Topic: Jordan Henderson*

[Sangria]

The one thing that always grated with me was the notion that he was somehow a 'talismanic' presence in midfield.

Maybe I have a different definition of that word.

No measurable effects beyond the merely psychological?

[Nitramdorf]

Fuck me, have just read Rodgers defending him. Saying "there are so many morality officers around the world now judging people" and

“It’s definitely something that makes players wobble because of the money that’s talked about and what it can do for players and the legacy it can create for their families for years down the line,” Rodgers added.

and

“What makes (Saudi Arabia) dangerous is not only the money, they have a plan. The plan is attracting top players and looking to get top managers out there.”

 How the fuck can someone say that and use the word dangerous while poor souls are being killed.

Fuck off Rodgers and Henderson and all of our ex players out there.

[johnathank]

Always came across as a Kuyt-like figure to me. A try-hard manager-favourite who was lauded by many for his perspiration and contribution (mostly on the shoulders of others) that often made up for his lack of quality, and who went out of their way to ingratiate themselves with fans, whilst having an over-inflated sense of their own qualities and worth. If he wasn't made captain, he'd have been eased out of the first team long ago.

That said, there's no snide to him, just it's clear he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, and I imagine Gerrard was very much a deciding influence on him going there.

This is harsh on Kuyt, unless there are things I don’t know.

[johnathank]

Henderson doesn’t seem to have understood that his longevity and captaincy was more down to being seen saying and doing the right things as a figurehead for the club. I truly believe the Saudis are getting a sick little thrill by showing they can make anyone bend the knee to them. It’s all disgusting.

[rob1966]

Henderson took a lot of stick on the football side of things during his time here. People will continue to hold strong opinions on his ability, and I do think this debacle has given some free rein to assert that they always thought he was shit.

You're wrong. Because in order for you to be right, Klopp has to be wrong, and we've won all those trophies carrying a player.

I'll accept legitimate criticism over Henderson's limitations as a footballer, and he clearly should never have had his contract extended. But let's not use the fact he is a poor human being as an excuse to claim he was ever a bad footballer.

It's remarkable that people who disliked his footballing ability so intensely seem to have watched him so closely. Personally, I never bothered. I think one the whole, generally speaking, by the law of averages, Henderson had more good games for us than bad. Certainly over the majority of his career under Jurgen.

  (except the bolded bit)

I'm in the camp of those that believe his red card did cost us the league in 2014, I think the Chelsea game would have turned out differently.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

In 12yrs there are very few games that he grabbed hold of and turned in our favour. I cannot think of any but there's bound to be a couple.

[Boston always unofficial]

Not to arsed about Henderson the football player anymore.Horrible human being,working for an abhorrent regime.

[Red Beret]

Fuck me, have just read Rodgers defending him. Saying "there are so many morality officers around the world now judging people" and

“It’s definitely something that makes players wobble because of the money that’s talked about and what it can do for players and the legacy it can create for their families for years down the line,” Rodgers added.

and

“What makes (Saudi Arabia) dangerous is not only the money, they have a plan. The plan is attracting top players and looking to get top managers out there.”

 How the fuck can someone say that and use the word dangerous while poor souls are being killed.

Fuck off Rodgers and Henderson and all of our ex players out there.

The same Rodgers who tried to bin Henderson off in favour of Dempsy?

[Mister Flip Flop]

Some utter tripe in here.

Was Henderson a great player for us, yes undoubtedly.

Is he an utter ballbag now given what's transpired, yes undoubtedly.

Trying to pretend now he wasn't the player he was in childish nonsense.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Fuck me, have just read Rodgers defending him. Saying "there are so many morality officers around the world now judging people" and

“It’s definitely something that makes players wobble because of the money that’s talked about and what it can do for players and the legacy it can create for their families for years down the line,” Rodgers added.

and

“What makes (Saudi Arabia) dangerous is not only the money, they have a plan. The plan is attracting top players and looking to get top managers out there.”

 How the fuck can someone say that and use the word dangerous while poor souls are being killed.

Fuck off Rodgers and Henderson and all of our ex players out there.

No gay players allowed though. Great plan that Brendan.

[Oskar]

He’s a scumbag.

