Topic: Fabinho

[DangerScouse]

Judging by his bird's anti-trans posts on Instagram I don't think he's anything close to an LGBTQ ally anyway.

She's an absolute geebag.

[Titi Camara]

What's your stance on the fact that our club has chosen to engage in business dealings with said brutal regime?

The club didn't choose to engage. The players and the buying clubs brought these deals to us. Obviously we could have rejected these approaches first hand on moral grounds but I'm just clarifying the position. LFC did not seek these deals.

I'm just curious, what exactly is your stance on that mate? Do you have a stance on it? If not, why not? If you do have one, would you care to share what it is exactly? And how you intend to display your disapproval towards our current custodians for taking Saudi blood money and putting it in LFC coffers? Will you be refusing to show support for the players we buy with that blood money? Or will you be conveniently shutting your mouth and turning a blind eye to it all?

My stance is, I would prefer them to, unequivocally, do no business with any club associated with that brutal regime, not even entertain it.

If a player wishes to leave the club, then makes it clear they will not join any other club bar the one they have chosen (for financial reasons) and no longer want to play for LFC, they hold pretty much all the cards. Ironically given the context of this discussion, players are not slaves and can not be forced to sign for another club against their wishes. This appears to be very much what happened (given it was reported player terms were agreed before the transfers), so the club had very little choice but to deal with these clubs.

The only other option would be to retain said players for the duration of their respective contracts. This would effectively hamstring our playing performance for that period (players not playing to standard, refusing to play, opportunity costs of squad numbers etc) and why the fuck should we hamstring our team because some obscenely rich, barbaric regime came calling?

Now that they have the money, my preference would be for the club to make a statement about our collective ideology by donating all of the proceeds to local charities and community projects. I have zero expectation of that happening though, nor has the club given any indication that this is in their thinking.

Assigning perceived accountability or responsibility to incoming players is ridiculous. Putting the idea aside that these incoming monies will be ringfenced for absolute and direct use on new players, is nonsense, it could already be being used to buy teabags for all we know and I'm not going to start trying to take a moral stance against people drinking tea.

The only reason I ask mate, is I assume that if you're going to question 2 former players for supposedly "supporting" this evil and brutal regime, then surely you must, by extension, hold LFC to the same moral standards? Because if you don't mate, and if you've no intention of protesting our own participation in all this, then we're all just collectively talking out of our arses, aren't we?

I can hold an opinion without the need for direct action. I can also hold a different opinion of players actively seeking out a move KSA, very obviously for money, and the club for receiving a transfer fee for a transfer they did not instigate.

Separately to the questions you asked, I think the footballing authorities are not currently fit for purpose and there should have been rules in place to stop all of this before it even got started.

[Titi Camara]

Fabinho won't be arsed much I think. He didn't promote himself as an advocate for the LGBTQ community. He just couldn't be arsed putting a shift in anymore.

I do agree there is a world of difference between the exits of the two players but I would also add that Fabinho is very openly Christian.

It is illegal to openly practice any other faith there, so he has to hide part of who he is and what he believes. That is selling your principles too.

[Billy The Kid]

Are you playing bellend bingo? Because if you are, you're winning.

It's easy to call me a bellend though, isn't it? Much easier to do that than have to admit there's a seriously big blood money soaked elephant in the room here, and neither ourselves or the club can get out of it without us all having to (a) selectively compromise our moral standards, and (b) admit that we've all been engaging in a little bit of selective hypocritical shite talk. Just calling someone a bellend is much easier, isn't it? 

[classycarra]

Seeing as yourself and many others have taken it upon yourselves to be the gate keepers of morality, I assume you're currently working on a decree instructing all fans to boycott the club for their shameful willingness to accept Saudi blood money? I mean, if we're running with the idea that anyone who has anything to do with these fuckers are "lacking awareness" and are "without morals", then why not run all the way with it? And actually apply it to everyone? Or is that a can of worms that (behind all the virtue signalling) you ultimately can't be arsed opening?
 

