Topic: Number of games we have to play at 12:30 kickoffs-Not just after internationals

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Absolute fucking joke

I'd love it if the club said 'nah. Fuck it. We'll forefit the game you gang of cheating c*nts'

[Stevo]

Not making a case for playing at 12:30 as I hate this kick off time, but isn’t our record at this time immediately after international breaks actually quite good? Is it as big a disadvantage as we think?

Playing later would be better and there should be a more even distribution of times between clubs but I’m not sure we suffer as much as is being made out?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Not making a case for playing at 12:30 as I hate this kick off time, but isn’t our record at this time immediately after international breaks actually quite good? Is it as big a disadvantage as we think?

Playing later would be better and there should be a more even distribution of times between clubs but I’m not sure we suffer as much as is being made out?

No it's not and many of our players are on long distance flights from around the world - Klopp says that most of these games, he's not seen the players for training before we have to travel.

Not the best preperation.

Obviously, we also get fucked up the arse by PGMOL in every game which makes it that much harder in the bentest league in history.l

[Barneylfc∗]

No it's not

It's not bad.

Since 17/18 there's been 10 games played at 12.30 after an international break
6 wins, 2 defeats (both to Abu Dhabi), 2 draws (v Manc United and Everton).

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It's not bad.

Since 17/18 there's been 10 games played at 12.30 after an international break
6 wins, 2 defeats (both to Abu Dhabi), 2 draws (v Manc United and Everton).

Not sure where you got your figures from, but under Klopp we had 6 games in a row that were 12:30 that we didn't win - to be fair I did mention International breaks - so edited the OP Title.

It's not just 12:30 kickoffs we get after an international break, it's also 12:30 kickoffs we get not after an international break and Liverpool have had more than anyone under Klopp

https://theathletic.com/4966707/2023/10/17/liverpool-kick-off-time-international-break/


Oh and after the last game - the 12:30 kick off that we have, we have another one on Saturday and another one after the next International break against City - making three in a row THIS SEASON ALONE

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-conversation-kick-off-problem-27907495

"In truth, the lunchtime slot has always been dreaded on the red side of Merseyside, with Liverpool drawing three and losing three of their six such fixtures last season"

[redgriffin73]

It's not bad.

Since 17/18 there's been 10 games played at 12.30 after an international break
6 wins, 2 defeats (both to Abu Dhabi), 2 draws (v Manc United and Everton).

With that record I can't wait to play Everton and City in the next two then!

[Barneylfc∗]

Not sure where you got your figures from

The internet.

Stevo asked

isn’t our record at this time immediately after international breaks actually quite good?

You responded

No it's not

Removing 'after internationals' makes it a different question completely.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The internet.

Stevo asked

You responded

Removing 'after internationals' makes it a different question completely.

Yep - you're quite right and I updated that post and the title.

[Barneylfc∗]

Yep - you're quite right and I updated that post and the title.

How many have we had in general compared to other clubs since Klopp took over? I don't subscribe to Atheletic so can't see what that article says.
Obviously after an international break, the numbers are a disgrace, but are they as bad when you include ones not after internationals?

I hate them, but if we have played a similar amount of games to other teams then I don't think we have much to complain about.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

How many have we had in general compared to other clubs since Klopp took over? I don't subscribe to Atheletic so can't see what that article says.
Obviously after an international break, the numbers are a disgrace, but are they as bad when you include ones not after internationals?

I hate them, but if we have played a similar amount of games to other teams then I don't think we have much to complain about.

Spurs were the only club anywhere near the number of 12:30 kickoffs - probably need a statto - but I think the figure last season was Liverpool 36 and Spurs 35?  (Was the other way around , cheers Stoa) - So Spurs 36, Liverpool 35.  But you can add the 3 to that figure for us - so Spurs 36, Liverpool 38.

If that's the case then Liverpool have jumped ahead.

Every article I've read says that we have played more 12:30 kickoffs than any other team and we have played more than double the number of 12:30 kickoffs after an international break than any other team - and in most cases 3 or 4 times as many.