Good riddance to bad rubbish. He’s not the person he claimed to be and portrayed himself as; his morals and principals, if he ever actually had any, went to the highest bidder and he’s been reduced to this pathetic, desperate shell of empty platitudes and sportswashing cliches.

In an ideal world, he’ll never be welcomed back to the club in any capacity and allowed to fade into obscurity. That interview is horrific, he’s an embarrassment and I’m thrilled we’re shot of him.

[End Product]

Brendan looking for the newcastle job or his beautiful fantastic  pension in Saudi.

[jillcwhomever]

Some utter tripe in here.

Was Henderson a great player for us, yes undoubtedly.

Is he an utter ballbag now given what's transpired, yes undoubtedly.

Trying to pretend now he wasn't the player he was in childish nonsense.

Agree with this don't understand the rewriting of history. I mean are those people going to treat the other players who have gone there same way? Does it mean we no longer think joyfully about Istanbul because of Gerrard's role in that game? By all means we should be highlighting the hypocrisy of Henderson's former commitment but it shouldn't alter what any of them have actually done in the shirt. You can't rewrite the past, we need to look to the future instead.

[Yorkykopite]

Henderson took a lot of stick on the football side of things during his time here. People will continue to hold strong opinions on his ability, and I do think this debacle has given some free rein to assert that they always thought he was shit.

You're wrong. Because in order for you to be right, Klopp has to be wrong, and we've won all those trophies carrying a player.

I'll accept legitimate criticism over Henderson's limitations as a footballer, and he clearly should never have had his contract extended.

I love your conclusion. You think Klopp was, after all, wrong! And "clearly wrong" to boot.

Very mixed up!

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I love your conclusion. You think Klopp was, after all, wrong! And "clearly wrong" to boot.

Very mixed up!

He was obviously wrong about him, Hendo managed to con us all into believing that he was a man of morals and honesty.

[Red Beret]

I love your conclusion. You think Klopp was, after all, wrong! And "clearly wrong" to boot.

Very mixed up!

Firstly - that's not my conclusion, so don't try to selectively quote me.

Second - we all know Jurgen's greatest weakness is that he can be overly loyal to players. If that's his biggest fault, then there are managers out there who do a lot worse.

So, not mixed up at all. That period 2015-2020 under Jurgen, Henderson was the dog's bollocks.

  (except the bolded bit)

I'm in the camp of those that believe his red card did cost us the league in 2014, I think the Chelsea game would have turned out differently.

Not sure why you disagree about why Henderson shouldn't have had his contract extended, Rob? I was gutted to lose him, but he was never going to accept a reduced role. And, based on last season, in hindsight we probably would have been better letting him go. Yeah, we got some money for him, but we might have made fourth spot with a different player out there last season. It's all water under the bridge now though.

I do agree about 2014 though. The minute that red came out, I knew we'd lost the title. Gerrard was, once again, expected to drag the team over the line the last few games, and he just wasn't physically up to it, anymore. Rather like Henderson last year!

[Yorkykopite]

Firstly - that's not my conclusion, so don't try to selectively quote me.

Second - we all know Jurgen's greatest weakness is that he can be overly loyal to players. If that's his biggest fault, then there are managers out there who do a lot worse.

I'm not selectively quoting from you. I simply quoted your last post to show how mixed up you were.

Now I'm going to paraphrase that quote, but not in a way that does it any injustice.

You believe that Henderson's critics must be wrong because Klopp kept picking him. You also believe Klopp was "clearly wrong" for extending Henderson's contract. That is indeed "very mixed up". Klopp is infallible when it suits your argument and "clearly wrong" when it doesn't.

In pure footballing terms I am mightily relieved that Henderson is not available for selection this year. (I suspect Jurgen might be too, reading between the lines of Hendo's interview).

[Mighty_Red]

In 12yrs there are very few games that he grabbed hold of and turned in our favour. I cannot think of any but there's bound to be a couple.

His influence on games was far more subtle. Just because Gerrard could be superhuman things doesn't mean Hendo or anyone else could. Only an idiot would claim that Hendo was anywhere near the level of Gerrard.

He was a great player in his own right however, with his own qualities including being able to lead the team, and motivate the others to do the special things many are expecting him to have done. You always need a manager on the pitch who can deliver Jurgen's message.

