Author Topic: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.  (Read 27937 times)

Offline owens_2k

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #200 on: June 21, 2023, 05:34:10 pm »
This may already have been answered previously but I don't understand why there is so much uncertainty about the subs location. Surely they must have known its location at the point they lost contact with it and you could make some accurate predictions about it's subsequent location from that? Lots of people saying 'it may be caught up in the wreckage' - surely they would have known if it was already at the wreckage site before losing contact?
From what I've seen, the sub would send texts to the 'mothership' for directions the wreck.

Also another expert was saying even the slightest of scratches or bumps at those pressure can compromise the integrity of the vessel and cause an implosion.

I read that there are 5 failsafe measures intended to bring it back to the surface which includes the ballasts being dropped and a balloon which inflates.

If its not on the surface then its very likely it suffered catastrophic damage.

Eerily fascinating about any footage filmed by those on board. I did not think about that

Offline jonnypb

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #201 on: June 21, 2023, 05:51:45 pm »
Do we know if this vessel has done this before ?

Apparently this was its third dive to the titanic, the other 2 were 2021 and 2022. On its website it had 18 more dives planned to the titanic.

Are there other companies doing these titanic viewings? Just curious.

Yep! Not sure if people can pay to go on them, or if they’re research dives. James Cameron, the Hollywood director, has made dozens of deep sea dives, many to the titanic. His deepest was to the Mariana Trench which is about 7 miles down  :o
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 05:55:54 pm by jonnypb »

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #202 on: June 21, 2023, 05:58:07 pm »
A friend and colleague of the pilot thinks water has entered and the sub has imploded, given the sudden loss of contact.


And I learned today that Americans pronounce bouys as "boo-ees" not "boys".  ;D
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 06:01:09 pm by Peabee »
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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #203 on: June 21, 2023, 06:03:30 pm »
Apparently this was its third dive to the titanic, the other 2 were 2021 and 2022. On its website it had 18 more dives planned to the titanic.

Yep! Not sure if people can pay to go on them, or if they’re research dives. James Cameron, the Hollywood director, has made dozens of deep sea dives, many to the titanic. His deepest was to the Mariana Trench which is about 7 miles down  :o

Just reading about that Mariana Tench, if you put Mount Everest at the deepest level of the Mariana Tench [an area known as Challenger Deep] Mount Everest would still be underwater by 1.2 miles. :o
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #204 on: June 21, 2023, 06:06:12 pm »
I hope this puts an end to "Titanic Tourism", if nothing else.

If the sub imploded, it's debris would be almost indistinguishable from Titanic's wreckage without a visual inspection. The higher up it imploded, the more dispersed the wreckage would be :(
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #205 on: June 21, 2023, 06:08:34 pm »

Yep! Not sure if people can pay to go on them, or if they’re research dives. James Cameron, the Hollywood director, has made dozens of deep sea dives, many to the titanic. His deepest was to the Mariana Trench which is about 7 miles down  :o

I think Cameron has a legit interest/fascination with the deep ocean. I don't think he goes down just to gawk - he probably helps raise publicity and funding for organisations doing scientific research. I could be wrong though.
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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #206 on: June 21, 2023, 06:08:49 pm »
A friend and colleague of the pilot thinks water has entered and the sub has imploded, given the sudden loss of contact.

How does the science around that work? So if a little bit of water gets in does it mean the pressure gets in and crushes them?

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #207 on: June 21, 2023, 06:11:31 pm »
How does the science around that work? So if a little bit of water gets in does it mean the pressure gets in and crushes them?

Best guess is a leak could lead to a catastrophic failure of the pressure vessel. All I have to go on is that scene in Raise the Titanic and The Abyss though.
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Offline Peabee

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #208 on: June 21, 2023, 06:12:18 pm »
How does the science around that work? So if a little bit of water gets in does it mean the pressure gets in and crushes them?

Yeah, water entering means it's been breached. The pressure down there is immense, so it would be extremely quick, pretty much instant, at least.
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Offline jonnypb

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #209 on: June 21, 2023, 06:19:40 pm »
I think Cameron has a legit interest/fascination with the deep ocean. I don't think he goes down just to gawk - he probably helps raise publicity and funding for organisations doing scientific research. I could be wrong though.

