Topic: Virgil Van Dijk (Cpt)

[RyanBabel19]

Maybe his minutes should be split with Gomez since Konate still looks like he's adjusting to our style of play.

Virgils getting bypassed way too much

[number 168]

He was really poor but then he’s missed basically a year and come back to play almost every game club and country 
I don’t really understand why we’re playing him every game at the moment - it’s not like we don’t have options

I wouldn't say he was really poor. By his high standards perhaps but he and Matip were exposed by having a midfield who seemed to melt away when they attacked.

[FlashGordon]

Took Laporte nearly a year to get back in to the City team so he's done remarkably well to even be starting games for us. Don't think he's been as bad as some people are making out as well, he just hasn't been best centre back in the world levels yet. He'll get there though.

[JackWard33]

I wouldn't say he was really poor. By his high standards perhaps but he and Matip were exposed by having a midfield who seemed to melt away when they attacked.

Sure but thats sort of the point - it’s very hard to tell what level your centre backs are at until they’re exposed to some degree. It’s easy to look boss vs Watford with 85% of the ball agaisnt championship level attackers  (I call this the Lovren trap)

[number 168]

Sure but thats sort of the point - it’s very hard to tell what level your centre backs are at until they’re exposed to some degree. It’s easy to look boss vs Watford with 85% of the ball agaisnt championship level attackers  (I call this the Lovren trap)

You are right but I was disagreeing that he was "really poor". He is not back to his best and that was shown a few times, but he wasn't helped by a midfield that allowed our centre backs to be exposed, especially to the talents of Felix and Griezmann.

[Ghost Town]

He was really poor but then he’s missed basically a year and come back to play almost every game club and country 
I don’t really understand why we’re playing him every game at the moment - it’s not like we don’t have options

I suppose the coaches thinks he just has to keep on playing to get back to his best, pushing past the rustiness and lack of sharpness. There'll be a few more hairy moments before it gets better, I imagine

[N0rnIr0nRed]

He still looks like he is crocked with that ACL.

[Samie]

He still looks like he is crocked with that ACL.

That doesn't even make sense. 

[Sheer Magnetism]

He's looked intermittently great and sloppy since he came back. I don't think it's controversial to say peak Virg would have cut out the second goal.

[scatman]

You are right but I was disagreeing that he was "really poor". He is not back to his best and that was shown a few times, but he wasn't helped by a midfield that allowed our centre backs to be exposed, especially to the talents of Felix and Griezmann.

he was sloppy, the midfield doesn't dictate what was an iffy as fuck offside line all game. Him Matip Robbo and Trent are the ones tasked with that and it failed multiple times. He also turned his back on the ball in for the second goal. He's working his way back and we seem to be happy to do that, boss knows best

[Armand9]

in a recent interview he said himself he knows he not where he was yet (which has been obvious tho still playing well for the most part) but match by match is the only way to get there

players know when they're not quite on it, they're usually their harshest critics, he'll get there and he's not a liability, just not at the level we know he can reach

[PaulF]

Any errors he made pre injury were probably ignored we are just looking for them now. I imagine he'd be first choice CB for pretty much any team in the world still, it's just he isn't quite at the level where he seems to be from another planet .

[jillcwhomever]

He still looks like he is crocked with that ACL.

What does that even mean?

[lukeb1981]

I think his knee is still giving him grief- he held it a few times during the game .

[lamonti]

He's looked intermittently great and sloppy since he came back. I don't think it's controversial to say peak Virg would have cut out the second goal.

Well, he still might not have, it was a brilliant first touch and a great finish by Griezmann who for some reason people think isn't a brilliant forward, but he turned himself completely the wrong way and got nowhere near as a result.

He's still on the comeback trail, that's for sure.

[Nick110581]

I think his knee is still giving him grief- he held it a few times during the game .

Not sure he would be playing if that’s the case.

[Dench57]

I think his knee is still giving him grief- he held it a few times during the game .

there's no way we'd be playing him every game if that was true. at least i'd fucking hope not

[Sharado]

I’m no sports scientist and of course he is important but are we playing him too much?