Yes, he had limitations but we all know what they are. Now his legs are going he can't use his engine to cover some of those weaknesses.  All we've discovered that he is just incredibly professional and nothing really means as much to him as he makes out.

He was always out for no1 I guess, the rest was just spin and good PR

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I never claimed that though. At his best he was a steady eddy & out of our previous squad, he was/would've been the easiest to replace.

[Red Beret]

I'm not selectively quoting from you. I simply quoted your last post to show how mixed up you were.

Now I'm going to paraphrase that quote, but not in a way that does it any injustice.

You believe that Henderson's critics must be wrong because Klopp kept picking him. You also believe Klopp was "clearly wrong" for extending Henderson's contract. That is indeed "very mixed up". Klopp is infallible when it suits your argument and "clearly wrong" when it doesn't.

In pure footballing terms I am mightily relieved that Henderson is not available for selection this year. (I suspect Jurgen might be too, reading between the lines of Hendo's interview).

You chopped the end off the quote. You basically ended the quote where it suited YOUR need to do so.

I reiterate, it is not mixed up, because - once again - Klopp's only real flaw is loyalty.

Trying to imply from what I said that I am somehow being selective over Jurgen's fallibility is disingenious. That's all I will say on that matter. Feel free to think what you like.

[Yorkykopite]

You chopped the end off the quote. You basically ended the quote where it suited YOUR need to do so.

I reiterate, it is not mixed up, because - once again - Klopp's only real flaw is loyalty.

Trying to imply from what I said that I am somehow being selective over Jurgen's fallibility is disingenious. That's all I will say on that matter. Feel free to think what you like.

In that case we are agreed. I think Henderson played more than he deserved to because Klopp was too loyal. You think he was given a fat contract also because Klopp was too loyal. Either way, Hendo, a decent but (for Liverpool) a sub-standard player was over-rewarded because Jurgen was a wee bit too soft.

[Keith Lard]

Brendan looking for the newcastle job or his beautiful fantastic  pension in Saudi.

Exactly what I thought.

Brendan puts our dislike of the Saudi regime down to us being “morality police”.

[rossipersempre]

Brendan looking for the newcastle job or his beautiful fantastic  pension in Saudi.

Quite, fairly blatant. But then morals and Brendan Rodgers have always had a very loose affiliation, both professionally and personally. Always has his eye on the next rung on the monkey ladder, just surprised Celtic took him back.

[buttersstotch]

I think the hardest part in this is Henderson saying he didn't go there for the money. Would we be bothered if he said he did? Probably, but we'd expect it.

I do think some of the criticism is harsh though - yes, as an ally he should be accountable, but we shouln't be harder on one player just because they spoke out more than others. Now, there is some cynicism that he did a lot of the gestures for PR. While undoubtedly I do think some of this is true, I do think underneath it all he has a good heart.

He does not come across well in the interview though, like others he got in to the shape of his life before pre-season, knowing he needed to improve. We came off one of the worst patches of form I can remember and as much as I loved Henderson, to be automatically assuming you'd be starting every game at 33 is bonkers. He dropped off last season, everyone could see that, but there was still a role for him in this team. Now what actually happened at the end of June/start of July between Klopp and Henderson..? Who knows. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle - Klopp wanted him to stay, but he would not be first choice anymore. I'd feel at that stage you can rise to the challenge or throw the towel in.

I probably don't have the same level of hate that some of you have, but undoubtedly I think this has tarnished is legacy here. That being said we got rid of player whose had their best days at our club and got a transfer fee. But if we compare Milner and Henderson with each other now, the former is a bonafied legend, whereas the latter has left a huge sour taste in many mouths, and not sure he can claw that back with the fanbase.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Exactly what I thought.

Brendan puts our dislike of the Saudi regime down to us being “morality police”.

A rather odd and (presumably) inadvertently ironic turn of phrase, given that the only places that tend to have "morality police" are oppressive fundamentalist states like Iran and erm, I don't know, Saudi Arabia? Perhaps Brendan was making some terribly clever point (he is grounded in the political school of Whataboutism)... But I'd guess that he's a man who could very easily see himself doing a couple of years managing a tyrant's plaything over there when he's bored of Celtic, now that the truly big jobs in the PL are highly unlikely to come his way.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

He's also one of the last blokes that should be mentioning morals.

