Poll

Tory Christmas Party

Nothing like a good old knees up!
They should apologise and come clean
Johnson should resign
The front bench should resign
The entire party should resign
The entire party should be put in an Elon Musk rocket and fired off to jupiter with 2 packets of hula hoops and a pot noodle
I LOVE cheese!

Author Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!  (Read 1179741 times)

Online oldfordie

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25320 on: December 20, 2021, 01:02:21 pm »
Really good thread interesting the amount of bad publicity seems to be what is doing for Johnson. With the public it isn't one particular issue or story but generally a straw that breaks the camels back on the guardian piece a few pages there where lots different reasons given by previous Tory voters who switched to the Liberals quoted everything from Sleeze, Parties, Owen Peterson, The NHS Bill for their decision. Show's how the media influences perceptions.

I see two criticisms of Starmer one being that he is not doing enough to oppose and two that he is playing politics during a national crisis. Shows how fine a line he has to walk don't think he has done too bad. People  Post Covid the public was always going to rally around the Government especially with the Government effectively having unopposed party political broadcasts almoast every night with the daily briefings. Now with the parties they are millstones around the Government's neck wouldn't surprise me if Johnson delegates them going forward especially after the recent set of questions from Peston & Sam Coates.

At PM Question Time the argument isn't who won but why didn't Starmer land the Knock Out punch I don't think he is going for it more to win on points.
I think it's impossible to get the knock out blow with a populist leader. it's all about attacking the image. making people see him for what he is. Johnson was popular because he made some people feel good, he made some people like him.
Starmer has been attacking his image, the public are now beginning to see him for what he is.
 I think back to Johnsons good old days just a few yrs ago. everyone full of smiles and giggles when he spoke especially when he went into one his Peppa Pig type story. it was embarrassing to watch. I think Johnson will know his days are numbered when he sees his audience sat Stoney faced.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 01:04:15 pm by oldfordie »
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Leaving the European Union has completely destroyed the Conservative Party. If that doesn't qualify as a concrete Brexit benefit, what does?

Offline TSC

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25321 on: December 20, 2021, 01:03:18 pm »
One reason and one reason only, either they're true believers in Brexit or they can readily turn off their beliefs if it benefits their career.

They may well have gotten away with such a cabinet of incompetents were it not for Covid.  The slow bleed out from Brexit would have gone largely unnoticed and unreported.

Here’s Liz Truss the arch Brexiteer.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/liz-truss-uk-e2-80-99s-new-brexit-negotiator-said-leaving-eu-would-spell-economic-disaster/ar-AARZgS7

so same as Frost, originally voted remain.  Can’t even find anyone in favour of Brexit to lead the Brexit negotiations.

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25322 on: December 20, 2021, 01:14:05 pm »
I think it's impossible to get the knock out blow with a populist leader. it's all about attacking the image. making people see him for what he is. Johnson was popular because he made some people feel good, he made some people like him.
Starmer has been attacking his image, the public are now beginning to see him for what he is.
 I think back to Johnsons good old days just a few yrs ago. everyone full of smiles and giggles when he spoke especially when he went into one his Peppa Pig type story. it was embarrassing to watch. I think Johnson will know his days are numbered when he sees his audience sat Stoney faced.

He doesn't get his back benches roaring behind him now which was a huge part of his pantomime previously. He made some nonsensical quip the other day Labour are "Wibble Wobbling"  I think which would have had huge laughter previously just got people looking at themselves shaking their heads.
I agree on the image that's why these parties are so important moved from man of the people to do as I say not as I do.
Alan now every time he gives a Covid briefing it will be constantly brought up kept in the publics consciousness. And completely removes any authority.

Offline chalky52

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25323 on: December 20, 2021, 01:24:38 pm »
Can't imagine who is behind all these Government leaks

https://epaper.thetimes.co.uk/the-times

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25324 on: December 20, 2021, 01:31:34 pm »
Can't imagine who is behind all these Government leaks

https://epaper.thetimes.co.uk/the-times

Sunak is an idiot too.

He's as cowardly as Johnson. Missed a Cobra meeting too.
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25325 on: December 20, 2021, 01:45:11 pm »
Laura Kuenssberg stepping down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58996925

Yet another government resignation....

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25326 on: December 20, 2021, 01:50:01 pm »
Yeah it was defo a party for the kid.

