Topic: Jordan Henderson*

[rossipersempre]

Down the years we've had players who weren't the best in their position, but whatever they brought to the team was enough for them to keep their place. Henderson did whatever Jurgen required of him, both as a player and as a captain, otherwise he would have been moved on.

"Doing enough to keep their place". It's such a sad indictment and exactly how you go from being English, European and World Champions to failing to even make the Champions League just 3 years' later.

[Black Bull Nova]

For what it’s worth Jill, I have always thought that Stevie was a bit of twat, but a twat that was in plain sight. Since he did that Chelsea thing he’s always come across a bit morally dubious to me, so him going to Saudi to me is no surprise. It’s always been about Stevie.

 Fowler though hurts a bit, because he was my hero but at least he’s never had proclamations of being some sort of ally. And as hypocritical as it is , I reckon Fowler just wanted a job and tried to get jobs everywhere but no one was willing to give him a crack. Still wish he didn’t though.

You'd have to ask Graeme Le Saux about Robbie's stance on homophobia

[paulrazor]

Surprised by the amount of (ex)-love for Henderson as a player. I always thought we could do better, and silently groaned when yet another of our attacks broke down after he demanded the ball, only to do nothing with it. For a player with vision, like Bobby, Thiago  or Trent, it must have been frustrating.  But I thought that he must bring something to the team that I just couldn't see, as multiple managers were happy to let him play.

He wouldnt have stuck around as captain and been in our 11 if he was as bad as some would have you believe.

This is a guy who was captain of one of our greatest teams ever

[Black Bull Nova]

A lot of footballers would be working for minimum wage if it wasn't for their footballing abilities. But football is a short career. Rightly or wrongly, football also brings them status.

Maybe it's insecurity. Maybe imposter syndrome. The validation and the money need to keep rolling in and perceived status needs to remain.

It's pretty clear that the mid life crisis that occurs for footballers is around the ages 31-35. I remember Neil Webb (England, & Forest) was a postman and delivery driver when he packed in football, that's probably as should be for a fit young man who haver really 'worked'. These days bang average footballers are all lottery winners and (aside from football, golf and investment) have 50+ years to pass without having to worry about money. Allied to that time they have, as above, lost their status. When they go to the supermarket and kids don't recognise them it may well be a relief but the fact they have gone from having songs sung to them by 40,000 people to being just another punter is a real come down.


It happens to rejected apprentices as well as retiring footballers but then it probably happens to everyone at some point. At least the PL footballers who retire don't have to worry about the gas bill.

[Yorkykopite]

And against the Mancs, Kuyt shoved Suarez out of the way, plonking down the final chord with his knuckles, taking the plaudits. All three movements of that concerto as well.

 

[Yorkykopite]

He wouldnt have stuck around as captain and been in our 11 if he was as bad as some would have you believe.

This is a guy who was captain of one of our greatest teams ever

You can see the double-edge to that last comment though, right?

[DiggerJohn]

Some good posts in here. Interesting reading about the psyche of professional players especially as it starts to slip away from them

[paulrazor]

You can see the double-edge to that last comment though, right?

if you mean this bit "This is a guy who was captain of one of our greatest teams ever" yes

Look, it was a lousy move

[John C]

He was technically way better than Kuyt ever was. And he had the engine of Kuyt, and better vision than Kuyt.

Yep, sorry yorky but I agree with this completely. I think comparing Henderson on his best day to Kuyt on his is doing a disservice to Henderson.
I also think he offered a significant amount to our campaign during those times when we really did need the trophies to be delivered. And we know there could have been 2 more.

It's such a pity he didn't make it his mission to find elite young footballers from the North East of England rather than pretend to be interested in developing a league in Saudi, which he probably couldn't point to on a map two months ago.

[Yorkykopite]

Yep, sorry yorky but I agree with this completely. I think comparing Henderson on his best day to Kuyt on his is doing a disservice to Henderson.

Did I do that John? I mentioned Kuyt, certainly, but I don't think I equated their respective skills or vision. I was responding to a post that defended Henderson (the footballer) by saying he "bust a gut" for the team. My answer to that is 'so what?' That was how Kuyt used to be defended too. But it's the bare minimum for any player I'd have thought.

I also think Hendo was a better player than Dirk for what it's worth. But that doesn't take us very far!

[paulrazor]

Did I do that John? I mentioned Kuyt, certainly, but I don't think I equated their respective skills or vision. I was responding to a post that defended Henderson (the footballer) by saying he "bust a gut" for the team. My answer to that is 'so what?' That was how Kuyt used to be defended too. But it's the bare minimum for any player I'd have thought.

I also think Hendo was a better player than Dirk for what it's worth. But that doesn't take us very far!

yep

Don't like quoting him but in the words of Roy Keane "well that is your job, do you want a pat on the back"

[No666]

And against the Mancs, Kuyt shoved Suarez out of the way, plonking down the final chord with his knuckles, taking the plaudits. All three movements of that concerto as well.

