Author Topic: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’  (Read 29999 times)

Offline Macc77

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #880 on: April 12, 2024, 11:21:16 am »
Just win the league don’t care too much for the Europa.

We had a lot of "EL is more important than the FA Cup" talk on here after the Utd QF defeat, but I didn't really see it that way. For me, our second ever league and cup double was far more enticing than winning the secondary European comp, and once we exited the Cup it was just about the league for me. EL would be nice, a couple of days in Dublin for many of us would have been fantastic, but not the be-all-and-end-all, it's a comp we're in because we finished 5th, it's something we ended up in, not something we aspired to be in. Some of the clubs greatest days are in this comp back in the 70s, but it was a different comp, you qualified for it after a very good league campaign finishing 2nd or 3rd, it doesn't feel anywhere near as prestigious now. So, if you'd told me on the day we lost to Utd that we ended up winning the league, I'd not have cared a jot what happened in the rest of the EL campaign, and I still think that.

But... 3-0 at home is another matter, and for me the issue isn't that we might bow out of the Europa League, it's what the defeat means for the next 5 or 6 weeks. We simply don't lose games at home like that very often, and the lack of energy and intensity either points to us taking the game less seriously than we should (the line-up possibly hints at that) or that we've hit a wall after an unbelievable campaign fighting on 4 fronts with a list of injury setbacks.

I hope it's the former, I hope we just underestimated Atalanta, made some questionable selections, overlooked the opposition, got a punch in the face and never recovered, and all will be forgotten by the time we play again on Sunday. That's the only attitude we can have right now I think.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #881 on: April 12, 2024, 11:21:33 am »
Genuine question and just interested in hearing peoples theories on this ......

Why in every single game we play,do we seem to serve up an absolutely huge chance for the opposition to score from inside the first 5 minutes of the game?

Half the time the opposition score and we go behind and half the time they miss, just like last night when Kelleher saved from point blank range with his face?  What is the reason we are so switched off and not up to speed at the start of every game like this?

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #882 on: April 12, 2024, 11:21:37 am »
It's 2% after an 8 year price freeze.

I can't buy into the protests at all.  Those that do fair enough you have your principles, just don't make the mistake of thinking you speak for all fans (and yes I am a match goer).



There has been an 8 year price freeze for one reason because of an organised protest that saw us walk out when they tried to hike tickets from £59 to £77 in 2016. As a match goer you have massively benefitted from that protest. If that price hike had been allowed it would have set a precedent. The liklihood is that we would now be looking at ticket prices north of a £100.

So would you be happy with paying £100+ per ticket?

If you are I suggest that you contact the club and ask to pay more. Oh yeah and it will be £110 next season £125 the season after. Football is way overpriced as it is. During a cost of living crisis a luxury entertainment should be coming down in price not going up.

The best bit is fans attacking fellow fans for not being happy clappy seals roaring the team to victory whilst being taken for mugs. The club should be looking after it's core supporters not trying to fleece them time and time again.
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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #883 on: April 12, 2024, 11:21:46 am »
That was an awful performance and Atalanta’s tactics were perfect against us. There’s no way that we are a bad team but we just couldn’t cope.

I’m going to suggest that it was partially down to coaching and partially due to tiredness.

We have a way of winning games but it certainly isn’t down to playing under pressure when there’s little space.

If you watch all the good passing teams the receiving player will move into space just as the ball is being passed. It appears that this is coached into them. No matter how closely you are marked, if you move towards where the ball will be played you will get there before your marker as they have to react. The person playing the ball and the receiver need to be on the same wavelength. Then when the ball is received the next player in the chain needs to move etc.

Yesterday we were standing still and only appeared to react when the ball was played. That gives the person marking you time to follow you or to get there first.

Atalanta ensured that Mac Allister was well marked and it then appeared that nobody else was capable of controlling the game. Anyone ahead of the ball was closely marked and so a lot of our passes were sideways or backwards. Nobody was anticipating the pass.

Ok that’s a simplification but it does appear that if you press us then we are unable to move the ball forwards quickly. We were too static and too easy to mark.

