Topic: Gay Footballers

[thejbs]

Good on him, but men’s football largely is still in the dark ages.

Some engerlund fans with 6 pints of pre match stella with give him dogs abuse.

Fixed it. The women’s game is doing fine in the 21st century.

[Drinks Sangria]

Nice one lid. Best of luck to him.

[hide5seek]

Fair play to the lad, he has bottle.

and  as JOB says
You don't choose to be gay, you do choose to be homophobic

[RedForeverTT]

Thomas Hitzlsperger was interviewed on BBC 5 Live this morning where he didn’t sound optimistic that footballers feel comfortable coming out and he couldn’t see that changing for the next 5 years.

I think he got a point there. These issues were discussed 10-15 years ago and still it doesn’t seem to have much progress. Are they worried they would be banned from playing in countries with anti-gay laws like Serbia, China and Saudi Arabia? The issues could be bigger than that but there weren’t talked enough.

On a brighter note, I am very proud that our fans support gay footballers.

[RainbowFlick]

Fixed it. The women’s game is doing fine in the 21st century.

womens' football is lovely. full of warmth and nice family vibes. i hope LFC's womens' team continues to get growing support as it's a nice vibe and cheap.

[Nobby Reserve]

Idrissa Gueye outs himself as cuntish bigot, refusing to play in PSG's most recent game because he objected to them wearing a rainbow symbol to mark the International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia (which the France FA support and ask teams to show their support for)

Cheikhou Kouyate tweeted a picture of him and Gueye with 'Real Man' caption, whilst Ismaila Sarr posted "100%"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61492696

[wige]

Beyond me why society seems to feel that people are required to disclose their sexual preferences.

Fair play to the lad, not undermining what he's done.

[Nobby Reserve]

Beyond me why society seems to feel that people are required to disclose their sexual preferences.

Fair play to the lad, not undermining what he's done.

Because gay people have been victimised, demonised, even criminalised for years and continue, in some quarters, to face discrimination and hate. People don't choose their sexuality. To have prominent sportspeople come out as gay helps to remove the remaining [ridiculous, illogical] stigmas.

[ToneLa]

As Klopp said its mad it has to be a thing but alas the world we're in, good on anyone coming out

[wige]

Because gay people have been victimised, demonised, even criminalised for years and continue, in some quarters, to face discrimination and hate. People don't choose their sexuality. To have prominent sportspeople come out as gay helps to remove the remaining [ridiculous, illogical] stigmas.

Yeah, not sure that the improving attitudes to homosexuality or reducing discrimination requires people to publicly state whether they find men, women or both sexually attractive. Just seems an inherently outdated attitude itself. Who gives a shit what gender someone else likes screwing? People are, and should be free to love and fuck anyone they want to (with the usual, and vital, caveats of all parties being consenting adults) Don't see any need for a sportsperson, politician, CEO, celebrity to publicly 'come out'. You don't get people publicly 'coming out' as straight, and ultimately, what's the fucking difference? One person of gender loves, or enjoys fucking, another person of gender.

All just seems so medieval. 

[redgriffin73]

Idrissa Gueye outs himself as cuntish bigot, refusing to play in PSG's most recent game because he objected to them wearing a rainbow symbol to mark the International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia (which the France FA support and ask teams to show their support for)

Cheikhou Kouyate tweeted a picture of him and Gueye with 'Real Man' caption, whilst Ismaila Sarr posted "100%"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61492696

There's a twitter hashtag from his fellow homophobes #WeAreAllIdrissa

I assume they decided not to go with #WeAreAllGueye for some reason.

[Libertine]

There's a twitter hashtag from his fellow homophobes #WeAreAllIdrissa

I assume they decided not to go with #WeAreAllGueye for some reason.

#WeAreAllCunts would also work.

[El Lobo]

There's a twitter hashtag from his fellow homophobes #WeAreAllIdrissa

I assume they decided not to go with #WeAreAllGueye for some reason.

I know its not really funny because its an absolutely inhuman, vile opinion to have.....but his name being pronounced Gay is still a bit funny

[lobsterboy]

Best of luck to lad, applaud his bravery. Should never be an issue but until we wean our species off shite like the abrahamic death cults then things wont change.

