Poll

What are your views on Kier Starmer's leadership of the Labour party to date?

Excellent
5 (1.9%)
Good
33 (12.7%)
Average
88 (34%)
Poor
46 (17.8%)
Awful
69 (26.6%)
Too early to say
18 (6.9%)

Total Members Voted: 259

Author Topic: Keir Starmer: your views?  (Read 94966 times)

Offline ianburns252

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #880 on: September 25, 2021, 05:29:46 pm »
It's hilarious.

I guess in a way it's a backhanded compliment to democracy. These idiots take democracy so much for granted that they've lost any real conception of what an elected representative is.

It's really strange in that there seems to be this idea that the MP vote almost doesn't count as democracy.

Obviously what they really mean is that the only real democracy is members as the gen pop who vote Labour don't count.

If MPs aren't there to make decisions then what is the point of them in the first place? They are literally the proxy of the people, voted in to make decisions on our behalf.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #881 on: September 25, 2021, 08:50:35 pm »
Activist group Momentum called the proposed rule change "an MP veto by the backdoor", adding: "Handing this much power to a Westminster elite is the opposite of democracy."

What a belter of a sentence

'Westminster elites" who are voted in by the general public as opposed to just Labour members having a vote is the opposite of democracy?

I appreciate the debate around it and I'm not saying that I'm in support of it butut I couldn't not be amazed at that sentence

Can’t believe the grifters in Momentum, Novara etc still have a platform. They have nothing to say and nothing to add. Just the usual platitudes and soundbites. They’re just a less successful Brexit Party from the other cheek. 

Offline Zeb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #882 on: September 26, 2021, 09:59:16 am »
If they keep trying to organise delegates as 'their's' then proscription is only a year or two away. Can't both deny CLPs the ability to mandate their own delegates *and* organise a whip for them when they get to conference. Thing which is telling though is that even the votes they thought they'd win they're losing with delegates and unions (eg their attempt to embarass Starmer by trying to reject his choice of general secretary). This isn't even on random dickery on obscure procedural issues any more either, they're actively opposing things which Labour legally has to implement or have them implemented upon the party by court order while pushing things which would lead to Labour breaching yet more laws. It's totally antithetical to maintaining Labour as a political party.

Starmer's not having a happy Marr interview here. All very 'Please be a bit more careful, in your own interest' on Duffield and now Rayner. Although suspect thing which will excite most attention will be him saying what should already be known that he's not planning on nationalising all the things. Most interesting bit though was him looking to an election in two to three years time now, something which fits with the economic situation going to shit and a result likely to lead to a hung parliament not being an incentive for Johnson to call one early.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 10:05:00 am by Zeb »
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Offline Sartorial

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #883 on: September 26, 2021, 11:02:09 am »
Angela Raynor though. It’s like Labour are actively assisting the Conservatives to remain in power.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #884 on: September 26, 2021, 11:02:16 am »
Why was Marr so focused on what Rayner said? The Tories are everything she described them as.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #885 on: September 26, 2021, 11:13:51 am »
Cos she's said it before and had to apologise, although she was sat in Parliament when she did it last. It is also a bit embarassing when everyone knows that Labour have a very specific group of voters they need to win over, the easiest group to win over really, and Starmer's trying to give them a way back to Labour which isn't activists tutting at them having voted for the Tories in the past. It's a shame in other ways cos there's a lovely interview with her by James O'Brien where she sets out where she's come from and how she sees herself which should be what people are talking about her saying.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 11:16:11 am by Zeb »
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #886 on: September 26, 2021, 11:16:23 am »
Why was Marr so focused on what Rayner said? The Tories are everything she described them as.
Because what she said is only going to turn away voters who have just voted Tory and who Labour need to win back.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #887 on: September 26, 2021, 11:24:01 am »
Because what she said is only going to turn away voters who have just voted Tory and who Labour need to win back.

Why, because they will see themselves in her comments?
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #888 on: September 26, 2021, 11:28:55 am »
I believed in democracy when politicians believed in responsibility and voters believed in accountability.

Dangerous language that - but I kind of see where you're going with that.

Up to about 5 or 6 years ago - there was an acceptance amongst most that democracy has enough keys and locks not to be tampered with - and over that intervening period we have seen attempt after attempt by politicians across the world to circumvent those locks either with words - or in the case of a few here and elsewhere with fists and weapons.

