Author Topic: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'  (Read 35892 times)

Offline killer-heels

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #720 on: August 7, 2022, 09:22:16 pm »
For me I think the Thiago/Henderson/Fabinho midfield axis has had its time. There just isnt the energy or creativity in there anymore and in too many games they are being got at. They had an amazing game last week against City but too many games right now we are missing something.

Two of those and a more energetic, creative presence is required and for me its only Keita or Elliott.

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #721 on: August 8, 2022, 12:14:14 am »
You quoted a bit, but then ignored it: 'Fewer than he used to?'.

Anyway - 5 assists was (joint) 27th, not 37th. How many of those above him were central midfielders? You can just use the 8s if you like, though Henderson spent time at 6, too. From a quick scan down the list, 3 maybe 4 above him who played a similar role (more consistently attacking, without his defensive responsibility at times, particularly if played at 6): Mount, Pogba, De Bruyne and Fernandes.

Whether it's fewer or not, and you don't give any figures, you said he creates "tons of chances" and he simply doesn't. It's irrelevant citing other players.

Offline redmark

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #722 on: August 8, 2022, 12:21:16 am »
Whether it's fewer or not, and you don't give any figures, you said he creates "tons of chances" and he simply doesn't. It's irrelevant citing other players.
You (incorrectly) claimed he was 37th in the PL, thus comparing him with other players. I was pointing out that all but 3 or 4 of them don't play in his position, those that do have with less defensive responsibility and are amongst the best attacking midfielders in the league.

No, he's not Kevin De Bruyne. Nobody is.

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Offline number 168

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #723 on: August 8, 2022, 12:28:19 am »
You (incorrectly) claimed he was 37th in the PL, thus comparing him with other players. I was pointing out that all but 3 or 4 of them don't play in his position, those that do have with less defensive responsibility and are amongst the best attacking midfielders in the league.

No, he's not Kevin De Bruyne. Nobody is.

No, sorry mate, you said he creates "tons of chances" and he doesn't. No matter how you try and wriggle out of it your claim was bogus. Not criticising Hendo, he does a good job and always gives 100%, but to claim he creates "tons of chances" is ridiculous.

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #724 on: August 8, 2022, 02:07:39 am »
Just looking at some stuff from yesterday and it seems pretty clear to me that Bobby and Hendo were just way off which was a huge problem. As always when talking about analytics the problem you get is "game state" in that the subs were after we were already losing so Fulham weren't as front foot as they were at the start. So it's hard to say that Nunez or Elliott would have been better in that first 50 minutes, but it's hard to think Firmino or Hendo could have been worse as well. Having your striker in midfield and your 8 the de facto striker is a bit odd for a Klopp system, not sure I've ever seen that before.






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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #725 on: August 8, 2022, 06:44:00 am »
Finally got around to watching the highlights, don't have the energy to watch a full replay yet, I'm as undercooked for this season as many of the players apparently are.

Despite a rank performance by our standards, it still seems like we had the better chances to win the game. The penalty was farcical IMO; yes there was contact but never enough to cause any interference at all, Mitrovic just threw himself into it and conned the ref. The bar for "clear and obvious" is too high, surely that was worth a look so the ref could confirm that the replay was exactly as he saw it. There is no way any of our forwards would have got that one; if by some miracle we had, you can be certain the general public would be shouting LiVARpool for the rest of the season.

The BBC ran an article suggesting it's time for us to panic because City will almost certainly be 5 points ahead by the time we play Palace. Makes me want to just give up on the game to be honest, it's just exhausting.

Great start for Darwin, though.

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #726 on: August 8, 2022, 06:55:15 am »
For me probably controversial but I thought the penalty was a penalty. It’s soft for sure and he’s looking for it but for me VVD needs to sharpen up as surely he would have realised that there was no way he was doing anything but to look for some contact and VVD obliged.


Offline Fromola

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #727 on: August 8, 2022, 08:01:37 am »
For me I think the Thiago/Henderson/Fabinho midfield axis has had its time. There just isnt the energy or creativity in there anymore and in too many games they are being got at. They had an amazing game last week against City but too many games right now we are missing something.

Two of those and a more energetic, creative presence is required and for me its only Keita or Elliott.

