Author Topic: Man United - Manchester's Other Team  (Read 37189 times)

Offline shook

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #400 on: August 21, 2023, 05:43:19 pm »
Am I correct in saying that if United do not sell McTominay or Maguire (or both), then they are done for the transfer window?

Offline HardworkDedication

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #401 on: August 21, 2023, 05:49:16 pm »
Mason Greenwood and Manchester United: The U-turn – what happened and why

Adam Crafton Aug 21, 2023

In February 2022, less than a month into Richard Arnold’s tenure as Manchester United chief executive, he addressed an all-staff meeting from the club’s Old Trafford stadium.

The executive showed a video celebrating United’s on-pitch goals and success from years gone by before urging staff to stand on the “shoulders of the giants of this club and continue their legacy”.

“Being here and working with United is not a job,” Arnold said. “It is an incredible feeling.”

For Arnold, this past week must have felt anything but.

It has been a humbling and damaging time, as the club’s control of the Mason Greenwood situation veered wildly off course in the space of 72 hours. This story explains, for the first time, why United decided to bring Greenwood back and how the club ended up changing their minds, announcing on Monday he would not return to the first team.

It is told at times with the help of sources who asked to remain anonymous in order to protect their jobs due to the sensitivity and toxicity of the topic. Comments are turned off for legal reasons.

As of Wednesday of last week, United’s plan was to bring Greenwood back. On Thursday and Friday morning, club executives devoted time to justifying their chosen path to employees angry at the direction of travel, with some even contemplating resigning or strike action. The club’s sentiment trackers, which monitor supporter feeling online, began to plummet.

On Friday, The Athletic reported that the club’s preparations for Greenwood’s return also included an assessment of the expected sentiment of external figures, listing individual football pundits, journalists and politicians and stating whether they would be for or against Greenwood’s reintegration.

The planning divided these people into categories to the effect of “supportive”, “open-minded” or “hostile”, and the club’s document listed a series of domestic abuse charities assumed to be “hostile”.

By Friday late afternoon, a backlash across season-ticket holders, fans, supporters’ groups, members of parliament and even charities that support female victims of abuse had combined to force a rethink.

That same evening, United’s most senior decision-makers engaged in crisis meetings. Very quickly, despite a plan for reintegration that had gone through more than a dozen iterations, the only questions that remained centred on the next steps as United weighed up an exit strategy.

They debated whether to loan out or sell Greenwood, or attempt to cut ties with the 21-year-old altogether — though this would present legal challenges given the club do not consider, following the findings of an internal investigation, that they have grounds to terminate his contract. In the end, the club confirmed on Monday that they would work with the player to continue his career elsewhere and the club say they do not expect an eventuality where a loan move leads to the player representing United again in the future.

A loan move away from the club would allow United to retain commercial control of a footballer who, before his arrest in January 2022, was widely deemed to be the best young forward in English football. This would either be with a view to selling Greenwood further down the line if he can restore his value on the field, or hypothetically, to one day bring him back to Old Trafford, but the club insist they do not expect this to happen.

Talks culminated in a U-turn as the public pressure surrounding the decision became intolerable for some of the club’s most senior executives. United declined to comment when asked by The Athletic whether the final decision has been made based on public backlash or because they came to reflect that their initial decision communicated by Arnold to the executive leadership was misguided.

United would have been wary of issuing a statement on Saturday because the men’s first team had a Premier League fixture against Tottenham Hotspur, while Sunday morning and early afternoon was ruled out so as not to deflect attention from the Women’s World Cup final between England and Spain — featuring Manchester United players Mary Earps, Ella Toone and Katie Zelem.

United may also have been wary of delaying their statement beyond Monday afternoon given the topic was increasingly likely to be discussed on Sky Sports’ flagship show Monday Night Football. United were aware that influential pundit and former United captain Gary Neville was opposed to the decision.

Manchester United said on Monday afternoon: “All those involved, including Mason, recognise the difficulties with him recommencing his career at Manchester United. It has therefore been mutually agreed that it would be most appropriate for him to do so away from Old Trafford, and we will now work with Mason to achieve that outcome.”

While the nature of the cases are very different, comparisons will be made between the manner in which United, under the Glazer family, also secretly planned to join the European Super League in April 2021, only to U-turn on the outcome amid public outcry.

