Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
538 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 739

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1001485 times)

Offline Yosser0_0

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19760 on: March 29, 2019, 11:36:06 PM »
If you are saying that they would not be naturally idealogical supporters of Brexit, I'd agree. However, I'm not sure that their support for Brexit was just down to the attitudes of thier respective friends and foes.My instinct is that a big factor was that in the event, albeit unlikely at the time, of a Brexit outcome to the referendum, they really didn't want to take the chance of been in a position where they and the overwhelming majority oh NI ( which it would have been if the DUP had opposed it) were against it.

Refusal to accept special treatment for Ni, which at the very least would optically challenge the concept of the Union, would be difficult to brazen out in the event that they had led opposition to Brexit in the first place.

Bit confused here, I thought most of NI voted remain, which is understandable? The £1bn bribe for the DUP to back the Tory's was always a bit dubious and founded on what? Then when the Tory's fucked them over with the backstop, whatever so called partnership they had was over.
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Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19761 on: March 29, 2019, 11:37:41 PM »
Next Tigger/ChangeUK-er?

Would last all but the few weeks until we have a general election then he would be voted out.

The DUP are pondering apparently which option to go for on Monday. Would imagine they follow the SNP.

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19762 on: March 29, 2019, 11:39:22 PM »
Next Tigger/ChangeUK-er?

Nothing left to lose now?
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Offline coolbyrne

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19763 on: March 29, 2019, 11:40:56 PM »
I apologize in advance if the answers seem obvious, but I'm having a hard time following all this. Without getting into the Party/politician discussion (which confuses me quite a bit as a Canadian), I just have a few basic questions:

-So people voted to leave the EU, but the politicians in charge had no real plan if that happened? I mean, this talk of "soft" and "hard" Brexit seems to indicate that even the Leavers couldn't agree.

-Now they're voting on a bunch of different options, including a 2nd referendum? And none of those passed a majority vote, so nothing was accomplished?

-What ultimately happens if, come April 12th, no agreement is made? Can the EU just say, "Enough. Goodbye."?
Oh, these sour times.

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Online Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19764 on: March 29, 2019, 11:43:17 PM »
Next Tigger/ChangeUK-er?

Underlining their point whatever he chooses to do. There's only 8 of them left on the Tory backbenches.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Online Yorkykopite

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19765 on: March 29, 2019, 11:45:02 PM »
https://twitter.com/journobill/status/1111730538153476096


This is great for the Remainers. The raw racist, anti-semitic hatred of the Brexit janissaries. These are the Brexit shock troops and the nation is watching.

Normally the effect of seeing such thugs would be spoilt by a load of equally vile Trotskyist counter-demonstrators. But this time, oh happy land, the Trots and the Fascists are on the same side.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Online Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19766 on: March 29, 2019, 11:46:28 PM »
-What ultimately happens if, come April 12th, no agreement is made? Can the EU just say, "Enough. Goodbye."?

Unless there's agreement to stop Brexit altogether then, yeah, the EU are in charge and we have to meet their demands. If no agreement is found in Parliament before the 12th April then we leave the EU with only whatever provisions they're willing to grant unilaterally. They have already stated that the minimum requirement to open further talks if that happens will be agreeing to what is in front of us now.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Online Red Berry

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19767 on: March 29, 2019, 11:50:09 PM »
I apologize in advance if the answers seem obvious, but I'm having a hard time following all this. Without getting into the Party/politician discussion (which confuses me quite a bit as a Canadian), I just have a few basic questions:

-So people voted to leave the EU, but the politicians in charge had no real plan if that happened? I mean, this talk of "soft" and "hard" Brexit seems to indicate that even the Leavers couldn't agree.

-Now they're voting on a bunch of different options, including a 2nd referendum? And none of those passed a majority vote, so nothing was accomplished?

-What ultimately happens if, come April 12th, no agreement is made? Can the EU just say, "Enough. Goodbye."?