Regarding the 12:30's after international breaks;

https://twitter.com/michael_reid11/status/1702614777137099236?s=20

The number was 12 for Liverpool + Everton (13) + Man City (14)


So 14


The next closest are;

Spurs 6
Chelsea 6
Man U 5
Man C 4 (+1 v us) = 5
Arsenal 3
Everton 3 (+1 v us) = 4
Watford 3

[stoa]

How many have we had in general compared to other clubs since Klopp took over? I don't subscribe to Atheletic so can't see what that article says.
Obviously after an international break, the numbers are a disgrace, but are they as bad when you include ones not after internationals?

I hate them, but if we have played a similar amount of games to other teams then I don't think we have much to complain about.

Pearce had an article in September before the Wolves game, where he said we had 35 kickoffs at 12.30 since Klopp took over. Only Spurs had more with 36. The article also said that points wise it's the worst kickoff time for Klopp. "Only" gets 1.71 points in those games compared to 2.43 points in games with his best kickoff time (5.30pm). His average at 12.30 does compare pretty well to other top managers as only Pip and Arteta are better than him. Cheaty McCheaterson gets 2.39 points per game at 12.30 which isn't really a surprise. Arteta is closer to Klopp with 1.77 points on average in that timeslot. Sadly, I couldn't find the numbers for how many times the other top teams had to play at 12.30 since Klopp took over.

[Crosby Nick]

I presume we’re on TV more than most teams in the league. So we’d probably be near the top of the list for Sunday 4pm/4.30 over the same period too?

But we do seem to get fucked over more than the other big teams for the early Saturday kick off. When it’s not after an international break or a tough European away I don’t mind it for certain away games. Can make for a less hostile atmosphere. But when it’s after international break, and with our increasing number of South Americans (plus African and Asian players with a lot of travel in recent years) it’s really shit for us.

[FlashingBlade]

Whys everyone bothered by the results..surely the big issue here is the reduced time for pre match bevvying ( and 'consequences' of all day and might post match)

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Whys everyone bothered by the results..surely the big issue here is the reduced time for pre match bevvying ( and 'consequences' of all day and might post match)

Yep - for the fans, it's the shittest kick off time there is

I live in Liverpool and even for me, getting up early, having to go to the boozer early, watch the match then be out all day, Sunday is going to be a write-off.

With it being the derby, there'll be plenty of narks in town and getting the bus or train home is always 'interesting' - decided I'm going to plump for a cab for a change.

[Gili Gulu]

I'd like to see the proportion of these 12.30 kick-offs that are away from home, because an awful lot of ours seem to be away which makes them worse.

[Craig67]

I think for me, there is a distinction between playing at 12.30 on Saturday after no mid week game and when there has been.

Don't get me wrong, genuinely do not like them as a supporter irrespective of mid week fixtures, but from a team preparation perspective there must be a difference.

We were regularly shafted after European mid week games. Then they changed that rule, but even last season, although I haven't checked, we seemed to be 12.30 quite regularly after mid week 'non-Europe' fixtures...... and now after all these crappy internationals.

No idea what the answer is though. Would probably need the PL clubs to decide against that slot, but that doesn't seem likely, especially from clubs that don't have many international players - they probably see it as an advantage. 

[Barneylfc∗]

I'd like to see the proportion of these 12.30 kick-offs that are away from home, because an awful lot of ours seem to be away which makes them worse.

5 of the 6 last season were away from home.

In the 10 I mentioned above that have come after an international break since 17/18, 7 of them have been away. Everton will make it 4 out of 11 at home. Abu Dhabi will make it 8 out of 12 away.

[Gili Gulu]

5 of the 6 last season were away from home.

In the 10 I mentioned above that have come after an international break since 17/18, 7 of them have been away. Everton will make it 4 out of 11 at home. Abu Dhabi will make it 8 out of 12 away.

I don't think TNT are deliberately choosing 12.30 away slots for us because they want use to lose.

But I think they get higher viewing figures if "neutral" fans think we might lose.
And TNT don't give any consideration to fairness and integrity of the competition.

The Everton game being at 12.30 is probably a good idea to reduce drinking before the game, given the deterioration in the atmosphere between the two sets of fans, so may well have been requested by the Police and possibly the clubs.

[Barneylfc∗]

5 of the 6 last season were away from home.