The puritans are in the building!

[Son of Spion]

That would include Liverpool Football Club then, yeah? Seems to me that admitting that fact requires an admission of hypocrisy that's too hard for some of our fans to handle? Having read through the thread, it seems most want to lay all the "taking of blood money" and "enabling sportwashing" at the feet of Fab and Hendo, whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that the club have just dipped OUR NOSES in the same trough

As Michael Corleone said in Godfather 2: "We're all part of the same hypocrisy senator"

The thing is, the game itself is completely fucked. It's corrupt to the core. Sadly, it reflects the world perfectly.

Yes, the club taking Saudi money is also part of the problem. Just having dealings with them helps legitimise them and their sportswashing project. We can't really get away from this fact. Well, I think it's a fact, anyway. Some may disagree.

It's a dilemma for the fans. The game has been stolen from us all and turned into a grotesque, circus freak show. Just sticking with the game and paying into it via tickets, merchandise, kit, TV subscriptions etc means we are enabling it further. The only 100% ethical decision would be to bin the entire circus off altogether and focus on something more productive. But most of us were brought up on the game. It's part of our very being, so not easy to cast aside and leave behind. Those running (and ruining) the game have placed its followers in an impossible position.

We are following a sport that actively encourages greed and allows blatant cheats to prosper. A sport that welcomes money with little regard for where it comes from. The sport itself is light years away from its traditional grassroots followers. It's not the fans fault, though. The game was sold from under us. It's run by multi billionaires and played by multi millionaires. The fans are just left to pick over the wreckage and decide to either stick with the clubs they were brought up on or bin the entire thing off altogether.

Sadly, clubs are big business, and that's a very dirty world. We all get tainted to some degree by association. It's unavoidable unfortunately.

I don't think this invalidates criticism of Henderson in particular, though. The reasons there have been covered in-depth on the site recently. I honestly would not have done what he's done. I couldn't live with myself if I did. That's just me and my personal lines in the sand, of course. I clearly value different things in life.

I wish LFC would refuse to do business with sportswashers. I wish clubs would refuse to play matches against sportswashers too. I wish fans would boycott games against Saudi and Abu Dhabi in the PL and PSG in European competition. It won't happen though. As I said, I believe the game has gone. The sport we knew is now dead. Just by being part of it and paying into it in whatever way we invest in it means we are unwitting enablers.

The game has screwed its fans over. There is no escaping this. It makes hypocrites of us all in some respect or other. All we can do is turn a blind eye to the mess or work out where to draw our own lines in the sand. Living 100% ethically in a 95% fucked up world is very, very hard.

[Billy The Kid]

The club didn't choose to engage. The players and the buying clubs brought these deals to us. Obviously we could have rejected these approaches first hand on moral grounds but I'm just clarifying the position. LFC did not seek these deals.My stance is, I would prefer them to, unequivocally, do no business with any club associated with that brutal regime, not even entertain it.

True, we may not have sought out those deals mate, but it's one hell of a logical summersault, and quite a desperate attempt to entrench your position by using "we didn't engage" as your opening defence. Yes we did engage mate! Yes we absolutely did! We engaged the moment we entertained their offer and became willing participants in their sportswashing the moment we accepted their blood money into our coffers. To suggest otherwise, or to obfuscate by saying "well running down their contracts would have hampered us" is just a painfully hypocritical shifting of the goal posts mate. I'm sorry, but it is

Now that they have the money, my preference would be for the club to make a statement about our collective ideology by donating all of the proceeds to local charities and community projects. I have zero expectation of that happening though, nor has the club given any indication that this is in their thinking.

