Author Topic: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*) (Read 468999 times)

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #4680 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:14:45 pm »

If you can fine it, Wade Keller seems to have the inside line on Tony Khans view on Cody - basically

no one backstage liked Brandi,

Brandi wanted a much bigger push than she got (talks of title picture)

Cody become distant spending big money, he was "in his lockeroom or in his bus, not interacting with people".

Cody wanted money on the level of Punk/Bryan/Jericho/Moxley and Khan didn't seem him as worth it.

Also says the whole weird character from Cody wasn't a slow heel turn, but instead Cody doing a weird meta narrative and refusing to turn, and his reactions devalued him in Tony's eyes.

Was also mention that Cody got somewhat upset when Khan took the reigns from him and the Bucks and Kenny

Now of course, take this all with a pinch of salt as one sides argument, but yeah seemed as though relations somewhat strained and Tony didn't think Cody was worth what he was asking. Keller does in fact seem to be the guy Tony talks to (like how the Bucks and Jericho clearly talk to Meltzer and SRS talks to Ethan Page and I believe Ricky Starks)

tubby · « **Reply #4681 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:16:26 pm »

Yeah that's real pinch of salt stuff, but I can totally buy the bits about Brandi being a bit of a pain backstage and Cody stubbornly refusing to turn heel when it was so obviously what was needed.

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #4682 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:20:19 pm »

Quote from: tubby on February 16, 2022, 04:16:26 pm

Yeah that's real pinch of salt stuff, but I can totally buy the bits about Brandi being a bit of a pain backstage and Cody stubbornly refusing to turn heel when it was so obviously what was needed.

There has been talk of distance between Cody and the EVP for a while, and the big money spending is true for sure. How true the extent of feeling is is of course for debate.

I think for sure Cody asked for more than Tony was willing to give - whether that was unreasonable or not is up for question, and whether it was a bad faith offer from either side either (Cody wants to go so really high balls Tony, or vice versa)

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #4683 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:23:15 pm »

Listening to Cody's weird Ladder Match promo now in hindsight is super odd because it now makes more sense jn that he has digs in there - digs against punk, against new signings, against the crowd, and against Tony. All somewhat subtle but really there.

The lines about the Forbidden Door, the crowd jeering him, and "Tony taking the Baton and running with it" look like swipes in hindsight.

tubby · « **Reply #4684 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:24:10 pm »

If he wanted to be a face so bad then he should never have got that god awful tattoo.

El Lobo · « **Reply #4685 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:30:46 pm »

The uncomfortable truth being that he's probably got fair points... This is always going to be the problem, you keep buying more shiny toys and not only do the old toys get neglected but even the less shiny slightly older new toys too. Its an age old problem in wrestling, the big promotions (and absolutely include AEW in that) tend to sign whoever they can, regardless of if they should or not. Since the Attitude era, when WWF, WCW and ECW were all strong, I think only WWE for a couple of years managed to have a properly stacked roster and make it work.

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #4686 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:31:06 pm »

The fucking worst. Like there's arguments to be had of that whole timing of it was a means of conserving some heat when he is putting a new guy over, because people don't talk about the MJF win that night but the fucking Tattoo

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #4687 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:37:58 pm »

Quote from: El Lobo on February 16, 2022, 04:30:46 pm

The uncomfortable truth being that he's probably got fair points... This is always going to be the problem, you keep buying more shiny toys and not only do the old toys get neglected but even the less shiny slightly older new toys too. Its an age old problem in wrestling, the big promotions (and absolutely include AEW in that) tend to sign whoever they can, regardless of if they should or not. Since the Attitude era, when WWF, WCW and ECW were all strong, I think only WWE for a couple of years managed to have a properly stacked roster and make it work.

Yeah there is certainly a point, but by the same degree of course he is going to be below Punk and Bryan and Jericho and Moxley. That's like Bobby Lashley getting a cob on that Brock Lesnar takes his spot. It wasn't your Keith Lee's that took his spot it was those guys, and AEW absolutely should have signed them all because they are top names and willing to go.