Or Cambridge Analytica.

If anything, the last few years have shown that democracy needs to be strengthened further - and I suspect when this current generation of politician have been removed and carted off to jail for their misdemeanours, such actions will be taken.  Until then, I suspect things may get worse - whether thats the continuing gerrymandering of district lines by the GOP in certain states - or the reinstatement of FPTP in council and mayoral elections over here - and that is when we cannot allow ourselves to be wondering how the Tories have got a bigger majority or more council seats without realising that all of that is for that purpose.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #889 on: September 26, 2021, 11:29:22 am »
Why, because they will see themselves in her comments?
That may be true in some cases, but I suspect for most it just drives a bigger wedge between them and Labour.

Rayner is someone who is actually quite politically savvy, but keeps on doing this. Personally I find her quite  a repellent  personality (may be different in person of course).  I think she said something the lines of “I can't be loved because I never have been” and that “I find it very difficult feeling happy”..

That’s dreadfully sad in so many ways, but maybe also what I find did about about her?  In so many ways that’s the very antithesis of Johnson too.
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #890 on: September 26, 2021, 11:48:17 am »
Why, because they will see themselves in her comments?

Yes, that's what tends to happen.

Nye Bevan made the same catastrophic mistake with his infamous comment that the Tories were "lower than vermin." Anyone who had ever voted Conservative believed he was talking about them. It gave the Tory party a galvanic sense of righteousness when they were almost down and out. It revived them at the polls. It killed any possibility Bevan would ever lead the Labour party or become Prime Minister, which he almost certainly would have done had he not been so stupid.

It speaks volumes, by the way, that many people on the Left actually love that comment about "vermin". You sometimes see it on T-shirts and badges. For some people it's possibly the ONLY thing they know about Bevan.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 11:50:29 am by Yorkykopite »
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Offline OOS

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #891 on: September 26, 2021, 11:56:02 am »
Angela Raynor though. It’s like Labour are actively assisting the Conservatives to remain in power.

I like Raynor, I voted for her, I think she is an asset to parliament, but fuck me. Massive weekend this, and silly shite like this isn't needed!

But... Starner should just laugh it off and say Angela being Angela. Make a joke of it, like Johnson would.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 12:15:53 pm by OOS »
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #892 on: September 26, 2021, 12:00:32 pm »
It's the environment and lead it creates too. It's great if you've an eye on an internal election cos you're going to get everyone cheering from among those who already support you, but party has had issue of activists telling voters shit like 'have a think on your privilege' when told that the voter isn't voting Labour. It feeds a self-righteousness which is crap when you're the right side of a hundred seat landslide and positively bonkers when you're the wrong side of one. Parts of the party have justified it in the past by saying that they'll just appeal to non-voters but non-voters are generally more right wing and less socially liberal than even the current Tory vote so that's pissing into the wind too. You can probably find a right balance to it but I'm hard pressed to think of anyone currently who has found it. Most of the soft left in Labour got this in 2010, if they hadn't learned it then they did in 2015. Cycle repeats.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #893 on: September 26, 2021, 12:04:01 pm »
Dangerous language that - but I kind of see where you're going with that.

Up to about 5 or 6 years ago - there was an acceptance amongst most that democracy has enough keys and locks not to be tampered with - and over that intervening period we have seen attempt after attempt by politicians across the world to circumvent those locks either with words - or in the case of a few here and elsewhere with fists and weapons.

Or Cambridge Analytica.

If anything, the last few years have shown that democracy needs to be strengthened further - and I suspect when this current generation of politician have been removed and carted off to jail for their misdemeanours, such actions will be taken.  Until then, I suspect things may get worse - whether thats the continuing gerrymandering of district lines by the GOP in certain states - or the reinstatement of FPTP in council and mayoral elections over here - and that is when we cannot allow ourselves to be wondering how the Tories have got a bigger majority or more council seats without realising that all of that is for that purpose.

I think waiting for that may be a bit too late for this generation, hence my angst. I think we still have a window of opportunity for fixing this without too much pain, with a general consensus across the population. There are still respected senior Tories who believe in responsibility. Not active, but retired and thus can be seen to be not biased.