 

We all know that's highly unlikely though, don't we? As you say, Liverpool FC will more than likely be taking all that money and using it elsewhere on the balance sheet. And we all know they will,. And that's the part that I'm calling out mate. I've no problem with people opposing Saudi laws or practices. Fuck it, I can even understand people voicing their disapproval at Hendo and Fabinho. The bit I find a bit fresh, is those who loudly bang their anti-Saudi drums when there's a forum squabble to be had about morality, but will selectively skirt around the cold truths when the spotlight is pointed at the club. That's my gripe mate. Not Saudi or their bullshit archaic laws. I'm talking about us, and our hypocrisy

You need to be extremely careful with that word, I genuinely suggest you alter you post. I am persecuting no one and find the idea unbelievably offensive. I can hold an opinion without the need for direct action. I can also hold a different opinion of players actively seeking out a move KSA, very obviously for money, and the club for receiving a transfer fee for a transfer they did not instigate.

Separately to the questions you asked, I think the footballing authorities are not currently fit for purpose and there should have been rules in place to stop all of this before it even got started.

Fair enough Titi, if you found the use of 1 particular word to be "unbelievably offensive" then I'm happy to walk it back. I've now amended the post to read " if you're going to question 2 former players for supposedly "supporting" this evil and brutal regime, then surely you must, by extension, hold LFC to the same moral standards?". A point and a question which I still stand over, and a question which I feel you artfully dodged out of with some fairly vanilla answers. I'm not suggesting you can't have morals mate, I'm simply saying that if you're going to be so vociferous then at least be consistent. Especially if you're going to go trotting out stuff like this

Another player who sold their principles for MORE money to support the sportwashing efforts of a brutal regime.

Alas, perhaps that's enough discussion on other peoples principles for one day. Maybe we should all take a break to reflect on our own. God speed sir

[Eeyore]

Seeing as yourself and many others have taken it upon yourselves to be the gate keepers of morality, I assume you're currently working on a decree instructing all fans to boycott the club for their shameful willingness to accept Saudi blood money? I mean, if we're running with the idea that anyone who has anything to do with these fuckers are "lacking awareness" and are "without morals", then why not run all the way with it? And actually apply it to everyone? Or is that a can of worms that (behind all the virtue signalling) you ultimately can't be arsed opening?
 

I have already posted that the Club shouldn't be accepting Saudi blood money. I also suggested that since the Premier League is owned by its member clubs the none sport-washers should come together and agree that no Premier League clubs should accept money from the Saudi state for sportswashing purposes.

However, I would also say there is a clear distinction between doing business with a morally bankrupt state and actively going to work for that state and being used as PR for the sportswashing process.

Just to be clear here are you suggesting that it is okay for posters to wish Fabinho well in his sportswashing duties?

[Billy The Kid]

It's a dilemma for the fans.

Mate, as you know, I love your posts, and generally find myself agreeing with most of what you say, including what you just said in the above post.

Yes you're right, it is a dilemma for the fans. The same fans who seemingly have no problem scrambling to the moral high ground to proclaim "well they didn't have to take that blood money money, they could have just said no". Well now here are. We, just like the players, have a decision of our own to make. We can either (a) actually practice what we preach and hold the club to equal account, or we can (b) conveniently forget our preachings when push comes to shove. The latter being the stance that many seem to be taking. That's all I'm trying to say. No more no less

[Son of Spion]

I certainly see what you're getting at, Billy. It's a very uncomfortable situation. Rocks and hard places come to mind.

I'd say an awful lot of us are uncomfortable with the waters the club has to (or is happy to?) swim in. Are we (the club and those who continue to invest in the the game) part of the problem? Sadly, yes, to a degree we all are. Modern life makes hypocrites of us all, one way or another. We have to be moral contortionists just to negotiate a path through the swamp that we can personally find some peace with.

But anyway, I absolutely get where you are coming from. It's a very prickly cactus to get a grip on too.

The now ex players took the money. Our club took it too. I wish neither had done so. None of it looks or feels good to me.

[damomad]

The saddest part is it's already becoming normalised, I fear we haven't seen the end of it. I'd be shocked if there aren't more posts about some of our key players leaving this time next season. Another lesson never to get attached to any player.

