK, HUN??

This rubbish that half Wenger's job was done when he joined. We hadn't won the league for 7 years when he joined, and were playing awful football. Now he's being compared to Martinez and Moyes.

Bad examples.

[Gerry Attrick]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/03/sports/soccer/arsenal-arsene-wenger-analytics.html

I thought this was quite an interesting article from Rory Smith. Though Arsenal haven't been league contenders for a while it does show that Wenger is keeping up with the modern game and still looking to gain an edge.

[Xabi Gerrard]

This rubbish that half Wenger's job was done when he joined. We hadn't won the league for 7 years when he joined, and were playing awful football. Now he's being compared to Martinez and Moyes.

Bad examples.

Calm down mate. Wenger inherited a very good defensive unit. This isn't a controversial or left field opinion. Not sure what your problem is with someone saying this.

[The North Bank]

Calm down mate. Wenger inherited a very good defensive unit. This isn't a controversial or left field opinion. Not sure what your problem is with someone saying this.

Good defensive unit, not half his job done. He added years onto their careers too.

[The North Bank]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/03/sports/soccer/arsenal-arsene-wenger-analytics.html

I thought this was quite an interesting article from Rory Smith. Though Arsenal haven't been league contenders for a while it does show that Wenger is keeping up with the modern game and still looking to gain an edge.

Much good that is doing.

[Gerry Attrick]

Much good that is doing.

I thought it was interesting as I dare say a lot of outsiders perceive Wenger as a bit sterile and behind the times. It's not exactly doing a lot of good for Arsenal but at least he's trying new things to try and get ahead.

[The North Bank]

I thought it was interesting as I dare say a lot of outsiders perceive Wenger as a bit sterile and behind the times. It's not exactly doing a lot of good for Arsenal but at least he's trying new things to try and get ahead.

Its the new things that ruined him. If he stuck to what made him successful he'd have been far better off.

[Gerry Attrick]

Its the new things that ruined him. If he stuck to what made him successful he'd have been far better off.

What do you think he's stopped doing? I guess he recruits a different kind of player these days.

[bird_lfc]

I'm genuinely thankful that Wenger has decided to hang of for so long. Before he took over at Anfield, I had it in my mind that Klopp was replacing Wenger eventually.

[The North Bank]

What do you think he's stopped doing? I guess he recruits a different kind of player these days.

We used to have the biggest side in the league, athletes that are strong, fast and could play football.
At some stage he binned all that and bought these technical midgets. A bad idea in the premier league. Either he got bewitched by barca or he could no longer compete financially for the elite athletes without the scouting advantage he once had.

[Cliff Bastin]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/03/sports/soccer/arsenal-arsene-wenger-analytics.html

I thought this was quite an interesting article from Rory Smith. Though Arsenal haven't been league contenders for a while it does show that Wenger is keeping up with the modern game and still looking to gain an edge.

Complete rubbish that article. It means absolutely nothing. The only thing that matters is what happens on the pitch and what you see with your own eyes. Wenger has been out of date in the modern game for many years now.

[Cliff Bastin]

I'm genuinely thankful that Wenger has decided to hang of for so long. Before he took over at Anfield, I had it in my mind that Klopp was replacing Wenger eventually.

We will have to see how that turns out. Jury still out on that.

[Gerry Attrick]

We used to have the biggest side in the league, athletes that are strong, fast and could play football.
At some stage he binned all that and bought these technical midgets. A bad idea in the premier league. Either he got bewitched by barca or he could no longer compete financially for the elite athletes without the scouting advantage he once had.

Yeah, agree with that actually. You used to have a team packed full of mentally strong winners too.

[Cliff Bastin]

Wenger managed to get a team of Senderos and Flamini at FB to get to a CL final. His peak years.

[The North Bank]

Yeah, agree with that actually. You used to have a team packed full of mentally strong winners too.

Winning breeds a winning mentality.
Losing does the opposite.

[Gerry Attrick]

Winning breeds a winning mentality.
Losing does the opposite.

Quite right. Mentality is the main reason you should be looking to extend Sanchez's contract as soon as possible; he's got that insatiable appetite to win and wants to be the best. He's the heart and soul of your team now; lose him and I think you'd be in massive trouble.

[The North Bank]

Quite right. Mentality is the main reason you should be looking to extend Sanchez's contract as soon as possible; he's got that insatiable appetite to win and wants to be the best. He's the heart and soul of your team now; lose him and I think you'd be in massive trouble.

If I was him I'd seriously look at what else is out there.

[didi]

We used to have the biggest side in the league, athletes that are strong, fast and could play football.
At some stage he binned all that and bought these technical midgets. A bad idea in the premier league. Either he got bewitched by barca or he could no longer compete financially for the elite athletes without the scouting advantage he once had.

Yep he came into the league and sussed it straight away that you need a big strong spine and your half way there just add the gold dust around that spine and you win the league, Mourinho  another who sussed it and Rafa too but just fell short due to circumstances  not worth going over again

[child-in-time]

This rubbish that half Wenger's job was done when he joined. We hadn't won the league for 7 years when he joined, and were playing awful football. Now he's being compared to Martinez and Moyes.

Bad examples.

Looks like awful football wins you trophies because you won 3 from 1991 to 1996.

[The North Bank]

Looks like awful football wins you trophies because you won 3 from 1991 to 1996.

We won 7 trophies from 98 to 2005, including 3 premier leagues, Playing the best football in our history. None of that would've happened without Wenger. We'd be where Liverpool are now, just one year less waiting for a title.
While I don't see us ever winning the league under him again, he's already our greatest ever manager. And the most successful in the premier league era behind Ferguson.

[child-in-time]

We won 7 trophies from 98 to 2005, including 3 premier leagues, Playing the best football in our history. None of that would've happened without Wenger. We'd be where Liverpool are now, just one year less waiting for a title.
While I don't see us ever winning the league under him again, he's already our greatest ever manager. And the most successful in the premier league era behind Ferguson.

And you won 2 in the next 11, making yourselves a name of perennial bottlers. And thats down to him. His previous success shouldnt matter anymore.

No matter how "awful" your football was before Wenger, I would have never thought of calling Arsenal a spineless and characterless team. Thats down to him too.

[The North Bank]

And you won 2 in the next 11, making yourselves a name of perennial bottlers. And thats down to him. His previous success shouldnt matter anymore.

No matter how "awful" your football was before Wenger, I would have never thought of calling Arsenal a spineless and characterless team. Thats down to him too.

3 league titles and 6 fa cups will never not matter. Its the only thing that matters. No other manager since the 30s got us that. That doesn't mean he should stay, but Liverpool revere far less successful managers than him. The vitriol he gets is embarrassing, when he goes and we carry on winning nothing. Then the owners will have no one to hide behind.