Also I'm sure Johnson's GP will be delighted to see a glass of wine in front of him after Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson had been in the ICU weeks earlier with COVID
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 01:52:05 pm by rafathegaffa83 »

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25327 on: December 20, 2021, 02:00:39 pm »
Also I'm sure Johnson's GP will be delighted to see a glass of wine in front of him after Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson had been in the ICU weeks earlier with COVID

He never had Covid.

No man would continue acting the way he has if they did.
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25328 on: December 20, 2021, 02:04:29 pm »
He never had Covid.

No man would continue acting the way he has if they did.
Oh he did.  He’s just fucking stupid
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25329 on: December 20, 2021, 02:09:26 pm »
Oh he did.  He’s just fucking stupid

I still doubt it.
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25330 on: December 20, 2021, 02:13:55 pm »
I still doubt it.

I simply can't believe that there wouldn't have been someone from the hospital he was in who wouldn't have leaked the information by now - these guys are not exactly good at covering their tracks and if someone at the NHS was told to keep this to themselves and then saw how the pandemic was being handled they would surely have released the information to the press

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25331 on: December 20, 2021, 02:17:59 pm »
I still doubt it.


Oh, he definitely had it. He probably subscribes to that comic-book school of thought: "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Certainly his behaviour since Covid is consistent with that piece of nonsense.
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25332 on: December 20, 2021, 02:43:09 pm »
Laura Kuenssberg stepping down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58996925

Yet another government resignation....
So the photos of her at the party have finally emerged I guess?
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25333 on: December 20, 2021, 02:50:03 pm »
The tories got what they wanted out of Johnson now, right? Brexit, and then he was a convenient idiot at the start of the pandemic, when others would have looked weak too. So time to replace him, before labour get their act together and there's a new election.
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25334 on: December 20, 2021, 02:50:44 pm »
Oh, he definitely had it. He probably subscribes to that comic-book school of thought: "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Certainly his behaviour since Covid is consistent with that piece of nonsense.
he probably had it but I doubt it was as serious as was being made out at the time
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25335 on: December 20, 2021, 02:54:15 pm »
Laura Kuenssberg stepping down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58996925

Yet another government resignation....


Haha! This was rumoured a couple of months ago so not all that surprising. She hasn't been a journalist over the past couple of years, she's been a mouthpiece.



Her and Peston got so close to power and with having a direct line to No 10 they lost sight of their actual roles.

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25336 on: December 20, 2021, 05:56:14 pm »
Laura Kuenssberg stepping down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58996925

Yet another government resignation....

matter of weeks before she's in a role for the Tories, isn't she? her journalism throughout this has just been parroting, truly abysmal.

YNWA.

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25337 on: December 20, 2021, 05:58:49 pm »
I imagine she’s taking over the Sunday morning TV slot.
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25338 on: December 20, 2021, 06:07:21 pm »
I imagine she’s taking over the Sunday morning TV slot.
No apparently not. Can't remember her name but it's the one that looks like Torres. Should have been Maitlis.
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25339 on: December 20, 2021, 06:08:19 pm »
I'd go with the 'photo at the party' theory.
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25340 on: December 20, 2021, 06:09:55 pm »
I imagine she’s taking over the Sunday morning TV slot.

Marr replacement already announced
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25341 on: December 20, 2021, 06:10:59 pm »
No apparently not. Can't remember her name but it's the one that looks like Torres. Should have been Maitlis.

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As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline chalky52

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25342 on: December 20, 2021, 07:13:48 pm »
So let me get this straight SAGE and the other expert government public health advisors are warning that at the current infection levels of Covid the NHS will be overwhelmed in a matter of days and restrictions may already be too late. However because of all the parties all law breaking the Prime Minister has no moral authority to impose them and will be ripped apart for hypocrisy if he tries to "ruin Christmas".

You then have the ultra right wing lunatic fringe (about 1/4 to 1/3) of the Government who are dangerously close to conspiracy theories actively arguing against Public Health Measures and having public attacks against Chris Whittey the Governments own public health advisor which has been jumped on by the likes of the mail and has thrown more fuel on the conspiracy theory fire arguing against experts.

As a result more than likely the NHS will be overwhelmed and we will suffer more unnecessary deaths both Covid and Non Covid what a complete fucking shitshow.

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25343 on: December 20, 2021, 11:20:23 pm »
They've had enough of experts.
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25344 on: December 20, 2021, 11:37:52 pm »
The split at today’s Cabinet in terms of Covid restrictions.