As for pointing some of the blame at our own club, is there any club in Europe unwilling to do business with the Saudi's out of principle? Haven't heard anything of the sort. Celtic and Liverpool, 2 clubs that I would consider to have decent "values" at their core have taken the money. The whole game is completely fucked.

[Titi Camara]

True, we may not have sought out those deals mate, but it's one hell of a logical summersault, and quite a desperate attempt to entrench your position by using "we didn't engage" as your opening defence. Yes we did engage mate!

I don't know if you are purposely being obtuse here or not. I said we didn't choose to engage. Not that we didn't engage. The club did not instigate these transfers.

This does not abdicate LFC from all responsibility, yes they could have taken an absolute moral stance on the issue, but they didn't. The club are obviously not squeaky clean here, as SoS said above, "The thing is, the game itself is completely fucked. It's corrupt to the core. Sadly, it reflects the world perfectly.", the game has been corrupted by money. And not any money, but that from oligarchs and regimes with brutal and murky pasts and presents.

But it's a sliding scale in my eyes, any association, should be considered on it's merits (or lack there of) rather than blanket, universal condemnation of the same level. For example, a builder unable to find employment anywhere else, with no savings in the bank, a family to support, going to KSA to build houses is simply not the same as a millionaire footballer going their for greed, to be part of their sportswashing campaign.

Henderson hypocrisy and willingness to sell out his support for the LBGQT+ community, all for greed, where he will be used as a tool in the sportswashing campaign of a barbaric regime is the most egregious of anyone associated with the club and deserves the most condemnation.

Fabinho, although not rowing back on any previous public position, will have to hide his faith in a country where being openly Christian is illegal. He has openly sold his principles for greed, where he will, again, be used as a tool in the sportswashing campaign of a barbaric regime. Whilst not as hypocritical as JH, his actions rightly deserve condemnation.

Fowler, Gerrard & Bobby - again further down the scale for me, although morally no different from a sportswashing pov, they were all free agents to do so and did not push for contracts, already on huge wages, to be broken, purely in pursuit for greater riches.

Mane's charitable contributions and work in his home country and province make this far more ambiguous. He might genuinely use all of the proceeds from his time there for the greater good. Several wrongs don't make a right however and I still condemn his decision to go there, he will be used as a tool in the sportswashing campaign of a barbaric regime, regardless of whether or not his personal motivations are greed.

LFC - whilst taking the transfer fees for JH and Fabinho make them complicit, they did not pursue or initiate these transfers, their lack of alternative that wouldn't simultaneously damage the club, mean that even though they deserve condemnation, that their actions are not anywhere near as egregious as the players leaving us, the condemnation should not be anywhere near as vociferous.

[Son of Spion]

^
Reply to damomad.


This is it. The entire game is screwed. No one is coming out of it smelling of roses.

It's so far advanced now that clubs either adapt to it or die. 

Fans who are old enough to remember the game as a proper sport are left to pick over the wreckage and either walk away or stew in their discontent. It's a horrible mess, but one tracking the horrible mess the world is in perfectly.

[Only Me]

Another greedy forgettable gobshite with no morals or shame.

The list of former LFC sportswashing pricks grows ever longer.

Wish them all nothing but ill luck, ill health and bad karma.

[Dim Glas]

You don't know the "many posters", and you certainly don't know what their principles are.

You only know your own narcissistic, self-aggrandizing virtue signaling.  Which is cheap and easy, isn't it?

I will wish Fab and Rebeca well every day of the week. He was one of the main reasons for the club's success, and the joy that brought to fans.

I’m sure they are arsed if you do or don't

Fabinho was a fantastic player for this club, a huge part of the success and joy of the past few years.

He’s a greedy sod who’s put his morals (whichever ones  he and his Bolsonaro loving wife had) in check though, same as Henderson and Gerrard, oh and Firmino and now it seems Sadio Mane if we’re going back a bit!