It seems it has happened again with Mason Greenwood.

Greenwood was arrested on January 30, 2022, after graphic audio and images emerged on social media — just 48 hours before Arnold succeeded Ed Woodward in the role of chief executive.

He has not played for United since but remains under contract until 2025, with the club having the option to extend his deal — worth around £75,000 a week — for a further year. United have continued to pay Greenwood since his last match for the club on January 22, 2022.

Last October, the player was charged with attempted rape, controlling and coercive behaviour and assault occasioning actual bodily harm. Greenwood denied all the charges and they were dropped in February, with the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) saying that “a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction”.

After the criminal case ended, United stated the club would “conduct its own process before determining next steps”. The United process was led by chief executive Arnold, assisted by a panel headed up by the club’s legal counsel Patrick Stewart, communications chief Ellie Norman, football director John Murtough and the chief operating officer, Collette Roche. Following this investigation, United’s view became that Greenwood should return.

The club has previously said it is limited in what it can say beyond “partial evidence” referred to in previous club statements — based on the lifelong anonymity granted to those who complain of certain sexual offences under UK law, which is also why comments are off on some of our articles — but at no point before Monday had United previously provided any substantial reasons, outside of the public domain, for why they initially planned to bring back Greenwood. Throughout this process, The Athletic has repeatedly requested any further background or comment from United on this matter and on Monday afternoon, the club explained their thinking.

United’s inquiries, the club say, lasted five months as they sought to gain a broader understanding of the audio and images that brought this case into the public domain. United spoke with Greenwood during the enquiries but did not have direct contact with the complainant. Instead, they spoke with her mother, with the knowledge of the complainant. The club say that both the complainant and her mother received the opportunity to both comment on or correct the club’s factual findings, but the club says she did not choose to do so.

At a hearing at Manchester & Salford Magistrates’ Court on October 17, 2022, the court had heard that the complainant had made allegations against Greenwood following an ABE (achieving best evidence) interview — a video-recorded interview with a vulnerable or intimidated witness where the recording is intended to be played as evidence in court at a later date — in January of that year.  She then provided a retraction statement in April 2022, meaning she had withdrawn her support from the investigation.

The club also say they received explanations for the audio and video that were posted online and say they are satisfied that Greenwood did not physically abuse the complainant. While the club say these explanations were not contested by the complainant’s family, there has not been an explanation for what appeared to be very damning images and audio to the general public. The club also say they became satisfied that the complainant, based on conversations with her mother, had not been subjected to coercive control by Greenwood. The controlling and coercive charge, which he denied and was later dropped, alleged that Greenwood had made threatening and derogatory comments towards the complainant and accessed and monitored the complainant’s social media accounts.

In a statement, Arnold said on Monday: “While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with.”

Greenwood said: “Today’s decision has been part of a collaborative process between Manchester United, my family and me. The best decision for us all is for me to continue my football career away from Old Trafford, where my presence will not be a distraction for the club.”

United also concluded that they did not see grounds to terminate Greenwood’s contract, a position which remains today.

In a statement issued on United’s website on Monday, Greenwood said: “I want to start by saying I understand that people will judge me because of what they have seen and heard on social media and I know people will think the worst.

“I was brought up to know that violence or abuse in any relationship is wrong, I did not do the things I was accused of, and in February I was cleared of all charges. However, I fully accept I made mistakes… and I take my share of responsibility for the situations which led to the social media post.”

The plan to bring back Greenwood
At 9am on Wednesday, August 16, The Athletic wrote to United to inform the club of our intention to report that Arnold had told the club’s executive leadership in the first week of August that United intended to bring Greenwood back into the first-team squad.

It was also put to United that Arnold had intended to record a video to explain the decision to bring Greenwood back to supporters and staff. United’s men’s team manager, Erik ten Hag, and football director John Murtough — who is responsible for the men’s team, women’s team and academy — were both supportive of Greenwood’s return. Sources at the club, who would stay anonymous to protect their positions, had also indicated that some United employees felt a sense of “guilt and shame” because of the plans.

In response, United sent out an all-staff email, a statement on their club website and messaged the same comment to The Athletic.