It needs to be Fabinho or Henderson alongside Thiago and then more legs around it. Thiago out for a while now anyway so will have to work around it.

The midfield has needed fine tuning for a couple of years now but we've not really addressed it and players just get older and it gets a bit stale (Milner/Hendo/Thiago particularly age wise and Gini leaving because we couldn't afford too many in that age bracket but without the younger replacement).  We had the best keeper and back 5 in the league last year, collectively, and a lethal forward line, including 3 of the league's highest scorers, but midfield was where we were really behind City, as a collective.
« Last Edit: August 8, 2022, 08:14:07 am by Fromola »
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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #728 on: August 8, 2022, 08:14:03 am »
Joel Rabinowitz
@joel_archie

Liverpool have gone 1-0 down in seven of their last nine games in all competitions now (and in each of their last five league games). On four of those occasions they've conceded the opening goal within the first 15 minutes. Starting slow is becoming a habit that needs breaking.
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Offline Fromola

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #729 on: August 8, 2022, 08:24:02 am »
Joel Rabinowitz
@joel_archie

Liverpool have gone 1-0 down in seven of their last nine games in all competitions now (and in each of their last five league games). On four of those occasions they've conceded the opening goal within the first 15 minutes. Starting slow is becoming a habit that needs breaking.

You can mitigate the end of last season as the 63 game season took its toll physically and we didn't have usual energy levels, a bit of sloppiness as well. Southampton was a virtual reserve side anyway, Spurs took the lead into the second half as well as did Madrid in the final. That leaves Villa which from memory was a dodgy goal, Wolves on the last day and Villareal away which was probably a bit of complacency with the 2-0 lead.

I wonder if there was a bit of underestimating Fulham though and thinking on a hot day we could pace ourselves a bit, but they were right at it from the start. If the plan was to let them wear themselves out and then beat them with fresh legs off the bench it would have worked had we not given stupid goals away.

You'd like to see us go for the jugular from the start and get our noses in front more, rather than having to dig deep every week to grind out a result and get back in the game and giving opponents encouragement. Teams are facing us thinking they can give us a tough game but facing City already beaten.

« Last Edit: August 8, 2022, 08:26:15 am by Fromola »
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Offline Para08

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #730 on: August 8, 2022, 09:08:12 am »
It wasn’t the start we all wanted but I fancy us to put things right against Palace and strap ourselves
in for the ride. What concerns me is our brittle midfield and the form of Fab/Hendo. Watching Rodri yesterday he seems to be the most press resistant midfielder in the league and always has a 5 yard pass to make whereas Saturday our lads were stretching to make a pass or over hitting balls over the top because they were being harried all game.

I can’t imagine they were surprised by Fulhams energy and it hurts that they couldn’t deal with it. Luckily our opening fixtures are fairly kind and I fancy us to put things right but when the CL begins we need to find the balance with this midfield as it’s going to be our downfall. Onto Palace. Up the reds

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #731 on: August 8, 2022, 09:28:11 am »
its a bit tiresome with all the crap that's posted after a draw.
 thankfully in my day we didn't have Fifa or internet shitehawks moaning every time we don't win.

take at look at 1984 and see what happened

I'll tell you anyway - we lost the charity shield to Man Utd
then drew our first game away to newly promoted wolves

« Last Edit: August 8, 2022, 09:31:48 am by oldman »

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #732 on: August 8, 2022, 09:31:42 am »
I’ll be honest, reading some of the ridiculously negative posts on here left me more disappointed than the result.  It’s game 1 of a 38 game season.  They’ll be slip ups, poor performances, bad refereeing decisions (aplenty), and bits of bad luck in every season. If you are going to get this freaked out and upset about a draw away from home where we came from behind twice and had to deal with a ridiculously soft penalty then this season is going to be very bad for your mental health.

For me the penalty changed everything, and I’m surprised that more people on here weren’t more mad about that decision than the overall performance.  After we scored it felt like there was only going to be one winner until the penalty, and I’m very confident we would have taken the 3 points without it.

But once again I guess I’m going to have to make peace with the reality that if we finish the season on 90+ points yet again and finish 1 or 2 points behind City people will moan and complain about this result being the cause and what we should have done differently to address that.