Yes to all three questions.  Welcome to British politics.
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Online Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19768 on: March 29, 2019, 11:56:14 PM »
One point which has stuck with me from close to the beginning was by one of the wonks on EU policy. She said that we're treating this like a negotiation between equals but the EU are treating it as an accession process in reverse. "You must do X by Y date in order to begin talks about Z".
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline lamad

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19769 on: March 29, 2019, 11:56:25 PM »
To be honest that's no big deal and people spoffing BS is what debating, politics and democracy is all about. Don't you think the Spanish and Italians can moan equally as well, if not more? In a way that is the remarkable thing about the EU, in that they have managed to somehow unite countries with such different values and cultures. It will be a shame to leave the EU.  :'(
Well, in the last few day, after all the voting shenanigans in the HoC, there were voices from politicians in Brussels whose opinions went along the lines of "it would be utterly ludicrous to have UK MEPs in the next EU parliament", because a) the British want out and b) we don't need more f**kwits like Farage.
But you are absolutely right of course; the threshold for political pain and endurance is high in Brussels - it is a prerequisite to making work this whole system of getting so many different countries to agree on common principles as well as the complicated minutiae of trade stuff and whatnot. For decades the British were at the forefront of making the EU's life difficult - although recently one EU politician here said that at the end of the day the British mostly used to be very pragmatic - but they were/are far from the only ones. These days the EU deals with various anti EU factions, from the Italian crazies to Hungarian and Polish nutters (although none of them are mad enough to propose leaving the bloc). So there surely is a lot of head banging and probably some anger in Brussels, but of course they would prefer to keep the UK. At least keep them for now instead of having a no deal Brexit.
 
Same as many on here I would suspect many in Brussels hope that the longer any extension the less likely a Brexit might become, or at least the opportunity to make it as soft as possible will arise. Never give up hope until it is over, I guess. Last November I bought theatre tickets for a play in London at the end of April, wondering what the Brexit situation would be like by that time (admittedly I did not imagine *this* situation now), and last week I got a ticket for a concert at the Hall in November... hoping to still travel to a EU Britain. Most people here don't want you to leave and we don't want to leave you behind.  :'(

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19770 on: March 29, 2019, 11:59:27 PM »
I apologize in advance if the answers seem obvious, but I'm having a hard time following all this. Without getting into the Party/politician discussion (which confuses me quite a bit as a Canadian), I just have a few basic questions:

-So people voted to leave the EU, but the politicians in charge had no real plan if that happened? I mean, this talk of "soft" and "hard" Brexit seems to indicate that even the Leavers couldn't agree.

-Now they're voting on a bunch of different options, including a 2nd referendum? And none of those passed a majority vote, so nothing was accomplished?

-What ultimately happens if, come April 12th, no agreement is made? Can the EU just say, "Enough. Goodbye."?
There was no plan and never will be because a successful Brexit is impossible to deliver.
How can you have a plan to deliver the impossible.
Ray Bradshaw.

Stanley Johnson not wearing a mask is nowhere near as bad as Stanley Johnson not wearing a condom in 1963.

Offline Hellrazor

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19771 on: March 30, 2019, 12:00:14 AM »
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline ShakaHislop

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Offline TheShanklyGates

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19773 on: March 30, 2019, 12:05:20 AM »
After a brief moment of relief coupled with a dollop of schadenfreude earlier today when May's deal went down my mind turned to what happens next. I just can't get my head around this indicative votes process any more and what the Remainers in parliament are hoping to achieve by backing anything other than a second referendum or revoking article 50 on Monday. Literally any of the 'soft Brexit' options require the withdrawal agreement to be passed first because the EU have made it perfectly clear that they consider things like customs union, single market membership etc. as separate - matters for the political declaration on the future relationship and not for the legal process of the UK leaving.

The problem here though is obvious. The political declaration is non binding on either party. Even in the event that the Commons agree a majority for a customs union, which seems the most likely outcome from Wednesday's first round, there is absolutely nothing that guarantees it actually happens. Even if you then get May to agree to actually implement it, which is unlikely given that her first priority is keeping the Tory party together and if a softer Brexit ever became government policy it would cause a split, and then manage to agree it with the EU it's still just warm words and aspirations. The second the withdrawal agreement is passed we are out of the EU and completely at the mercy of the internal politics of the Tory party. May has already said she's gone as soon it passes - a political declaration modified by the May government becomes even more useless when we have different nutter in Number 10. What the fuck is the point in voting for a softer Brexit option when even it gets a majority you're still effectively voting for a 'blind Brexit'?