The 224-word statement did not deny that Arnold had communicated the plan for Greenwood’s return or any of the details The Athletic intended to report. The club insisted a “decision has not yet been made”, but also appeared to set the scene for a return by referring to the club’s “responsibilities to Mason as an employee, as a young person who has been with the club since the age of seven, and as a new father with a partner”. United also said they “understand the strong opinions it has provoked based on the partial evidence in the public domain”.

United’s unusual response — the club statement published at 15.44 BST on Wednesday after England’s women’s team had beaten Australia in the World Cup semi-final — appeared to illustrate the panic that had enveloped the club’s decision-makers.

United had been modelling plans for Greenwood’s return for quite some time (the planning documents were revised more than a dozen times) and the response from United revealed a club attempting to seize back control of the narrative.

Yet United were soon in the midst of a public relations crisis, both internally and externally.

The public and private backlash
Some employees felt appalled by the club’s plans around Greenwood and United executives held multiple intense meetings with staff. Some had discussed resigning in the event United brought Greenwood back. Others started to research how to go on strike.

The crisis meetings involved United executives seeking to justify a return for Greenwood to staff, while also claiming no final decision had been made, which reiterates how determined United’s executive had become to see through the plan. At that stage, United would only tell The Athletic and staff that the evidence available to the public was “partial” and did not explain the reasons cited above for why they wished to bring the player back.

Staff members were questioning how they were supposed to justify a decision to bring Greenwood back to their friends and families. While it will always be the case that disgruntled employees speak to the media more often than satisfied employees, the scale of dissatisfaction had now hit home. “The vast majority of people don’t think he should play for the club again,” said one staff member, who also considered their own position. When The Athletic reported on those considering a strike, multiple employees contacted this publication discreetly to say they would also join if one materialised.

Prominent United supporters’ groups, including the Manchester United Supporters Trust, Manchester United Women’s Supporter’s Club, and the Rainbow Devils, each sent out surveys to their members. The Athletic’s own survey, published on Saturday, was narrower than United anticipated, with only 58 per cent of responders saying Greenwood should not return.

Fans sent impassioned emails to Arnold on the topic, some of which have also been posted on social media. The club responded to the emails by telling supporters that United “are extremely mindful of their views” but added that the club “also believe that our decision in this case should be based primarily on the findings of our investigation”.

On Thursday, August 17, the British television presenter Rachel Riley warned she would not continue to support the club, which made headlines across the British media. It became a story that not only concerned the back pages, but also serious discussion shows on television, such as the BBC’s flagship evening discussion programme Newsnight.

The club’s preparations had anticipated a negative response in some quarters after Greenwood’s return was announced, but they appeared incapable of dousing the flames engulfing their plot when details emerged outside of their own control and framing.

The decision to delay the announcement
United’s grip of the situation slipped from the moment the club decided to delay the announcement of Greenwood’s return. Arnold, during an executive leadership meeting on August 1, had laid out a plan for an announcement on Friday, August 4. On July 30, reporters who covered United on their pre-season tour of the United States were also told to expect an unspecified verdict on Greenwood before United’s Premier League opener at home to Wolves on Monday, August 14.

The dates of Wednesday, August 3 and Thursday, August 4 had been pencilled in for United’s executives to contact key stakeholders — including sponsors, the club’s fan advisory board and the club’s women’s team — of the decision. The problem, however, was that key members of United’s women’s team, including captain Zelem, goalkeeper Earps and striker Toone, remained in Australia competing for England at the World Cup and it was felt inappropriate to disrupt their tournament.

In recent months, United executives have at times used different words when explaining their intentions with regards to the Greenwood process and the proposed involvement of the women’s team. The word “consult” has been used, but so have words such as “engagement”. The semantics of this became more significant when, on August 11, The Guardian reported a decision had been delayed to “consult World Cup players”.

United insist their plan was never to delegate the decision-making to their female players but, rather, they did wish to give the team prior notice and the opportunity for feedback. If such feedback had proved overwhelmingly negative, then United may have been forced into re-thinking their decision, but the intention essentially revolved around delivering Arnold’s decision and United would have told stakeholders it had followed an objective fact-finding process.

The women’s team did include players who were fiercely opposed to Greenwood’s return, but that sentiment was not overwhelming. It is also the reality of the more modest pay in the women’s game that some female players worried about their long-term prospects at the club in the event they kicked up too much of a fuss.