I think it's a case of we're playing him to bring him up to speed. For me that second goal showed he's not quite where he was. It was a great touch and finish from Greizmann, who's movement was seriously impressive last night prior to him going full Cobra Kai on Bobby. I don't think Virgil sliding in might have stopped the goal, but the fact he didn't suggested to me he still doesn't 100% trust himself or his movement/his knee/his body. It was the first real example where I felt like he was a step behind it all. Against Brentford he was weirdly uncompetitive with Toney too. I don't doubt he'l get there but I'd suspect it'll be the new year before we see the absolute best of him.

All of this is made much worse by the fact our midfield seems over run almost all the time at the minute with Fabinho plugging multiple gaps.

[Samie]

After the mancs we got Preston in the League Cup and Brighton at home in the League. I think Virg will be rested for that game and he won't even be considered for Preston.

[Andy82lfc]

State of some comments in here, it's like some people read twitter, shite sensationalistic journalism then come in here and regurgitate it all.

Of course he is still improving as he has said himself but he is still levels above the majority of defenders in the league, now the problem is everyone has their microscopes out desperately looking for any mistake he makes to then shout 'oh it must be his knee, his knee!! He's fucked see I told you!!' Really pathetic. Pretty sure he made mistakes and looked patchy in some games before his ACL, did anyone blame that when we got twatted by Aston Villa, didn't think so.

[Drinks Sangria]

Has anyone here had an ACL injury? Honest question. I have, I ruptured my ACL, MCL and tour my meniscus when playing a few years back. I was playing at an okay semi-pro level at the time, in the 8th tier of English football. The season I got injured, I had 8 goals and 14 assists in 18 games as a midfielder. I was being asked to trial for sides in the lower reaches of the National League, the 5th tier of English Football, and did have a trial scheduled at a well-known Non-League club in North Wales. 3 years post injury, I now play 7s and 5s to an okay Sunday-Leagueish standard.

I had private consultations, surgery on the NHS at a private hospital, private physio and club physio and I never got back to close to what I was before, even with two years of continual rehab. I honestly had to teach myself to run again, it sounds comical but when I was back running, it was like my brain and body were to completely distinct entities that had no idea how to communicate; I couldn't accelerate properly and even putting one leg in front of the other at pace felt like it took massive concentration and brainpower. I used to stack it on the run all the time, like my legs couldn't turnover at the pace I was demanding they go at. I used to be explosive, really quick and agile on the turn. Now I don't trust my knee turning in one direction and whilst I'm still reasonable on the ball, I have zero pace in terms of quick acceleration.

Now this can be caveated in hundreds of ways; I didn't have the same surgery, post-surgery rehab and support, level of doctor, physio, sports science etc. And that's all fair. But I am shocked he's even in the team at the moment, based on my own experiences, never mind performing okay. I think we should be managing his minutes more, playing him less, but the fact he's even at the level he's at so soon is amazing. He knows he's not quite there but I think we'll get him doing a fairly good impersonation of his pre injury self in the next few months as long as we manage him sensibly.

[MNAA]

State of some comments in here, it's like some people read twitter, shite sensationalistic journalism then come in here and regurgitate it all.

Of course he is still improving as he has said himself but he is still levels above the majority of defenders in the league, now the problem is everyone has their microscopes out desperately looking for any mistake he makes to then shout 'oh it must be his knee, his knee!! He's fucked see I told you!!' Really pathetic. Pretty sure he made mistakes and looked patchy in some games before his ACL, did anyone blame that when we got twatted by Aston Villa, didn't think so.

Exactly. I would happily have a “not yet at his best” Virgil over “no” Virgil all season everytime. After a year out, of course he is not yet at his best and of course he needs time. But a “ crippled” Virgil would still be in the top 5 central defenders in the world. And he is the reason why we are playing like we are at the moment. Stop scrutinising and complaining. Just enjoy our Big Guy

[RyanBabel19]

Has anyone here had an ACL injury? Honest question. I have, I ruptured my ACL, MCL and tour my meniscus when playing a few years back. I was playing at an okay semi-pro level at the time, in the 8th tier of English football. The season I got injured, I had 8 goals and 14 assists in 18 games as a midfielder. I was being asked to trial for sides in the lower reaches of the National League, the 5th tier of English Football, and did have a trial scheduled at a well-known Non-League club in North Wales. 3 years post injury, I now play 7s and 5s to an okay Sunday-Leagueish standard.