I've pretty much resigned myself to a referendum not happening and remain being dead because of the utter fucking morons on all sides of the house. Maybe that's just my eternal pessimism about this whole sorry state of affairs clouding my thinking but I honestly can't see a route to it getting a commons majority. Maybe I'm wrong and after May's deal being rejected yet again there will be a few more Tories who reconsider their votes on Monday. But I think that even if it did by some miracle manage to scrape a majority I'm convinced that May would ignore it and resign or call an election instead in order to try and kill it, something the leader of the 'opposition' would be only too happy to go along with.

Even now, on what was originally supposed to be 'Brexit day', we still have a Prime Minister who refuses to accept that she doesn't have the support to force her abomination through. You've got utter dickheads, including my MP, who are still voting for us to crash out with no deal. You've got MPs needing lessons on what a customs union is 3 fucking years after that god damned referendum. Even now you've still got gormless cretins like Richard Burgon grinning like a Cheshire cat as he continues to argue that a soft Brexit is possible without approving the withdrawal agreement and without holding EU elections. https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/status/1111672950829314050

I feel so angry and helpless right now. Brexit has broken this country.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline Riquende

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19774 on: March 30, 2019, 12:08:15 AM »
This is great for the Remainers. The raw racist, anti-semitic hatred of the Brexit janissaries.

Janissaries? Do they have spoons tucked into their headbands? Honestly...

Also, Janissaries were forcibly converted to Islam. Let's not open that can of worms.

London's streets tonight have been a precursor to Brexit Britain. The worst of us, free to unleash their bile.



An actual human being has taken valuable time out of their life to create that sign. Time that could have been spent laughing with children, or picking daisies, or taking cyanide. Any one of a number of more pleasant things.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 12:11:20 AM by Riquende »
Oh it comes to Divock Origi... he's won the European Cup for Liverpool! The man who cut down Barcelona has taken Tottenham down in Madrid! And it's dreamland worrying times for Liverpool Football Club. Shame really.

Online Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19775 on: March 30, 2019, 12:12:22 AM »
^isn't that the defrocked priest who kept getting arrested for trying to disrupt sporting events?
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Riquende

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19776 on: March 30, 2019, 12:18:36 AM »
A thought just struck me. Pro-Trump evangelicals and apparently now pro-Brexit.. um... twats... are very quick to invoke the support of the almighty in their utterings, but apparently the 21st century Christ/God axis is no longer bothering with the humble woodworker schtick and is sending messages these days exclusively through philandering billionaires and racist investment bankers.

That seems fairly off-message for Jesus, it has to be said.
Oh it comes to Divock Origi... he's won the European Cup for Liverpool! The man who cut down Barcelona has taken Tottenham down in Madrid! And it's dreamland worrying times for Liverpool Football Club. Shame really.

Offline Not that Gareth

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19777 on: March 30, 2019, 12:21:21 AM »
Janissaries? Do they have spoons tucked into their headbands? Honestly...

Also, Janissaries were forcibly converted to Islam. Let's not open that can of worms.

London's streets tonight have been a precursor to Brexit Britain. The worst of us, free to unleash their bile.



An actual human being has taken valuable time out of their life to create that sign. Time that could have been spent laughing with children, or picking daisies, or taking cyanide. Any one of a number of more pleasant things.
That is one conflicted image! He appears to be part paddys day parade, part Jewish,  part trans and part evangelical

Offline lamad

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19778 on: March 30, 2019, 12:21:41 AM »
...Brexit has broken this country.
Some British vox pop on German tv earlier today, before the vote, and a guy said the usual 'we voted for Brexit, we need to get this done'. And then he says, we need to get this done because then we can all come together again and the country will be whole again. And I was thinking, no honey, that's not how this works. He sounded so naive and clueless... Regardless of how this will end, your country and its people will stay torn apart for many years, in a really not good way. Makes me sad.

Offline coolbyrne

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19779 on: March 30, 2019, 12:23:14 AM »
Unless there's agreement to stop Brexit altogether then, yeah, the EU are in charge and we have to meet their demands. If no agreement is found in Parliament before the 12th April then we leave the EU with only whatever provisions they're willing to grant unilaterally. They have already stated that the minimum requirement to open further talks if that happens will be agreeing to what is in front of us now.

Thanks to those who answered. Wow. I'm just... this is just the most fucked up useless thing ever. (says Captain Obvious)
Oh, these sour times.

No one admires resilience when you were just plain wrong all along - that's just twattishness.