Our marking of their players when they have the ball was very poor last night. Nobody was getting tight to the person who eventually scored which made it easy for them to hit the target.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2024, 11:26:08 am by stockdam »
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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #884 on: April 12, 2024, 11:26:08 am »

The best bit is fans attacking fellow fans for not being happy clappy seals roaring the team to victory whilst being taken for mugs. The club should be looking after it's core supporters not trying to fleece them time and time again.


100% agree with both those statements. Also 100% agree that the protest absolutely killed the atmosphere dead, created a bizarre night and might or might not have had an effect on the team.

I don't think it contributed to us being SO shite, (and maybe the players didn't know much about it, but they will have seen absolutely no colour or enthusiasm from the start in the Kop), but it definitely contributed to the all around shiteness of last night.

And no, I don't know what the answer is, protest in other ways? But it 100% made the night feel shite from the off, whether agreed with or not.
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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #885 on: April 12, 2024, 11:29:13 am »
Genuine question and just interested in hearing peoples theories on this ......

Why in every single game we play,do we seem to serve up an absolutely huge chance for the opposition to score from inside the first 5 minutes of the game?

Half the time the opposition score and we go behind and half the time they miss, just like last night when Kelleher saved from point blank range with his face?  What is the reason we are so switched off and not up to speed at the start of every game like this?

Not sure really, but it must be tactical. It's been this way for 2 years. Either we're conditioned to grow in to the games and other teams are not, or part of our system is we find out feel in to game. This happened a lot last season and at the beginning of this season. We did get slightly better for a period of time, but recently we seem to have reverted to type. Our defensive stats are not too bad to be fair and I think part of it is we are not set up to control as much as say Arsenal/City do.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #886 on: April 12, 2024, 11:29:24 am »
Their man to man marking effort was outstanding and they won a lot of their 50/50 challenges which was disappointing. Only Mac could handle it really. Sometimes you have to take it on the chin if the opposition score a worldie and its just not your day, but gor this one it felt like a commitment to winning the 1v1 battles wasn't there and that's the basic requirement. Any team looking to play us soon will look at that and rub their hands and now it'll impact these games where opponents will fancy it and make sure to be physical.

What disappointed me further was the team all high fiving eachother at the end like what the fuck. Body language was as if they won or they weren't that bothered. We're soft as shite.
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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #887 on: April 12, 2024, 11:29:36 am »
Is right Al. Great post!

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #888 on: April 12, 2024, 11:32:05 am »
Genuine question and just interested in hearing peoples theories on this ......

Why in every single game we play,do we seem to serve up an absolutely huge chance for the opposition to score from inside the first 5 minutes of the game?

Half the time the opposition score and we go behind and half the time they miss, just like last night when Kelleher saved from point blank range with his face?  What is the reason we are so switched off and not up to speed at the start of every game like this?

We have a midfield that simply isn't quick enough and athletic enough to cope with teams that make fast starts. It has happened since we lost Gini and Henderson and Fabinho aged over night. All teams want to start fast however if you start a game with Endo, Macca and Elliott three small slow players then you aren't going to win those initial battles.

All three have good stamina and their technical ability comes to the fore once the game settles down. However the start of games is all about players being fresh and it is speed and strength that come to the fore. We know that we are vulnerable at the start of games and so do the opposition.

You look at who we are competing with and they both pack their team with big physical players and are far more capable of winning the initial physical battles. I think Klopp knows this and is why we have tried to bring in physical monsters for the middle of the pitch.

If you look at us in our pomp then the likes of Fabinho, Henderson and Wijnaldum could all win their physical battles at the start of games or if we were defending a lead late in games.
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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #889 on: April 12, 2024, 11:36:29 am »
There has been an 8 year price freeze for one reason because of an organised protest that saw us walk out when they tried to hike tickets from £59 to £77 in 2016. As a match goer you have massively benefitted from that protest. If that price hike had been allowed it would have set a precedent. The liklihood is that we would now be looking at ticket prices north of a £100.