In the 10 I mentioned above that have come after an international break since 17/18, 7 of them have been away. Everton will make it 4 out of 11 at home. Abu Dhabi will make it 8 out of 12 away.

7 of the 12 will be

Abu Dhabi A
Manc United H
Spurs A
Everton H
Abu Dhabi A
Everton H
Abu Dhabi A

7 'big' games, 3 home, 4 away, with 3 aways to Abu Dhabi. Bit weird.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I don't think TNT are deliberately choosing 12.30 away slots for us because they want use to lose.

But I think they get higher viewing figures if "neutral" fans think we might lose.
And TNT don't give any consideration to fairness and integrity of the competition.

The Everton game being at 12.30 is probably a good idea to reduce drinking before the game, given the deterioration in the atmosphere between the two sets of fans, so may well have been requested by the Police and possibly the clubs.

It's the worst idea ever. Town is going to be crackers later on.

[Kloppage Time]

Saturday 12:30 kick offs are great if you win them as it puts pressure on rivals to catch up, I know I hate it when a rival has won an early kick off knowing the best we can hope for is to level the result.
I hate Sunday 12:30 kick offs but the reasoning is to give Europa league teams more prep time.
bottom line
stop fucking moaning!

[Barneylfc∗]

Saturday 12:30 kick offs are great if you win them as it puts pressure on rivals to catch up, I know I hate it when a rival has won an early kick off knowing the best we can hope for is to level the result.
I hate Sunday 12:30 kick offs but the reasoning is to give Europa league teams more prep time.
bottom line
stop fucking moaning!

Does that apply to Klopp too? He hates them probably more than any of us and has been very vocal about that in the past.

[Eeyore]

Klopp may not like it, the fans may not like it but we don't matter. The 12:30 kick offs are prime time in Asia so the club and it's sponsors like Standard Chartered will be delighted.

[Andy82lfc]

Not being funny but we've just been shown how PGMOL at absolute best, use bias, at worst are corrupt, there is no denying that audio and why they were so long in deciding to release it. That's even before we get into 20k trips to Abu fucking Dhabi. I mean you have to be naive to some length to believe that it was all just a massive coincidence along with the mumblings of "yeah, offside, goal, yeah offside, goal, what, no, yeah check, check - oh well, er, too late now" is all above board and normal.

Anyway, getting to the point of my rant, I honestly don't give a shit anymore about all this, it's clear there are many parts of the game that are well and truly fucked and it's only getting worse. It's just a game now of trying to enjoy the entertainment of the game and watch Klopp pull out miracles as he does most weeks.

Not saying people shouldn't be pissed off about the 12:30pm kick offs, I used to be as it's a joke, but just passed the point of caring at the moment.

[redbyrdz]

Pretty sure the derby and the united game have been early kick offs for quite a while. The reasoning was always to avoid aggro between drunk set of fans. It's only been the last few years that we had derbys at anything other than 12:30.

[Agent99]

Klopp loves the 12:30 time slot....

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/PnYeGrJhHX4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/PnYeGrJhHX4</a>

[Alf]

This Man City debacle, first & foremost Greater Manchester Police decided for safety reasons in 2015/16 that we'd kick off at Old Trafford 5:30 & 8:05pm opposed to 12:30 & 6pm. At the very least we should have pushed to kick off at 3pm, they televised Man City vs Leeds on the day of the coronation.

[Cafe De Paris]

I understand that this latest early Saturday KO is due to GMP requesting it. Thing is we had all this shit years ago when we played the utd mancs. Those games were always being played early at the request of police. I recall one game being played at 11:30. Try getting that one past Klopp. Then the TV realised the two biggest clubs going head to head needs to be played when everyone is at home not out shopping or picking the kids up.
So we’re getting effed over not only by the TV but also the police.
You wait for the presser on Thursday. The press will be salivating at what klopp is about to say on the early kick off.

[ScottScott]

Klopp may not like it, the fans may not like it but we don't matter. The 12:30 kick offs are prime time in Asia so the club and it's sponsors like Standard Chartered will be delighted.

Always a way to have a dig at the club 

[Eeyore]

Always a way to have a dig at the club 

What have I said that isn't correct. Of course the commercial department of the Club and it's Asian based sponsors will be delighted that LFC is being shown at primetime in Asia.