If I ever see you in person I'm going to knock you th

Offline TheShanklyGates

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19780 on: March 30, 2019, 12:23:40 AM »
Some British vox pop on German tv earlier today, before the vote, and a guy said the usual 'we voted for Brexit, we need to get this done'. And then he says, we need to get this done because then we can all come together again and the country will be whole again. And I was thinking, no honey, that's not how this works. He sounded so naive and clueless... Regardless of how this will end, your country and its people will stay torn apart for many years, in a really not good way. Makes me sad.

Yep. I'm effectively going to be disenfranchised for the rest of my life unless Brexit is stopped. I'm not voting for any party that enabled it and in our two party system that rules out any chance of my vote ever counting.

I remember back to the summer of 2012 when we held the Olympics and how proud I felt of my country. It wasn't perfect, sure, but I felt that at a fundamental level Britain was a largely open, decent, tolerant, welcoming nation. There were divisions as there are in any society, political and otherwise, but I never had the feeling they were irreconcilable. Brexit shattered that illusion for me. It's all so desperately sad.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 12:32:28 AM by TheShanklyGates »
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline Skeeve

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19781 on: March 30, 2019, 12:28:57 AM »
Goes back to my point earlier, can you trust the electorate now? Its a huge risk, I never thought the Tory's would loose their majority in the last GE, it was completely unpredictable.

If they didn't see sense then at least we get the car crash out of the way in one go, you just know once we vote for any kind of brexit, it will just drag things on for years as each subsequent tory government will look to chip away at it even more, while simultaneously blaming the EU for all the problems this brexit idiocy has caused.


Offline drmick

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19782 on: March 30, 2019, 12:39:52 AM »
To be honest, before all this stuff started the whole Europe thing would have been of no importance at all to the DUP. It's not like the rights and wrongs of the Single Market got any mileage in their conferences and manifestos.

I think the DUP supported Brexit cos (a) their fellow travelers at the reactionary end of the Tory party supported it and (b) the Shinners and Dublin opposed it.
Make no mistake, if SF had supported Brexit, the DUP would have been Remainers.

Now I think they might be desperate for all this nonsense to end and get back to their normal version of bigotry and intransigence and most people on The Mainland ignoring them. Cos they now know that May's likely successors like Johnson and Rees-Mogg would sell them out in a nanosecond if it meant getting into no. 10.

I've said this here before I think, but nothing practical about the implications of Brexit would work out well for the DUP. Sure, there may have been a slight right-wing, conservative values allegiance. But to this day, I am convinced that massive amounts of monies were put through DUP accounts to take an official Brexit stance.

The DUP have proved that they only need a few months to mobilise their electorate. So if they commit a major faux pas, as long as it is more than 6 months before an election they will be ok.

Offline Mag Hull

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19783 on: March 30, 2019, 12:42:38 AM »
I apologize in advance if the answers seem obvious, but I'm having a hard time following all this. Without getting into the Party/politician discussion (which confuses me quite a bit as a Canadian), I just have a few basic questions:

-So people voted to leave the EU, but the politicians in charge had no real plan if that happened? I mean, this talk of "soft" and "hard" Brexit seems to indicate that even the Leavers couldn't agree.

-Now they're voting on a bunch of different options, including a 2nd referendum? And none of those passed a majority vote, so nothing was accomplished?

-What ultimately happens if, come April 12th, no agreement is made? Can the EU just say, "Enough. Goodbye."?

Coolbyrne - here goes  :-\

Decent overview:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/16/brexit-paranoid-fantasy-fintan-otoole

The background to Brexit has always been the problem with reconciling one nation Tories with the EU, which has ultimately been the graveyard of every Tory Leader. Cameron’s vanity project was to offer a referendum on membership of the EU to countermand this and due to the fallout from 2008 and his Austerity project, gave the floor to right wing extremists who with their usual smoke and mirrors, made this about immigration and focussed on the disenfranchised to exploit a protest vote.

With Eton related hubris he assumed the deal was in the bag until it wasn’t, and then did a swerve worthy of Pontius Pilate by resigning. Fallout was that no plans were in place, with the vote itself being a simple Yes or No meaning the nuances of our relationship with Europe were massively understated. Gobshites on the right immediately swept in to interpret the sanctified “will of the people” and have subsequently caused May to play Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun, in terms of the red lines n general intransigence.

