Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[Ghost Town]

People interviewed in chippys should run the country cos like they'd just get it done ".. yeah ...leave..just do it...yes salt and plenty of vinegar please".." yes prime minister"

Just get on viv it. We dont need them. We got plenty of sparrers in the garden and we can eat the grass off the golf course and grow tatties in the bathtub and eat all the shit the Yanks will flood us with. And we can eat all the unemployed, there'll be loads of them. We won a war din we?

[TepidT2O]

I just can’t understand this ‘just get on with it’ mentality.  We did it failed.

Withdraw article 50 and spend real time coming up with a plan.

Trying to do this so quickly was always going to fail.

[oldfordie]

I can see school children in this country moaning during history lessons in 100yrs time.
offs not Brexit again sir, how f..long did this shit go on for on for.
Keep quiet Jones, everyone open their books to page 432 Chapter 25, Brexit means Brexit.

[Ghost Town]

Some light (but pertinent) relief to end/start your day with. Well even deluded gutless grandpas love a singsong, right?

https://twitter.com/MitchBenn/status/1089159494184198144

What IS the point of Jeremy Corbyn?

[Machae]

I can see school children in this country moaning during history lessons in 100yrs time.
offs not Brexit again sir, how f..long did this shit go on for on for.
Keep quiet Jones, everyone open their books to page 432 Chapter 25, Brexit means Brexit.

😂

[ShakaHislop]

I just can’t understand this ‘just get on with it’ mentality.  We did it failed.

Withdraw article 50 and spend real time coming up with a plan.

Trying to do this so quickly was always going to fail.

The Brexiteers don't need any more time. They know the trade-offs involved with Brexit. If they're not prepared to accept them, that's their problem.

[Ghost Town]

Am I the only one beginning to have some doubts as to whether the ERG mob actually WANT to Leave? They love sniping from the sidelines and blaming everything on the EU, and claiming things would be better if went back to the days of Empire etc etc.

But some of them aren't stupid; they know that if we do leave then they would have to actually make things work; that there'll be no hiding place for them when the shit hits the fan, as it surely will do if we leave.

Rather like Corbyn, maybe they are only really good for sitting on the sidelines and snarking and causing disruption, and that all that fun will be over once we leave.

I can't help but think back to the ashen faces of the likes of Boris and Gove the morning after the vote when they realised that the thing they never thought could actually happen, had happened.

Could the ERG types actually be killing Brexit for their own ends, so they can go back to their comfort zone and resume the Statler and Waldorf acts?

Small hours musings; probably bollocks as old Coxy would say

[idontknow]

The contempt in which she holds Parliament is astonishing.

That said, the MPs only have themselves to blame. They all voted for no deal to be the default outcome when they triggered Article 50 and almost none of them have the courage to vote to revoke it.

Her and her family have been ripping off the country for years. That's what they do. And you're astonished! Have you really not got this yet? Fucking amazing. I bet you're surprised the BBC tell you little fibs sometimes.  It's like a creche in here sometimes.

[idontknow]

And I've looked at the timelines. Not all of you were watching the match, were you?

[oldfordie]

Am I the only one beginning to have some doubts as to whether the ERG mob actually WANT to Leave? They love sniping from the sidelines and blaming everything on the EU, and claiming things would be better if went back to the days of Empire etc etc.

But some of them aren't stupid; they know that if we do leave then they would have to actually make things work; that there'll be no hiding place for them when the shit hits the fan, as it surely will do if we leave.

Rather like Corbyn, maybe they are only really good for sitting on the sidelines and snarking and causing disruption, and that all that fun will be over once we leave.

I can't help but think back to the ashen faces of the likes of Boris and Gove the morning after the vote when they realised that the thing they never thought could actually happen, had happened.

Could the ERG types actually be killing Brexit for their own ends, so they can go back to their comfort zone and resume the Statler and Waldorf acts?