I had private consultations, surgery on the NHS at a private hospital, private physio and club physio and I never got back to close to what I was before, even with two years of continual rehab. I honestly had to teach myself to run again, it sounds comical but when I was back running, it was like my brain and body were to completely distinct entities that had no idea how to communicate; I couldn't accelerate properly and even putting one leg in front of the other at pace felt like it took massive concentration and brainpower. I used to stack it on the run all the time, like my legs couldn't turnover at the pace I was demanding they go at. I used to be explosive, really quick and agile on the turn. Now I don't trust my knee turning in one direction and whilst I'm still reasonable on the ball, I have zero pace in terms of quick acceleration.

Now this can be caveated in hundreds of ways; I didn't have the same surgery, post-surgery rehab and support, level of doctor, physio, sports science etc. And that's all fair. But I am shocked he's even in the team at the moment, based on my own experiences, never mind performing okay. I think we should be managing his minutes more, playing him less, but the fact he's even at the level he's at so soon is amazing. He knows he's not quite there but I think we'll get him doing a fairly good impersonation of his pre injury self in the next few months as long as we manage him sensibly.

I have. Few years back, really bad injury going by what the surgeon said and the MRI results were quite frightening when he showed me the black hole left where my ACL was supposed to be. Was hard work coming back especially after the horrifying experience of falling a week or so after the op. Having torn cartilage in the same knee previously and having bursitis issues also made things more complicated. Worked hard to get back though and just as quick and agile as before, it's such a complex thing.

They vary massively and its completely understandable that it's taking time for Virgil to find his feet. Trusting your Knee again is a huge obstacle to overcome and there's a reason people worry players could never be the same again after ligament damage.

Maybe i'm missing something in the thread and I haven't seen every post over the last few pages but i've seen no one saying or even suggesting Virgils 'finished' just some concern/questions over the large amount of gametime and acceptance that it's gonna take time for him to improve

[Caligula?]

Should we just play him against the dross of the league until he's up to speed? It'll make it easier for him to get back to where he was pre-injury but it'll also solidify us in defense. Play him against the Watfords of the league but start Matip and Gomez/Konaté against United, City, Spurs etc.

[xbugawugax]

Exactly. I would happily have a “not yet at his best” Virgil over “no” Virgil all season everytime. After a year out, of course he is not yet at his best and of course he needs time. But a “ crippled” Virgil would still be in the top 5 central defenders in the world. And the reason while we are playing like we are at the moment. Stop scrutinising and complaining. Just enjoy our Big Guy

me too. think his defending have always been front foot and more on anticipating the oppositions next move.  His recovery pace is just a back up option for him. griezman sold him a good one for the 2nd and unfortunately he was a bit too far off to make a proper challenge.

but it does look like hopefully he gets some rest soon. he have been almost ever present for us and the dutch national team.

[HardworkDedication]

Should we just play him against the dross of the league until he's up to speed? It'll make it easier for him to get back to where he was pre-injury but it'll also solidify us in defense. Play him against the Watfords of the league but start Matip and Gomez/Konaté against United, City, Spurs etc.

Personally I think we should be rotating our centre backs more often than we are currently doing but that's just my opinion. I would like to see Konate and Gomez given more opportunities. Not necessarily together but do think they deserve more minutes. I honestly didn't realise Van Dijk up to now has played every minute of every league game this season.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Klopp like many other managers rarely rotates at centre-back or defence as it’s one of those areas where stability and continuity is key. In the past few years when one of Matip, Gomez or Lovren were injured someone would come in and replace them and generally wouldn’t come out again until they got injured themselves.

I think VVD will get rested soonish but the likes of Kounate and Gomez will need to bide their time.

[MD1990]

CB's cover little ground in games.
Van Dijk was poor last night but overall his recovery is going well.

He will need time to get back to his best

[scatman]

I have. Few years back, really bad injury going by what the surgeon said and the MRI results were quite frightening when he showed me the black hole left where my ACL was supposed to be. Was hard work coming back especially after the horrifying experience of falling a week or so after the op. Having torn cartilage in the same knee previously and having bursitis issues also made things more complicated. Worked hard to get back though and just as quick and agile as before, it's such a complex thing.