It isn’t hard to seperate the two, believing the latter, doesn’t change the former.

[In the Name of Klopp]

I do agree there is a world of difference between the exits of the two players but I would also add that Fabinho is very openly Christian.

It is illegal to openly practice any other faith there, so he has to hide part of who he is and what he believes. That is selling your principles too.

That is just not true. We used to live i Saudi Arabia and we didn't had to "hide" that we were Christians. You can practice it at your home and other private places.

[stewy17]

I don't know if you are purposely being obtuse here or not. I said we didn't choose to engage. Not that we didn't engage. The club did not instigate these transfers.

This does not abdicate LFC from all responsibility, yes they could have taken an absolute moral stance on the issue, but they didn't. The club are obviously not squeaky clean here, as SoS said above, "The thing is, the game itself is completely fucked. It's corrupt to the core. Sadly, it reflects the world perfectly.", the game has been corrupted by money. And not any money, but that from oligarchs and regimes with brutal and murky pasts and presents.

But it's a sliding scale in my eyes, any association, should be considered on it's merits (or lack there of) rather than blanket, universal condemnation of the same level. For example, a builder unable to find employment anywhere else, with no savings in the bank, a family to support, going to KSA to build houses is simply not the same as a millionaire footballer going their for greed, to be part of their sportswashing campaign.

Henderson hypocrisy and willingness to sell out his support for the LBGQT+ community, all for greed, where he will be used as a tool in the sportswashing campaign of a barbaric regime is the most egregious of anyone associated with the club and deserves the most condemnation.

Fabinho, although not rowing back on any previous public position, will have to hide his faith in a country where being openly Christian is illegal. He has openly sold his principles for greed, where he will, again, be used as a tool in the sportswashing campaign of a barbaric regime. Whilst not as hypocritical as JH, his actions rightly deserve condemnation.

Fowler, Gerrard & Bobby - again further down the scale for me, although morally no different from a sportswashing pov, they were all free agents to do so and did not push for contracts, already on huge wages, to be broken, purely in pursuit for greater riches.

Mane's charitable contributions and work in his home country and province make this far more ambiguous. He might genuinely use all of the proceeds from his time there for the greater good. Several wrongs don't make a right however and I still condemn his decision to go there, he will be used as a tool in the sportswashing campaign of a barbaric regime, regardless of whether or not his personal motivations are greed.

LFC - whilst taking the transfer fees for JH and Fabinho make them complicit, they did not pursue or initiate these transfers, their lack of alternative that wouldn't simultaneously damage the club, mean that even though they deserve condemnation, that their actions are not anywhere near as egregious as the players leaving us, the condemnation should not be anywhere near as vociferous.

Of course, they're being deliberately obtuse. It's nonsense to try and close down debate or someone's opinion on the grounds of perceived hypocrisy.

"You can't criticise X if you don't criticise Y"
"You can't be against summary executions because you bought an iPhone"
"You can't criticise a despotic regime because the country you were born in was a despotic regime 2 centuries ago"
"If you criticise a 29-year-old Brazilian millionaire on an LFC forum for making a morally questionable decision then you must then boycott an institution with which you have had a relationship since birth".

It's not a genuine attempt to engage or debate it's just an attempt to shut down. It's laughable pseudo-intellectualism. I'm sure if the question was, do you also have a problem with the club doing business with SA then the answer would be yes. I'm sure if the question was do you also have a problem with the club's Standard Chartered sponsorship then the answer would be yes. Why not go into the FSG thread to ask that question? Why not go onto the sports washing thread to discuss the club's role in this?

[Titi Camara]

That is just not true. We used to live i Saudi Arabia and we didn't had to "hide" that we were Christians. You can practice it at your home and other private places.

It is illegal to openly practice another faith in KSA. You can practice your religion in your own home.

Hide (defn) - put or keep out of sight.

