Topic: Everton - The 777 Unflushables

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Forest fans protesting yesterday about the club wanting to move to a new shiny soulless bowl of a stadium, most comments on FB posts about it have fans of various clubs slagging off new stadiums as well. Seems to only be bitters that welcome one with open arms doesn't it, sole reason being just to try and have one over us because they think we are arsed, sad c*nts.

The owner must be itching to build some riverside flats.

[TepidT2O]

The owner must be itching to build some riverside flats.

they don’t own the land. It’s a long term lease from  the council which is due for renegotiation.

[Motty]

The owner must be itching to build some riverside flats.

Sounds like the council will be if Tepid is right. Just don't get why so many clubs are desperate to have new stadiums, especially when their PL places aren't secure.

[TepidT2O]

Sounds like the council will be if Tepid is right. Just don't get why so many clubs are desperate to have new stadiums, especially when their PL places aren't secure.

Personally, I think it’s just a negotiation tactic to try to keep the lease down. The council want £1m per year, Forest pay a quarter of that right now.  They should stay and expand the city ground. 

[only6times]

Moral High Ground FC? Surely not.

So Corrupt PL allowed them to boonswoggle the Covid losses, delayed the points deduction which certainly would have seen them relegated and are about to pay them a large tranche of TV money based in the efforts of clubs (maybe even six clubs) who play exciting, attacking football whereas they grind out boring wins.

School of Science my arse.

Domestic Science, cook the books.

[only6times]

Some barmpot on Twitter has called Pickford  "A generational talent".

[Motty]

Personally, I think it’s just a negotiation tactic to try to keep the lease down. The council want £1m per year, Forest pay a quarter of that right now.  They should stay and expand the city ground.

That would be the sensible course to take but some of these rich owners don't do sensible most of the time so wouldn't put it past him to go down that route to be honest

[TepidT2O]

Some barmpot on Twitter has called Pickford  "A generational talent".

How many other people in his generation have such little arms? They have a point

[slidez]

Talk of administration is just wishful thinking now.   If they had been taken over by 777, sure, but no 777 means they will sell whoever they can to clear immediate debts and to remove risk of more points deductions, then they will probably be bought by some minor member of an oil state or some US investment company thinking theyre getting them on the cheap as for a couple of hundred mill they might get the club and the stadium.  Neither type of buyer are likely to bad enough to sink them.

[red_Mark1980]

The blues are back boys, all the negativity of not winning for four months has gone.

[Swift417]

That 2 points for a repeat offence is a cheater's charter.

Why the hell should Forest reign in their spending now?
Just go hog wild and you'll only get another two points taken away.

Absolute madness.

Agree with this. If they had showed they were actively curbing spending and trying to get back in line then I’d say 2 points is reasonable. Pretty sure they nearly doubled their loss in the next review period (22/23) though so to my mind that deserves a bigger penalty.

I think the issue was all the noise around it has made the decision makers lose their nerve and buy into the “it’s the same period they’ve already been punished for” line.

I can’t see why say a Newcastle wouldn’t take an initial hit and a 2 point deduction every year to build a squad to compete. Then they can say they are a big club, inflate their sponsorships and get back within psr when they choose. 2 points is nothing for a champions league place which is surely their short term goal to consistently hit.

[12C]

Sounds like the council will be if Tepid is right. Just don't get why so many clubs are desperate to have new stadiums, especially when their PL places aren't secure.

Maybe a cash strapped council in one of the most deprived areas of the country looks at the money that Forest have splashed on crap players since promotion and thinks “hang on a moment, we are being short changed by this lot…”, and decides to try and recoup some of the money Forest cost the city in terms of policing, litter cleanups etc.
just a thought.

[Lisan Al Gaib]

Talk of administration is just wishful thinking now.   If they had been taken over by 777, sure, but no 777 means they will sell whoever they can to clear immediate debts and to remove risk of more points deductions, then they will probably be bought by some minor member of an oil state or some US investment company thinking theyre getting them on the cheap as for a couple of hundred mill they might get the club and the stadium.  Neither type of buyer are likely to bad enough to sink them.

They have about £400m in immediate debts don't they? Not sure their squad is worth anywhere near that.

[Red Beret]

Their debt is only getting worse and they're hocked to the hilt. The only assets they have left are their players, and they've not even paid for Beto yet. Selling their entire squad would barely make a dent in what the owe.

Given how transfers are typically structured, they're not really in a position to accept £70m paid over three years for a player when a club can offer them £40m cash up front.

[Peabee]

Their debt is only getting worse and they're hocked to the hilt. The only assets they have left are their players, and they've not even paid for Beto yet. Selling their entire squad would barely make a dent in what the owe.

Given how transfers are typically structured, they're not really in a position to accept £70m paid over three years for a player when a club can offer them £40m cash up front.

They could do that as the amounts owed to them for transfer fees is an asset in their books, so that debt could go to their creditors.