They vary massively and its completely understandable that it's taking time for Virgil to find his feet. Trusting your Knee again is a huge obstacle to overcome and there's a reason people worry players could never be the same again after ligament damage.

Maybe i'm missing something in the thread and I haven't seen every post over the last few pages but i've seen no one saying or even suggesting Virgils 'finished' just some concern/questions over the large amount of gametime and acceptance that it's gonna take time for him to improve

Your last comment is right, no one here thinks Virgil is finished but we can point out when his performances have been cack lets say (probably because for us as a fanbase thats been such a rare thing!) still love the fella though. The manager trusts him and is playing him into form and fitness, also as someone mentioned before, once a centre back partnership is established under our manager he doesn't change it.

[Eeyore]

I think things are getting overblown here. For me we are deliberately playing quite open football and it is working. I think people expecting us to score 2's and 3's against elite level teams and keep clean sheets are living in cloud cuckoo land.

In 19/20 we were essentially playing a much tighter game with a workmanlike midfield 3. It was usually 3 from Fabinho, Hendo, Gini and Milner. Bringing in Thiago and promoting the likes of Jones and Elliot for me shows the manager is prepared to lose a little solidity in exchange for us creating more chances.

It is working we are on a ridiculously good run of scoring goals especially away from home. Did people really expect Liverpool to go away to Atletico one of the toughest places to play and score 3 and not concede chances to a couple of £100m forwards in Griezeman and Felix.

Make no mistake Atletico are probably the most clinical counter attacking team on the planet. I was delighted we managed to drag Atletico in to playing an open game rather than allowing them to grind us down.

Virgil has been fine for me this season. I just think peoples expectations are way over the top. Personally I have far more concerns over the midfield than the defence. Even that must be tempered by the fact that we are scoring more goals from midfield this season.

[afc tukrish]

Honest question. I have, I ruptured my ACL, MCL and tour my meniscus

Was that a joint journey, or did you fly solo?

[disgraced cake]

In the league I think he's going to play practically every game. I'd be surprised if he misses out more than three league fixtures providing he doesn't pick up another injury of any sorts. He's simply that important for us that he has to play. At least that's how Klopp feels. Ideally, he'll only have to play one more Champions League game of the three remaining in the groups. Would be very surprised if he plays any cup minutes. Unfortunately, there's still the international games too. God knows why's he playing against the likes of Gibraltar for Holland when they can presumably put younger centre halves out against poor opposition.

Not great last night but other than that I think it's only been the Brentford game where he's really struggled. This season he's obviously going to struggle to get to 'that level' he was at a couple of years back before his injury, but I still think he'll get back to that if not this season.

[PoetryInMotion]

I think things are getting overblown here. For me we are deliberately playing quite open football and it is working. I think people expecting us to score 2's and 3's against elite level teams and keep clean sheets are living in cloud cuckoo land.

In 19/20 we were essentially playing a much tighter game with a workmanlike midfield 3. It was usually 3 from Fabinho, Hendo, Gini and Milner. Bringing in Thiago and promoting the likes of Jones and Elliot for me shows the manager is prepared to lose a little solidity in exchange for us creating more chances.

It is working we are on a ridiculously good run of scoring goals especially away from home. Did people really expect Liverpool to go away to Atletico one of the toughest places to play and score 3 and not concede chances to a couple of £100m forwards in Griezeman and Felix.

Make no mistake Atletico are probably the most clinical counter attacking team on the planet. I was delighted we managed to drag Atletico in to playing an open game rather than allowing them to grind us down.

Virgil has been fine for me this season. I just think peoples expectations are way over the top. Personally I have far more concerns over the midfield than the defence. Even that must be tempered by the fact that we are scoring more goals from midfield this season.

Finally, I agree with one of your posts. Wow.

[wemmick]

Should we just play him against the dross of the league until he's up to speed? It'll make it easier for him to get back to where he was pre-injury but it'll also solidify us in defense. Play him against the Watfords of the league but start Matip and Gomez/Konaté against United, City, Spurs etc.