So would you be happy with paying £100+ per ticket?

If you are I suggest that you contact the club and ask to pay more. Oh yeah and it will be £110 next season £125 the season after. Football is way overpriced as it is. During a cost of living crisis a luxury entertainment should be coming down in price not going up.

The best bit is fans attacking fellow fans for not being happy clappy seals roaring the team to victory whilst being taken for mugs. The club should be looking after it's core supporters not trying to fleece them time and time again.


Not to derail the thread but this is spot on.  The current increase is an own goal given the cost of living increase, especially when match day revenue is c.20% of total revenue.

https://www.footballtransfers.com/us/transfer-news/uk-premier-league/2023/04/liverpool-revenue-tv-broadcast-matchday-commercial-money-list-us

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #890 on: April 12, 2024, 11:46:46 am »
100% agree with both those statements. Also 100% agree that the protest absolutely killed the atmosphere dead, created a bizarre night and might or might not have had an effect on the team.

I don't think it contributed to us being SO shite, (and maybe the players didn't know much about it, but they will have seen absolutely no colour or enthusiasm from the start in the Kop), but it definitely contributed to the all around shiteness of last night.

And no, I don't know what the answer is, protest in other ways? But it 100% made the night feel shite from the off, whether agreed with or not.

I think one of the problems is that people look at the end result and not how we got there. The club has point blank refused to listen to the fan groups. This wasn't done on a whim it is the result of the fan groups being ignored.

It is akin to the way employers blame people who strike for the disruption it causes. Like striking removing the flags was a last resort. Yet it is the people forced to protest who get the blame.

If a boffin went to the Club and said I have a foolproof way of guaranteeing you better home results. I am sure the club would have its chequebook out in a flash. Well that is what the 12th man has done for decades. Yet instead of acknowledging how important the fan base is they are just used as an ATM.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #891 on: April 12, 2024, 11:48:55 am »
Seems I'm in the minority that doesn't think we're completely out of it? It's a massive outside chance, but we've defied the odds many times in Europe before.

If we were at our best and got smashed then I'd struggle to see a way to turn it around. But we were fucking awful in every department possible. Get the basics right, play like a team and try and get that early goal. You never know what that kind of pressure might do to them.

I think we still have a chance. They're not very good which is why last night was so embarrassing. But they're not very good which is why we could win 3-0, 4-1, 4-0 next week.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #892 on: April 12, 2024, 11:58:40 am »
Not really bothered about the Europa League in general but would still love to win it this year as a proper farewell for Klopp. I still think we have a chance to qualify eventhough it's extremely unlikely now.

The team selection sent a really wrong message of underestimating Atalanta and Gasperini and it resulted in this defeat in the end.

Howler from the players and manager but it happens.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #893 on: April 12, 2024, 12:02:10 pm »
we was shite and I am not used to it

If one of the side effects of this though is going for the league even harder, then good, good

But we were terrible to a man

 I can't imagine what it's like to support clubs where this is a routine occurence - no wonder they're all miserable sods who love to have a go at us

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #894 on: April 12, 2024, 12:04:27 pm »
Not really bothered about the Europa League in general but would still love to win it this year as a proper farewell for Klopp. I still think we have a chance to qualify eventhough it's extremely unlikely now.

The team selection sent a really wrong message of underestimating Atalanta and Gasperini and it resulted in this defeat in the end.

Howler from the players and manager but it happens.
There’s been a few posts along these lines, which surprises me as this club is all about wining European (actually all) trophy’s. Yep even the secondary one.
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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #895 on: April 12, 2024, 12:05:30 pm »
There has been an 8 year price freeze for one reason because of an organised protest that saw us walk out when they tried to hike tickets from £59 to £77 in 2016. As a match goer you have massively benefitted from that protest. If that price hike had been allowed it would have set a precedent. The liklihood is that we would now be looking at ticket prices north of a £100.

So would you be happy with paying £100+ per ticket?

If you are I suggest that you contact the club and ask to pay more. Oh yeah and it will be £110 next season £125 the season after. Football is way overpriced as it is. During a cost of living crisis a luxury entertainment should be coming down in price not going up.