Despite the fact that exiting the EU will have a catastrophic fallout, May has put the unity of the Conservatives above all which is why her vote has been rejected because yer can’t fool all of the people all of the time. The EU do not want the UK to leave in the knowledge that this realisation/demographic changes mean that a new referendum would probably (ref Ipsos Mori) lead to remain.

What you’ve got now is a situation where politicians are finally cottoning onto the real impact and indeed Realpolitik, and are looking to soften Brexit completely; the indicative votes suggest the way forward lies somewhere between a soft Brexit and/or a new referendum based upon existing options identified. Today’s vote make this more rather than less likely as Parliament has overwhelmingly voted to take no deal off the table.

Errr that’s it (I think)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 02:00:13 AM by Mag Hull »
Get your fucking hedge cut!!!!

Offline drmick

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19784 on: March 30, 2019, 12:59:53 AM »
Next Tigger/ChangeUK-er?

Surely the beginning of the end of the Conservative Party?

Offline thejbs

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19785 on: March 30, 2019, 01:12:24 AM »
A thought just struck me. Pro-Trump evangelicals and apparently now pro-Brexit.. um... twats... are very quick to invoke the support of the almighty in their utterings, but apparently the 21st century Christ/God axis is no longer bothering with the humble woodworker schtick and is sending messages these days exclusively through philandering billionaires and racist investment bankers.

That seems fairly off-message for Jesus, it has to be said.

It’s almost like there is no Jesus or god and people are just being dicks. 🤔

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19786 on: March 30, 2019, 01:22:36 AM »
Surely the beginning of the end of the Conservative Party?
Brexit could have been the opportunity to wipe out the Tories for many years to come. Brexit could have been turned into a positive, it could have exposed the Tories for what they are,  we had a group of MPs who were willing to put their safety and careers fighting to protect the people of this country to do just that, this new party may well be wiped out at the next election and some will cheer, they will be cheering MPs who put their safety and careers on the line trying to protect them from Tory exploitation loosing their seats.  the people of this country claim they want change for the good and I believe them, it will never happen until they understand who their friends and enemies really are.
Ray Bradshaw.

Stanley Johnson not wearing a mask is nowhere near as bad as Stanley Johnson not wearing a condom in 1963.

Offline Mag Hull

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19787 on: March 30, 2019, 01:40:34 AM »
Brexit could have been the opportunity to wipe out the Tories for many years to come. Brexit could have been turned into a positive, it could have exposed the Tories for what they are,  we had a group of MPs who were willing to put their safety and careers fighting to protect the people of this country to do just that, this new party may well be wiped out at the next election and some will cheer, they will be cheering MPs who put their safety and careers on the line trying to protect them from Tory exploitation loosing their seats.  the people of this country claim they want change for the good and I believe them, it will never happen until they understand who their friends and enemies really are.

If only we had a Labour Leader who would have seized that opportunity- Momentum have done as much damage as the Tories which is why I despise them
Get your fucking hedge cut!!!!

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19788 on: March 30, 2019, 01:42:55 AM »
Janissaries? Do they have spoons tucked into their headbands? Honestly...

Also, Janissaries were forcibly converted to Islam. Let's not open that can of worms.

London's streets tonight have been a precursor to Brexit Britain. The worst of us, free to unleash their bile.



An actual human being has taken valuable time out of their life to create that sign. Time that could have been spent laughing with children, or picking daisies, or taking cyanide. Any one of a number of more pleasant things.

On his days off he makes scruffy A4 banners for Chelsea fans and those "can I have your shirt please" signs for spoilt brats

Offline lamad

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19789 on: March 30, 2019, 01:44:53 AM »
And in typical RAWK fashion, I'd like to ask what's YOUR opinion on this?

Because as a RAWKite, your personal view is valued far more than a media opinion, its what sets us apart from other forums. (Be prepared to be shouted down if its outrageous!).
Okay, so how do I put this? I am not British, but since approx. age 16 have been in love with all things (well, most, lol) British. I am an anglophile, I love your language, your history (good and bad), your culture - you guys. I lived and worked in London for a while back in the late 90s. I always figured in my retirement years I would spend a lot of time on the English and Scottish coasts and with exploring all the parts of the country I haven't seen yet (and that's a lot although I have been around a bit).

