Topic: Welcome Adrian

[Jm55]

I’m sorry but I’m not having that just because a backup keeper is a difficult position to recruit for that Adrian is therefore the best we can get.

Juve have got Buffon.

Granted I’m using an extreme example but Bayern had Reina, Madrid Dudek, I know that none of the keeper’s ve mentioned are without fault but the point I’m getting at is that when you’re a club the calibre of us, there will be plenty of keepers willing to take a subordinate role.

I’ve been fairly relaxed about Adrian on the assumption that he plays in the domestic cup matches and the very rare occasions that Alisson is out - but the reality is it’s not a very rare occasion anymore, I’d imagine that other than Gomez,Chamberlain, Matip and maybe Henderson he’s been injured more than any current squad member? Now I’m not saying he’s injury prone as to be fair I think the majority have been isolated random incidents but the fact is we now don’t have Alisson for the next 4-6 weeks and if Adrian is going to be the solution to that then it’s going to be a testing time to say the least.

He was brilliant when we first signed him but I’m starting to wonder whether he was riding the crest of a wave following that Super Cup win and what we’re now seeing is closer to his level.

[duvva 💅]

The "supporters" slaughtering Karius didn't make a blind bit of difference, what made the difference was Klopp saw the opportunity to buy the best keeper in the world and took it. Klopp does not listen to the crying arses on social media or on forums, he makes his decisions based on what is in front of him. If he feels he can get a better No2 than Adrian, then he will, if he looks around and sees no-one better then he won't change.

The ONLY impact supporters can have is on the player himself. Slaughter him on his social media, slag him in the grounds (when allowed in) and this can affect them mentally, but the manager will not be swayed.

What us as Liverpool Supporters are supposed to do is fully back the players on the pitch, give them all the backing we can - by all means discuss it on a forum, without resorting to hatred, but keep it off twatter, phone ins and shite like that.

Anyone who cannot behave towards a current Liverpool player needs to fuck off out of our fanbase and go and pollute some other fanbase with their bile.

Is the right response

[B0151?]

It's a strange one though. Why wouldn't we improve on him if he's so obviously a weakness? We replaced Mignolet and then Karius, and have done similar with numerous outfield players.

[Ste08]

At no point with him have I been convinced. All we need from a backup is a steady safe pair of hands and hes a nervous wreck. Id be looking to bring someone in if Alisson injury is bad if not give one of the younger keepers a chance.

[The G in Gerrard]

He shouldn't play against Everton. Sorry.

[Knight]

Went through this with Mignolet so not massively up to arguing about it again but when you see a shitshow of a defence with defenders playing way below their level you’re missing the point if you’re posting ‘it’s not on the keeper’ - you’re misunderstanding how back line work

As for Adrian as an individual
We can’t play with a keeper who doesn’t / can’t sweep
The gap between the back line and him is a yawning chasm. If we drop the line to counter this we can no longer press as we want to. He massively affects how we play

Aside from style he’s a mile off where we need him to be. His save analytics are some of the worst in the league and his distribution is horrible

People will point to positive results we’ve had with him in goal. We’re an outstanding team so we’ll have great results whoever is in goal. But you can take his best period in the side (the start of last season) and look at our actual performances not just results. Since then it’s been a downhill slide and right now he looks totally lost as a player regardless of ability

He really should have been moved on at the end of last season.
It’s a situation that requires ruthlessness simply because he’s always one player away from the first team.

If he doesn't sweep then what were we thinking in bringing him in? Error prone and stylistically totally wrong, a disaster waiting to happen on so many levels.

[jepovic]

The comparisons with Karius and Maignolet are weird, because they were starters. It's really hard to find a top keeper that is willing to sit years on the bench. We could pay well, but from the player's perspective it still means 1) not playing, 2) having a hard time getting a good contract afterwards. Becker is young and a top keeper, so there's really no realistic path for any keeper to get to the first team (except injuries). So we could get someone close to retirement or a young talent, but none of those would mean having a guaranteed top level option. Good players want to play.

Even if we had a better keeper, it's not easy to stay fit on the bench. For a Liverpool keeper, it's not even easy to get in shape by playing, since we often dominate so much.