Yeah he’s got a fascination for it and does a lot of scientific and deep ocean research.

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #210 on: June 21, 2023, 06:22:26 pm »
How does the science around that work? So if a little bit of water gets in does it mean the pressure gets in and crushes them?

Fill a bottle of water to the brim. Screw on the top, then squeeze the sides. Notice it buckles. Now, poke a hole in the one side and squeeze again, water rushes out. Same theory except the water is on the outside and the air in on the inside.

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #211 on: June 21, 2023, 06:35:52 pm »
Just reading about that Mariana Tench, if you put Mount Everest at the deepest level of the Mariana Tench [an area known as Challenger Deep] Mount Everest would still be underwater by 1.2 miles. :o

I learnt from my daughter recently that although Everest is the highest point in/above earth this is a taller ‘mountain’ somewhere near Hawaii, it’s just that the majority of it is underwater.

She could be talking bollocks obviously.

Offline Nogg3000

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #212 on: June 21, 2023, 06:41:46 pm »
Yeah he’s got a fascination for it and does a lot of scientific and deep ocean research.

He built his own 1 man sub to go down in to the challenger deep, think the documentary was on Netflix or Amazon. Pretty interesting. Think he was also bolted in to it if iirc.

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #213 on: June 21, 2023, 06:42:20 pm »
Best guess is a leak could lead to a catastrophic failure of the pressure vessel. All I have to go on is that scene in Raise the Titanic and The Abyss though.

Ah yeah i remember that scene from The Abyss.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #214 on: June 21, 2023, 06:49:06 pm »
He built his own 1 man sub to go down in to the challenger deep, think the documentary was on Netflix or Amazon. Pretty interesting. Think he was also bolted in to it if iirc.

That's fair enough. He likely got proper people in to design and build it, and he was only risking his own ass.
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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #215 on: June 21, 2023, 07:07:37 pm »
Can't believe this thing doesn't have a transponder or signaling device of some kind? The CEO is a billionaire.
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Offline Ray K

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #216 on: June 21, 2023, 07:09:18 pm »
I learnt from my daughter recently that although Everest is the highest point in/above earth this is a taller ‘mountain’ somewhere near Hawaii, it’s just that the majority of it is underwater.

She could be talking bollocks obviously.
She's right.

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #217 on: June 21, 2023, 07:35:09 pm »
Took 73 years to find the Titanic, expecting to find something a fraction the size in 4 days is a little optimistic.

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #218 on: June 21, 2023, 08:03:23 pm »
I learnt from my daughter recently that although Everest is the highest point in/above earth this is a taller ‘mountain’ somewhere near Hawaii, it’s just that the majority of it is underwater.

She could be talking bollocks obviously.
Seeing as she's you're daughter i'd say there's a good chance its the latter.  ;D

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #219 on: June 21, 2023, 08:08:08 pm »
I hope this puts an end to "Titanic Tourism", if nothing else...
I have to agree there. I couldn't believe it when I heard they were doing tourist trips to the wreck. It's a grave, for goodness sake. It feels wrong to me.
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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #220 on: June 21, 2023, 08:11:12 pm »
I have to agree there. I couldn't believe it when I heard they were doing tourist trips to the wreck. It's a grave, for goodness sake. It feels wrong to me.

Just went to the ocean gate website that advertises their expeditions and the Titanic one has a video which ends with some bloke saying the more publicity these expeditions get the more there will be a battle to get a seat in one of those things.

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #221 on: June 21, 2023, 08:12:19 pm »
I really hope they get out of this alive obviously. But if they do not, the CEO of this mission will die face-to-face with a man who is with his 19-year old son.


The man who took his son on that trip is a bigger dickhead than the CEO imo, he knew that it was damaged on the last dive and still signed away their lives.
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #223 on: June 21, 2023, 08:23:19 pm »
The lowest depth recorded for a submarine rescue is 1,575ft back in 1973

An amazing story worthy of a film
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Roger_Mallinson_and_Roger_Chapman

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Offline thejbs

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #225 on: June 21, 2023, 08:30:48 pm »
Surprised musk hasn’t offered to help yet.