United’s sponsors, although anxious about United’s impending judgment on Greenwood, did not become a determining factor either. A senior source from one company who endorse United felt, regardless of their personal views, it was inappropriate for a partner to involve themselves in matters between an employee and its employers. They also feared it could set a precedent to become involved in other cases where ethics come into view at other organisations they sponsor.

But, following the Guardian report, United’s female players found themselves the victims of social media abuse on the eve of England’s World Cup quarter-final against Colombia. In response to posts from United’s official women’s account about the game, which England won 2-1, users petitioned Zelem, Earps and Toone to allow Greenwood’s return. The messages were seen by players and The Athletic has also been told that some of the posts were more threatening, to the extent one agent has considered enlisting cybersecurity support for his client.

Also on August 11, a new account sprang up on Twitter, named Female Fans Against Greenwood’s Return. This group of Manchester United supporters told The Athletic they were preparing a series of protests to make it clear they do not want Mason Greenwood to be reintegrated into the club’s plans.

The fans, who are all regular Old Trafford match-goers, made their feelings clear outside the stadium before United’s opening game of the season against Wolves.

A banner, in United’s colours, read: “Female Fans Demand No Greenwood Return – End Violence Against Women.”

All of a sudden, the vacuum that had been created by the delay to the August 4 announcement had been filled by stories of exasperated female supporters and the abuse of United’s women’s players online.

Those ‘hostile’ to the decision
United’s plan to bring Greenwood back, though, remained intact and dates before September’s international break were pencilled in for the announcement. This would have allowed the women’s World Cup to finish and afford United’s women’s players time after the final before the club explained the decision.

On Thursday, August 17, the charity Women’s Aid wrote directly to United to express their concerns. They received a phone call from the club on Friday lunchtime, with both sides feeling the conversation was constructive on the issue of abuse and the education of players.

Just hours later, The Athletic reported further details which confirmed the extent of the club’s planning around Greenwood’s return. These included the severity of internal dissent, that a series of domestic abuse charities were assumed to be “hostile” to the decision and how the club’s internal process had not engaged with any charities specialised in violence against women.

Women’s Aid condemned United publicly on social media, just hours after their phone call. Their tweet read: “‘Hostile’ is an inappropriate way to describe domestic & sexual abuse charities in stakeholder mapping, but especially in this case.”

Women’s Aid staff had been told by fans who protested against Greenwood’s return at Old Trafford on Monday, August 14 that supporters of all ages approached them to thank them, with some saying this situation has triggered difficult memories for them of abuse they had personally encountered.

By Friday evening, that line could no longer hold. The club had been plunged into a situation the decision-makers now deemed intolerable. Arnold began to recognise that, as the man who would make the final call, this could become so big that it defined his career as well as his reign.

British members of parliament lined up to criticise United. Andrew Western, the Labour MP for Stretford and Urmston (whose constituency covers Old Trafford), said: “Really disappointed at how United have handled this. They should be focused on making the correct decision, speaking up in support of victims of domestic abuse and sexual assault and acting with integrity. The club must realise this isn’t a PR crisis, it’s about doing what’s right.”

On Friday evening, United’s most senior decision-makers held crisis meetings and the club decided it could no longer proceed with a plan to reintegrate Greenwood into the first team.

Perhaps there was never an ideal time to bring him back
United insist the club believed it acted in the interests of the welfare of both Greenwood and the complainant, but there remained plenty of people within the club who found it implausible that Greenwood’s talent and the porous state of United’s forward options could not have contributed, at the very least subliminally, to their considerations.

In Wednesday’s statement, the club said they retained a duty of care to an employee under contract and a man who had been on the club’s books since the age of seven. That sentiment was repeated on Monday, as United say they will work with Greenwood to find him a club to continue his career. The club also says it will seek to reinforce the education and welfare support provided to encourage healthy relationships and behaviours.

If United truly believed they made the right decision to bring him back, it was notable that the leaders of the club had neither the willingness nor the requisite trust of stakeholders to truly come out and argue their point. Arnold’s planned video was not published. It was not a dissimilar outcome to the case of the European Super League plans, when United were among the clubs who found themselves utterly incapable of articulating their position and instead found themselves consumed by critics who filled the vacuum. Essentially, United have been pulled away from a decision they appeared to want to make.