EVERY team in PL history has dropped at least 14 points.  This was just 2 of those, so onwards and upwards.

Offline thaddeus

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #733 on: August 8, 2022, 09:45:13 am »
I’ll be honest, reading some of the ridiculously negative posts on here left me more disappointed than the result.  It’s game 1 of a 38 game season.  They’ll be slip ups, poor performances, bad refereeing decisions (aplenty), and bits of bad luck in every season. If you are going to get this freaked out and upset about a draw away from home where we came from behind twice and had to deal with a ridiculously soft penalty then this season is going to be very bad for your mental health.

For me the penalty changed everything, and I’m surprised that more people on here weren’t more mad about that decision than the overall performance.  After we scored it felt like there was only going to be one winner until the penalty, and I’m very confident we would have taken the 3 points without it.

But once again I guess I’m going to have to make peace with the reality that if we finish the season on 90+ points yet again and finish 1 or 2 points behind City people will moan and complain about this result being the cause and what we should have done differently to address that.

EVERY team in PL history has dropped at least 14 points.  This was just 2 of those, so onwards and upwards.
It was an infuriating decision, no doubt.  It was a classic case of VAR won't intervene either way - similar to Foden kicking the ball out of Adrian's hand in the Community Shield - so whatever the on-pitch ref decided stands.  If there was a contact between Virgil and Mitrovic it was absolutely minimal and not enough to make Mitrovic hit the deck like he did.  I can imagine the uproar that would have followed us getting a penalty that way, a stark contrast to the cheerleading of Jenas and McManaman.

Fulham seemed to rattle us with their sharpness into tackles and gambling on cutting off passing lanes.  The second goal was a fine example of one of their players gambling on where Matip would play the pass.  The weird thing is that it's nothing new but we didn't cope well with it, instead hitting too many long passes to bypass their pressing.

My other gripe was that we willingly engaged them in head tennis for large parts of the game.  It was like a non-league game where craning your neck and getting an extra few yards on your header was a victory.  There were loads of occasions where we could have headed the ball out wide or back to Alisson to retain possession, or where a player could have just brought the ball down.  We've coped with direct sides many times in the past and done so without trying to match fire with fire.

In the end a point wasn't disastrous and there were some promising signs, not least the mentality to twice come back from going a goal down against a bouncing home support and to then go within the width of the crossbar of claiming a winner.
« Last Edit: August 8, 2022, 09:47:33 am by thaddeus »

Offline killer-heels

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #734 on: August 8, 2022, 09:55:19 am »
It wasn’t the start we all wanted but I fancy us to put things right against Palace and strap ourselves
in for the ride. What concerns me is our brittle midfield and the form of Fab/Hendo. Watching Rodri yesterday he seems to be the most press resistant midfielder in the league and always has a 5 yard pass to make whereas Saturday our lads were stretching to make a pass or over hitting balls over the top because they were being harried all game.

I can’t imagine they were surprised by Fulhams energy and it hurts that they couldn’t deal with it. Luckily our opening fixtures are fairly kind and I fancy us to put things right but when the CL begins we need to find the balance with this midfield as it’s going to be our downfall. Onto Palace. Up the reds

To be fair Rodri and our 6’s are different. His ability to beat the press and progress the ball is something ours lack, but Henderson and Fabinho have other strengths.

Offline Fromola

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #735 on: August 8, 2022, 10:04:35 am »
It was an infuriating decision, no doubt.  It was a classic case of VAR won't intervene either way - similar to Foden kicking the ball out of Adrian's hand in the Community Shield - so whatever the on-pitch ref decided stands.  If there was a contact between Virgil and Mitrovic it was absolutely minimal and not enough to make Mitrovic hit the deck like he did.  I can imagine the uproar that would have followed us getting a penalty that way, a stark contrast to the cheerleading of Jenas and McManaman.

Concerned we're going to get pissed on by refs again this season (like 20/21) on the evidence so far. VAR for the City goal ignoring the foul, ref inexplicably not giving a blatant handball for us in that game which VAR had to give and the decisions on Saturday.

The transition of Riley to Webb. Riley doesn't even have to be pretend anymore because he's going anyway to be replaced by another of Fergie's cohort.