[Oskar]

It's a strange one though. Why wouldn't we improve on him if he's so obviously a weakness? We replaced Mignolet and then Karius, and have done similar with numerous outfield players.

Because ideally he'd only play in the domestic cups, which don't seem to be much of a priority for Klopp.

We replaced Mignolet and Karius with new numbers ones - we've now got the best number one in the world, the issue is we're facing another season where he's going to miss a number of PL and CL games so we're relying on a backup to play in important games and he's become worryingly error-prone.

[koptommy93]

6 weeks with him. God help us.

[B0151?]

Because ideally he'd only play in the domestic cups, which don't seem to be much of a priority for Klopp.

We replaced Mignolet and Karius with new numbers ones - we've now got the best number one in the world, the issue is we're facing another season where he's going to miss a number of PL and CL games so we're relying on a backup to play in important games and he's become worryingly error-prone.

I guess maybe it just down to Klopp's judgement call, but we have a whole analytics and transfer team who are all about getting the absolute maximum out of everything we can, so it seems strange we've just settled for him

[newterp]

Any truth to the rumor we want Gazzaniga from Spurs? He’s out of favor there.

[koptommy93]

Any truth to the rumor we want Gazzaniga from Spurs? He’s out of favor there.

Spurs guy from the athletic said it's bollocks.

[B0151?]

Opta stats: Adrián has made five errors directly leading to opposition goals in his 21 appearances for Liverpool in all competitions; as many as counterpart Alisson has in 92 such matches.

That doesn't even account for his general shit aura and panic that he causes.

He makes me nervous but I don't buy that he causes panic. I think our team is made of stronger stuff.

Or maybe not, our defence has made a few errors so far this season with Alli behind them

We would be blaming Adrian for Robertson's mistake against Arsenal, or van Dijk's mistake against Leeds if he'd been in goal

I would suggest our defence has been doing more to make their goalkeeper panic than the other way around so far this season.

[TipTopKop]

He really should have been moved on at the end of last season.
It’s a situation that requires ruthlessness simply because he’s always one player away from the first team.

Agreed.

[Jon2lfc]

He's a decent keeper with PL experience.

The solution is simple.
If he's a bit shaky with playing it out from the back then he should be told to launch it instead.
And if he's not comfortable being a sweeper-keeper then the defence should be told to drop back a little deeper to help him out.
The other option is to drop him for a keeper who can do what Allison does. But we don't have that option so the defence need to help out their keeper in the interim.

Otherwise we will concede more goals than we score which won't ensure we win many matches.

We will always score goals. So the problem that needs to be addressed is our defence. Not just Adrian.

I've played in goal myself and know that without your defence helping you out you are up shit creek if the other team have a decent attack.

[macmanamanaman]

I hope we don't bin Adrian.
He's perfectly adequate as a backup.

Instead, the solution is
A. to be cognizant that he's not Becker and adapt our defensive line a bit to ensure he is not exposed
B. Drill it into him to fking tonk the ball forward instead of short tiki taka in his own box

We might lose a bit offensively but hey, against most teams we ll still have enough for the win over the full 90.

[rossipersempre]

Adrian deserves to be dropped/demoted. For his own benefit and more importantly, that of the team.

Kelleher now deserves a PL start. For his own benefit and more importantly, that of the team.

Meritocracy is essential to our squad's morale and success.

[macmanamanaman]

He's a decent keeper with PL experience.

The solution is simple.
If he's a bit shaky with playing it out from the back then he should be told to launch it instead.
And if he's not comfortable being a sweeper-keeper then the defence should be told to drop back a little deeper to help him out.
The other option is to drop him for a keeper who can do what Allison does. But we don't have that option so the defence need to help out their keeper in the interim.

Otherwise we will concede more goals than we score which won't ensure we win many matches.

We will always score goals. So the problem that needs to be addressed is our defence. Not just Adrian.

I've played in goal myself and know that without your defence helping you out you are up shit creek if the other team have a decent attack.

Nice! More or less posted the same line of thinking as you, concurrently.
Great minds

[Jookie]

He makes me nervous but I don't buy that he causes panic. I think our team is made of stronger stuff.