- Pro restrictions now: Sajid Javid, Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove, Simon Clarke

- Anti restrictions: Rishi Sunak, Liz Truss, Stephen Barclay, Grant Shapps, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Kwasi Kwarteng and (ultimately) Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25345 on: December 20, 2021, 11:39:09 pm »
The split at today’s Cabinet in terms of Covid restrictions.

- Pro restrictions now: Sajid Javid, Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove, Simon Clarke

- Anti restrictions: Rishi Sunak, Liz Truss, Stephen Barclay, Grant Shapps, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Kwasi Kwarteng and (ultimately) Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

Nice position for Gove to take up. When/if Johnson gets the push he has this in his armoury.

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25346 on: December 20, 2021, 11:41:20 pm »
Nice position for Gove to take up. When/if Johnson gets the push he has this in his armoury.

Tory membership are nuts though, even more than they used to be with all the UKIP entryists they have had, hence Truss and Sunak firmly on board the no restrictions train.

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25347 on: December 20, 2021, 11:48:15 pm »
According to Polly Toynbee in the Guardian,
"Much worse may happen if the unexpurgated tapes of former No 10 spokesperson Allegra Stratton emerge. Long recordings of her rehearsals exist, reports the Mail on Sunday, where she is thrown all the unanswerable questions about Johnson’s “love children”, “mistresses”, his money and every lifelong wrongdoing. ".

I'm looking forward to those.

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25348 on: December 21, 2021, 12:41:20 am »
The split at today’s Cabinet in terms of Covid restrictions.

- Pro restrictions now: Sajid Javid, Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove, Simon Clarke

- Anti restrictions: Rishi Sunak, Liz Truss, Stephen Barclay, Grant Shapps, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Kwasi Kwarteng and (ultimately) Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

What a bunch of fucking nutters the anti restrictions are. Absolutely maddening that fucking Rees-Mogg is listened to by anyone about anything.

Lots of fence sitters by the sounds of it. Zahawi, Dowden, Dorries etc

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25349 on: December 21, 2021, 06:53:30 am »
According to Polly Toynbee in the Guardian,
"Much worse may happen if the unexpurgated tapes of former No 10 spokesperson Allegra Stratton emerge. Long recordings of her rehearsals exist, reports the Mail on Sunday, where she is thrown all the unanswerable questions about Johnson’s “love children”, “mistresses”, his money and every lifelong wrongdoing. ".

I'm looking forward to those.
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25350 on: December 21, 2021, 07:47:10 am »
Is Chile now the dream?

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25351 on: December 21, 2021, 08:07:22 am »
Is Chile now the dream?

Quite a few nation states heading left as per recent elections.  Germany and Denmark spring to mind and before that of course NZ.  Covid exposing the right globally.

Edit and of course Trump ousted last year.

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25352 on: December 21, 2021, 10:27:59 am »
Quite a few nation states heading left as per recent elections.  Germany and Denmark spring to mind and before that of course NZ.  Covid exposing the right globally.

Edit and of course Trump ousted last year.

A great result in Chile.

It will be interesting to watch Chile's new government. Boric belongs to the Salvador Allende tradition rather than the Castro tradition. Indeed he has been highly critical of Cuba (and Venezuela's) despotism and their human-rights abuses. He has an all-mighty task to replace the Chilean constitution which treats private enterprise as a sacred principle and has helped create one of the most unequal countries on earth.  But he has a huge mandate. Good luck to them.
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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25353 on: December 21, 2021, 11:13:34 am »
A great result in Chile.

It will be interesting to watch Chile's new government. Boric belongs to the Salvador Allende tradition rather than the Castro tradition. Indeed he has been highly critical of Cuba (and Venezuela's) despotism and their human-rights abuses. He has an all-mighty task to replace the Chilean constitution which treats private enterprise as a sacred principle and has helped create one of the most unequal countries on earth.  But he has a huge mandate. Good luck to them.

The constitution is certainly one very important battle.

However the Chilean constutional process will now be very hands off for Boric. Indeed, the hardest battle of actually winning the right to change the constitution is already over. The process is already in motion (via successful referendum - again with a very large mandate of over 70%), with it currently in the hands of an elected constitutional assembly, the outcome of which will be returned to the Chilean people next year for ratification in another referendum.

The big difference between him and Kast in terms of the constitutional process is that Kast and his supporters would have been doing everything in their power to disrupt both the constitutional assembly and the subsequent referendum.