Throw in Tyler's shithousery, backlash to booing the anthem and all the media wilfully misconstruing Klopp's comments about the pitch to have a go and it's becoming open season again, while the media darlings of City are lavished over.
« Last Edit: August 8, 2022, 10:08:44 am by Fromola »
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Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #736 on: August 8, 2022, 10:08:34 am »
When we have a similar pen turned down, we'll get told that not all contact is a penalty.
If we did get it given, there'd be a week long debate. It's just the way it is. Tiresome as fuck.

I've hardly bothered with the footy this weekend and just enjoyed the sunshine, meeting up with family and friends and even fitting in a quick visit to our beautiful City on Saturday including a little drive past to see the ARE development.

The game of footy itself is as great as it ever was. The whole thing is just ruined by the constant noise that's generated by inane dickheads.

A case in point was Craig Hignett on Merseyside talking about our chances for the season. Craigs view: He's worried about our bench, too weak full of kids. Until the presenter pointed out how many were missing through injury.

Offline Fromola

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #737 on: August 8, 2022, 10:09:05 am »
If Salah got that pen you'd never hear the end of it.
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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #738 on: August 8, 2022, 10:14:38 am »
If Salah got that pen you'd never hear the end of it.
Yes, but he wouldn't...
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #739 on: August 8, 2022, 10:29:58 am »
If Salah got that pen you'd never hear the end of it.

Yeah, well, if you witnessed the second coming of Jesus Christ you probably wouldn't keep that quiet either, would you?

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #740 on: August 8, 2022, 10:33:15 am »
It needs to be Fabinho or Henderson alongside Thiago and then more legs around it. Thiago out for a while now anyway so will have to work around it.


i think that's about right. We looked much better with Elliot on. The worry for me is that in Elliot, Carvallho and Jones we have players that are 'growing' [arguments about Jones notwithstanding] and will therefore be inconsistent. Keita is for me 'Thiago lite' to some extent. Milner is good in patches but simply can't be anywhere near first choice. Ox is injured, again, and surely won't be around next season.

It looked a lot like we were in for Tchoumanei until Madrid swooped in, so we clearly know we need a bit of drive/legs in that midfield area. So it's strange not to want someone else in there. I get that we could be, in theory, 'waiting' for Bellingham and that this has served us well previously. But I don't think it's just one midfielder we need. We never really replaced Gini, milner and ox will both likely be gone next year and that leaves us with the young lads, Henderson I guess filling the milner role and who knows on Keita/Thiago.

I think the reason it's a point of frustration for so many is you look at our defence and forward options and we look absolutely stacked 5 top class forwards with probably only Firminho now in 'decline' and 4 unreal CBs, the best 2 FBs in the league both with excellent cover. In Midfield it's impossible to argue that it isn't a lot more patchy, where we have a mix of injury prone, young and old and only really Fabinho and Keita in their 'peak' years. Now Thiago is out, and even for example Morton [who played a fair bit last year across cups and heavy injury periods in the league] is not available it feels like bad news not to get someone in. Not just for now but for the future too. It's the area clearly most in need of overhaul.

It's not giving up on the league, bedwetting or forgetting what these lads did this year or last. It's just there in front of us really. We didn't quite win the bloody lot last year and in a handful of games we dropped points due to lacking control in midfield [Brigton Home, chelsea away for example]. It's a concern that we started like we did v Fulham, because plenty of other teams will be looking at that midfield showing and thinking 'is that how we get at them'
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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #741 on: August 8, 2022, 10:33:51 am »
What pissing me off is how teams turning up hard against us whilst bending down hard to City. Just take West ham for example, Antonio and Lanzini always turn into world beaters against us whilst they can't even control the ball against City. People were upset against the draw because we know for sure teams like Fulham won't take any points off City and they will just bend down.

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #742 on: August 8, 2022, 10:34:46 am »
+ Jurgen Klopp:

"The best news about this game is the result, so I am really fine with the point."

"I know we could've won the game. That wouldn't have made our performance a little bit better, but we could have."