[hide5seek]

That would include Liverpool Football Club then, yeah? Seems to me that admitting that fact requires an admission of hypocrisy that's too hard for some of our fans to handle? Having read through the thread, it seems most want to lay all the "taking of blood money" and "enabling sportwashing" at the feet of Fab and Hendo, whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that the club have just dipped OUR NOSES in the same trough

As Michael Corleone said in Godfather 2: "We're all part of the same hypocrisy senator" 

So, your  answer is say nothing and accept the situation while insulting people with 'virtual signalling bollocks?

[classycarra]

That is just not true. We used to live i Saudi Arabia and we didn't had to "hide" that we were Christians. You can practice it at your home and other private places.

I see Titi has beaten me to it on the requirement for practice to be private, sort of proving the hiding point - but it's also worth pointing out that foreigners/aka expats tend to be insulated from the worst of the theocracy within saudi [this is part of why they hire people like henderson to play the 'useful idiots' role - to maintain unrepresentative illusions about what life's actually like living in KSA]

Many examples of how Saudi's (and practicing muslims from outisde of Saudi) who follow a sect of islam outside of the theocracy's Sunni majority face punishment purely on account of their religious. a shortcut to some summary examples is to check this part of wikipedia (and can read the sources it points)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Saudi_Arabia#Restrictions_on_religious_freedom

[oojason]

There have been instances in the past where even private prayer (in someone's home) has resulted in arrest, 'arbitrary body cavity searches in custody', imprisonment, beatings, and then later deportation - all for "illicit mingling". As well as lashings and also imprisonment for hosting private prayer for Shi'a muslims & prayers in private homes:-

www.hrw.org/news/2012/01/30/saudi-arabia-christians-arrested-private-prayer (2012)

https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/09/26/they-are-not-our-brothers/hate-speech-saudi-officials (2014 & 2015; 'hosting private Shia group in private home' & 'sitting with a Shi'a')

https://sa.usembassy.gov/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom-for-saudi-arabia (2022)

[Billy The Kid]

So, your  answer is say nothing and accept the situation while insulting people with 'virtual signalling bollocks?

No, that's not my answer mate. I never made any inferences along those lines. You've obviously completely misread my posts and the sentiment contained within them. Alas, I've just remembered why I don't ordinarily engage in discussions on the main board, so on that note, I'll bid you adieu and leave you all to it.

Just to be clear here are you suggesting that it is okay for posters to wish Fabinho well in his sportswashing duties?

Given you've clearly decided that Fabinho is now an accomplice, and have begun framing your questions to entrench that idea, I don't see much scope for further discussion here Al. For that reason, I'm going to leave you to your opinions and vacate the thread. Toodles.

[Yorkykopite]

I strongly suspect that Firmino and Fabinho, as known Christians, will be given special treatment. My guess is that they will be advised to be discreet about their beliefs, not to evangelise and not to be demonstrative while on the pitch. Obviously there aren’t any churches they can attend but the regime will not be punishing them for praying in their own homes or treating them as if they were ordinary Saudi subjects. Equality before the law obviously doesn’t exist any way under that feudal regime.

I doubt either of them will be that bothered about such restrictions. They seemed to get a thrill from kneeling down together on the pitch, pointing to the sky and praying while 50,000 people watched on. That won’t be allowed to happen, which is a bit of a pity for them. But Firmino’s Christianity, from what we could gather from that puff-piece documentary, was not social but highly tailored to thanking God for making him skilful with a football and very wealthy. It wasn’t the Christianity of social and political revolt or concern with the poor and marginalised. It was the Christianity of ‘Look at me, I’m blessed’. That ought to be fine in the Saudi despotism. It doesn’t present a threat to anyone.

[MH41]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that's all they are - opinions.
However what are actually facts is that both Fabinho and Henderson contributed massively to our success. For that I'm grateful and thank them massively.

I'm getting slightly tired of posters judging others opinions & morals.
Why should we expect players or posters to have the same opinions as ourselves?
What morals or opinions are right, and what are wrong?