Small hours musings; probably bollocks as old Coxy would say

No,not bollocks,I think we've all tried to make sense of whats been happening. Johnsons really not a leave nutter but he's played his cards to win the Tory leadership and there no turning back, he has plenty of hiding places as he earns more outside parliament writing and giving speeches, he will get bye no problem after Brexit and the same applies to other ERG nutters, paid thousands a month to advice companies on buisness, there MP salary is peanuts compared to what they earn outside Parliament.
Then theres JRM. made £7 mill from his company advising clients to invest outside the UK. still amazed this is not seen as a conflict of interests.
This doesnt explain just how the majority of leave MPs feel though as there are a few Labour MPs just as passionate for a hard Brexit as the ERG.
The sad truth is they have no answers to the chaos that Brexit will bring, there ideology is principle, nobody should tell us what to do, they console themselves with the belief that all these problems will be solved some way, they are not much different from most leave voters. they believe we will be able to sort all these problems some way as we have too.
Ignorance is bliss.

[Dr. Beaker]

Am I the only one beginning to have some doubts as to whether the ERG mob actually WANT to Leave? They love sniping from the sidelines and blaming everything on the EU, and claiming things would be better if went back to the days of Empire etc etc.

But some of them aren't stupid; they know that if we do leave then they would have to actually make things work; that there'll be no hiding place for them when the shit hits the fan, as it surely will do if we leave.

Rather like Corbyn, maybe they are only really good for sitting on the sidelines and snarking and causing disruption, and that all that fun will be over once we leave.

I can't help but think back to the ashen faces of the likes of Boris and Gove the morning after the vote when they realised that the thing they never thought could actually happen, had happened.

Could the ERG types actually be killing Brexit for their own ends, so they can go back to their comfort zone and resume the Statler and Waldorf acts?

Small hours musings; probably bollocks as old Coxy would say

I was watching a studio discussion with a handful of MP's on Tuesday. Suella Braverman seemed to visibly run out of steam halfway through after they had discussed a hard 'no deal' Brexit. She spent the second half of the show in silence open mouthed just staring at the floor with a strange horror struck expression on her face. I actually felt like a sea-change had occurred and they finally realised that they had been rumbled - similar to the morning after the referendum. I may be wrong but it seems to me that a few of the loons are looking a bit deflated.

[lamad]

I can see school children in this country moaning during history lessons in 100yrs time.
offs not Brexit again sir, how f..long did this shit go on for on for.
Keep quiet Jones, everyone open their books to page 432 Chapter 25, Brexit means Brexit.

Oh thank you, I needed that laugh after the utter shambles of the last two days (politically). Tonight at least the footy delivered a great result in a non embarassing way, which is not something the mother of parliaments can claim for itself these days. According to what was voiced all through the evening on German news, by members of EU institutions, journalists and other assorted bystanders in Brussels, the EU appears to be prrretty fed up with it all...

[killer-heels]

Fate took a fantastic turn yesterday when it was Peter Bone who had to read out the massive loss for the stupid Malthouse compromise in parliament. He looked thorougly depressed. Hopefully that loss means the likes of Nicky Morgan fuck off.

[Zeb]

Just listening to McDonnell on Radio 4. Pretty clear that the only way a referendum happens is if 'remainers' refuse to vote for anything which doesn't have it as an option - so they're going to have to tell Jez to fuck off with his plans to renegotiate the political declaration unless it's ratified by a referendum. Sure Corbynistas will be understanding of that position... Is the route to a 'remain' and 'soft' Brexit majority to do something, in theory at least, so swings and roundabouts.

There's an amendment today from MPs against any thought of a second referendum which is worth watching. 114 signed up already, so that may be a testy one as it's 'soft' Brexiters of various shades plus headbangers.Lee Rowley MP has posted the current signatories.

[red1977]

Some of the Irony from brexiters is unreal.

"We must leave now with no deal, whatever the consequences. Back the country".