"We started actually exactly the opposite way that we wanted – first pass outside Robbo, Robbo passed the ball back. It's just a little sign. Nothing happened there but we said we have to break lines and what we did, we played into their hands."
It's there to remind our lads who they're playing for and to remind the opposition who they're playing against!

Offline thaddeus

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #743 on: August 8, 2022, 10:44:48 am »
+ Jurgen Klopp:

"The best news about this game is the result, so I am really fine with the point."

"I know we could've won the game. That wouldn't have made our performance a little bit better, but we could have."

"We started actually exactly the opposite way that we wanted – first pass outside Robbo, Robbo passed the ball back. It's just a little sign. Nothing happened there but we said we have to break lines and what we did, we played into their hands."
Klopp nailing it as usual.  That's why he's the boss and we're keyboard warriors  ;D

It was certainly a strange performance.  The second half was better but it still felt like we fell into the trap of playing how Fulham wanted to play (slow, scrappy, loose balls in congested areas) instead of imposing our style.  Some credit must go to Fulham but also our individual decision making wasn't quite there.  Maybe pre-season hangover, maybe a lack of match sharpness, maybe both.

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #744 on: August 8, 2022, 10:52:57 am »


Great post.

I tend to stay away after a “defeat” and let things settle down.

Full credit to Fulham and Silva who had a plan and they stuck to it. Do we ever perform well in the 1239 kickoffs?

Midfield is a concern and the one area of the team (he says without any supporting evidence) that seems to bear the brunt of the regular short term absences. A pair of good strong, young legs in there would help.

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #745 on: August 8, 2022, 10:55:15 am »
First game of the season.. yeah... I won't worry about it.
Our two strikers scored and we got a point, so for the first game of the season, I'm okay with it.
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In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline wah00ey

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #746 on: August 8, 2022, 10:55:22 am »
What pissing me off is how teams turning up hard against us whilst bending down hard to City. Just take West ham for example, Antonio and Lanzini always turn into world beaters against us whilst they can't even control the ball against City. People were upset against the draw because we know for sure teams like Fulham won't take any points off City and they will just bend down.
I do honestly believe there's an element of truth in the idea teams try harder against us than City and I think it's for 2 reasons.  First, they think their's a better chance of getting something from a game with us and secondly, City are still very much a "meh" team and it's far more palatable for many if they win the league rather than Liverpool.  It's soo frustrating because I think City can be got at defensively but rarely does anyone try...
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Offline slaphead

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #747 on: August 8, 2022, 11:03:13 am »
What pissing me off is how teams turning up hard against us whilst bending down hard to City. Just take West ham for example, Antonio and Lanzini always turn into world beaters against us whilst they can't even control the ball against City. People were upset against the draw because we know for sure teams like Fulham won't take any points off City and they will just bend down.

They don't really. They beat us last year but that was the first time in a long time they got anything from us. Fulham are new and were up for it, it happens. I'm sure when Norwich beat City early in the season they were saying teams like that always turn up against them and not us.  The reality is us and City normally demolish these teams. It's easy to say the weaker teams in the league should have a go at City but City play possession, they need to get the ball and keep it first.


Offline Sharado

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #748 on: August 8, 2022, 11:15:57 am »
What pissing me off is how teams turning up hard against us whilst bending down hard to City.

Sorry like it's nonsense this. Plenty of teams have a go at City, plenty of teams have a go at us. You'd see the exact same stuff on City's forums about us. City don't drop many points as they are an elite side with a great coach. Quite why this is the case is another issue. But city beating teams, easily or otherwise, isn't for us to worry about.
Football, like life, isn't about getting what you want or even deserve. It's about appreciating what you have.


Offline ljycb

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #749 on: August 8, 2022, 11:26:14 am »
What pissing me off is how teams turning up hard against us whilst bending down hard to City. Just take West ham for example, Antonio and Lanzini always turn into world beaters against us whilst they can't even control the ball against City. People were upset against the draw because we know for sure teams like Fulham won't take any points off City and they will just bend down.

No, City win most of the games they play because of a great team and manager, much in the same way that we do. West Ham started with a flurry but by the 15th minute City were clocking 82% possession. That’s incredibly difficult to play against. Your concentration needs to be perfect. Then you substitute your goalkeeper and you’re playing a full-back at centre back and there you have it.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #750 on: August 8, 2022, 11:42:47 am »
For me probably controversial but I thought the penalty was a penalty. It’s soft for sure and he’s looking for it but for me VVD needs to sharpen up as surely he would have realised that there was no way he was doing anything but to look for some contact and VVD obliged.