Or maybe not, our defence has made a few errors so far this season with Alli behind them

We would be blaming Adrian for Robertson's mistake against Arsenal, or van Dijk's mistake against Leeds if he'd been in goal

I would suggest our defence has been doing more to make their goalkeeper panic than the other way around so far this season.

I'd agree with this.

I don't think Adrian is good enough. There's no getting away from the fact he cost us CL last season and the 1st goal last night was his fault.

However, it's too simple and easy to pin the defeat last night on him and his initial mistake. We were so poor throughout. As you say, there's been individual mistakes from the defence throughout the last 10-15 competitive games. Robertson's had the Arsenal one, van Dijk as couple, Alisson and Adrian, Gomez has had more than the odd one, Trent hasn't covered himself in glory with his defending at times. Collectively we haven't be good enough off the ball in some games. That combined with individual mistakes throughout the backline is not something we've had with any regularity in recent years but has started to creep in over the last few months.

[koptommy93]

Adrian deserves to be dropped/demoted. For his own benefit and more importantly, that of the team.

Kelleher now deserves a PL start. For his own benefit and more importantly, that of the team.

Meritocracy is essential to our squad's morale and success.

Kelleher is nowhere near the level of Adrian. Giving him his first league start away in the derby when they're the form team in the league is a dreadful idea.

[Samie]

Adrian deserves to be dropped/demoted. For his own benefit and more importantly, that of the team.

Kelleher now deserves a PL start. For his own benefit and more importantly, that of the team.

Meritocracy is essential to our squad's morale and success.

I would even consider the new Brazilian kid. If he's supposed to be the next great keeper from South America put him in there for a baptism of fire and see how he copes.

[rossipersempre]

I hope we don't bin Adrian.
He's perfectly adequate as a backup.

Instead, the solution is
A. to be cognizant that he's not Becker and adapt our defensive line a bit to ensure he is not exposed
B. Drill it into him to fking tonk the ball forward instead of short tiki taka in his own box

We might lose a bit offensively but hey, against most teams we ll still have enough for the win over the full 90.

He did it against Atletico and Chelsea back in March and cost us the match in both. The Atletico match was unforgivable IMO given what he did, unnecessarily risked the team's hard-won control of the tie for little gain other than showboating.

At what point do you accept "drilling into him" isn't the answer? Like Pickford, it's his own over-inflated sense of his abilities that is proving fatal.

[plura]

I hope we don't bin Adrian.
He's perfectly adequate as a backup.

Instead, the solution is
A. to be cognizant that he's not Becker and adapt our defensive line a bit to ensure he is not exposed
B. Drill it into him to fking tonk the ball forward instead of short tiki taka in his own box

We might lose a bit offensively but hey, against most teams we ll still have enough for the win over the full 90.

I wouldn't say he's perfectly adequate due to the reasons you said yourself. We need to alter our game massively to adjust for Adrian's shortcomings. Which might A: be more difficult to do than just flip a switch and B: have big effects on our overall play, and ability to get results.
The other big, big reason for me why he's not "perfectly adequate" is that he doesn't instil confidence in the team. Like with Mignolet towards the end, his inabilities echoed over the pitch and I think it had big effects on the team.

Like with VVD he's obviously a great defender, but his impact on the team was more than just good defending. His confidence, attitude and leadership made everyone better. The opposite with Adrian has sometimes the opposite effect.

[rossipersempre]

I wouldn't say he's perfectly adequate due to the reasons you said yourself. We need to alter our game massively to adjust for Adrian's shortcomings. Which might A: be more difficult to do than just flip a switch and B: have big effects on our overall play, and ability to get results.
The other big, big reason for me why he's not "perfectly adequate" is that he doesn't instil confidence in the team. Like with Mignolet towards the end, his inabilities echoed over the pitch and I think it had big effects on the team.

Like with VVD he's obviously a great defender, but his impact on the team was more than just good defending. His confidence, attitude and leadership made everyone better. The opposite with Adrian has sometimes the opposite effect.

Exactly this. He has a detrimental effect on the back four, and that becomes some sort of negative feedback loop that's difficult to overcome. That's why in team sports, sometimes you're only as good as your weakest link.