[cptrios]

There's a twitter hashtag from his fellow homophobes #WeAreAllIdrissa

I assume they decided not to go with #WeAreAllGueye for some reason.

Pretty incredible (if not surprising) that someone can be seen as a spiritual hero for taking a pro-hate stand.

That being said, I hope LFC don't try making any gestures like this. I do not want to see which of our players does what Gueye did.

[the 92A]

Yeah, not sure that the improving attitudes to homosexuality or reducing discrimination requires people to publicly state whether they find men, women or both sexually attractive. Just seems an inherently outdated attitude itself. Who gives a shit what gender someone else likes screwing? People are, and should be free to love and fuck anyone they want to (with the usual, and vital, caveats of all parties being consenting adults) Don't see any need for a sportsperson, politician, CEO, celebrity to publicly 'come out'. You don't get people publicly 'coming out' as straight, and ultimately, what's the fucking difference? One person of gender loves, or enjoys fucking, another person of gender.

All just seems so medieval.

Because it is assumed that every male footballer in the world is straight. That out of the hundreds of thousands of men who have been professional footballers there are none that are gay. That is impossible so it means lots of professional footballers hide a massive part of their existence because of fear, they are forced into hiding who they are not because they want to but because of the consequences of being themselves. This young lad has bravely chosen to break that chain to show that there are gay footballers and they can be themselves without having to hide a massive part of who they are as human beings.

[TepidT2O]

How depressing that Gueye story is.. how utterly depressing ….

[Yorkykopite]

For anyone who hasn't watched his interview.
Massive kudos to the lad.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/-B4ygBi9Bpc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/-B4ygBi9Bpc</a>

Best of luck kid. Hope you have great success.

[smutchin]

I assume they decided not to go with #WeAreAllGueye for some reason.

I didn't realise when the story about Jake Daniels first came out that he's only 17. Fucking hell, that's especially brave at that age, with his whole career still ahead of him. Bloody good luck to him. I really hope he is able to succeed and reach the level he deserves (no idea if he's any good as a player, mind).

[G Richards]

I will try to offer an alternate viewpoint with regard to Gueye.

I believe it is a day in France designated for people to be able to stand against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia. In a modern, progressive democracy, like France, it’s all par for the course.

To my knowledge, Idrissa Gueye isn’t going out of his way to be antagonistic. He hasn’t set up any alternate rally, or marched for an alternate cause, or spoken out as an anti-gay activist. (If he has, I stand corrected).

It seems to me that he just doesn’t want to be forced to do something that is against his will, against his religion (I think), and also against the law in his home country (I think).

Does he have any rights in this equation? Not rights to go against the law in France, as he lives there and can’t do that, but rights to not participate in a celebration of something he doesn’t support? 

He is a footballer who presumably just wants to go about his business and train and play football (yes, for large sums of money). Is he obliged to show his support for something that he doesn’t support?

I disagree with him, but calling him a cuntish bigot, and pro hate, just for not wanting to be involved in celebrating something that is against his cultural and religious grain, seems intolerant the other way! Why can’t we just live and let live?

[markmywords]

Idrissa Gueye outs himself as cuntish bigot, refusing to play in PSG's most recent game because he objected to them wearing a rainbow symbol to mark the International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia (which the France FA support and ask teams to show their support for)

Cheikhou Kouyate tweeted a picture of him and Gueye with 'Real Man' caption, whilst Ismaila Sarr posted "100%"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61492696

This is being represented as being as issue of respecting Gueye religious beliefs. And those attacking him are verging on islamophobia.  This issue might require a touch of tolerance on both sides

[TepidT2O]

This is being represented as being as issue of respecting Gueye religious beliefs. And those attacking him are verging on islamophobia.  This issue might require a touch of tolerance on both sides

No, this is the way HE interprets his faith. 

Some people are gay, he needs to get over it.  Religion is no excuse for being a bigot.

[FlashGordon]

No, this is the way HE interprets his faith. 

Some people are gay, he needs to get over it.  Religion is no excuse for being a bigot.

This, 1000 times over.