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #226 on: June 21, 2023, 08:32:35 pm »
Surprised musk hasn’t offered to help yet.

How can he help though ?
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Offline Schmidt

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #227 on: June 21, 2023, 08:34:00 pm »
How can he help though ?

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Offline Juan Kerr

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic. Billionaires at risk.
« Reply #228 on: June 21, 2023, 08:34:11 pm »
I can't speak for other people. I became fascinated with the Titanic over 40 years ago, before it had even been discovered. And there have been other films other than Cameron's piece of soap opera guff.

Me neither, but I live in hope.
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Offline thejbs

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #229 on: June 21, 2023, 08:38:49 pm »
How can he help though ?

You’re missing the point entirely.

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #230 on: June 21, 2023, 08:45:45 pm »
How can he help though ?

Whethe he can or can't actually help in any way whatsoever will have no bearing at all on whether he decides to try and offer it.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic. Billionaires at risk.
« Reply #231 on: June 21, 2023, 09:00:54 pm »
I can't speak for other people. I became fascinated with the Titanic over 40 years ago, before it had even been discovered. And there have been other films other than Cameron's piece of soap opera guff.

Me neither, but I live in hope.

Thought it was a well told story, and decent film myself.  Was never going to be a documentary.

Won 11 Oscars, so I'm not on my own.

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #232 on: June 21, 2023, 09:10:33 pm »
Didn't wanna chip in on this but here I am now

The Americans not accepting help from certain companies is mental, reminds me a lot of the Kursk incident where the Russian denied everything until it was way too late and it was perfectly feasible to rescue them.

There are a few bad takes on this thread, so as someone who works in the industry, let me address them:

1. People saying it is simple and blah blah, simple is good in these sort of vehicles, less things to go wrong.

2. The controller is common in DSV/UROV's and even Submarines, I have seen PS4 controllers used and XBOX ones also, same as USAF use for their drones. It is a simple, mass produced set of switches which is intuitive, it makes a lot of sense and you can have lots of spares.

3. The safety systems. There seemingly are none, this is the main flaw for me, it's proper amateur hour, the main thing is the lack of cameras on arms, you need a 3rd person view of your surroundings to properly navigate them, using one or two close to body cameras is super dangerous in a ROV let alone a DSV with crew.


I would hypothesise that they are stuck under something, why? Well the DSV will have water fuses, if it remains in water for too long, they pop, drop the ballasts and deploy the balloon to bring it to the surface safely and automatically. Clearly that has not happened so I would say it must be stuck under wreckage they got too close to or something otherwise the fuses failed or whatever but it is simple tried and tested tech... very odd!!
Thanks for the insight. I get what you mean about a more simple craft having less potential faults, but shouldn’t the driver still have as much control available to them as possible? The use of touchscreens too - if the touchscreen fails, you’re surely losing multiple instruments/tools?

I had a quick watch of the Take me to Titanic documentary that liverbloke mentioned, it’s on iPlayer. The sub goes one two dives in the episode and there’s a significant fault on both occasions. Also a bit of an eye-opener - there are people out there who are absolutely obsessed with the Titanic.

Interestingly they were able to exchange messages with the mother ship from the seabed to troubleshoot the issue.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 09:13:58 pm by Clint Eastwood »

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #233 on: June 21, 2023, 09:27:33 pm »
Can't believe this thing doesn't have a transponder or signaling device of some kind? The CEO is a billionaire.

I don’t think it’s that straight forward when it comes to the bottom of the ocean, that signals have trouble travelling in that depth of water, think about things like MH370, that had a black box and all of that pinging away for 30 days and they never found it.
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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #234 on: June 21, 2023, 09:31:23 pm »
I don’t think it’s that straight forward when it comes to the bottom of the ocean, that signals have trouble travelling in that depth of water, think about things like MH370, that had a black box and all of that pinging away for 30 days and they never found it.