One example. Ali, Firmino and Fabinho have been ridiculed by many on here over the past few years because of their Christianity. Why? Just because someone decides that their opinion is better than others, and should be forced on others?

By all means have an opinion (it is a forum after all) but remember that others do not have to agree with it.

FWIW, any player that pulls on the red jersey needs to be supported once they are on the pitch. They are here to do a job for us. Henderson and Fabinho did it fantastically.
I thank them for that.

[Titi Camara]

I'm getting slightly tired of posters judging others opinions & morals.

Who cares.

[Terry de Niro]

These threads just go around in circles.
I don't agree with any multi-millionaire footballer going to a despot horrible country to make many more millions, but not everyone is going to agree with that.

[Historical Fool]

The club didn't choose to engage. The players and the buying clubs brought these deals to us. Obviously we could have rejected these approaches first hand on moral grounds but I'm just clarifying the position. LFC did not seek these deals.My stance is, I would prefer them to, unequivocally, do no business with any club associated with that brutal regime, not even entertain it.

If a player wishes to leave the club, then makes it clear they will not join any other club bar the one they have chosen (for financial reasons) and no longer want to play for LFC, they hold pretty much all the cards. Ironically given the context of this discussion, players are not slaves and can not be forced to sign for another club against their wishes. This appears to be very much what happened (given it was reported player terms were agreed before the transfers), so the club had very little choice but to deal with these clubs.

The only other option would be to retain said players for the duration of their respective contracts. This would effectively hamstring our playing performance for that period (players not playing to standard, refusing to play, opportunity costs of squad numbers etc) and why the fuck should we hamstring our team because some obscenely rich, barbaric regime came calling?

Now that they have the money, my preference would be for the club to make a statement about our collective ideology by donating all of the proceeds to local charities and community projects. I have zero expectation of that happening though, nor has the club given any indication that this is in their thinking.

Assigning perceived accountability or responsibility to incoming players is ridiculous. Putting the idea aside that these incoming monies will be ringfenced for absolute and direct use on new players, is nonsense, it could already be being used to buy teabags for all we know and I'm not going to start trying to take a moral stance against people drinking tea.I can hold an opinion without the need for direct action. I can also hold a different opinion of players actively seeking out a move KSA, very obviously for money, and the club for receiving a transfer fee for a transfer they did not instigate.

Separately to the questions you asked, I think the footballing authorities are not currently fit for purpose and there should have been rules in place to stop all of this before it even got started.

I sincerely sincerely hope the club do the charity thing. Do it quietly, no fanfare, no adulation, as it should be, let the public find out through the 2023 accounts published 2024. One can dream.

[Fromola]

It's funny that this move in a way helps Fabinho's legacy with us, while Henderson's is badly damaged.

The fact we make a big profit on the player, after he gave us a great few years, rather than watch him meander about for the rest of his contract on huge money, or fuck off to Serie A on a loan deal which was what you'd have put your money on for much of last season.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Bye bye, no moral having money grabbing bastards the lot of them.

[Boston always unofficial]

Blah,another multi millionaire mercenary and his hanger on social media mrs.Off ya go,don't come back.

[Elliemental]

You don't know the "many posters", and you certainly don't know what their principles are.

You only know your own narcissistic, self-aggrandizing virtue signaling.  Which is cheap and easy, isn't it?

I will wish Fab and Rebeca well every day of the week. He was one of the main reasons for the club's success, and the joy that brought to fans.

Maybe find out what words and expressions mean before abusing them (and others).

[Elliemental]

It's funny that this move in a way helps Fabinho's legacy with us, while Henderson's is badly damaged.

For what it's worth, I don't think Hendo's footballing legacy is at all damaged by the Saudi move. But his legacy as an advocate for women's rights and LGBTQ+ inclusivity/equality, however, is torn to shreds.