[cptrios]

I believe it is a day in France designated for people to be able to stand against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia. In a modern, progressive democracy, like France, it’s all par for the course.

With regard to Gueye, to my knowledge he isn’t going out of his way to be antagonistic. He hasn’t set up any alternate rally, or marched for an alternate cause, or spoken out as an anti-gay activist. (If he has, I stand corrected).

It seems to me that he just doesn’t want to be forced to do something that is against his will, against his religion (I think), and also against the law in his home country (I think).

Does he have any rights in this equation? Not rights to go against the law in France, as he lives there and can’t do that, but rights to not participate in a celebration of something he doesn’t support? 

He is a footballer who presumably just wants to go about his business and train and play football (yes, for large sums of money). Is he obliged to show his support for something that he doesn’t support?

I disagree with him, but calling him a cuntish bigot, and pro hate, just for not wanting to be involved in celebrating something that is against his cultural and religious grain, seems intolerant the other way! Why can’t we just live and let live?

If he comes out and says the bold bit and tells the twitter idiots to stop celebrating him, fine. I don't like his views, but he's entitled to them as long as he doesn't shove them in my face or use them against anyone else. It's also possible that he did it specifically not to get into any trouble back home.

But do yourself a non-favor and check out that hashtag on twitter. Whatever his motivation, the results have been very much pro-hate, cuntish, and bigoted.

[Kenny's Jacket]

How depressing that Gueye story is.. how utterly depressing ….

Its awful.  Bigotry hidden behind religion again.

Luckily for us Jordan Henderson is our captain. I take great solace in that .

[smutchin]

It seems to me that he just doesn’t want to be forced to do something that is against his will, against his religion (I think), and also against the law in his home country (I think).

If he doesn't like the culture in the country where he has chosen to ply his trade - and be paid very well for doing so - he has a very simple option available to him.

There have been times in my career where the option has been available to me to go and work in the Middle East. Several friends have done so and made a lot of money from it. Unlike them, I chose never to go and work in those countries.

[rawcusk8]

If he doesn't like the culture in the country where he has chosen to ply his trade - and be paid very well for doing so - he has a very simple option available to him.

There have been times in my career where the option has been available to me to go and work in the Middle East. Several friends have done so and made a lot of money from it. Unlike them, I chose never to go and work in those countries.

Has he said he doesn’t like the culture of the country or anything along those lines? If the club asked Ibu, Mo or Sadio to wear a shirt with betting logos or a beer company would they too be criticised if they refused to do so?

[Red-Soldier]

Has he said he doesn’t like the culture of the country or anything along those lines? If the club asked Ibu, Mo or Sadio to wear a shirt with betting logos or a beer company would they too be criticised if they refused to do so?

Not quite the same as hating gay people, is it....?

[Circa1892]

Has he said he doesn’t like the culture of the country or anything along those lines? If the club asked Ibu, Mo or Sadio to wear a shirt with betting logos or a beer company would they too be criticised if they refused to do so?

There is a difference between promoting Paddy Power or Carling and supporting equal rights.

[thejbs]

Has he said he doesn’t like the culture of the country or anything along those lines? If the club asked Ibu, Mo or Sadio to wear a shirt with betting logos or a beer company would they too be criticised if they refused to do so?

Being opposed to gambling or alcohol doesn't affect the esteem or rights of another human being. Terrible analogy.

[smutchin]

Has he said he doesn’t like the culture of the country or anything along those lines?

The culture of the country is to be accepting of homosexuality. He is explicitly refusing to acknowledge that.

If the club asked Ibu, Mo or Sadio to wear a shirt with betting logos or a beer company would they too be criticised if they refused to do so?

I'm sure they would. Has anything like that ever happened?

[thejbs]

This is being represented as being as issue of respecting Gueye religious beliefs. And those attacking him are verging on islamophobia.  This issue might require a touch of tolerance on both sides

Nah. It's superstitious bigotry. Religious beliefs cannot ever trump the basic human rights of a person. A gay person is gay from birth, it isn't something they decided upon or were indoctrinated with. It's not something they can abandon or change.

And you can have distaste for Islam without being islamophobic. I hold it in the same regard to all religions, to be honest.