[Red Beret]

In that case we are agreed. I think Henderson played more than he deserved to because Klopp was too loyal. You think he was given a fat contract also because Klopp was too loyal. Either way, Hendo, a decent but (for Liverpool) a sub-standard player was over-rewarded because Jurgen was a wee bit too soft.

Fair comment, Yorky.

I think at the time we felt Henderson was a vital anchor point that allowed the players around him to shine. Perhaps after years of unsettled, unbalanced teams and multiple managers, we just craved some stability.

Now we see the difference between having a player who allows those around him to shine, and having a player who can also shine for themselves.

[slotmachine]

I never claimed that though. At his best he was a steady eddy & out of our previous squad, he was/would've been the easiest to replace.

At his best he was a steady eddy. Fuck me the shite on this thread about Henderson's ability as a player. He was footballer of the year in the title season that ended 30 years without the title. He was unbelievable that season and when Fabinho got injured in the early December of that season he slotted back in at 6 and was superb in that role for the next 2 months. There was only VVD and Mane who you could argue were maybe better than Hendo that season.

He also was pivotal in the winning of the world club cup that season when he slotted in at centre half in the semi final and was outstanding and then went back in at 6 in the final and was superb again and provided the pass for Bobby in extra time to win the trophy.

He had a great Liverpool career and was an outstanding captain and leader. He run the dressing room along with Milner and was an extension of the manager on the pitch. He was really driven and demanding of his teamates and kept them all on their toes. You could really hear this during the Covid season's with no crowds and the way he would help and encourage people through the matches and also give them a kick up the arse at times.

That interview is a disgrace and he deserves criticism for that but fucking hell he was a key player in the best and most dominant Liverpool team i have ever seen. Reading the thread you would think he had no footballing ability and just run around a bit.

[DiggerJohn]

I think the hardest part in this is Henderson saying he didn't go there for the money. Would we be bothered if he said he did? Probably, but we'd expect it.

I do think some of the criticism is harsh though - yes, as an ally he should be accountable, but we shouln't be harder on one player just because they spoke out more than others. Now, there is some cynicism that he did a lot of the gestures for PR. While undoubtedly I do think some of this is true, I do think underneath it all he has a good heart.

He does not come across well in the interview though, like others he got in to the shape of his life before pre-season, knowing he needed to improve. We came off one of the worst patches of form I can remember and as much as I loved Henderson, to be automatically assuming you'd be starting every game at 33 is bonkers. He dropped off last season, everyone could see that, but there was still a role for him in this team. Now what actually happened at the end of June/start of July between Klopp and Henderson..? Who knows. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle - Klopp wanted him to stay, but he would not be first choice anymore. I'd feel at that stage you can rise to the challenge or throw the towel in.

I probably don't have the same level of hate that some of you have, but undoubtedly I think this has tarnished is legacy here. That being said we got rid of player whose had their best days at our club and got a transfer fee. But if we compare Milner and Henderson with each other now, the former is a bonafied legend, whereas the latter has left a huge sour taste in many mouths, and not sure he can claw that back with the fanbase.

Thats a good point about Milner, played right back, left back, 10 min sub, trained hard, never to proud. Great example

[WhereAngelsPlay]

At his best he was a steady eddy.

And I stand by it. 

A dependable and reasonably skilled person who can be trusted to do a job adequately

Better than Mo that season 

Better than Ali that season 

[Fromola]

Always really liked Henderson until recently - I am pissed off with that interview.

Always thought Rodgers was a complete phoney gobshite - no change there then. Stick to backing up your bezzie Malky Mackay, Brenton.

[coolbyrne]

Henderson took a lot of stick on the football side of things during his time here. People will continue to hold strong opinions on his ability, and I do think this debacle has given some free rein to assert that they always thought he was shit.

You're wrong. Because in order for you to be right, Klopp has to be wrong, and we've won all those trophies carrying a player.

I'll accept legitimate criticism over Henderson's limitations as a footballer, and he clearly should never have had his contract extended. But let's not use the fact he is a poor human being as an excuse to claim he was ever a bad footballer.