Amid the rancour, it has been notable throughout this process that Arnold has been placed front and centre. This has left staff to wonder whether the club feared that a public-facing role for the club’s unpopular owners, the Glazer family, might have poured extra toxicity on the attempts to bring Greenwood back. Club sources, however, say Arnold wished to take personal responsibility and shield less-publicly-known colleagues on the investigation panel from the heat of the fallout.

In hindsight, United executives may reflect that a Greenwood return was simply never appropriate. Or they may wonder whether perceptions of the internal process may have been helped if United had hired an external barrister, for example, to run the inquiry, rather than delegating the task to employees who may be perceived to have a vested interest in certain outcomes.

United’s repeated delays in both making a decision and announcing a decision also contributed to creating an environment where their planning could leak out of the club.

At different times, United found reasons not to push ahead. To announce the decision before the club’s pre-season tour of the United States could easily have been perceived as a major risk when United’s trips west are driven by commercial considerations. The women’s World Cup then provided another temporary get-out.

On Monday, Arnold said: “Timings have also been influenced by my desire to minimise the impact of the investigation on our men’s and women’s teams, as well as our Lionesses. I acknowledge that this gave more time for speculation, but the alternative would have been to compromise due process or create untimely disruption.”

Some within the club perceive this as representative of United under the Glazer family, where decisions tend to be dithered upon. Others argue it was simply a reflection of how intensely United’s leaders wrestled with their decision.

But perhaps, above all, those delays were revealing in themselves, indicating there was never an ideal time to bring back a man whose public image had been so unpalatably damaged.

https://theathletic.com/4790552/2023/08/21/greenwood-man-united-u-turn/


Excellent journalism by Adam Crafton.

Offline jacobs chains

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #402 on: August 21, 2023, 06:06:15 pm »
Based on reporting they wanted to bring him back in to the first team and it looks like they only backed down after the latest bad PR so it's hard to have any sympathy for them.

I know it'll never be put out there, but it'd be interesting to know what alternative evidence there is they claim to have or what Greenwood thinks were mistakes he made (getting caught would be my guess)

I think everyone in Manchester knows why the case collapsed, including United, but it would have been hearsay. The new evidence is most likely a convenient fallacy to hide behind. United's statement will have been going back and forth between the lawyers, probably for longer than we will ever know.   

Offline rhysd

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #403 on: August 21, 2023, 06:11:57 pm »
So do they sell him or does his contract get paid up and he's released?
20 and 7

Offline CornerFlag

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #404 on: August 21, 2023, 06:29:01 pm »
Really good article and timeline of the whole process from Adam Crafton. What would be the reasoning for Greenwood to be integrated back into the United set-up from that? Would theyvtry and play the "Nothing Happened" card, the "We Can Rehabilitate Him" card, what?

Just absolutely messed up. And that statement by Greenwood was a fucking lie too. Charges were dropped, the c*nt wasn't found to be innocent.
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Offline Wghennessy

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #405 on: August 21, 2023, 06:38:36 pm »
I don't think they can, I saw a person who works in sports law on tv the other week and he stated because Greenwood was never charged never mind found guilty means if they did he could sue them for breach of contract or something.

He was charged.

Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #406 on: August 21, 2023, 06:39:34 pm »
That statement from United was vile. Pretty much defended him but also due to outside pressure are having to let him go. Sums up that club perfectly.

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #407 on: August 21, 2023, 06:48:49 pm »
It's almost as if they are blaming the victim herself. Greenwood also has not been proven innocent, the charges were dropped due to circumstances people saw the photographs and heard the tape. If they are saying he was "innocent" do they think it was her fault instead, that she made him do it? Just incredibly insensitive how they have worded the statement it's planned to make them look as if they have done everything they can, but everyone knows the mess they have made of this. It makes you desapir.
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Offline HomesickRed

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #408 on: August 21, 2023, 06:50:37 pm »
So do they sell him or does his contract get paid up and he's released?

I don't think anyone in this country is going to buy him.
Don't forget, this is a fella who already had a bad reputation even before this stuff happened.
He's toxic.
Maybe he could be sold abroad but most likely, I could see him quietly winding down his contract until 2025 and collecting his £75k a week. Not bad eh?
Then, if the dust has settled, he may move on possibly. . . . . or maybe United might revisit the possibility of a new contract then?