The best bit is fans attacking fellow fans for not being happy clappy seals roaring the team to victory whilst being taken for mugs. The club should be looking after it's core supporters not trying to fleece them time and time again.



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Offline Lee1-6Liv

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #896 on: April 12, 2024, 12:08:14 pm »
The worst thing for me and my daughter last night was, if we don't turn it around in the second leg, it will be the last time we have seen Klopp manage Liverpool. Don't have tickets for any of the remaining games :(

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #897 on: April 12, 2024, 12:14:06 pm »
I think how we perform in Sunday's game will tell us how the rest of the season will pan out. We need to play well and win.

If we're still 'protesting' on Sunday then we can wave the league goodbye.
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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #898 on: April 12, 2024, 12:14:17 pm »
There has been an 8 year price freeze for one reason because of an organised protest that saw us walk out when they tried to hike tickets from £59 to £77 in 2016. As a match goer you have massively benefitted from that protest. If that price hike had been allowed it would have set a precedent. The liklihood is that we would now be looking at ticket prices north of a £100.

So would you be happy with paying £100+ per ticket?


You are reading something into my post that isn't there. Where did I mention the 2016 protest?, I'm sure you will find unanimity amongst the fanbase that that protest was the just, warranted, well executed and got the result we have all benefitted from since as you say.

My view is that after an 8 year freeze, a couple of well below inflationary price increases is not unreasonable.   
« Last Edit: April 12, 2024, 12:15:56 pm by Dazzer23 »

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #899 on: April 12, 2024, 12:16:54 pm »
You are reading something into my post that isn't there. Where did I mention the 2016 protest?, I'm sure you will find unanimity amongst the fanbase that that was the just, warranted, well executed and got the result we have all benefitted from since as you say.

My view is that an 8 year freeze, a couple of well below inflationary price increases is not unreasonable.   

So what about next year, the year after and the year after that? When Kop tickets have slowly crept up towards £50 and Main Stand tickets are up around the £77 we walked out on years ago? The "where were you when the club started this, why didn't you protest then?" crowd will be out. Its already difficult enough for people to go to the match yet the club want to make it more difficult for them. An organisation that turns over nearly £600m a year doesn't need to fleece their hard working supporters out of an extra £1m a season. They don't need it, we do!

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #900 on: April 12, 2024, 12:18:17 pm »
Not really bothered about the Europa League in general but would still love to win it this year as a proper farewell for Klopp.

I want us to win EVERY game and EVERY competition we're in but European football has become so devalued, it's hard to care about it any more. And it's only going to get worse with the expansion of the CL next year.

I still find it ridiculous that the team finishing fifth in the league earns a place in European competition, even when it's us benefitting from that ridiculousness. And now Uefa are talking about capping the number of teams that can qualify from a single league because it's getting out of hand - a problem entirely of their own making.

Our season might have been very different if we'd not been in Europe. Imagine that.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #901 on: April 12, 2024, 12:24:10 pm »
So what about next year, the year after and the year after that? When Kop tickets have slowly crept up towards £50

The price of everything goes up mate, it's a fact of life.  As long as any increases are in line with inflation, yes I'll accept them

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #902 on: April 12, 2024, 12:24:28 pm »
It's 2% after an 8 year price freeze.

I can't buy into the protests at all.  Those that do fair enough you have your principles, just don't make the mistake of thinking you speak for all fans (and yes I am a match goer).

 I was sceptical of the protests until I read we are setting commercial revenue records for our club

The working class fan may already be priced out the game

So it seems stingy by the club
But everything has gone up and 2% is less than my rent rise of 5%

So it could be much worse, but they're already a bit overpriced in the first place

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #903 on: April 12, 2024, 12:28:53 pm »
There’s been a few posts along these lines, which surprises me as this club is all about wining European (actually all) trophy’s. Yep even the secondary one.