So acknowledging leaving with no deal may come with great consequence to the country, and advocating for it is backing the country.

How has it come to people hating the European Union so much?

[redbyrdz]

Some of the Irony from brexiters is unreal.

"We must leave now with no deal, whatever the consequences. Back the country".

So acknowledging leaving with no deal may come with great consequence to the country, and advocating for it is backing the country.

How has it come to people hating the European Union so much?

They just get kick out of fucking everyone else over. They don't give a shit about the country. They will be safe from any consequences in their tax havens.

[Alan_X]

I don`t know why people still watch the BBC for news, its pure establishment propaganda; pro-union, pro-tory, pro-brexit. They`re doing what they are told.

A lot of scottish independence supporters have stopped paying their TV licence.

Get a grip lad.

[Libertine]

Sums them up....

[killer-heels]

I dont get people who say they feel sorry for Theresa May. She is the Prime Minister, its a hard job. If anything, there should be more celebration of seeing someone get so hard headed get humiliated in front of everyone. Her stupid election fiasco, her coughing fit, losing all control, losing her voice.

I hope there is more to come.

[Zeb]

I know it's shite deep-left, but Evolve Politics are saying that one of the Tory Whips just ignored his own three-line whip.

If that's true, what the actual fuck is going on here?

This story wasn't just from the madhouse alt-left, but I believe the truth of this was that he was paired so Labour's Andrew Gwynne could get away to see his really poorly grandson.

[FlashingBlade]

Cant make head or tail of what will happen if they vote not to extend deadline..they have voted against the Deal. Against No Deal so if vote No Extension...what then? ...invoke the Homer Simpson principle of hiding under some coats and hope it works itself out?

[killer-heels]

Cant make head or tail of what will happen if they vote not to extend deadline..they have voted against the Deal. Against No Deal so if vote No Extension...what then? ...invoke the Homer Simpson principle of hiding under some coats and hope it works itself out?

They will vote for an extension. That will definitely win.

Its from that point that it gets really interesting as all eyes will be on the EU.

[killer-heels]

I love the view coming back from Brexit supporters that they will not vote in the future. Great stuff. Thats good to hear that bigots and idiots alike will fuck off from democracy.

The problem Brexiteers have is that they dont have the constituents to cause riots. If we were France or Italy then there would be trouble. The Brits? No chance.

[Zeb]

EU is where it's always been on an extension. We need to provide a reason to have one.

Tusk this morning is Tusking.

During my consultations ahead of #EUCO, I will appeal to the EU27 to be open to a long extension if the UK finds it necessary to rethink its #Brexit strategy and build consensus around it.

Or, more bluntly, "have a referendum you fools".

If anyone wants to dive deep into the weeds of the consequences of a long extension on holding European elections, Eleanor Sharpston is one of Britain's top experts on EU law and is setting out her view that there is precedent, should the political will be there, to skip us needing to hold an actual election until Brexit is resolved.

[killer-heels]

EU is where it's always been on an extension. We need to provide a reason to have one.

Tusk this morning is Tusking.

Or, more bluntly, "have a referendum you fools".

If anyone wants to dive deep into the weeds of the consequences of a long extension on holding European elections, Eleanor Sharpston is one of Britain's top experts on EU law and is setting out her view that there is precedent, should the political will be there, to skip an actual election until Brexit is resolved.

Could the EU insist that any extension is based on parliament being given free votes on a range of options (i.e. Norway style, Common Market 10.2 etc.) on the priviso that whatever wins comes back to the EU to negotiate?

That would drive May round the bend because she would lose control but it would have a majority before it even got to the EU. Then they extend whilst they tune up the details?

[killer-heels]

Haven't some in the EU said they would need to hear a very good reason from the UK in order to grant an extension?. I agree that the vote for an extension should pass, but what reason can we expect the UK to give other than we need more time because we don't know what we want yet?. I guess with no deal being the default, they should grant us an extension as long as we participate in the EU elections, so long extension.