[Red Beret]

They could do that as the amounts owed to them for transfer fees is an asset in their books, so that debt could go to their creditors.

It depends how willing creditors are to wait for their money and how desperate Everton are for cash now. They're borrowing £20m a month just to keep the lights on, don't forget.

Will their debt continue to accrue interest  even if they're in administration? If so, the more they can pay off in the short term the better.

[Peabee]

It depends how willing creditors are to wait for their money and how desperate Everton are for cash now. They're borrowing £20m a month just to keep the lights on, don't forget.

Will their debt continue to accrue interest  even if they're in administration? If so, the more they can pay off in the short term the better.

If the debt was owed by MUFC, say, then the creditor is far more likely to get their money. They would probably rather have £70m paid over 3 years from United than a promise from Everton for £40m. If they go in admin, it's a pari passu distribution in order of priority of creditors until the assets are gone. Notably, shareholders are the lowest rank of priority, so Moshiri would not see much, if anything, returned to him, so it's clear why he's desperate to offload to 777.

Interest charges cease when in admin.

[LuverlyRita]

Their debt is only getting worse and they're hocked to the hilt. The only assets they have left are their players, and they've not even paid for Beto yet. Selling their entire squad would barely make a dent in what the owe.

Given how transfers are typically structured, they're not really in a position to accept £70m paid over three years for a player when a club can offer them £40m cash up front.

According to Swiss Ramble the sale of players might not be enough to cover the club’s losses and fund the stadium investment, so administration cannot be completely ruled out. He also said that given the riches available in England’s top flight, it takes a lot to get to such a stage.
Everton that 

[12C]

It depends how willing creditors are to wait for their money and how desperate Everton are for cash now. They're borrowing £20m a month just to keep the lights on, don't forget.

Will their debt continue to accrue interest  even if they're in administration? If so, the more they can pay off in the short term the better.

And that monthly £20m will be increasingly used to service the debt rather than pay running costs/wages, as each tranche of £20m has associated interest repayments, which are being covered in the next £20m loan.
Crazy spiral of debt

[thaddeus]

According to Swiss Ramble the sale of players might not be enough to cover the club’s losses and fund the stadium investment, so administration cannot be completely ruled out. He also said that given the riches available in England’s top flight, it takes a lot to get to such a stage.
Everton that 

Do you have a link, please?

He's right about the mess Everton have got themselves into being a real outlier.  There's been some mad splurges in the not too distant past (e.g. QPR) but they've generally burnt out pretty quickly.  Portsmouth and Bolton both accrued big debts by long-term overspending - still tiny compared to Everton's - but both were last in the Premier League well over a decade ago.

It's also not obvious where any of their higher value players would go.  I think Daniel Levy secretly loves preying on clubs that have overspent so he'll likely be after someone to add to his Richarlison, Brennan Johnson and Maddison trophies.  Branthwaite to Man U would be sensible as he's an overpriced English defender in a low-block team but they'd need to sell well first.  Pickers?  Onana?  Mykolenko?

[DonkeyWan]

According to Swiss Ramble the sale of players might not be enough to cover the club’s losses and fund the stadium investment, so administration cannot be completely ruled out. He also said that given the riches available in England’s top flight, it takes a lot to get to such a stage.
Everton that 

[thaddeus]

*snip*

Does that include the stadium costs?  If so it's not so bad.  If it doesn't though then they are awful.

[LuverlyRita]

Do you have a link, please?

Sadly not - his stuff is now behind a paywall. I'm on his mailing list so he sends out a summary of his articles which can be obtained in full if you subscribe.

[Schmidt]

I can't imagine any teams coming in for their players who won't be bargain hunting, even United will surely think twice about Branthwaite after being burned on Maguire.

[TepidT2O]

I like that Swiss ramble used the words “Worrying times” in the first sentence

[Peabee]

Does that include the stadium costs?  If so it's not so bad.  If it doesn't though then they are awful.

Stadium costs aren't P&L items, so they won't be part of the losses. Only interest, for example, would be in the P&L, but I think they're also capitalising interest now. They also have a separate company for the dev.

[So… Howard Philips]

Stadium costs aren't P&L items, so they won't be part of the losses. Only interest, for example, would be in the P&L, but I think they're also capitalising interest now. They also have a separate company for the dev.

Haven’t they got an adjourned PL hearing to try to get to the bottom of a potential scam around interest payments?

[courty61]

Haven’t they got an adjourned PL hearing to try to get to the bottom of a potential scam around interest payments?

They do

[So… Howard Philips]

They do

So despite the silver lining of their decent end to the season their remains a large, black financial cloud hanging over their heads.

[rafathegaffa83]

Richard Masters says the Premier League has been “very clear” with 777 Partners over the conditions it must meet to complete a takeover of Everton, and that observers can draw their “own conclusions” as to why the deal has yet to be approved.