So apart from Remain being the logical thing (looking at economy, rights etc.) I am deeply invested in this from a personal point of view (I wrote some longer rants on here shortly after the referendum). My heart is bleeding when I see the state Britain and its people are in. At the same time I feel a bit like a lover spurned... wherever I went in the UK I was always welcomed with open arms and so much friendliness and warmth. Even with Britain always having been more Euro sceptic than other countries, I thought that the positives of what the EU represents had gotten a certain hold in British society. But then Brexit happened and it's like... the British saying, hey you Europeans, we don't want to be aligned with you anymore. We don't value what you try to do and so we don't want to be with you fullstop. I try to rationalise and of course it is not "the British". Many hold a different view, but it still hurts (may sound strange, I know).

For the past three years I have been torn between varying degrees of depression, anger and hope. Being depressed at the utter stupidity of it all, trying to accept that there will be a Brexit at one point. Mad at the way this is being handled and the Leave camp still chasing unicorns and selling it to those gullible enough. A few weeks ago I had reached a point of 'oh you lot, just leave with a no deal then, it might be the only way some learn of the effects'. But that option will hurt so so many people, especially those who already struggle, that I cannot really stick with it. So then hope kicked in (again), that by some miracle enough decision makers would see sense and stop the whole thing. Mainly by now I am hoping for a longer extension and that at the end Brexit will simply be cancelled (or it will be very very soft).

All this time I am thinking, while I may sometimes be conflicted about my feelings regarding the best way forward, I am on the outside - at the end of the day my view is rather insignificant. How must all of you feel, who have to directly deal with this every day, in your lives, with friends, family, mates, and in regards to your future.

Some of the EU people I know who have lived in the UK for many years have packed their bags: One couple, both German, with a pre-school kid, he used to work for London Transport, she worked at a bank. They are now back in Frankfurt, she already has a new job, he is a stay at home dad for now, but as an engineer will surely find work. Another couple, she is German and a professor at Oxford, he is English and in the last few years worked for a brewery (he said that there are a lot of non-British working there and he can see that industry is doomed in parts). They have two kids, dogs, a farm with horses. A few weeks ago she got a job offer in the South of Germany and she took it and they have now moved there. Both of these families would have loved to stay in the UK and surely would have done so without Brexit, but there is so much uncertainty that they grabbed these opportunities and left. Of course this is a privilege only EU citizens have and maybe those with Irish family background or similar. Most of you will have to live through it all, come what may.

So this whole thing makes me feel ragey and sad and helpless and I am Remain Remain Remain. I don't want you to leave and I never thought that this mess is where Britain and the EU would end up in the year 2016 and after...

Sorry for this rant, you can shout me down now if you like.  :wave

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19790 on: March 30, 2019, 01:57:28 AM »
Okay, so how do I put this? I am not British, but since approx. age 16 have been in love with all things (well, most, lol) British. I am an anglophile, I love your language, your history (good and bad), your culture - you guys. I lived and worked in London for a while back in the late 90s. I always figured in my retirement years I would spend a lot of time on the English and Scottish coasts and with exploring all the parts of the country I haven't seen yet (and that's a lot although I have been around a bit).

So apart from Remain being the logical thing (looking at economy, rights etc.) I am deeply invested in this from a personal point of view (I wrote some longer rants on here shortly after the referendum). My heart is bleeding when I see the state Britain and its people are in. At the same time I feel a bit like a lover spurned... wherever I went in the UK I was always welcomed with open arms and so much friendliness and warmth. Even with Britain always having been more Euro sceptic than other countries, I thought that the positives of what the EU represents had gotten a certain hold in British society. But then Brexit happened and it's like... the British saying, hey you Europeans, we don't want to be aligned with you anymore. We don't value what you try to do and so we don't want to be with you fullstop. I try to rationalise and of course it is not "the British". Many hold a different view, but it still hurts (may sound strange, I know).

For the past three years I have been torn between varying degrees of depression, anger and hope. Being depressed at the utter stupidity of it all, trying to accept that there will be a Brexit at one point. Mad at the way this is being handled and the Leave camp still chasing unicorns and selling it to those gullible enough. A few weeks ago I had reached a point of 'oh you lot, just leave with a no deal then, it might be the only way some learn of the effects'. But that option will hurt so so many people, especially those who already struggle, that I cannot really stick with it. So then hope kicked in (again), that by some miracle enough decision makers would see sense and stop the whole thing. Mainly by now I am hoping for a longer extension and that at the end Brexit will simply be cancelled (or it will be very very soft).