It doesnt matter why we want an extension. The EU will propose an extension with a massive caveat and that will allow either the meaningful vote to go through or give them an outcome they want.

The EU have abandoned hope of us staying so I doubt they will put in a second vote caveat. However if I were them I would insist that parliament are given free votes on a range of off the shelf or strongly workable options and the winning ones and whatever is chosen is brought back to ratify.

At that point May could put back a meaningful vote to get the ERG onside and avoid a soft Brexit or we go through parliaments way and get a off the shelf option. Either way, the siruation is sorted.

[Zeb]

Could the EU insist that any extension is based on parliament being given free votes on a range of options (i.e. Norway style, Common Market 10.2 etc.) on the priviso that whatever wins comes back to the EU to negotiate?

That would drive May round the bend because she would lose control but it would have a majority before it even got to the EU. Then they extend whilst they tune up the details?

They won't want to be seen to interfere in the decision at a national level. What they're doing instead is forcing the outcome at a remove by demanding a specific reason which has to be reached by whatever process we want to come up with.

On a purely pragmatic level, forcing through any form of Brexit which the government isn't behind is just a recipe for yet more problems down the line. Whether in the legislation which needs to be done to make it happen, or even in negotiating towards a political declaration which the government doesn't want.

[Wabaloolah]

So she's bringing it back for a third time!  Will the speaker allow it?

The woman is out of control!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47564793

[thejbs]

So she's bringing it back for a third time!  Will the speaker allow it?

The woman is out of control!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47564793

Wonderful. Brexiteers rubbish the idea of a 'people's vote' saying you can't keep asking the same question until you get the answer you want. Then the government pulls this shit

[Kekule]

So she's bringing it back for a third time!  Will the speaker allow it?

The woman is out of control!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47564793

Fuckinell.  It's like those old pop up ads, where you had to click on the cross about 40 times before the fucking thing disappeared only for it to come back again 30 seconds later.

Someone forgot to disable pop ups in the Maybot's programming.

[redbyrdz]

Wonderful. Brexiteers rubbish the idea of a 'people's vote' saying you can't keep asking the same question until you get the answer you want. Then the government pulls this shit

Should be the default answer if anybody ever questions the idea of another referendum again.

[24/7]

Wonderful. Brexiteers rubbish the idea of a 'people's vote' saying you can't keep asking the same question until you get the answer you want. Then the government pulls this shit

That 'argument' always makes me laugh - we have a 'people's vote' every few years on the structure of the entire fucking political process in this country - and sometimes circumstances change so drastically that an earlier 'vote' is needed, in order to clarify whatever circumstances have caused the need to re-evaluate the 'people's' opinion.

It's not the same as asking the same fucking question until we get the answer we want - those dumb fucks who still want to leave can still vote leave - at least now they're in possession of much, much greater perspective on the potential outcome than they were when blatantly lied to by opportunists and charlatans........it's not like their democratic right to still be dumb fucks is being taken away from them.

What a bunch of beauts.

Seems to me that 2nd ref is the only way to sort this sorry mess out now.

[Mutton Geoff]

So she's bringing it back for a third time!  Will the speaker allow it?

The woman is out of control!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47564793

She is like a punch drunk boxer going for one last fight.

[losCHUNK]

That 'argument' always makes me laugh - we have a 'people's vote' every few years on the structure of the entire fucking political process in this country - and sometimes circumstances change so drastically that an earlier 'vote' is needed, in order to clarify whatever circumstances have caused the need to re-evaluate the 'people's' opinion.

It's not the same as asking the same fucking question until we get the answer we want - those dumb fucks who still want to leave can still vote leave - at least now they're in possession of much, much greater perspective on the potential outcome than they were when blatantly lied to by opportunists and charlatans........it's not like their democratic right to still be dumb fucks is being taken away from them.