That's fair enough, and I did say this competition plays a huge part in our history and our experiences winning it in 73 and 76 played no small part in us believing we could win the European Cup in 77. I don't downplay the comp in our history, more the current incarnation of it coupled with the fact we have a golden opportunity to win the league here. If we were 6th in the league I'd be all out wanting us to win this comp over finishing in a CL spot, trophies are the main thing for me, winning stuff is what the club is all about. But for me the league is the everything, the chances to win it become harder and harder and we have a great chance now. For me the EL is slightly getting in the way, it's causing a shift in focus and resulted in the whole team (IMO) lacking their weekend intensity for what looked like a lesser game last night. Jurgen doesn't pick Tsimikas in the league in April, he doesn't leave out Salah and Diaz in the league in April, etc. The whole thing produced a lack of focus and intensity across the board, and given the league is winnable, this for me was always a nice extra that we can live without if and when it becomes unavailable. We're still in it, we should try and stay in it, but not at the expense of the No.1 goal.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #904 on: April 12, 2024, 12:34:09 pm »
The price of everything goes up mate, it's a fact of life.  As long as any increases are in line with inflation, yes I'll accept them

Ticket prices haven't gone up with inflation though.

This is from a decade ago.https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2027382/Premier-League-football-tickets-soar-1-000-decades.html

The price of watching the football matches of top English teams has soared to eye-watering levels, which is pricing many out of watching the beautiful game, according to research.

The creation of the English Premier League in the 1989-1990 season has seen the game turn into a multi-million pound industry and, in turn, ticket prices have shot skywards.

Bank of England figures show cumulative inflation of 77 per cent since 1990, yet at Liverpool a ticket is 1,000 per cent more expensive.
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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #905 on: April 12, 2024, 12:38:17 pm »
Ticket prices haven't gone up with inflation though.

This is from a decade ago.https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2027382/Premier-League-football-tickets-soar-1-000-decades.html

The price of watching the football matches of top English teams has soared to eye-watering levels, which is pricing many out of watching the beautiful game, according to research.

The creation of the English Premier League in the 1989-1990 season has seen the game turn into a multi-million pound industry and, in turn, ticket prices have shot skywards.

Bank of England figures show cumulative inflation of 77 per cent since 1990, yet at Liverpool a ticket is 1,000 per cent more expensive.

You're right on this, tickets should be kept within the reach of locals as they are the base from which the club is great. FSG need to stop this sillyness with tickets.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #906 on: April 12, 2024, 12:40:42 pm »
The price of everything goes up mate, it's a fact of life.  As long as any increases are in line with inflation, yes I'll accept them

But you shouldn't! The club don't need to do this and they end up pricing the people out who you think are so important to the atmosphere. As long as you're ok though eh?

I was sceptical of the protests until I read we are setting commercial revenue records for our club

The working class fan may already be priced out the game

So it seems stingy by the club
But everything has gone up and 2% is less than my rent rise of 5%

So it could be much worse, but they're already a bit overpriced in the first place

That's the point that the protests are making. Everything is going up, life is getting harder day by day by supermarkets, energy companies, trains companies, rent, mortgages going up that the one solace you have in your life trying to add £1m to a £600m turnover just isn't needed at all.

Ticket prices haven't gone up with inflation though.

This is from a decade ago.https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2027382/Premier-League-football-tickets-soar-1-000-decades.html

The price of watching the football matches of top English teams has soared to eye-watering levels, which is pricing many out of watching the beautiful game, according to research.

The creation of the English Premier League in the 1989-1990 season has seen the game turn into a multi-million pound industry and, in turn, ticket prices have shot skywards.

Bank of England figures show cumulative inflation of 77 per cent since 1990, yet at Liverpool a ticket is 1,000 per cent more expensive.

This. At a loss how people can't understand this!

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #907 on: April 12, 2024, 12:48:28 pm »
As much as I’m dreadfully pissed off at the lack of atmosphere in the ground yesterday that I observed from half a world away, I don’t think Atalanta were that good and yes, we were bad.

I don’t think the selection was necessarily the issue apart from maybe Endo. IMO, when playing against a team that man marks, you need two things - ball players who can move it quickly, and players who are willing to take on and can beat their markers.