[rob1966]

"Doing enough to keep their place". It's such a sad indictment and exactly how you go from being English, European and World Champions to failing to even make the Champions League just 3 years' later.

I was thinking more of the likes of Sammy Lee and the incarnation of Henderson wasn't the current one, I'm talking about the one that won the League Cup, FA Cup, Champions League, Premier League, Super Cup and Club World Cup.

The current incarnation would have been a bit part player, lending leadership and experience and leading by example. Did you see the Inside Training video where the players were on first day back? He was more cut than Mo - he'd battered the fitness regime during the summer

[Libertine]

The "secure kids' future" is just something they tell themselves to sleep at night, to justify it as some sort of selflessness, when that goal has already been achieved.

And even if true, I can't think of worse parenting. We'll give you enough money so you never have to work, develop a career or give anything back to society. Just spend, spend, spend. And try to forget that your dad sold his soul to pay for it all.

[Sangria]

And against the Mancs, Kuyt shoved Suarez out of the way, plonking down the final chord with his knuckles, taking the plaudits. All three movements of that concerto as well.

Those three rings of the triangle gave me much joy, I'd have you know.

[Sangria]

He wouldnt have stuck around as captain and been in our 11 if he was as bad as some would have you believe.

This is a guy who was captain of one of our greatest teams ever

I think it's the other way round. He wouldn't have been in the team so much if he hadn't been captain.

[Knight]

We'd have won the league if he hadn't been banned in 2014. He was exactly what the team needed. And he was brilliant at times under Klopp. But my goodness was he bad at times in his last 2 seasons at the club, and yes I'm including the 'almost quadruple' season. His physical decline and tactical naivety (up 2-0 against Brighton before drawing 2-2 in 21/22 springs to mind) cost us. He wasn't in the team on merit for ages before he eventually retired from top level football. I hope that Klopp's loyalty to players is tempered a little by this episode. If, for example, VVD ever declines to the point that someone else would be better off starting instead of him I'd hope that VVD's status at the club and past performances wouldn't keep him in the team like it did with Henderson.

[markmywords]

Modern western society or perhaps just football doesn't produce typical old school leaders

So someone with those traits like hendo, which a certain amount of technique and bags of energy is gonna get elevated to levels he wouldn't have 20 yrs ago. I'm not convinced he gets in GED's treble team


Still a fine player and arguably the best english  midfielder of his generation (if you define a generation by 5/6 yrs)   The man is still in the England squad despite how he played for us recently and where he is playing now.

But this episode might makes you look at him a bit differently.  It was argued he turned down fulham to "knuckle down and prove his worth and people wrong, it might be he turned down regular 1st team footy, as Liverpool largely paid more, and was at least short term prepared to stay on the bench with more cash.  I prefer to remember the good times and his hard work provided plenty of good times

[jepovic]

We'd have won the league if he hadn't been banned in 2014. He was exactly what the team needed. And he was brilliant at times under Klopp. But my goodness was he bad at times in his last 2 seasons at the club, and yes I'm including the 'almost quadruple' season. His physical decline and tactical naivety (up 2-0 against Brighton before drawing 2-2 in 21/22 springs to mind) cost us. He wasn't in the team on merit for ages before he eventually retired from top level football. I hope that Klopp's loyalty to players is tempered a little by this episode. If, for example, VVD ever declines to the point that someone else would be better off starting instead of him I'd hope that VVD's status at the club and past performances wouldn't keep him in the team like it did with Henderson.

Klopps loyalty made us 20M on Henderson.
The saudis might completely change the valuation of older players

[Black Bull Nova]

And even if true, I can't think of worse parenting. We'll give you enough money so you never have to work, develop a career or give anything back to society. Just spend, spend, spend. And try to forget that your dad sold his soul to pay for it all.

Would be nice to hear, occasionally, player has not accepted the generous offer from Saudi because he does not wish to disrupt his child's education and tear them away from their friends and extended family

[John C]

Did I do that John? I mentioned Kuyt, certainly, but I don't think I equated their respective skills or vision. I was responding to a post that defended Henderson (the footballer) by saying he "bust a gut" for the team. My answer to that is 'so what?' That was how Kuyt used to be defended too. But it's the bare minimum for any player I'd have thought.

I also think Hendo was a better player than Dirk for what it's worth. But that doesn't take us very far!

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth or anything mate, I was just keen to make sure we agree Kuyt was nothing like Hendo 

[Sangria]

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth or anything mate, I was just keen to make sure we agree Kuyt was nothing like Hendo 

Kuyt had a brain that Henderson never had. Henderson had the technique to do what he wanted much of the time, but what he wanted was often not what was most effective. Kuyt knew what to do, but didn't have the technique much of the time to pull it off in tight situations. Both had an engine. I'd give it to Henderson due to his greater pace, but Kuyt never lost his engine with us, whereas Henderson definitely did.