Also if Cody was pushing this current character, and he wasn't building to a heel turn, well he did himself no favors. MJF, Hangman, Darby, and recently to a lesser extent, Sammy and Jungle Boy worked hard to make themselves main eventers with these stars still there. Kenny and the Bucks kept themselves looking fresh at this time. If Cody refuses to move from a character which isn't landing it's his own fault really.

If that's what happened. Pinch of Salt and all that.

El Lobo · « **Reply #4688 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:39:58 pm »

Oh yeah he's always been a bit of a dick hasn't he? Seems to have a mega chip on his shoulder because of who his dad was.

Sheer Magnetism · « **Reply #4689 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:41:26 pm »

Quote from: El Lobo on February 16, 2022, 04:30:46 pm

The uncomfortable truth being that he's probably got fair points... This is always going to be the problem, you keep buying more shiny toys and not only do the old toys get neglected but even the less shiny slightly older new toys too. Its an age old problem in wrestling, the big promotions (and absolutely include AEW in that) tend to sign whoever they can, regardless of if they should or not. Since the Attitude era, when WWF, WCW and ECW were all strong, I think only WWE for a couple of years managed to have a properly stacked roster and make it work.

It wasn't neglect though, was it? Cody was more focused on his reality show, and when he was there his promo work was confusing and his decisions around his character self defeating. I'm not saying it isn't true for other members of the roster, just that it isn't applicable in this case. Centring the booking around Cody made sense in the beginning but why would you continue to do so when your roster is so much stronger now?

Barefoot Doctor · « **Reply #4690 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:45:42 pm »

Tony Khan giving briefings to friendly journalists to badmouth an outgoing wrestler heading to a rival company? He's becoming more like Vince

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #4691 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:46:33 pm »

Quote from: El Lobo on February 16, 2022, 04:39:58 pm

Oh yeah he's always been a bit of a dick hasn't he? Seems to have a mega chip on his shoulder because of who his dad was.

One of the comments Keller made was that maybe Cody was in the same stage Dusty was of spending money he didn't have, or spending money he expected to get.

But again this is all in the mudslinging between Tony and Cody.

tubby · « **Reply #4692 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:48:23 pm »

Quote from: Barefoot Doctor on February 16, 2022, 04:45:42 pm

Tony Khan giving briefings to friendly journalists to badmouth an outgoing wrestler heading to a rival company? He's becoming more like Vince

He's got a loooong way to go on that front, but his obvious coke habit should help.

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #4693 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:49:19 pm »

Quote from: Barefoot Doctor on February 16, 2022, 04:45:42 pm

Tony Khan giving briefings to friendly journalists to badmouth an outgoing wrestler heading to a rival company? He's becoming more like Vince

You gotta be a carny to run in this business, no other way

I will give some credit that he is a tad more subtle than WWE with Ryan Satin and that ThisisNasty dude for Forbes

Quote from: tubby on February 16, 2022, 04:48:23 pm

He's got a loooong way to go on that front, but his obvious coke habit should help.

As long as we sign Carvalho he can have as much of the stuff as he wants. There's some Liverpool branded stuff, he may be interested in lieu of tribunal

El Lobo · « **Reply #4694 on:** February 16, 2022, 04:55:08 pm »

Quote from: Sheer Magnetism on February 16, 2022, 04:41:26 pm

It wasn't neglect though, was it? Cody was more focused on his reality show, and when he was there his promo work was confusing and his decisions around his character self defeating. I'm not saying it isn't true for other members of the roster, just that it isn't applicable in this case. Centring the booking around Cody made sense in the beginning but why would you continue to do so when your roster is so much stronger now?