My preference would be something like a Royal Commission, a body with the Crown's authority backing it. Headed by retired senior politicians, advised by experts in the fields being investigated. That would mean the surviving former PMs: Major (the key to all this), Blair, Brown, Cameron (yes, even he). I would add Clarke and Heseltine to that list. Heavily Tory, but the current government is Tory, so it would need to be Tory-dominated to stand a chance of surviving accusations of party politics.

It would be charged with investigating the current media-politics symbiosis, and looking at ways of holding politicians responsible for their actions, and making it possible for voters to sensibly assess their actions and holding their politicians to account. Since the body members, possibly with the exceptions of the last 3 PMs, may not be familiar with the media ecosystem nowadays, experts in the field would advise them on how it is today.

We are relatively lucky that Johnson, having been elected on nothing more than a media career, is socially liberal, and generally tends left on decisions (according to people who have personal dealings with him, as my opinion of him is the opposite). He is also egotistical enough to be given a unity argument and the promise of a positive legacy. If we wait until we have a Lawrence Fox type figure, or someone even closer to Trump, is in power, then I suspect that one or more of the senior Tories I named will already be gone, and a cross-party non-factional solution may become a dream rather than a possibility.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #894 on: September 26, 2021, 12:22:36 pm »
Yes, that's what tends to happen.

Nye Bevan made the same catastrophic mistake with his infamous comment that the Tories were "lower than vermin." Anyone who had ever voted Conservative believed he was talking about them. It gave the Tory party a galvanic sense of righteousness when they were almost down and out. It revived them at the polls. It killed any possibility Bevan would ever lead the Labour party or become Prime Minister, which he almost certainly would have done had he not been so stupid.

It speaks volumes, by the way, that many people on the Left actually love that comment about "vermin". You sometimes see it on T-shirts and badges. For some people it's possibly the ONLY thing they know about Bevan.
Nail …head…

Some now trying to claim that she’s just speaking how working class people speak.  Which I find spectacularly insulting to working class people.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #895 on: September 26, 2021, 12:26:00 pm »
Another thing which will be in the next manifesto (short of major surprise) announced just now. Office of Value for Money. Essentially it's to do what the National Audit Office does but before the money is spent. Comes from Meg Hillier (Chair of Public Accounts) by way of the Fabians here: https://fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/FABJ8752-TRACT-Report-INTS-210702-WEB-1.pdf

Two things to it which stand out. I think it speaks a great deal to how Labour see the next couple of years as being the Tories throwing money at vanity projects and claiming it's 'levelling up'. (Posted an analysis by Will Jennings some time back which suggested this as the most likely course from the Tories - projects to distract in the short term while long term investment dies on its arse.) The other is it's also something of a self-imposed limitation on Labour's own spending, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Something like Sure Start wasn't done because of a fixed evidence base - in fact, it wasn't until it was mainly shut down by the Tories that the evidence was there to show the great good it had done away from the individual and the anecdotal. It does also explain Starmer's comments today on nationalising things as any proposal would need to go through this process first.
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Offline Father Ted

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #896 on: September 26, 2021, 12:47:11 pm »
There's already an office for budget responsibility. Although fucks knows what they were doing last year when vast amounts of public funds were funnelled to Tory donors and friends.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #897 on: September 26, 2021, 12:57:05 pm »
Nail …head…

Some now trying to claim that she’s just speaking how working class people speak.  Which I find spectacularly insulting to working class people.

Does anyone really know what 'working class people' actually are thesedays?

I think it's an outdated term that doesn't really describe a demographic that exists in the same way in the UK.

I've described myself as being 'working class' as being from a very poor family on a council estate, but social and economic mobility and also many other factors might influence that description as time progresses and I imagine that's fairly common across the board. I know people that might have once been described as 'middle' or 'midde-upper' class who are now penniles and unable/unwilling to get a job.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #898 on: September 26, 2021, 01:04:29 pm »
There's already an office for budget responsibility. Although fucks knows what they were doing last year when vast amounts of public funds were funnelled to Tory donors and friends.

Think that's the point of this proposal from Labour. Budget Responsibility doesn't look at individual things really to judge whether it's a good idea or not, it's focused more on the overall government spending and implications of that. Audit Office and MPs don't get to question the spending at that level of detail until long after it's happened. So having an independent auditor writing a report ahead of time makes it a bit less politically palatable to give your family nice contracts for not a lot of work if politicians know it's going to be put out in real time. Whether there's drawbacks to it, is everything reducible to 'value for money'?, I'm going to have to edumacate myself about with the counterarguments I'm already seeing from some who've done work around similar things.
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Offline Bobsackamano

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #899 on: September 26, 2021, 01:04:46 pm »
I like Raynor, I voted for her, I think she is an asset to parliament, but fuck me. Massive weekend this, and silly shite like this isn't needed!