All this time I am thinking, while I may sometimes be conflicted about my feelings regarding the best way forward, I am on the outside - at the end of the day my view is rather insignificant. How must all of you feel, who have to directly deal with this every day, in your lives, with friends, family, mates, and in regards to your future.

Some of the EU people I know who have lived in the UK for many years have packed their bags: One couple, both German, with a pre-school kid, he used to work for London Transport, she worked at a bank. They are now back in Frankfurt, she already has a new job, he is a stay at home dad for now, but as an engineer will surely find work. Another couple, she is German and a professor at Oxford, he is English and in the last few years worked for a brewery (he said that there are a lot of non-British working there and he can see that industry is doomed in parts). They have two kids, dogs, a farm with horses. A few weeks ago she got a job offer in the South of Germany and she took it and they have now moved there. Both of these families would have loved to stay in the UK and surely would have done so without Brexit, but there is so much uncertainty that they grabbed these opportunities and left. Of course this is a privilege only EU citizens have and maybe those with Irish family background or similar. Most of you will have to live through it all, come what may.

So this whole thing makes me feel ragey and sad and helpless and I am Remain Remain Remain. I don't want you to leave and I never thought that this mess is where Britain and the EU would end up in the year 2016 and after...

Sorry for this rant, you can shout me down now if you like.  :wave

Fuck off.
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect.

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19791 on: March 30, 2019, 01:58:11 AM »
Fuck off.
That was a joke by the way.
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect.

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19792 on: March 30, 2019, 02:09:31 AM »
If only we had a Labour Leader who would have seized that opportunity- Momentum have done as much damage as the Tories which is why I despise them
The Labour members were offered a choice of leaders.
The had to choose between a leader who promised to fight to expose the Tory Brexit lies, he argued we should not accept Brexit if it brings economic disaster. his argument never won over all those momentum supporters, they supported the candidate who argued we must respect the result of the referendum.
Ray Bradshaw.

Stanley Johnson not wearing a mask is nowhere near as bad as Stanley Johnson not wearing a condom in 1963.

Offline lamad

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19793 on: March 30, 2019, 02:17:31 AM »
That was a joke by the way.
Haha you almost had me for a teeny tiny second there, when I saw the two word reply before seeing who posted it.  ;D

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19794 on: March 30, 2019, 02:19:03 AM »
Grieve will have a long successful career as an MP, probably as an independent. Sadly I can't see the tiggers/chUKkas lasting 5 minutes.

May is totally deluded. No one admires resilience when you were just plain wrong all along - that's just twattishness.

A long extension to A50 is best. By that time the baby will have forgotten why it was having a tantrum.

Some right twats at parliament today, one of them tried to pick a fight with me in the tube station - all I was doing was sitting down reading a book, but he was just so fired up with his own self-importance.

Did I mention May has lost it.

It's like one of those dreams where you are walking around bollock naked. No nation should be voluntarily doing this to itself.

Just caught up on the last few pages and a few whiskies, and forgot half of what I wanted to say.
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19795 on: March 30, 2019, 02:25:32 AM »
Grieve will have a long successful career as an MP, probably as an independent. Sadly I can't see the tiggers/chUKkas lasting 5 minutes.

May is totally deluded. No one admires resilience when you were just plain wrong all along - that's just twattishness.

A long extension to A50 is best. By that time the baby will have forgotten why it was having a tantrum.

Some right twats at parliament today, one of them tried to pick a fight with me in the tube station - all I was doing was sitting down reading a book, but he was just so fired up with his own self-importance.

Did I mention May has lost it.

It's like one of those dreams where you are walking around bollock naked. No nation should be voluntarily doing this to itself.

Just caught up on the last few pages and a few whiskies, and forgot half of what I wanted to say.
:) Sums up the state of the country right now.
Ray Bradshaw.

Stanley Johnson not wearing a mask is nowhere near as bad as Stanley Johnson not wearing a condom in 1963.

Offline lamad

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19796 on: March 30, 2019, 02:28:09 AM »
... Just caught up on the last few pages and a few whiskies, and forgot half of what I wanted to say.
And still you make more sense than most MPs and Leave voters when stone cold sober.

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19797 on: March 30, 2019, 02:32:41 AM »
And still you make more sense than most MPs and Leave voters when stone cold sober.
And that previous post (the long one) was brilliant and I'm sure will resonate with everyone on here - even if that last one was bollocks.
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect.