What a bunch of beauts.

Seems to me that 2nd ref is the only way to sort this sorry mess out now.

Ive been thinking a 2nd ref is the only way since she lost her 1st vote but the mention of that seems to be getting less traction than anything else.

These 3 phrases I never want to hear again - 'we decided to leave now get on with it' (this one is commonly used by Joe Public, apparently), 'our legal position is still to leave on March 29th' or 'to avoid no deal you must 1st have a deal and my deal is the only deal'.  Those statements are deliberately obtuse yet are somehow considered perfectly acceptable.  It goes along the same lines of thinking that a 2nd referendum would be damaging for democracy (as opposed to a no deal Brexit!?), use some sense, ffs.  What if the result of No Deal was nuclear war?, 'we voted leave now just get on with it'?.

We're a joke.

[So… Howard Philips]

I love the view coming back from Brexit supporters that they will not vote in the future. Great stuff. Thats good to hear that bigots and idiots alike will fuck off from democracy.

The problem Brexiteers have is that they dont have the constituents to cause riots. If we were France or Italy then there would be trouble. The Brits? No chance.

Mrs P is listening to BBC as I sort out my banking. It's worth three years of this shite just to hear the "man in the street" Brexiteer go full on Bitter Fewm. Serves the fuckers right.

And in the real world the rest of us are in Limbo, or Purgatory and maybe even Hell.

[Wabaloolah]

Wonderful. Brexiteers rubbish the idea of a 'people's vote' saying you can't keep asking the same question until you get the answer you want. Then the government pulls this shit

that's a very good point actually

[Zeb]

There's an amendment today from MPs against any thought of a second referendum which is worth watching. 114 signed up already, so that may be a testy one as it's 'soft' Brexiters of various shades plus headbangers.Lee Rowley MP has posted the current signatories.

Not selected by Bercow, and Mark "I wasn't taught to lose in the army" Francois and other headbangers are kicking off about it in the chamber.

Benn/Letwin/Cooper/Grieve proposal for Parliament to take control of process from next Wednesday, TIG/Lib Dem/Nats proposal to direct the PM to extend Article 50 to hold a second referendum, Chris Bryant's to stop another meaningful vote on the PM's deal, and Corbyn's to direct PM to seek an extension so Parliament can debate options, are on there tonight.

[TheShanklyGates]

Bercow calls four amendments, including one calling for a second referendum

John Bercow, the speaker, says he is calling four amendments, plus an amendment to an amendment.

They are:

1) Sarah Wollaston’s - calling for an extension to article 50 to allow for time for a referendum on Brexit.

2) Hilary Benn’s - saying next Wednesday should be set aside for a debate that would start the process of allowing MPs to hold indicative votes on Brexit alternatives. There is also an amendment to this amendment, from Labour’s Lucy Powell, changing the timing.

3) Labour’s - saying article 50 should be extended to allow time for MPs to find a majority for a different approach to Brexit.

4) Chris Bryant’s - saying Theresa May should not be allowed to put her deal to the Commons again.

1 is going to kill any chance of a second referendum when it gets voted down.

[oldfordie]

Not selected by Bercow, and Mark "I wasn't taught to lose in the army" Francois and other headbangers are kicking off about it in the chamber.

Benn/Letwin/Cooper/Grieve proposal for Parliament to take control of process from next Wednesday, TIG/Lib Dem/Nats proposal to direct the PM to extend Article 50 to hold a second referendum, Chris Bryant's to stop another meaningful vote on the PM's deal, and Corbyn's to direct PM to seek an extension so Parliament can debate options, are on there tonight.

Bercow is a brilliant brave speaker. the ERG are throwing insults and smears at him and he's batting them away with ease. 
Imagine Rees-Mogg as speaker right now, we would be f...

[Dr. Beaker]

that's a very good point actually

The exact same point was made in the Chamber yesterday by Benn (to Pob, if memory serves).