But... Starner should just laugh it off and say Angela being Angela. Make a joke of it, like Johnson would.

Its not in his personality to do that, if would just come across as fake.

I quite like the odd firebrand leftwing MP but they have no place in the hierarchy of a party that is serious about being elected.

It's a sad state the Labour party is in and i think it's not only beyond Starmer but it's beyond anybody. The disconnect between hardcore Labour supporters (both left and some of the right) and the general population is stark and growing, it could even now be permanent.

Social and cultural separation between leftwing people and the rest of the population seems to be hardening which means there are fewer avenues for Labour's voice to be heard. Unfortunately when it is heard it's radicals hurling abuse at anybody who doesn't wholeheartedly agree with everything they say. Its very ugly. Its this normalisation of abuse in left wing circles that lays the background for Raynors comments, in the context where she said them the language would actually be mild.

Starmer wont be PM unless he can first show he can run the party with even a basic sheen of unity and respect. Thats impossible though as so many in the party genuinely hate each other. That's the standout emotion emitting from the Labour party now, Hate.

This conference should have been Starmers Kinnock conference, with a line in the sand drawn and a newer more optimistic party moving forward. He's not got it in him though, for the same reason he cant just laugh off Raynors comments like Johnson would do, its not his personality.

I hope im wrong but i doubt it, the Tories are in for good now.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #900 on: September 26, 2021, 01:15:31 pm »
Think that's the point of this proposal from Labour. Budget Responsibility doesn't look at individual things really to judge whether it's a good idea or not, it's focused more on the overall government spending and implications of that. Audit Office and MPs don't get to question the spending at that level of detail until long after it's happened. So having an independent auditor writing a report ahead of time makes it a bit less politically palatable to give your family nice contracts for not a lot of work if politicians know it's going to be put out in real time. Whether there's drawbacks to it, is everything reducible to 'value for money'?, I'm going to have to edumacate myself about with the counterarguments I'm already seeing from some who've done work around similar things.

I think the office itself was only introduced in the Cameron/Osborne years when we were pretending that a global financial crisis was somehow caused by Labour's spending and that knocking up a community centre in the Midlands directly led to Lehman Brothers collapsing. Labour should probably have nipped that in the bud back then, but I haven't read Reeves suggestion yet so maybe they do address similar concerns.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #901 on: September 26, 2021, 01:27:37 pm »
Nail …head…

Some now trying to claim that she’s just speaking how working class people speak.  Which I find spectacularly insulting to working class people.

She said it herself. "It's a phrase you would hear very often in northern working-class towns. We'd even say it jovially to other people" she told Sky. What's bad about this is not just that it could indeed be said to be insulting to working-class people ("You said it love, not me. I don't use that kind of language"). But it also seems to contain a weird apology (the "jovial" bit). Much better to come right out and say "I'm sorry", and "I recognise that democratic politics would be impossible if everybody used that language to describe their political opponents."   

I like Raynor. She's an asset to Labour. But she fucked up there.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #902 on: September 26, 2021, 01:40:10 pm »
I think the office itself was only introduced in the Cameron/Osborne years when we were pretending that a global financial crisis was somehow caused by Labour's spending and that knocking up a community centre in the Midlands directly led to Lehman Brothers collapsing. Labour should probably have nipped that in the bud back then, but I haven't read Reeves suggestion yet so maybe they do address similar concerns.