Endo, in this regard, is useless. Great for when we need to win the ball high up the pitch , but if you’re talking about deep progressions , he offers next to nothing. I’d argue that it’d be the same as Joe and Kostas as well - great when playing against a zonal defence but when you’ve got to deal with 1v1s and breaking lines, they don’t offer much.

Credit where due though, Atalanta won it back in spaces where they could hurt us and when they did they did. It wasn’t so much the fault of the individual players imo, much more a problem with the system and where the players were relative to the ball being lost.

In any case, while I think it’s unlikely that we’ll recover from this defeat in th completion, we aren’t known as the fucking jammiest team in European football for no reason - so you never know. An early goal or a couple of quick ones at any point could really set the cat amongst the pigeons.

Tactically though, if Atalanta are persisting with the man marking system then we just need better ball players. There no wonder Cody looked good , he’s quite good at beating his man. As is Curtis and even Macca. More balls on the half turn and making third man runs instead of square and long balls looking for knock ons.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #908 on: April 12, 2024, 12:48:57 pm »
Something is off with the fanbase, in my opinion. Too many of us are entitled cry babies at the moment. During the Utd game on Sunday, when they equalised everyone stopped singing in the pub and decided to slag our players off instead.

We have had many lucky wins this season where we've struggled to hit the target but came away with a late win - Newcastle, Palace, Forest to name a few. We were lucky to be top for so long but I'm not forgetting for one second that we should have beaten City at home, for example, and we've been dominating teams for the most part.

Our defence has been a shambles for a while and any team with a modicum of composure upfront tend to cause us severe problems. I'm not sure if this is a tactical, mental or personnel issue but it needs sorting out. We can't hit a barn door at the moment and look lost in possession sometimes.

As others have said, a result like this was coming - but what I want to see is for a section of our fans to grow up and stop acting like children when we don't pump teams 3-0 twice a week. The atmosphere yesterday was alarming, to say the least.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #909 on: April 12, 2024, 01:05:40 pm »
There has been an 8 year price freeze for one reason because of an organised protest that saw us walk out when they tried to hike tickets from £59 to £77 in 2016. As a match goer you have massively benefitted from that protest. If that price hike had been allowed it would have set a precedent. The liklihood is that we would now be looking at ticket prices north of a £100.

So would you be happy with paying £100+ per ticket?

If you are I suggest that you contact the club and ask to pay more. Oh yeah and it will be £110 next season £125 the season after. Football is way overpriced as it is. During a cost of living crisis a luxury entertainment should be coming down in price not going up.

The best bit is fans attacking fellow fans for not being happy clappy seals roaring the team to victory whilst being taken for mugs. The club should be looking after it's core supporters not trying to fleece them time and time again.

Completely right.
shut up clown. Naby Keita can buy your life and throw it away.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #910 on: April 12, 2024, 01:07:13 pm »
Really reminds me of the 3-0 loss to Watford in the title winning season. Mistakes punished,  chances not taken, defensive line all over the shop and a general lack of ideas going forward in key moments.

Agree with some of the other posters that this one is on Klopp. It was Atalanta’s system that made us suffer and we weren’t prepared for it. Always felt that despite us being favourites for the competition, we’d only win it if we kept our standards up.

I can’t rule us out, anyone would be foolish too, but that is a tough one to take. We need to really get back to being more defensively resolute. A few 1-0s and 2-0s in the league would do us a world of good.

Going over there next week, we need to avoid the temptation to go gung-ho, and need to focus on a clean sheet, whilst chipping away at their lead. 1-0 on 60 minutes is no bad thing. We need to dominate possession, camp in their half, push them right back and pen them in. We’re capable of doing so, but the key then becomes taking our chances.

As bad as we were tonight, we still created enough to score a few. I love Darwin but he’s not on form, and right now, he looks in need of a rest. Having a few games as an impact sub could be a good thing for him. Salah I believe needs more rhythm, he’s come back from injury and just isn’t quite finding the level yet, you could see the same with Jota and Jones yesterday too.