[Walshy nMe®]

Not similar but look ar

I'm sure they would. Has anything like that ever happened?

All I can think of is James McClean refusing to wear a poppy and became public enemy number one with all of the Ingerlund wankers.

[G Richards]

Does Gueye have any rights in this case?

We are dropping lots of extreme words like hatred, bigot, and so on.

As far as I can tell he just doesn’t want to be forced into celebrating or promoting something he disagrees with.

Are we at the point where, even if we disagree with his stance, we won’t allow it?

[thejbs]

Does Gueye have any rights in this case?

We are dropping lots of extreme words like hatred, bigot, and so on.

As far as I can tell he just doesn’t want to be forced into celebrating or promoting something he disagrees with.

Are we at the point where, even if we disagree with his stance, we won’t allow it?

Your rights cannot impinge upon that of another person. Dismissing the rights of someone to lawfully practice their own sexuality is, unequivocally, bigotry.

[G Richards]

Your rights cannot impinge upon that of another person. Dismissing the rights of someone to lawfully practice their own sexuality is, unequivocally, bigotry.

People can, and do, practice their sexuality in France, per the law of the land. Gueye isn’t prohibiting that, nor campaigning to change it. He is not taking anyone’s rights away. Not that he has the authority to anyway.

Apparently (not that I’ve talked with him!) he just doesn’t want to celebrate and promote something he disagrees with.

Personally I think he has the right to do that, even if I disagree with his stance.

[TepidT2O]

Does Gueye have any rights in this case?

We are dropping lots of extreme words like hatred, bigot, and so on.

As far as I can tell he just doesn’t want to be forced into celebrating or promoting something he disagrees with.

Are we at the point where, even if we disagree with his stance, we won’t allow it?

Do you think what he has done shows bigotry against gay people?

[thejbs]

People can, and do, practice their sexuality in France, per the law of the land. Gueye isn’t prohibiting that, nor campaigning to change it. He is not taking anyone’s rights away. Not that he has the authority to anyway.

Apparently (not that I’ve talked with him!) he just doesn’t want to celebrate and promote something he disagrees with.

Personally I think he has the right to do that, even if I disagree with his stance.

The rainbow campaign is designed to promote LGBT equality. He doesn't want to promote LGBT equality. What reason could he have for that other than he doesn't believe LGBT people should not be treated equally? Accusations of bigotry are completely justified.

[markmywords]

Do you think what he has done shows bigotry against gay people?

He may or may not be bigoted.

I see bigotry connected to hatred or disdain

Whilst people aren't born alcoholics

IF we had a Carlsberg event, Mane may not want to attend, this doesn't mean that perhaps Mane hates or has disdain for all drinkers, because he doesn't want to celebrate it. He may believe he is pleasing His God this way, by taking this stance, maybe we don't get to dictate how muslims should read the Koran, in this instance, maybe in other areas it would be different

 The lack of tolerance and snap conclusions from many people who might call themselves liberal is unfortunate

[G Richards]

I haven’t got a clue about what Gueye thinks as I don’t know the fella!

Still, from afar, his religion and the law of the land of his home country appear to be at odds with what he is being forced to promote and celebrate in France.

We seem to want an all or nothing approach in this situation. If you are not with us you are against us. That sort of thing. Perhaps it is more nuanced, and we are unnecessarily trying to make an example out of him?

Maybe he’s just a fella who plays football, trains, earns money, and just wants a quiet life?
Maybe he doesn’t see himself as an activist?
Maybe he feels manipulated into doing things he didn’t sign up to do?
Maybe his stance is a quiet observation of his religion? Not personally imposing anything on anyone, but quietly being true to his own conscience?
Maybe he is thinking about the shit he might get back home in Senegal? It is culturally different to France!
Maybe he is thinking about how his family might be regarded back home and he is trying to protect them?
Maybe there’s a homophobic Imam with a big club who is going to go round to his Ma’s house?

Like I say, I don’t know the fella, but there might be lots of things he could be thinking. 

Serious comment: I support the right of a fella to not participate in something.

He is not campaigning to change the law in France or take anyone’s rights away. It’s a storm in a teacup, but my observation is the level of tolerance directed toward Idrissa Gueye is minimal.