I think matches against the elite sides may be what he needs to get back up to speed. VVD still seems a little tentative with his body to me. He has fallen a few times now and I noticed the reply showed him looking at or touching that knee immediately afterward. I don't think he'll get up to speed until he really trusts his knee again, and he'll only gain that trust through playing. High-intensity matches especially. He'll learn to trust knee because he won't have choice. Griezmann demonstrated that to him last night. VVD will have to accelerate and tackle at full speed or he'll be burnt again and again. He is such a competitor. A little failure might really push on his recovery.   

[Sharado]

I think matches against the elite sides may be what he needs to get back up to speed. VVD still seems a little tentative with his body to me. He has fallen a few times now and I noticed the reply showed him looking at or touching that knee immediately afterward. I don't think he'll get up to speed until he really trusts his knee again, and he'll only gain that trust through playing. High-intensity matches especially. He'll learn to trust knee because he won't have choice. Griezmann demonstrated that to him last night. VVD will have to accelerate and tackle at full speed or he'll be burnt again and again. He is such a competitor. A little failure might really push on his recovery.   

I think there's something in this. He's been so good at times he feels like he doesn't need to make an effort, and that's fine when you're playing most teams but against elite teams you need to kick up that notch or two or get stung. A little lesson in that from Greizmann is probably just what was needed before going to OT.

[Crosby Nick]

Personally I think we should be rotating our centre backs more often than we are currently doing but that's just my opinion. I would like to see Konate and Gomez given more opportunities. Not necessarily together but do think they deserve more minutes. I honestly didn't realise Van Dijk up to now has played every minute of every league game this season.

I think we will soon enough. Although maybe with Matip they have accepted he’ll always pick up injuries so you make the most of him while he’s fit?

We’ll probably go Virgil and Joel at the weekend again but then we have the League Cup again and a chance to rotate in the CL now we’ve made good progress. Chuck in the Christmas pile up and I think all four will get plenty of starts between now and January.

[bornandbRED]

The Griezmann goal was more to do with poor awareness and positioning than any physical deficit - he has no idea where the attacker is and so Griezmann is able to go past with ease as by the time he sees him, Griezmann is already coming onto the ball. It’s reactive and not proactive, which is unusual for VVD.

Also for Griezmann’s 1v1 chance in the first half, he’s caught too far forward and is actually in the Atletico half which means Griezmann has the whole of Madrid to run into.

[killer-heels]

Would we not consider one of Konate or Gomez for the United game?

[MNAA]

I think things are getting overblown here. For me we are deliberately playing quite open football and it is working. I think people expecting us to score 2's and 3's against elite level teams and keep clean sheets are living in cloud cuckoo land.

In 19/20 we were essentially playing a much tighter game with a workmanlike midfield 3. It was usually 3 from Fabinho, Hendo, Gini and Milner. Bringing in Thiago and promoting the likes of Jones and Elliot for me shows the manager is prepared to lose a little solidity in exchange for us creating more chances.

It is working we are on a ridiculously good run of scoring goals especially away from home. Did people really expect Liverpool to go away to Atletico one of the toughest places to play and score 3 and not concede chances to a couple of £100m forwards in Griezeman and Felix.

Make no mistake Atletico are probably the most clinical counter attacking team on the planet. I was delighted we managed to drag Atletico in to playing an open game rather than allowing them to grind us down.

Virgil has been fine for me this season. I just think peoples expectations are way over the top. Personally I have far more concerns over the midfield than the defence. Even that must be tempered by the fact that we are scoring more goals from midfield this season.

Agree with Al (which is rare for me). We will be at our strongest when all of our spine (Ali, Virgil, Fabinho and Salah) plays. Hendo is a decent back up for Fabi mostly but against the likes of Atletico or the others, Fabi at his best is needed. Milner did alright but I thought Hendo was a little under par which did not help Naby. Naby however was culpable for the two goals for not playing tight. Naby could and should have stopped Lemar and Felix in their tracks

Fabinho and Thiago should be our first choice midfielders when fit and available. The 3rd spot is up for grabs. I would however love to see a midfield 3 of Fabi, Thiago and Naby being given a decent run of games together

[Crosby Nick]

Would we not consider one of Konate or Gomez for the United game?

Instead of Virgil? Do we need to?