In my opinion, Gakpo has played his way into contention, and I’d start him against Palace. He offers a level of control up top that could help us all the way through the side, including helping to keep a clean sheet.

Szoboszlai, isn’t quite having the same impact, but he’s not miles away, it’s mainly his composure that needs to fall back into place. I’d persist with him, with Elliott as the option off the bench when needed. I don’t think Jones is ready to start yet either. He’s crucial to us when on form now, but he’s not back to his level yet.

The back seven were the ones to really suffer yesterday, I felt. Van Dijk and Mac Allister’s passing was off compared to what we’re used to. Konate too looked out of sorts, and it probably backs up the argument that this was the game for Quansah with Konate better suited to the United game. Gomez had his worst game for ages and Tsimikas looked too timid, when we really needed our full backs to push on an expose the space created behind the Atalanta pressing line, and I think the game would have suited Robbo and Bradley more, from the start. Particularly at home.

I actually felt, the game needed more players who could beat a man too, given the man to man marking operated, so a Gravenberch in midfield may well have suited us better, and I was disappointed to see Elliott off in the first changes, as although he struggled, he seemed more likely to create something than any one bar Gakpo, maybe, in the first half, and Diaz looks a must start for the second leg.

If Trent’s fit too, it becomes a different game, as his eye for a pass, and bravery on the ball would have been well suited to the game.

Overall, despite their breakaways, I felt we shaded the first half, even though you could see we weren’t fully coping with their setup. We weren’t clinical enough and were punished by a rare Kelleher error. Second half, we started bright too, all the subs gave us a momentarily lift, in fact, but it all soon looked disjointed and we ran out of ideas quickly, even though I think persistence with the plan would have paid dividends.

The game ended a mess, and we’ve started to gift teams goals in a way we haven’t been doing so far this season. As bad as the individual errors was the defensive organisation, which was at least partly responsible for each goal. Our offside trap which is usually superb was awful, and it could have cost us on more occasions than it did in the end.

Despite everything, it’s the same issues that are haunting us and part of that is our opponents being clinical whilst we are anything but. We need a massive improvement from Sunday onwards if this season isn’t going to end disappointingly. We need also to start picking a strongest XI and running with it now people are back from injury. There’s only a maximum of 9 games left on this run of one game every 3 days, we need to have consistency and fluency in them and rotating isn’t giving us that. By all means, switch up the side in game, at half time if needed, but we need to find a winning team fast and stick with it.

If we are at our best, this tie isn’t over, but we’ve got a lot of work to do in a week, if we are to reach that level. We go again against Palace and I expect a big response from the players and the crowd.

Its a shame when you pour your heart and soul into a post, nail it to a 't' and then it's completely blanked by everyone. So allow me Mikey lad. Superb post mate. Agree with every word as you'll see if you see my own thoughts just above yours.

 :)

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #911 on: April 12, 2024, 01:11:51 pm »
The creation of the English Premier League in the 1989-1990 season has seen the game turn into a multi-million pound industry and, in turn, ticket prices have shot skywards.

It's not just the cost of tickets either, there's also the cost of travel and accommodation, plus the price of food and drink within the ground.

I could afford a ticket to the occasional game (if I could actually get hold of one) but not being local, all the associated costs make it a very expensive undertaking. You can benefit from cheaper travel/accommodation by planning ahead but that's much harder to do with TV running the game now and kick-off times changed on a whim.

Going to football used to be an everyday thing, now it's a special occasion.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #912 on: April 12, 2024, 01:32:29 pm »
As much as ........................ and long balls looking for knock ons.

Also a very good post

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #913 on: April 12, 2024, 01:43:34 pm »
funny woke up this morning and thought we arent out of this tie.
weirdly i feel confident we can go there and have another glorious night

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #914 on: April 12, 2024, 02:06:21 pm »
Atalanta will be weary. If they could slap us about like this on their turf they will be all too aware that we can do the same on theirs. Keep it tight, get an early goal and then who knows?