[Yorkykopite]

For what it's worth, I don't think Hendo's footballing legacy is at all damaged by the Saudi move.

A Liverpool captain with two years on his contracts decides he’d rather play in the Saudi League!!

That’s pretty damaging. Unless of course we now think Liverpool FC is just a piece of shit.

[Son of Spion]

A Liverpool captain with two years on his contracts decides he’d rather play in the Saudi League!!

That’s pretty damaging. Unless of course we now think Liverpool FC is just a piece of shit.

Nothing will take away Henderson's past achievements on the field of play for me. He captained us to every trophy there was available to win.

Basically retiring to a footballing wasteland whilst abandoning previously stated principles blows a massive hole in his credibility though, both professionally and as a man. In professional football terms, Henderson, Fabinho etc have retired and are just being paid as sportswashing figureheads whilst having a kickabout in the sun. If it was Saudi money on offer from them, they'd have given up playing for a global giant like Liverpool in order to play for Marine in Crosby. That might not damage previous legacy, but it certainly damages current and ongoing credibility. The step down in terms of professional football really is that big.

[Yorkykopite]

Turns out Don Revie was the trailblazer.

[dutchkop]

For what it's worth, I don't think Hendo's footballing legacy is at all damaged by the Saudi move. But his legacy as an advocate for women's rights and LGBTQ+ inclusivity/equality, however, is torn to shreds.

nah for me, he may as well have signed for MUnited in my book.

the same for all the rest.
Fowler, Gerrard, Firmino, Fabinho, Mane, = I have no respect for their choices. Why go to the Saudi's now. While they are one of the worst countries in the world for human rights. Sportwashing of the highest order.. sold their souls and reputations for the petrodollars.

the same way I did not want us to be sold to  Qatar, Abudhabi or Saudis and the same way I feel about City, Newcastle , PSG..

[hide5seek]

No, that's not my answer mate. I never made any inferences along those lines. You've obviously completely misread my posts and the sentiment contained within them. Alas, I've just remembered why I don't ordinarily engage in discussions on the main board, so on that note, I'll bid you adieu and leave you all to it.

Given you've clearly decided that Fabinho is now an accomplice, and have begun framing your questions to entrench that idea, I don't see much scope for further discussion here Al. For that reason, I'm going to leave you to your opinions and vacate the thread. Toodles.

That seriously is a cowardly crock of shit. Again, what would you do,?

[Billy The Kid]

That seriously is a cowardly crock of shit. Again, what would you do,?

Cowardly crock of shit you say? With all due respect mate, I tried having a similar conversation in the Henderson 2 weeks ago, which resulted in me being baited into a passive aggressive shit fest by another poster, who thought it was A-ok to sling all kinds of derision at me, just because I dared to hold a slightly different view on Hendo's departure. I subsequently copped a ban, which as you can probably see by my profile, has landed me on the watched list for the foreseeable. Call me a cynic, but Judging by the tone of your post, I fear this conversation is likely to head in a similar direction. So if it's ok with you, I'd rather bow out as I don't really have the energy or inclination to keep going around on this.

I'll leave you on this note though: It is my personal view that if the sport of football is ever to be cleansed of the sportswashing that has clearly ruined it, then it will require us the fans (and indeed the fans of all clubs) to cease our idle squabbling, acknowledge that all clubs (including our own) are now complicit in enabling the problem, and form a well organised protest to hit them where it hurts. I.E boycott all games and grounds until the relevant authorities and associations take the corrective actions needed to restore parity and fairness within the game. Because from what I can see, cribbing about Jordan Henderson and Stan Fabinho fucking off to Saudi is essentially just pissing in the wind. Fan protests is a whole other debate though, and an ideal that I don't ever see materialising, so fuck it. Tally ho

[Titi Camara]

I don't want to discuss this any further but here's my reply

[alonsoisared]

Billy is spot on. He's argued in detail and without being insulting, unless he's been insulted first which he was in that Henderson thread last week.