[Yorkykopite]

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth or anything mate, I was just keen to make sure we agree Kuyt was nothing like Hendo 

I'm not offended John! Kuyt often had real problems trapping the ball. It would bounce off his shin to a nearby opponent more times than I care to remember. Hendo sometimes takes two goes at the thing but he generally does get the ball to settle eventually.

(Just for comparison, Thiago generally has the ball under control even before it arrives - and sometimes before the ball has left his teammate's foot).

[paulrazor]

Kuyt's 4th touch was amazing to be fair

[rob1966]

I think it's the other way round. He wouldn't have been in the team so much if he hadn't been captain.

That's an insult to Klopp saying that

[WhereAngelsPlay]

That's an insult to Klopp saying that

Do you think that the Boss sent him out week after week with instructions to slow our play down ?

People seem to be forgetting how frustrating it was watching him pass sideways and backwards 90% of the time.

[rob1966]

Do you think that the Boss sent him out week after week with instructions to slow our play down ?

People seem to be forgetting how frustrating it was watching him pass sideways and backwards 90% of the time.

You could see Klopp was moving him out, 11 sub appearances last season shows this and the new signings were going to replace him, but if he was shitter than shit, Jurgen would have fucked him off totally.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

You could see Klopp was moving him out, 11 sub appearances last season shows this and the new signings were going to replace him, but if he was shitter than shit, Jurgen would have fucked him off totally.

Nobody has said that though Rob & we're constantly told that you can't shift a player unless they want to go.

[rossipersempre]

Kuyt's 4th touch was amazing to be fair

And that was on his day. Usually, his second was a tackle.

[rossipersempre]

In contrast, it's been an eye-opener to read that another recent multi-CL-winning captain well into his mid 30s turned down a massive offer (20m euros a year or 400k a week) from Saudi Pro League which would have seen him reunite with an old team-mate.

And instead go back to his boyhood club for less than 20k a week, explaining he's not motivated by money (ignoring his last employer of 2 years), that instead he had a 'debt' to his father and grandfather, and that he made decisions with his heart.

Who is this bastion of morals making Henderson look like a c*nt? Why, that little scamp Sergio Ramos.

[DiggerJohn]

Actually it is quite commom with the south american footballers Maradona went back to Boca Juniors, Luis Suarez National, Juan Veron. Our own Lucas Leiva Germio and Maxi Rodriguez newell old boys.  I always liked that its like paying back respect to your first club. 

[rossipersempre]

Actually it is quite commom with the south american footballers Maradona went back to Boca Juniors, Luis Suarez National, Juan Veron. Our own Lucas Leiva Germio and Maxi Rodriguez newell old boys.  I always liked that its like paying back respect to your first club. 

Ramos is Spanish, but your point remains. Many feel a duty (or nostalgia) to return to where it all started.

[Fromola]

You could see Klopp was moving him out, 11 sub appearances last season shows this and the new signings were going to replace him, but if he was shitter than shit, Jurgen would have fucked him off totally.

He's 33. The idea he could start every week in the engine room was fanciful at best. It's not like he's a Thiago who could play a slower game, his game was based on energy and his legs were going pretty much since his 2021 injury.

But when Milner's legs were going at a similar age, Klopp adapted around it and gave him plenty of game time, covering injuries/different positions etc, just not as the first name on the sheet. The idea that Henderson was being frozen out and only going to play 10 minutes a match (his own narrative) is wrong. Okay he may have been getting more 20-30 minute appearances in the Prem and starting the cup and Europa games, but that's managed minutes, not being frozen out.

We went through this with Gerrard and Carragher who couldn't countenance the fact that they weren't going to play 90 minutes every match, no matter how much their legs had gone. Milner had the humility to accept it, Henderson is another who couldn't. Although apparently for England he can.

[DiggerJohn]

Ramos is Spanish, but your point remains. Many feel a duty (or nostalgia) to return to where it all started.

I know Ramos is Spanish, it just reminded me the South Americans do it quite often. Probably a lot to do with family and friends still live in the area.  Interesting to see where Thiago goes next summer Im hoping Celta Vigo, seems like a clever bloke to me.  Henderson appears quite thick.

[rossipersempre]

Henderson appears quite thick.

His interview a classic example of the adage "it's far better to stay silent and appear stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

[DiggerJohn]

true, and I will get you up to 20,000 soon to join the big boys 

[jepovic]

Actually it is quite commom with the south american footballers Maradona went back to Boca Juniors, Luis Suarez National, Juan Veron. Our own Lucas Leiva Germio and Maxi Rodriguez newell old boys.  I always liked that its like paying back respect to your first club.

Dont forget Danielo Aggerino

[DiggerJohn]

Dirktino kuytayla

[hide5seek]

Still a blood money footballer?

[n00bert]

You'd have to ask Graeme Le Saux about Robbie's stance on homophobia

Fair dos, I had completely forgotten about that. Did he eventually apologise?