Another problem right there. Quite often other people know best. The whole 'AEW is unscripted, we can say what we want' seems daft to me when wrestlers are pretty much all egomaniacs. There's no middle ground between AEWS 'do what you want' and WWEs 'we're only doing it this way, you WILL wear that pink wig and tutu and then be in a tag team with Randy Orton'

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #4695 on:** February 16, 2022, 05:01:02 pm »

Some people flourish, and it is true Tony did start editing a for AEW as booker with final say, but the core work is still largely unstructured, and that doesn't work for some people. Some people start bad and get better (Miro) some people hit the ground running with it (Bryan Danielson twice as a face and a heel), and some people just never get it. I do think AEW does need some more structure for certain people who can't get the whole thing, who haven't got the mind for it.

I don't think anyone in wrestling has ever actually found that middle ground. Not in America at least. The best there was is the Attitude era which was by in large a committee of Russo, Shane, and Vince, with all 3 pulling each other into a compromise which worked for the time and place. Individually they all were just not as good to varying degrees.

Riquende · « **Reply #4696 on:** February 16, 2022, 05:36:02 pm »

Back in the 'good old days', before the cross-promotion antagonism that grew out of the MNW, talent seemed to flip between WWF/WCW fairly commonly (the traditional route was to get fired for drugs abuse), and I don't remember fans thinking much of it. Yet another wedge in society that people want to argue the toss over.

AEW and the current WWE appear to have vastly differing philosophies around how the business should be conducted. From a talent perspective, the opportunity to be a huge name (even one with appeal outside of wrestling) will be a huge draw to WWE for some, but they have to be willing to play it WWE's way - most will lose their name, gimmick, and any creative input into their careers. For some, this is probably a boon - they can go in the ring, but need a team of writers to shape their personalities. They also need to accept the frequency of WWE's talent culls and that they might be part of that.

Others will want the sort of career AEW can offer, and thrive in that situation.

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #4697 on:** February 16, 2022, 07:44:38 pm »

Sounds like Buddy Matthews (Buddy Murphy) is joining AEW.

This one I am honestly not sure about - he is pretty good a wrestler but I feel there is better out there, even among the WWE Releases

gazzalfc · « **Reply #4698 on:** February 16, 2022, 07:47:20 pm »

Quote from: Barefoot Doctor on February 16, 2022, 04:45:42 pm

Tony Khan giving briefings to friendly journalists to badmouth an outgoing wrestler heading to a rival company? He's becoming more like Vince

Lets see what uncle Dave Meltzer has to say.

tubby · « **Reply #4699 on:** February 16, 2022, 08:02:13 pm »

Quote from: Stockholm Syndrome on February 16, 2022, 07:44:38 pm

Sounds like Buddy Matthews (Buddy Murphy) is joining AEW.

This one I am honestly not sure about - he is pretty good a wrestler but I feel there is better out there, even among the WWE Releases

Why bring in Kenny Omega at home when you have Kenny Omega. Unless he's joining up with his buddy in the House of Black.

Think he's a decent worker, but he's someone who'll be exposed when he doesn't have the WWE formula helping him out.

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #4700 on:** February 16, 2022, 08:44:07 pm »

Jake Atlas unfortunately did suffer a torn ACL in his match against Adam Cole. Will be out for a bit, but still young so hopefully can make a big return and grow

tubby · « **Reply #4701 on:** February 16, 2022, 08:52:07 pm »

That's really shitty news, hopefully doesn't rush back and just takes it slow and sensibly. I do wonder if he could lose a little weight, considering his style. He's a chunky boy and that can't be fun for his knees.

Barefoot Doctor · « **Reply #4702 on:** February 17, 2022, 09:59:30 am »

What do you think they'll do with Cody back in WWE? I read that the plan is to push him hard, which makes sense - as petty as Vince is, surely they'll want to show AEW talents that they won't just be buried if they make the move.

Struggle to even think who his first feud would be with. Only thing that came to mind was Cody/Brandi versus Miz/Maryse

which doesn't seem entirely unlikely.