[Historical Fool]

What have I said that isn't correct. Of course the commercial department of the Club and it's Asian based sponsors will be delighted that LFC is being shown at primetime in Asia.

You said fans don’t like it. I’m sure the fans who are watching at Primetime in Asia like it very much …

[BassTunedToRed]

Klopp's early kick-offs in the league, if you want a full list.

(Times from WorldFootball.net).

[Barneylfc∗]

Klopp's early kick-offs in the league, if you want a full list.

(Times from WorldFootball.net).

I count 30 away and 13 at home 

21 wins, 9 losses, 13 draws

[duvva 💅]

Nothing to see here. All completely normal.

It’ll even itself out eventually by 2034

[Barneylfc∗]

Nothing to see here. All completely normal.

It’ll even itself out eventually by 2034

Our last 17 early kick offs have been between 17/10/20 and 16/09/23. Almost exactly 3 years.
So after Everton and Abu Dhabi, the next 17 early kick offs should take us up to November 2026.
We just need 17 home early kick offs in a row for it to even itself out.

[duvva 💅]

It’s amazing how being in plain sight can hide so much

[BassTunedToRed]

Nothing to see here. All completely normal.

It’ll even itself out eventually by 2034

This is what bugs me. I strongly doubt it's a deliberate conspiracy in an attempt to hamper LFC and boost others, they just want a well supported team for the TV matches (though there are other candidates for that). But unlike questionable refereeing decisions in the heat of the moment, repeatedly selecting LFC for 12:30 games is a deliberate decision and as such should be spread around as evenly as possible.

But it won't be.

[Eeyore]

The thing is that normally if something unfair was happening which it clearly is you would expect the club to complain.

The problem is that the club earns extra money every time we are on TV. Then you have the thing that the 12:30 slot is very good for building your fan base in the far East. It isn't just that you are on at primetime. You also have exclusivity unlike the Saturday 3pm and Sunday 2pm slots were you have multiple games being shown at the same time.

The club is targeting the far East to expand revenue. So they aren't going to complain about being shown so often especially when in the future it is likely that the club will be able to stream games directly to that fan base.

So it will be up to Klopp to speak out again.

[shank94]

when in the future it is likely that the club will be able to stream games directly to that fan base.

What does this mean? The far east has been watching Liverpool regardless of whether its the odd 7pm for them or the regular 4am ones and they very well understand the issues around 12.30 kick offs, so lets please stop dividing the fanbase at every given instant. Streaming Wolves vs Liverpool or Liverpool vs Everton isn't going to increase your fanbase in countries that do not watch football religiously, A Liverpool vs Man United game at 7pm would maybe draw friends of friends to a watchalong, it will always be the same loyal batch.

If you want to increase your fanbase in a country, you either need to sportswash like the WC in Qatar or play the Copa del fuckall in the Saudi like the Spanish do.

[Eeyore]

What does this mean? The far east has been watching Liverpool regardless of whether its the odd 7pm for them or the regular 4am ones and they very well understand the issues around 12.30 kick offs, so lets please stop dividing the fanbase at every given instant. Streaming Wolves vs Liverpool or Liverpool vs Everton isn't going to increase your fanbase in countries that do not watch football religiously, A Liverpool vs Man United game at 7pm would maybe draw friends of friends to a watchalong, it will always be the same loyal batch.

If you want to increase your fanbase in a country, you either need to sportswash like the WC in Qatar or play the Copa del fuckall in the Saudi like the Spanish do.

How is it dividing the fan base?

The more you are shown at primetime the more chance you have of capturing the heart of a neutral fan or the next generation of fans.

It is all about exposure. I mean look at how keen the club was to play the 39th game abroad or why teams routinely jet halfway around the world for preseason tours.

Exposure equals more TV money and crucially bigger commercial deals. The other thing is that the Club isn't going to complain about playing in the 12:30 slot especially when playing in the Europa League limits the number of times you can play on TV.

Sky get the majority of first picks with 19 going to the 16:30 Sunday. That slot usually gets the biggest game of the weekend. So if there is a top game then we aren't going to get that slot and you can only be picked for the 2pm slot five times a season.