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19798 on: March 30, 2019, 03:10:33 AM »
Oh I've just seen that Francois on the telly going on about how his  dad won the war and how he is made of the same stuff and will repel the EU foe. FUCK OFF you charlatan pipsqueak, basking in the reflected glory of genuine heroes. If your antecedents could see the EU, and how it has prevented you being in the situation where you saw your brethren having their guts blown out and limbs blown off, they wouldn't be backing you, you pointless, pernicious, self-serving useless cretin.
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect.

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Re: Brexit thread - Just cancel it dickheads.
« Reply #19799 on: March 30, 2019, 03:31:25 AM »
Okay, so how do I put this? I am not British, but since approx. age 16 have been in love with all things (well, most, lol) British. I am an anglophile, I love your language, your history (good and bad), your culture - you guys. I lived and worked in London for a while back in the late 90s. I always figured in my retirement years I would spend a lot of time on the English and Scottish coasts and with exploring all the parts of the country I haven't seen yet (and that's a lot although I have been around a bit).

So apart from Remain being the logical thing (looking at economy, rights etc.) I am deeply invested in this from a personal point of view (I wrote some longer rants on here shortly after the referendum). My heart is bleeding when I see the state Britain and its people are in. At the same time I feel a bit like a lover spurned... wherever I went in the UK I was always welcomed with open arms and so much friendliness and warmth. Even with Britain always having been more Euro sceptic than other countries, I thought that the positives of what the EU represents had gotten a certain hold in British society. But then Brexit happened and it's like... the British saying, hey you Europeans, we don't want to be aligned with you anymore. We don't value what you try to do and so we don't want to be with you fullstop. I try to rationalise and of course it is not "the British". Many hold a different view, but it still hurts (may sound strange, I know).

For the past three years I have been torn between varying degrees of depression, anger and hope. Being depressed at the utter stupidity of it all, trying to accept that there will be a Brexit at one point. Mad at the way this is being handled and the Leave camp still chasing unicorns and selling it to those gullible enough. A few weeks ago I had reached a point of 'oh you lot, just leave with a no deal then, it might be the only way some learn of the effects'. But that option will hurt so so many people, especially those who already struggle, that I cannot really stick with it. So then hope kicked in (again), that by some miracle enough decision makers would see sense and stop the whole thing. Mainly by now I am hoping for a longer extension and that at the end Brexit will simply be cancelled (or it will be very very soft).

All this time I am thinking, while I may sometimes be conflicted about my feelings regarding the best way forward, I am on the outside - at the end of the day my view is rather insignificant. How must all of you feel, who have to directly deal with this every day, in your lives, with friends, family, mates, and in regards to your future.

Some of the EU people I know who have lived in the UK for many years have packed their bags: One couple, both German, with a pre-school kid, he used to work for London Transport, she worked at a bank. They are now back in Frankfurt, she already has a new job, he is a stay at home dad for now, but as an engineer will surely find work. Another couple, she is German and a professor at Oxford, he is English and in the last few years worked for a brewery (he said that there are a lot of non-British working there and he can see that industry is doomed in parts). They have two kids, dogs, a farm with horses. A few weeks ago she got a job offer in the South of Germany and she took it and they have now moved there. Both of these families would have loved to stay in the UK and surely would have done so without Brexit, but there is so much uncertainty that they grabbed these opportunities and left. Of course this is a privilege only EU citizens have and maybe those with Irish family background or similar. Most of you will have to live through it all, come what may.

So this whole thing makes me feel ragey and sad and helpless and I am Remain Remain Remain. I don't want you to leave and I never thought that this mess is where Britain and the EU would end up in the year 2016 and after...

Sorry for this rant, you can shout me down now if you like.  :wave
Fantastic post, from the heart and definitely resonates. We love you, too. You and the rest of Europe. We belong together.

I'm one of the unlucky ones who has no Irish or European ancestary to call upon. If we leave, I'm stuck here with the fucking morons and c*nts, all of them resplendant and triumphant. I'm a well known Remainer and Europhile in my area so I will get it bad from them. They'll be likes dogs with two dicks around me.
“Giving absolutely everything doesn't mean you get anything... but it’s the only chance to get something!”

"So that is where you'll find me; in the dust and the desolation, the gaps and the ghost towns. The eerie empty places and lost turns of the world"