Speaking to MPs as part of the process of the government’s football governance bill, the Premier League’s chief executive acknowledged that lengthy takeover deals create tension among supporters but said the Everton owner, Farhad Moshiri, still wanted to pursue a deal with the challenged investment company.

Asked by Damian Collins why the league had not rejected the 777 offer outright, amid uncertainty over the group’s finances and problems at its other clubs, Masters said his scope was limited. He said the league could approve a deal or leave it unapproved but could not reject it and that it was up the seller or proposed buyer to take a deal off the table or meet the league’s demands.

“Let me be clear about the Premier League’s role as regulator: it is to perform this test,” he said. “It’s not to decide who the current owner wants to sell the club to. That’s his decision and at the moment he wants to continue to have discussions with 777 about it.

“The Premier League is very clear the conditions that have to be met by 777 if it wishes to become owner of Everton. At the moment, because the takeover has not been confirmed, I’ll leave it to the committee [of MPs] to make its own conclusions as to where we are with that.”


More here: https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/may/14/premier-league-reiterates-very-clear-stance-on-777-partners-everton-takeover

[So… Howard Philips]

Richard Masters says the Premier League has been “very clear” with 777 Partners over the conditions it must meet to complete a takeover of Everton, and that observers can draw their “own conclusions” as to why the deal has yet to be approved.

Speaking to MPs as part of the process of the government’s football governance bill, the Premier League’s chief executive acknowledged that lengthy takeover deals create tension among supporters but said the Everton owner, Farhad Moshiri, still wanted to pursue a deal with the challenged investment company.

Asked by Damian Collins why the league had not rejected the 777 offer outright, amid uncertainty over the group’s finances and problems at its other clubs, Masters said his scope was limited. He said the league could approve a deal or leave it unapproved but could not reject it and that it was up the seller or proposed buyer to take a deal off the table or meet the league’s demands.

“Let me be clear about the Premier League’s role as regulator: it is to perform this test,” he said. “It’s not to decide who the current owner wants to sell the club to. That’s his decision and at the moment he wants to continue to have discussions with 777 about it.

“The Premier League is very clear the conditions that have to be met by 777 if it wishes to become owner of Everton. At the moment, because the takeover has not been confirmed, I’ll leave it to the committee [of MPs] to make its own conclusions as to where we are with that.”


More here: https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/may/14/premier-league-reiterates-very-clear-stance-on-777-partners-everton-takeover

Yet more evidence the Corrupt PL are trying to do Everton down whilst cleverly making Everton take responsibility for their own actions.

What a disgrace.

[SamLad]

Masters said his scope was limited. He said the league could approve a deal or leave it unapproved but could not reject it and that it was up the seller or proposed buyer to take a deal off the table or meet the league’s demands.

am I the only one who finds that ridiculous?  no wonder this shit drags on forever.

[rafathegaffa83]

am I the only one who finds that ridiculous?  no wonder this shit drags on forever.

Yeah that stood out to me as well

[redtel]

Yeah that stood out to me as well

I was under the impression that the PL stopped the sale of Newcastle to the Saudi’s first time around.

Only resurrected when BJ or his government applied pressure for the sale.

The PL didn’t leave it unapproved or did they?

[Peabee]

Haven’t they got an adjourned PL hearing to try to get to the bottom of a potential scam around interest payments?

Yeah the PL have said some of the interest costs capitalised aren't attributable to the stadium, so they can't be disallowed for PSR purposes. It wasn't considered by the commission as part of the second points deduction as the dispute couldn't be dealt with in time, so it's to be dealt with at a later date. That essentially means they could face two deductions next season? The outstanding PSR issue plus a potential administration.

[4pool]

Yeah the PL have said some of the interest costs capitalised aren't attributable to the stadium, so they can't be disallowed for PSR purposes. It wasn't considered by the commission as part of the second points deduction as the dispute couldn't be dealt with in time, so it's to be dealt with at a later date. That essentially means they could face two deductions next season? The outstanding PSR issue plus a potential administration.

They'll also fail the PSR test again. Potentially three point deductions.

[TepidT2O]

They'll also fail the PSR test again. Potentially three point deductions.

They might not do, it will be tight, but they have to sell so many players to raise cash that it will probably solve their PSR problem

[Mighty_Red]

am I the only one who finds that ridiculous?  no wonder this shit drags on forever.

Actually it does make sense - it means that the PL do not get into arguments with clubs over buyers and open themselves to litigation. It leaves the onus on the buy to fulfil all the requirements, just a shame those requirements have been fairly loose in years gone by.

[Brain Potter]

So it appears Moshiri is giving 777 partners more time to satisfy conditions and complete the sale.
There must be a reason he seems committed to selling to these. Offered more money?

[Hedley Lamarr]

So it appears Moshiri is giving 777 partners more time to satisfy conditions and complete the sale.
There must be a reason he seems committed to selling to these. Offered more money?

Or they’re the only show in town, despite what some blues say.