OsirisMVZ · « **Reply #4703 on:** February 17, 2022, 10:09:56 am »

Everyone in WWE will be so excited to see Cody come back... until he's 30 seconds into his first match.

Riquende · « **Reply #4704 on:** February 17, 2022, 10:55:18 am »

Revolution 2022 card really does seem to be coming together now...

Adam/The Other Adam - World title
Jurassic Express/Bucks/reDragon - Tag title (so this isn't announced, but there really isn't another explanation for the announcement of the 3 way match, qualifying process and promo from both teams afterward)
MJF/Punk - Dog collar match
Moxley/Danielson
Jericho/Kingston
Thunder Rosa/Britt Baker - Womens title
Andrade/Sammy Guevera - TNT title
Keith Lee/Wardlow/4 others TBC - Face of the Revolution match

Some of these might not be singles matches as they have wider storylines going on around them, but it's the clear nucleus of something happening. That's 8 matches, I assume Jade will defend the TBS title on the buy-in, and there might be time to squeeze something else in.

Stockholm Syndrome · « **Reply #4705 on:** February 17, 2022, 05:36:19 pm »

Quote from: Riquende on February 17, 2022, 10:55:18 am

Revolution 2022 card really does seem to be coming together now...

Adam/The Other Adam - World title
Jurassic Express/Bucks/reDragon - Tag title (so this isn't announced, but there really isn't another explanation for the announcement of the 3 way match, qualifying process and promo from both teams afterward)
MJF/Punk - Dog collar match
Moxley/Danielson
Jericho/Kingston
Thunder Rosa/Britt Baker - Womens title
Andrade/Sammy Guevera - TNT title
Keith Lee/Wardlow/4 others TBC - Face of the Revolution match

Some of these might not be singles matches as they have wider storylines going on around them, but it's the clear nucleus of something happening. That's 8 matches, I assume Jade will defend the TBS title on the buy-in, and there might be time to squeeze something else in.

Rampage spoilers

Spoiler

Hobbs beat Dante Martin to be added to the ladder match, which seems interesting to me as it means the ladder match so far is all big scary dudes - and I honestly would be interested to see what a ladder match looks like with just Hioses

[close]

Skeeve · « **Reply #4706 on:** February 18, 2022, 04:35:01 am »

Quote from: OsirisMVZ on February 15, 2022, 10:52:39 am

I don't want to see Stone Cold challenging himself to have a modern match the way Goldberg, HBK etc have done over the last few years and get dropped on their head repeatedly. Non-match or a 10 second one which only involves a kick and a Stunner is the best option.

Ideal non-match would be finding some reason for Austin to come out during a KO match that ends with them both doing stunners on the opponents to end it, quick beer salute between the two of them before Austin turns on KO and stunners him too.

tubby · « **Reply #4707 on:** February 18, 2022, 12:38:08 pm »

EC3 and Braun have started their own wrestling promotion...? And think they have a TV deal lined up. This is going to be a car crash.

I've been a good boy · « **Reply #4708 on:** February 18, 2022, 08:07:57 pm »

Quote from: tubby on February 18, 2022, 12:38:08 pm

EC3 and Braun have started their own wrestling promotion...? And think they have a TV deal lined up. This is going to be a car crash.

Ah yes I was just about to mention that we needed a new wrestling company, not enough of them at the moment.

arfy05 · « **Reply #4709 on:** February 18, 2022, 11:12:44 pm »

Observer Annual Awards came out. AEW won like 90%+ of all awards. Make of that what you will

tubby · « **Reply #4710 on:** February 19, 2022, 09:48:16 am »

Quote from: arfy05 on February 18, 2022, 11:12:44 pm

Observer Annual Awards came out. AEW won like 90%+ of all awards. Make of that what you will

Wrestling fans like AEW and read the Observer, WWE fans like sports entertainment.

sinnermichael · « **Reply #4711 on:** February 19, 2022, 10:15:25 am »

Undertaker finally inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2022.