Difference being that we know exactly where the Titanic is situated.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic. Billionaires at risk.
« Reply #235 on: June 21, 2023, 09:31:58 pm »
Thought it was a well told story, and decent film myself.  Was never going to be a documentary.

Won 11 Oscars, so I'm not on my own.

I'll stick with A Night to Remember thanks. There are enough true stories of the Titanic's passengers and crew that I don't need some made up bs cliché love story. I don't give a toss how many Oscars it won. A Colour Purple didn't win any - doesn't make it a bad film, any more than winning 11 Oscars makes Titanic a good film.
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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #236 on: June 21, 2023, 09:34:56 pm »
Thought it was a well told story, and decent film myself.  Was never going to be a documentary.

Won 11 Oscars, so I'm not on my own.

I'll stick with A Night to Remember thanks. There are enough true stories of the Titanic's passengers and crew that I don't need some made up bs cliché love story. I don't give a toss how many Oscars it won. A Colour Purple didn't win any - doesn't make it a bad film, any more than winning 11 Oscars makes Titanic a good film.

I think one of those wins for Titanic was for Best Song. Should have been Miss Misery.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #237 on: June 21, 2023, 09:43:14 pm »
Didn't wanna chip in on this but here I am now

The Americans not accepting help from certain companies is mental, reminds me a lot of the Kursk incident where the Russian denied everything until it was way too late and it was perfectly feasible to rescue them.

There are a few bad takes on this thread, so as someone who works in the industry, let me address them:

1. People saying it is simple and blah blah, simple is good in these sort of vehicles, less things to go wrong.

2. The controller is common in DSV/UROV's and even Submarines, I have seen PS4 controllers used and XBOX ones also, same as USAF use for their drones. It is a simple, mass produced set of switches which is intuitive, it makes a lot of sense and you can have lots of spares.

3. The safety systems. There seemingly are none, this is the main flaw for me, it's proper amateur hour, the main thing is the lack of cameras on arms, you need a 3rd person view of your surroundings to properly navigate them, using one or two close to body cameras is super dangerous in a ROV let alone a DSV with crew.


I would hypothesise that they are stuck under something, why? Well the DSV will have water fuses, if it remains in water for too long, they pop, drop the ballasts and deploy the balloon to bring it to the surface safely and automatically. Clearly that has not happened so I would say it must be stuck under wreckage they got too close to or something otherwise the fuses failed or whatever but it is simple tried and tested tech... very odd!!


I remember Robert Ballard in his Titanic book talking about the one golden rule of piloting a submersible: never go under an overhang, especially a man made one.

I don't know much about submersibles, but I know a fair bit about the Titanic, and the wreck. The only places where a DSV could get caught like this is either the bow or stern. It may be caught under the overhang of the stern by the rudder and propellers, or perhaps landed on the ship by the grand staircase at the bow, but misjudged the ballast, causing the roof to collapse and for the sub to fall into the bowels of the ship.

I would imagine DSVs would descend to the wreck site safely away either bow or stern, and then be guided to them. Perhaps once they were there, the pilot decided to show off to their prospective client at the wreck site, and took a stupid risk? 

And one other thing, major malfunctions on DSV's aren't unheard of. During Alvin's visit to the wreck site back in 1986, the sub's onboard sonar went offline more than once, and at least twice seawater got into the batteries and started a short, causing the dives to be cut short. They still made it to the bottom, but could only stay briefly.

That's on a sub considered top of the line for it's kind of work, with all the expertise, engineering and money the US Navy cared to put its way. I doubt this private company has anything like those resources.
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Offline hide5seek

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #238 on: June 21, 2023, 09:56:07 pm »
Thought it was a well told story, and decent film myself.  Was never going to be a documentary.

Won 11 Oscars, so I'm not on my own.
A night to Remember is far  superior.

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Re: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.
« Reply #239 on: June 21, 2023, 09:58:37 pm »
Difference being that we know exactly where the Titanic is situated.

LOL that’s a very good point!
Thinking is overrated.
The mind is a tool, it's not meant to be used that much.
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