Its one thats not getting over-turned yeah, but the annoyance isn't whether it was a foul or not. The annoyance is that again, we concede a soft penalty with a referee gagging to give it. We then fast forward a day and see a United defender at Old Trafford committing a far, far more obvious foul and getting away with it. As others have said, I dare say it won't be long before we see a more obvious penalty for us not given.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Sharado

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #751 on: August 8, 2022, 11:58:48 am »
For me probably controversial but I thought the penalty was a penalty.

It's not controversial at all IMO. It's soft and he's 'looking for it' but there's no way it's an overturn on VAR or anything of the sort. It was probably the worst game VVD has had for us since the Villa shambles in lockdown in that sense. Not just this, which was pretty stupid really, but his distribution and organization seemed off too. The whole team had a bit of a stinker really.
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Offline mikeb58

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #752 on: August 8, 2022, 12:01:27 pm »
No, City win most of the games they play because of a great team and manager, much in the same way that we do.


No, City win most of their games because they are cheats. Their sole purpose as cheats ( as with cheats in all walks of life) is to win, not to entertain or enjoy, simply to win, anything else is a dismal failure.

Yes, they will probably will go to Fulham and win 5-0, but it's meaningless, totally irrelevant.

Because City mean fuck all to anyone, we are the bigger scalp, so teams probably do raise their game against us, it's human nature.

Same for opposition fans, us in town is their Cup Final, we should be proud of back handed compliment, I am!

We came from behind twice against Fulham ( in difficult circumstances) to snatch a point, I'm ok with that. Like I said in a previous post, rather be us doing it the legit way, no matter how we get on, than cheating our way to success.

Man City are a rancid stain on the footy, there is fuck all 'great' about them in my opinion.


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Offline ljycb

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #753 on: August 8, 2022, 01:01:05 pm »

No, City win most of their games because they are cheats. Their sole purpose as cheats ( as with cheats in all walks of life) is to win, not to entertain or enjoy, simply to win, anything else is a dismal failure.

Yes, they will probably will go to Fulham and win 5-0, but it's meaningless, totally irrelevant.

Because City mean fuck all to anyone, we are the bigger scalp, so teams probably do raise their game against us, it's human nature.

Same for opposition fans, us in town is their Cup Final, we should be proud of back handed compliment, I am!

We came from behind twice against Fulham ( in difficult circumstances) to snatch a point, I'm ok with that. Like I said in a previous post, rather be us doing it the legit way, no matter how we get on, than cheating our way to success.

Man City are a rancid stain on the footy, there is fuck all 'great' about them in my opinion.

I’m just saying that they have a squad full of world class players and one of the best managers of all time (in my opinion), so it’s no real surprise that they win most of their games.

Offline Fromola

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #754 on: August 8, 2022, 01:03:03 pm »
They don't really. They beat us last year but that was the first time in a long time they got anything from us. Fulham are new and were up for it, it happens. I'm sure when Norwich beat City early in the season they were saying teams like that always turn up against them and not us.  The reality is us and City normally demolish these teams. It's easy to say the weaker teams in the league should have a go at City but City play possession, they need to get the ball and keep it first.

Norwich are about the one team we regularly turn over, everyone else makes it difficult more often than not. Even Norwich were 1-0 up at Anfield fairly late on last season and in the season Norwich beat Man City at Carrow Road we scraped out a scrappy 1-0 and it could have gone the other way.

City have got teams who they batter twice every single season (at least Watford and Burnley are at least down this season).
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Offline Cafe De Paris

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #755 on: August 8, 2022, 01:11:01 pm »
This just means we have to make up the points dropped somewhere else over the season. Just hope the injuries don't get any worse.
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Offline Ghost Town

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #756 on: August 8, 2022, 01:37:02 pm »
I’ll be honest, reading some of the ridiculously negative posts on here left me more disappointed than the result.  It’s game 1 of a 38 game season.  They’ll be slip ups, poor performances, bad refereeing decisions (aplenty), and bits of bad luck in every season. If you are going to get this freaked out and upset about a draw away from home where we came from behind twice and had to deal with a ridiculously soft penalty then this season is going to be very bad for your mental health.