Riquende · « **Reply #4712 on:** February 19, 2022, 10:51:44 am »

Quote from: Stockholm Syndrome on February 17, 2022, 05:36:19 pm

Rampage spoilers

Spoiler
Hobbs beat Dante Martin to be added to the ladder match, which seems interesting to me as it means the ladder match so far is all big scary dudes - and I honestly would be interested to see what a ladder match looks like with just Hioses
[close]

I don't do spoilers so have had to wait for this, but yeah. I had a quick check on the roster to see who else could fill it out, some of the more obvious are already involved or likely involved in things, but you could give a nod to Archer, Dustin Rhodes, Nick Comoroto etc. Hell, give Brian Cage one last runout.

Looking at my earlier list, I think we might get Jay White/Orange Cassidy on the card? Or something that also involves Best Friends? All of White's obvious allies are likely spoken for already, but if I read things correctly he's leader of some faction or other in his own right...

Elsewhere, Sammy/Andrade is next week on Dynamite so that can come off the list, although not sure what that means for Sammy at the PPV. Maybe he doesn't have a match and gets involved in Jericho's business.

There's also the Knights/Kings of the Black Throne to consider, although they do have a big match against Pac/Penta this upcoming week, and Fenix isn't due back yet.

tubby · « **Reply #4713 on:** February 19, 2022, 03:01:49 pm »

Think I saw somewhere that the plan is for Jay White vs OC. Assume Sammy vs Andrade ends with Darby getting involved, maybe a three way for the title at the PPV?

Barefoot Doctor · « **Reply #4714 on:** February 20, 2022, 10:24:31 am »

Title back on Brock at the Saudi show, so him versus Roman is a champion versus champion match. And apparently Lashley is out for four months, which would help explain the move to get the belt off him.

Presume it’s Charlotte/Ronda main eventing night one of Mania and Roman/Brock main eventing night two.

bird_lfc · « **Reply #4715 on:** February 20, 2022, 12:27:00 pm »

Curious. I was quite young during the attitude area and never really took notice of the ‘booking’ that much

The same way Roman and Brock are slated for ‘burying’ other wrestling’s during the Chamber for example, has it not always been like this with the top guys?

Austin used to run down to the ring and clean house regularly. Imagine if Brock interrupted a mid card tag match and beat them all now - people would be going insane online

tubby · « **Reply #4716 on:** February 20, 2022, 02:11:03 pm »

Typed out a reply to this but then deleted because I didn't actually watch any of it, so I dunno. What happened with Roman and Brock, did they just run straight through people at the PPV?

Barefoot Doctor · « **Reply #4717 on:** February 20, 2022, 03:11:23 pm »

Quote from: tubby on February 20, 2022, 02:11:03 pm

Typed out a reply to this but then deleted because I didn't actually watch any of it, so I dunno. What happened with Roman and Brock, did they just run straight through people at the PPV?

Roman beat Goldberg. And Lesnar was the final entrant in the Chamber match and got the pin on everyone (Rollins, Styles, Riddle, Theory). Lashley was in the match but got ‘concussed’ after Lesnar threw someone into his chamber pod, then was pulled from the match - cover for a genuine injury apparently. Apparently the Chamber match only went 15 mins, which is quite incredible.

tubby · « **Reply #4718 on:** February 20, 2022, 03:13:27 pm »

Doesn't sound too bad, but it does sound like they need to build up more credible main event challengers.

LiamG · « **Reply #4719 on:** February 20, 2022, 04:05:21 pm »

Quote from: Barefoot Doctor on February 20, 2022, 10:24:31 am

Title back on Brock at the Saudi show, so him versus Roman is a champion versus champion match. And apparently Lashley is out for four months, which would help explain the move to get the belt off him.

Presume it’s Charlotte/Ronda main eventing night one of Mania and Roman/Brock main eventing night two.

It's still going to be over two nights?