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #409 on: August 21, 2023, 06:54:11 pm »
Really good article from The Athletic, that.

Worth remembering (as mentioned in the article) that the prick of a manager they've got on the sidelines was happy to allow a domestic abuser & potential rapist back in his side.

United managers have a history of this...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/02/14/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-not-fit-lead-manchester-united-says-woman/

Offline HomesickRed

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #410 on: August 21, 2023, 06:55:47 pm »
It's almost as if they are blaming the victim herself. Greenwood also has not been proven innocent, the charges were dropped due to circumstances people saw the photographs and heard the tape. If they are saying he was "innocent" do they think it was her fault instead, that she made him do it? Just incredibly insensitive how they have worded the statement it's planned to make them look as if they have done everything they can, but everyone knows the mess they have made of this. It makes you desapir.

Yep. Horrible attitude displayed in that statement.
Is it a case of this decision being made reluctantly, and protecting their investment to the last, in case there is a transfer fee to be had?
So spin the lie that he is 'innocent'.

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #411 on: August 21, 2023, 07:17:56 pm »
Mason Greenwood and Manchester United: The U-turn – what happened and why

Adam Crafton Aug 21, 2023

Thanks for posting this, really good read.
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Offline Circa1892

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #412 on: August 21, 2023, 07:53:05 pm »
That statement from United was vile. Pretty much defended him but also due to outside pressure are having to let him go. Sums up that club perfectly.

Their CEO also said he had concluded he’d not done it.

Who the fuck is he to conclude that. Absolute fucking scum that lot.

Offline Reflexivity

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #413 on: August 21, 2023, 07:57:27 pm »
"United were aware that influential pundit and former United captain Gary Neville was opposed to the decision."

He can suss the optics, remember walking to court in solidarity 10 years ago,

 Rebel Rebel, how could they know?

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #414 on: August 21, 2023, 08:05:59 pm »
Really good article that and it sums up what a toxic Club United has become. They protected Greenwood and do not come out of this with any good standing. Everyone heard those recordings and saw the pictures, he and United can't gaslight people into forgetting them.

I’ve plenty links to the clubs playing and backroom staff as many on here know thank you very much. Fair enough, I admire your optimism. But you’re absolute ostriches if you think this squad, even with 2 or 3 new, “cut price” players with potential get us anywhere close

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #415 on: August 21, 2023, 08:07:01 pm »
Their CEO also said he had concluded he’d not done it.

Who the fuck is he to conclude that. Absolute fucking scum that lot.

From an employment law perspective, the CEO would have to make a decision based on the balance of probabilities. Legally given he had an explanation from Greenwood and nothing to the contrary, I am not sure what else he could do. I am sure Greenwood's legal team would have come up with an explanation for the audio tape and images.

From a moral perspective, it stinks to high heaven. As a father of two daughters, the bit I don't understand is the reaction of the family.
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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #416 on: August 21, 2023, 08:07:02 pm »
Only decision they could make however as others have said disgusting statements from both the club and the horrible twat.

Rotten club. Rotten to the core and have been for decades. WRONG UNS FC. 

Offline Livbes

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #417 on: August 21, 2023, 08:09:31 pm »
From an employment law perspective, the CEO would have to make a decision based on the balance of probabilities. Legally given he had an explanation from Greenwood and nothing to the contrary, I am not sure what else he could do. I am sure Greenwood's legal team would have come up with an explanation for the audio tape and images.

From a moral perspective, it stinks to high heaven. As a father of two daughters, the bit I don't understand is the reaction of the family.

Money, mate. Corrupts plenty, especially if they’re a low income, struggling family. Like winning the lottery.

Offline CornerFlag

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #418 on: August 21, 2023, 08:11:59 pm »
From an employment law perspective, the CEO would have to make a decision based on the balance of probabilities. Legally given he had an explanation from Greenwood and nothing to the contrary, I am not sure what else he could do. I am sure Greenwood's legal team would have come up with an explanation for the audio tape and images.

From a moral perspective, it stinks to high heaven. As a father of two daughters, the bit I don't understand is the family's reaction.
Absolutely stinks to high heaven.  For the family, I wouldn't even know where to start, you'd hope they want to abide by their daughter's wishes and then hope that there's nothing more sinister/financial behind it.
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Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #419 on: August 21, 2023, 08:35:34 pm »
I can only see the Saudis picking him up, and in that case, it would be a shame.
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
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In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #420 on: August 21, 2023, 08:49:05 pm »
I can’t see another English club touching him, even those shameless enough to consider it. Wonder where he ends up.