It's remarkable that people who disliked his footballing ability so intensely seem to have watched him so closely. Personally, I never bothered. I think one the whole, generally speaking, by the law of averages, Henderson had more good games for us than bad. Certainly over the majority of his career under Jurgen.

You don't win everything there is to win in football with a team of 10 carrying the captain. No way. Was he world class? No. But was he an important component to us winning the league? Absolutely. You'll not convince me that he was a mediocre player when we were at our best, no matter how much of a shit stain I think he is now.

[DangerScouse]

Always came across as a Kuyt-like figure to me. A try-hard manager-favourite who was lauded by many for his perspiration and contribution (mostly on the shoulders of others) that often made up for his lack of quality, and who went out of their way to ingratiate themselves with fans, whilst having an over-inflated sense of their own qualities and worth. If he wasn't made captain, he'd have been eased out of the first team long ago.

That said, there's no snide to him, just it's clear he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, and I imagine Gerrard was very much a deciding influence on him going there.

Harsh on poor Dirk, Rossi!

[WhereAngelsPlay]

You don't win everything there is to win in football with a team of 10 carrying the captain. No way. Was he world class? No. But was he an important component to us winning the league? Absolutely. You'll not convince me that he was a mediocre player when we were at our best, no matter how much of a shit stain I think he is now.

I don't disagree with that but I do disagree about a team of 10 being able to carry lesser players to a title, there are examples of that throughout history.

And saying that somebody was a steady Eddy isn't a massive insult, calling him mediocre would be but try naming something other than being a leader that he excelled at.

[rossipersempre]

I don't disagree with that but I do disagree about a team of 10 being able to carry lesser players to a title, there are examples of that throughout history.

And saying that somebody was a steady Eddy isn't a massive insult, calling him mediocre would be but try naming something other than being a leader that he excelled at.

Playing Devil’s advocate with myself, I could say he did have an occasional sideline in the defence-splitting pass/assist. But that’s about it really in the “excell” purely footballing category.

[rossipersempre]

Harsh on poor Dirk, Rossi!

Not really, but many were blind to it.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Playing Devil’s advocate with myself, I could say he did have an occasional sideline in the defence-splitting pass/assist. But that’s about it really in the “excell” purely footballing category.

Like you say, it was occasional, he could do most things but lets not kid ourselves that he lead the way in any of them.

I'd be saying the same if he'd signed for Wrexham,

[coolbyrne]

I don't disagree with that but I do disagree about a team of 10 being able to carry lesser players to a title, there are examples of that throughout history.

And saying that somebody was a steady Eddy isn't a massive insult, calling him mediocre would be but try naming something other than being a leader that he excelled at.

Carrying the captain of Liverpool? Or maybe we're getting into the discussion of whether or not he should've been captain, which is a different topic.

Sometimes 'being a leader' encompasses abilities that make him important to the overall structure and success of the team. Maybe the younger players looked up to him as a leader, and through that leadership role, they became steadier, better players. Maybe the younger players felt he stood up for them (the Bruno Fernandes/Trent incident comes to mind). I don't know. I'm not them. But I do know he's not going to be Liverpool captain if he didn't show the quality.

Again, was he world class? No. But the idea that the rest of the team carried him during our biggest successes is more than debatable.

[Son of Spion]

Exactly what I thought.

Brendan puts our dislike of the Saudi regime down to us being “morality police”.

Rodgers would appear to be yet another brainless ignoramus.

"Morality Police" eh, Brendan. You've clearly overlooked the fact that the first modern morality Police unit (The Muṭawwaʿūn)  was set up in 1926 by, yes, you've guessed it ... Saudi Arabia.

[Black Bull Nova]

Rodgers would appear to be yet another brainless ignoramus.

"Morality Police" eh, Brendan. You've clearly overlooked the fact that the first modern morality Police unit (The Muṭawwaʿūn)  was set up in 1926 by, yes, you've guessed it ... Saudi Arabia.

Brendan always struck me as a man whose views did not extend much past his own self interest. Only when his self interest aligns with yours is he regarded well. I don't think any set of fans that he has worked for views him fondly and probably see him solely as a professional football manager and nothing more. He is always better when the subject is football and not concepts like 'morality' or 'loyalty'