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #915 on: April 12, 2024, 03:07:01 pm »
I think one of the problems is that people look at the end result and not how we got there. The club has point blank refused to listen to the fan groups. This wasn't done on a whim it is the result of the fan groups being ignored.

It is akin to the way employers blame people who strike for the disruption it causes. Like striking removing the flags was a last resort. Yet it is the people forced to protest who get the blame.

If a boffin went to the Club and said I have a foolproof way of guaranteeing you better home results. I am sure the club would have its chequebook out in a flash. Well that is what the 12th man has done for decades. Yet instead of acknowledging how important the fan base is they are just used as an ATM.



But do you expect ticket prices never to go up?
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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #916 on: April 12, 2024, 03:19:33 pm »
I think one of the problems is that people look at the end result and not how we got there. The club has point blank refused to listen to the fan groups. This wasn't done on a whim it is the result of the fan groups being ignored.

It is akin to the way employers blame people who strike for the disruption it causes. Like striking removing the flags was a last resort. Yet it is the people forced to protest who get the blame.

If a boffin went to the Club and said I have a foolproof way of guaranteeing you better home results. I am sure the club would have its chequebook out in a flash. Well that is what the 12th man has done for decades. Yet instead of acknowledging how important the fan base is they are just used as an ATM.



Bingo. You are absolutely spot on. We can look forward to more shit atmospheres impacting results until the club smell the roses and realise that they need to give more back to working class supporters. It’s really that simple.

Considering massively increased revenues elsewhere, the multitude of channels to monetise the global fanbase, increased hospitality, etc … it’s time for a fundamental ticketing and food/beverages pricing review to deliver better value to the “12th man”. The club needs to play its part in making sure we feel valued rather than milking us for all we’re worth. I’m sick of it. They’ve enjoyed insane capital appreciation on the club. They’re being greedy on this. They can shove “this means more” up their fucking arse until they get this sorted. Fully in favour of no flags and walkout until they do. It’s about the principle. Not the 2% per se. Hope more supporters can try to understand this. It’s about protecting the working class match going supporter for the long term.
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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #917 on: April 12, 2024, 03:48:26 pm »
That was an awful performance and Atalanta’s tactics were perfect against us. There’s no way that we are a bad team but we just couldn’t cope.

I’m going to suggest that it was partially down to coaching and partially due to tiredness.

We have a way of winning games but it certainly isn’t down to playing under pressure when there’s little space.

If you watch all the good passing teams the receiving player will move into space just as the ball is being passed. It appears that this is coached into them. No matter how closely you are marked, if you move towards where the ball will be played you will get there before your marker as they have to react. The person playing the ball and the receiver need to be on the same wavelength. Then when the ball is received the next player in the chain needs to move etc.

Yesterday we were standing still and only appeared to react when the ball was played. That gives the person marking you time to follow you or to get there first.

Atalanta ensured that Mac Allister was well marked and it then appeared that nobody else was capable of controlling the game. Anyone ahead of the ball was closely marked and so a lot of our passes were sideways or backwards. Nobody was anticipating the pass.

Ok that’s a simplification but it does appear that if you press us then we are unable to move the ball forwards quickly. We were too static and too easy to mark.

Our marking of their players when they have the ball was very poor last night. Nobody was getting tight to the person who eventually scored which made it easy for them to hit the target.

Ive noticed this myself over the years, we hate to be pressed as a team, just cannot cope with or dont have the players who can deal with it or its not coached into us. Teams nearly always stand off us, but when they dont we are sure to give up a lot of chances and look v uncomfortable.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #918 on: April 12, 2024, 04:16:48 pm »
I assume you were at the match, in which case the irony of you having the luxury to attend matches in person but griping about a fucking 2% ticket hike.

Fuck me, what an utterly daft take.

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Re: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’
« Reply #919 on: April 12, 2024, 04:22:54 pm »
I have said the same to my son, think Leeds pressed us when they played us at Anfield and they really unsettled us. Arsenal done the same this season.
On paper the team that started was shocking and so it proved, we need our very best team now in every game.