You are also right that his brand of socialism is very much at odds with the strongmen of the continent who he has spoken out against (Indeed the likes of Cuba and Nicaragua are yet to send their well wishes...). That did not stop Kast getting this far by basically fear-mongering that Boric is a Communist-in-disguise, with millions still buying into it.

But Boric undoubtedly has a massive task ahead of him. The Chilean peso has already sank as foreign investors get their obligatory jitters (especially in the relation the massively damaging but highly profitable mining sector).

Their public healthcare system is practically non-existent, their state-education is an appalling mess, their entirely privatised pension system no where near fit for purpose, and the country is still reeling from the pandemic and the social upheavels of 2019.

This is all coupled with an incredibly powerful and very well entrenched ruling class who, if you visit, really do live in a completely paralell reality (Geographically, culturally, politically and socially). Many of whom still see Pinochet as a "necessary evil". Many of them also come from the very conservative Opus Dei branch of Catholicism (hence support for Chile´s punitive abortion laws). Also worth pointing out this ruling class seems to include some of the very worst kinds of "ex-pats" (Brits, American´s and Australian´s especially) - who are predictably already threatening to leave the country.

On the plus side the Cold War is over (although still being waged in the minds of the upper classes!) - which was enough to earn Allende a bullet in the head.

And what a bloody relief that Kast did not win. How depressing that would be!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2021, 11:26:08 am by Indomitable_Carp »

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25354 on: December 21, 2021, 12:34:40 pm »
What a bunch of fucking nutters the anti restrictions are. Absolutely maddening that fucking Rees-Mogg is listened to by anyone about anything.

Lots of fence sitters by the sounds of it. Zahawi, Dowden, Dorries etc

They are terrified of upsetting the far right fascist elements of the ERG
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Offline Robinred

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25355 on: December 21, 2021, 01:03:34 pm »
Notwithstanding my age and LFC, if Gove is the next Tory leader I’m off to Chile.
"The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology...as long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth." Mikhail Bakunin

Offline stewil007

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25356 on: December 21, 2021, 01:04:46 pm »
They are terrified of upsetting the far right fascist elements of the ERG

its not far off civil war would it be fair to say and now theres a lot of MPs who dont know which mast to nail their flag too, Populist Boris or potential newcomer? 

They'll be spinning round in cricles while hopefully taking their eye off the ball.

Online oldfordie

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25357 on: December 21, 2021, 01:29:14 pm »
its not far off civil war would it be fair to say and now theres a lot of MPs who dont know which mast to nail their flag too, Populist Boris or potential newcomer? 

They'll be spinning round in cricles while hopefully taking their eye off the ball.
It's the new Tory MPs who have the biggest dilemma. very few of them would be a MP if it were not for Johnsons popularity. they must have bulging email boxes from constituents calling the party corrupt and incompetent, how they regret voting for them in 2019.
I don't think it's in the Tory party's interest to get rid of Johnson in early new year.
Better to let Johnson take all the s.. exposures and wait till things die down in the Summer maybe. then bring in a new PM who wouldn't face the horrendous daily headlines who would no doubt say the Tory party has acted quickly to clean up it's act. time to move on.
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Offline thaddeus

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25358 on: December 21, 2021, 02:06:47 pm »
The constitution is certainly one very important battle.

However the Chilean constutional process will now be very hands off for Boric. Indeed, the hardest battle of actually winning the right to change the constitution is already over. The process is already in motion (via successful referendum - again with a very large mandate of over 70%), with it currently in the hands of an elected constitutional assembly, the outcome of which will be returned to the Chilean people next year for ratification in another referendum.
What a novel idea.

When people he say Boric isn't your traditional South American socialist (/communist) where would he sit on the European scale of left/right?  I'm guessing more Corbyn's Labour than Starmer's Labour?

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The new old? Polly tickers thread.
« Reply #25359 on: December 21, 2021, 02:42:31 pm »
When people he say Boric isn't your traditional South American socialist (/communist) where would he sit on the European scale of left/right?  I'm guessing more Corbyn's Labour than Starmer's Labour?

It's impossible to give a firm answer to something like that. Political conditions and political culture in Chile are very different to the UK. They have suffered in recent memory from living under a political dictatorship. Our last experience of that was the 17th century. The Chilean economy is obviously much different too.

What we can say is that Boric's critical attitude to the Cuban and Venezuelan dictatorships is more in line with the traditional democratic socialism of the Labour party than it is with Corbyn's snivelling apologias for those regimes. 
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.