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #421 on: August 21, 2023, 08:57:23 pm »
I can’t see another English club touching him, even those shameless enough to consider it. Wonder where he ends up.

Saudi I would guess, they'd only be too glad to take him.  ::)
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Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #422 on: August 21, 2023, 09:30:25 pm »
Saudi I would guess, they'd only be too glad to take him.  ::)
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Offline MBL?

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #423 on: August 21, 2023, 09:47:16 pm »
It's a shame this scumbag is overshadowing how shite they are.

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #424 on: August 21, 2023, 09:51:44 pm »
It's a shame this scumbag is overshadowing how shite they are.
They really are, aren't they?
I reckon they looked better when Ole was at the wheel.
They fluked top 4 last season because us and a few others were not on it.

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #425 on: August 21, 2023, 10:04:34 pm »
I don't think anyone in this country is going to buy him.
Don't forget, this is a fella who already had a bad reputation even before this stuff happened.
He's toxic.
Maybe he could be sold abroad but most likely, I could see him quietly winding down his contract until 2025 and collecting his £75k a week. Not bad eh?
Then, if the dust has settled, he may move on possibly. . . . . or maybe United might revisit the possibility of a new contract then?
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Offline norecat

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #426 on: August 21, 2023, 10:08:08 pm »
The statement from both parties are shameful. It is disingenuous for Greenwood to say he was cleared of all charges. The United statement is nonsense. As the Athletic said they were planning to bring Greenwood back to the squad. The United statement is also deciding he is innocent isn't that for a court of law to decide. Also they haven't said what's happening with him other than he won't line out for United again. A piss poor statement if ever I saw one.

I keep hearing he made a mistake in relation to his actions and the audio. A mistake is not weighing a chicken correctly and cooking it for the wrong amount of time. He didn't make a mistake. His actions were sinister and deliberate. He's a bad 'un.

Offline rushyman

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #427 on: August 21, 2023, 10:57:53 pm »
'Based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged'

Manchester United everyone
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Offline MBL?

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #428 on: August 21, 2023, 11:00:39 pm »
They really are, aren't they?
I reckon they looked better when Ole was at the wheel.
They fluked top 4 last season because us and a few others were not on it.
They certainly look around ole level at the moment. They really need that new lad upfront to smash it because they are shite all over from what I've seen.

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #429 on: August 22, 2023, 12:44:03 am »
They are shiting themselves about Mount and rightly so. Can't believe so many on here wanted him.

We need to let them get gravenberch as well. He just doesn't seem right for us as far as I can see.

Offline harleydanger

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #430 on: August 22, 2023, 12:55:21 am »
Usual cycle is

1: New manager: We’re back baby, we’re back

2: New Manager: spends 150m in one window.

3: New Manager performs exactly like the last one: He needs time to embed his ideas

4: New Manager Starts to underperform last manager: stats of Fergies first 50 games compared to the new managers are posted on Red Cafe, we must give him time <TEN HAG IS HERE>

5: New Manager wins in the last minute over two two legs against Grasshoppers in the Europa last 64: image of united ‘legend’ at the game making a fist posted on Red Cafe

6: New Manager looses next round to FC Coppenhagen 5-3 on aggregate: European refs are bent

7: New manager finishes season in 6th: The club needs to start backing the manager with spending!

Repeat steps 2-6 for two seasons then begin from step 1 again.
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Offline norecat

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #431 on: August 22, 2023, 01:28:34 am »
Hard to believe that it's 10 years since United won the league. They are on their 5th full time manager in that time. Quite funny when you consider Ferguson's "stand by your manager" comments in his goodbye spiel. They have spent over 1 billion with four cups and some top four finishes to show for their extravegant outlay. I think ETH is gone next summer unless he wins something or gets 2/3 in the league. We are so lucky to have JK.

Offline coolbyrne

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #432 on: August 22, 2023, 02:51:20 am »
That statement from United was vile. Pretty much defended him but also due to outside pressure are having to let him go. Sums up that club perfectly.