For me the penalty changed everything, and I’m surprised that more people on here weren’t more mad about that decision than the overall performance.  After we scored it felt like there was only going to be one winner until the penalty, and I’m very confident we would have taken the 3 points without it.

But once again I guess I’m going to have to make peace with the reality that if we finish the season on 90+ points yet again and finish 1 or 2 points behind City people will moan and complain about this result being the cause and what we should have done differently to address that.

EVERY team in PL history has dropped at least 14 points.  This was just 2 of those, so onwards and upwards.
Glad you're here Doc :thumbup

The strange performance was more disappointing than the result. Dropped points will happen from time to time, often unexpectedly. Just need to take that on the chin. But a performance that left even the manager baffled is disappointing. I'm wondering if the one thing we're lacking now is a Gerrard style 'by the scuff' taker. Someone who will grab the team and lift them out of the odd timidity and undercooked malaise we sometimes drop into.
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Offline ljycb

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #757 on: August 8, 2022, 01:47:13 pm »
Glad you're here Doc :thumbup

The strange performance was more disappointing than the result. Dropped points will happen from time to time, often unexpectedly. Just need to take that on the chin. But a performance that left even the manager baffled is disappointing. I'm wondering if the one thing we're lacking now is a Gerrard style 'by the scuff' taker. Someone who will grab the team and lift them out of the odd timidity and undercooked malaise we sometimes drop into.

In fairness, we’re a Henderson shot going in rather than hitting the crossbar away from any one of Trent, Salah or Núñez being seen as that player. And when we think about the amount of times Gerrard would save us, it’s also important to remember the amount of times we didn’t get the result (far more often back then than now). Sometimes you just have a bad day at the office - that our bad day had us very nearly winning a game that we deserved to lose is… promising if anything?

Offline Ghost Town

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #758 on: August 8, 2022, 01:49:53 pm »
Sorry like it's nonsense this. Plenty of teams have a go at City, plenty of teams have a go at us. You'd see the exact same stuff on City's forums about us. City don't drop many points as they are an elite side with a great coach. Quite why this is the case is another issue. But city beating teams, easily or otherwise, isn't for us to worry about.
I think the difference is nothing more than this:

City play to control the game, like a bunch of mechanical parts, automatons, moving the ball about and retaining it using safe passes and minutely micromanaged patterns and positions. We, on the other hand, play more on the edge, taking risks, mixing styles and deliberately forcing opposition errors.

When it works our style can be breathtaking and beautiful and infinitely satisfying, whereas City's remains dull and mechanistic all the time. But when it doesn't work we are at greater risk of playing into trouble, and into the opposition's hands, whereas City are still there plodding away in the same automaton like way, a physical realisation of the conceptual clockwork taking place in their manager's head.

The way to get to City is to prevent their clockwork from being set into gear from the start. But that takes a lot of effort from lesser teams, and it's not that teams don't try, it's that their efforts, which are taking place, can be masked by the plod, plod, plod of the clockwork.

The way to 'get' at us is easier, because we play on the edge and concentrating their efforts upon one area can sometimes visibly overload us, though the concomitant risks are also greater for the opposition.

And that's why it sometimes seems like the oppos try harder against us than against CIty.
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Offline Ghost Town

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Re: PL: Fulham 2 v Liverpool 2 Mitrovich 33' 72' (p) Darwin 64' Salah 81'
« Reply #759 on: August 8, 2022, 01:51:39 pm »
In fairness, we’re a Henderson shot going in rather than hitting the crossbar away from any one of Trent, Salah or Núñez being seen as that player. And when we think about the amount of times Gerrard would save us, it’s also important to remember the amount of times we didn’t get the result (far more often back then than now). Sometimes you just have a bad day at the office - that our bad day had us very nearly winning a game that we deserved to lose is… promising if anything?
Yep that's true. We were very close to that being a typical 'tough opening day away to a promoted side' which we nevertheless negotiated. Small margins.
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