Yeah, I remember getting all sorts of shit on here for saying it back in 2009/10 and now we've just gone through a pandemic where the Tories have embraced what was argued then. There's a weird tension there between appeasing the perceptions of Labour spending all the money (heh) while also having room to do what's needed in a hurry. Maybe this Office of Value for Money is a smarter way to do that than tying yourself to Tory spending plans for a Parliament? Horizon for manifesto promises, and priorities, are going to be over four or five years at most so it's going to be tightly thought through anyway. Part of the reason to move to something done months ahead of an election rather than try to cobble one together where everyone gets their favorite policy into it.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #903 on: September 26, 2021, 01:47:11 pm »
Well it's certainly the language I use. Probably wasn't wise though. As to its impact on the next election - somewhere between just below and just above zero, but probably closer to the lower estimate. The vast majority of the electorate will have forgotten about it and the rest will never have even known about it in the first place.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #904 on: September 26, 2021, 02:16:11 pm »
I don't think this Angela Raynor uproar will do as much harm as people think. the news isn't just focussing on her Scum comment, it's also bringing more attention to the Torys giving their m8s and family billions of tax payers money in backhanders while letting children go hungry due to poverty. 
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #905 on: September 26, 2021, 02:38:19 pm »
Nail …head…

Some now trying to claim that she’s just speaking how working class people speak.  Which I find spectacularly insulting to working class people.

Ive just done an unscientific RAWK search on "Vermin"  50 pages and not many are talking about actual rats

it seems a reasonable statement
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #906 on: September 26, 2021, 02:53:45 pm »
Ive just done an unscientific RAWK search on "Vermin"  50 pages and not many are talking about actual rats

it seems a reasonable statement
;D

I don’t think anyone here is going to be voting Tory though.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #907 on: September 26, 2021, 02:56:53 pm »
;D

I don’t think anyone here is going to be voting Tory though.

I will now - just to enhance my point  ;)
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #908 on: September 26, 2021, 02:57:23 pm »
I will now - just to enhance my point  ;)
:lmao

Made me laugh there. ;D
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #909 on: September 26, 2021, 03:13:49 pm »
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-james-gray-apologises-sick-25074594


Dont worry Angela one of the Vermin has made you yesterdays news 
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #910 on: September 26, 2021, 03:14:15 pm »
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-james-gray-apologises-sick-25074594


Dont worry Angela one of the Vermin has made you yesterdays news 
And that was an even worse comment
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #911 on: September 26, 2021, 03:24:13 pm »
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-james-gray-apologises-sick-25074594


Dont worry Angela one of the Vermin has made you yesterdays news 

"Angela Raynor, are you disgusted by what James Gray just said?"

"Errr..........."
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #912 on: September 26, 2021, 03:27:10 pm »
"Angela Raynor, are you disgusted by what James Gray just said?"

"Errr..........."

Grays comment is definitely worse though
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #913 on: September 26, 2021, 03:40:26 pm »
Grays comment is definitely worse though

Maybe.

But Labour, thanks to Raynor, is hardly in a position to point it out.

And the same will be true the next time Johnson makes some foul personal remark about a group of people he doesn't like.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #914 on: September 26, 2021, 03:53:41 pm »
Maybe.

But Labour, thanks to Raynor, is hardly in a position to point it out.

And the same will be true the next time Johnson makes some foul personal remark about a group of people he doesn't like.
I think it will be interesting, Labour can turn this on it's head if they handle it properly by making the right arguments to defend themselves while attacking the Torys hypocrisy.
So Raynor is being accused of calling all Tory voters scum when she calls Johnson Scum, so are all Labour voters traitors and communists as that's the insults they threw at Corbyn, we have to be fair here, those accusations were thrown at Corbyn and not all Labour voters, the same reasoning should be applied to Raynors comments, she accused Johnson of being scum not Tory voters.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 03:55:21 pm by oldfordie »
Chris Bryant

It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
10:42 PM · May 25, 2024
·

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #915 on: September 26, 2021, 06:27:08 pm »

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“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #917 on: September 26, 2021, 06:46:51 pm »
Hope the journalist presses charges. I almost ended up in a libel thing with serial fantasist Greenstein, and I think still JVL's deputy chair, but he retracted and we were advised not to continue because he's broke and so costs would fall on us. He actually has taken people to court himself and left them with massive costs when he then turns round and says 'I can only pay the costs back at Ł2 a week'. Anyways. Lovely people, as others on here know too.

Setting aside the substance, thought Shabana Mahmood's summary and defence of the proposed changes was very, very good today. Very effective public speaking.



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And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #918 on: September 26, 2021, 06:49:54 pm »
The political Editor of LBC

How many ways can they fuck up :butt
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #919 on: September 26, 2021, 07:17:56 pm »
https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1442174518215299075?s=20

Well this isn't good...

Enjoyed the instant denial of the actual proof from the tight T-shirt c*nt and former Tory/Lib Dem Bastani.