Quote
In a statement, Arnold said on Monday: “While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with.”

[snip]

[...] but added that the club “also believe that our decision in this case should be based primarily on the findings of our investigation”.

So... you told everyone your decision would be based on your findings, you found him 'innocent', but you still broke ties with him? Yeah, that makes total sense.

For the record, I'm not saying he was 'innocent', quite the contrary. But the minute the club found they couldn't have their cake and eat it, too, they made sure to quickly backtrack. It wasn't the fact he might have been guilty that was the problem for them- it was finding a way to still profit from the contract. When they found they couldn't do that because of public outcry, only then was Greenwood cut loose. I bet they're grinding their fucking teeth at the fact they're going to have to pay him his salary for another year and a half. Ha fucking ha.
Oh, these sour times.

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Offline JovaJova

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #433 on: August 22, 2023, 06:00:19 am »
That statement from the CEO is a sackable offence and it should take the whole board of directors down with it. Almost like it was written by a child, rather than by the legal team of a very high profile public company. Astonished this got through their board and this is want they went with as the public statement. It does however give you another indication of why their team is in a seemingly never ending mess. The leadership appears to be completely incompetent and not fit for purpose.
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Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #434 on: August 22, 2023, 07:19:49 am »
'Based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged'

Manchester United everyone
Why did they even feel the need to say that?

Just make it a short press release saying Mason Greenwood will not play for United again, and apologize for having considered it.
That's it.

Leave the other shite out of it.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 07:21:31 am by the_red_pill »
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline Musketeer Gripweed

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #435 on: August 22, 2023, 07:37:25 am »
My take is, they had to cut ties, and they knew it, but they also saw him as a sellable asset and tried to sugar coat the whole episode so all parties could come out of it and not look bad. They failed miserably. They probably know that as well.

At the end of the day, it's all about the money. Turns my stomach.

Offline Redbonnie

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #436 on: August 22, 2023, 07:38:24 am »
Why did they even feel the need to say that?

Just make it a short press release saying Mason Greenwood will not play for United again, and apologize for having considered it.
That's it.

Leave the other shite out of it.

Depressing this. United have set themselves up as qualified to pass judgment on the veracity of allegations of attempted rape and domestic violence. If their investigation concluded he was guilty would they have thought it appropriate to publish that fact?. No they wouldn’t but they have happily discredited the victim because they know she is in this creeps thrall and there will be no consequences.

The most chilling part about the audio to me was “you know what you will get” . Worried for her safety when he has her alone and is blaming her for why he’s playing in the arse end of nowhere. What did united think she was going to get …a new handbag?


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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #437 on: August 22, 2023, 07:47:40 am »
Hard to believe that it's 10 years since United won the league. They are on their 5th full time manager in that time. Quite funny when you consider Ferguson's "stand by your manager" comments in his goodbye spiel. They have spent over 1 billion with four cups and some top four finishes to show for their extravegant outlay. I think ETH is gone next summer unless he wins something or gets 2/3 in the league. We are so lucky to have JK.
it's not hard to believe at all, they have had two periods in the history of football where they have been good, under Busby and Ferguson, outside of those two periods they have been a middle of the road club with periods of total mediocrity.

I've said it before but only one manager, aside from Busby and Ferguson, have ever won the league for the club.

They are back where they usually are for me, a return to the norm
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline lamonti

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #438 on: August 22, 2023, 07:50:48 am »
As much as I don't like Manchester United this is the correct decision not to keep him on.

We can be mealy-mouthed about their statement, but the right decision was made.

I'd have more respect for their decision if they admitted he had done something wrong and said "Utd believe he should be rehabilitated (which Utd will massively contribute to) and continue to play football for Utd."

As it stands all they've done is equivocate about what he did or didn't do but only decided to not play him because they fear people will say mean things about them, and then still try to sell him to get their money back.

If they think he shouldn't play for them, sack him for gross misconduct and let him fight for his wages in court, Utd can afford that, and everyone would be on their side.

I would say it's unbelievable what a complete lack of values they have, but it's totally believable.

Offline lamonti

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Re: Man United - Manchester's Other Team
« Reply #439 on: August 22, 2023, 07:54:01 am »
Can I also just say it was obvious that Mason Greenwood was a wrong 'un from miles before this incident.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 07:56:19 am by lamonti »