[Oskar]

I guess maybe it just down to Klopp's judgement call, but we have a whole analytics and transfer team who are all about getting the absolute maximum out of everything we can, so it seems strange we've just settled for him

I think he just ticked the boxes at the time - he was available, didn't cost anything and didn't mind being a backup.

We've had to use him a lot more than we would have anticipated and that's made him a bigger issue than he should be because he's making mistakes in games that we ideally wouldn't want him playing in.

[macmanamanaman]

He did it against Atletico and Chelsea back in March and cost us the match in both. The Atletico match was unforgivable IMO given what he did, unnecessarily risked the team's club for little gain other than showboating.

At what point do you accept "drilling into him" isn't the answer? Like Pickford, it's his own over-inflated sense of his abilities that is proving fatal.

The cup and CL errors infuriated me at the time.
But I am not sure its a lost cause with Adrian.
Reconciling with the fact that we lose a little of counter attack or controlled posession, we can "drill it in" to go long every time.
At present,  he may be operating on the same instructions he may have from training for the "best keeper for the system". Which he clearly isn't. 

But he's also not the worst, at least not to the extent that the last few posts are implying.

Order him to play safe. Just to be a stopper, not a sweeper. And see where it gets us.
If he explicitly refuses to follow the orders then of course he knows the outcome.

[rossipersempre]

I think he just ticked the boxes at the time - he was available, didn't cost anything and didn't mind being a backup.

That same criteria was used for Andy Lonergan on a short-term contract.

[macmanamanaman]

Example in defense of Adrian: Saved 1vs1 with hat trick hero yesterday.

[rossipersempre]

He's had a couple of howlers himself this year but still, just leaving this here for discussion...



Signed by Lazio as their No.2 six weeks ago on a two-year perm deal.

[Carra-ton]

Kelleher can do everything Adrian can do many times better. So why do we need another keeper. Is it experience, well the experience Adrian has isn't helping him. I am sure Kelleher can do a better job. I would put Pitaluga in before Adrian now.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Reina is shit.

[Samie]

Rossi mate, this is 2020 not 2007. 

[MichaelA]

He's a decent enough keeper. But he needs to check the ego in when the whistle goes. He also needs to hire a small off grid hermitage, reflect on his journey as a person, and then make a low budget self filmed documentary about the critical function of humility and asceticism in the life of a modern footballer.

[Carra-ton]

For people saying Adrian is fine, check this. He is the worst in the league, while Alisson is the best. You can't have that big a gap. Yesterday's result is not on him alone, but we need better. And Kelleher is better.

[rossipersempre]

Rossi mate, this is 2020 not 2007. 

I know   just making a point about the "Adrian is what you expect from a No.2" nonsense.

Right now, Reina or Adrian, who would you feel safer with?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

the mistakes he has made is his relatively little game time is incredible.

Remember Southampton last year. Even when we beat Arsenal at Anfield last season he kicked a ball straight to an Arsenal forward.
Huge part on getting knocked out of FA Cup & CL.

Mistake against Lincoln as well. He is nearly guaranteed one huge error a game.
No wonder he celebrates our trophies with no shame. It is like he won the lottery to be in our squad.

Look he was shite yesterday but last season he was a massive reason we won the league,so cut this revisionist bollocks out.

Nobody on the planet will be hurting as much as Adrian today.

[Carra-ton]

Look he was shite yesterday but last season he was a massive reason we won the league,so cut this revisionist bollocks out.

We won despite him, I don't think he did much any other keeper wouldn't have done. Check the stats above.

[rossipersempre]

Reina is shit.

You mean old and past it. Shit? Lazio clearly don't think so.

[DelTrotter]

Look he was shite yesterday but last season he was a massive reason we won the league,so cut this revisionist bollocks out.

 

[Alisson Wonderland]

Any truth to the rumor we want Gazzaniga from Spurs? He’s out of favor there.

Gazzaniga is no better than Adrian but if there was any truth in this it might be worth doing on a short term basis.  The defence have totally lost confidence in Adrian and it is a big ask to put a young keeper in against Everton.  I can't see it happening.