Author Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General  (Read 1380197 times)

Offline 4pool

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26040 on: May 15, 2024, 10:14:52 pm »
Never wanted it in the first place as old threads will show.

But i'd be surprised if they bin it now.

For those pointing out it's the people not VAR, that is bullshit because the people are VAR. You can't separate the two.
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26041 on: May 15, 2024, 10:20:54 pm »
Why have it then? If it stays next season and the year after and the year after, it's going to be the same officials using it. And it's a license to cheat and gaslight.

I've just demonstrated how the VAR system (in the Premier League, League Cup and at times in Europe this season) has screwed us left, right and centre. Even in overruling the ref, or by backing them up when they fuck us over.

If the VAR system and process was actually overturning these awful decisions in our favour then you'd have a point.

The thing is, you use those decisions to put pressure on PGMOL to improve the refereeing. It seems nothing has been done in that regard or it has and PGMOL just don't care. PL clubs should be looking at what can be done about that and how they might be able to force improvements. Instead, getting rid of VAR is taking the easy way out. It's getting rid of one of the visible symptoms, while the cancer is still festering in the body.

Offline Fromola

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26042 on: May 15, 2024, 10:24:51 pm »
Never wanted it in the first place as old threads will show.

But i'd be surprised if they bin it now.

For those pointing out it's the people not VAR, that is bullshit because the people are VAR. You can't separate the two.

I think the only way you can separate the two, and give it a chance of working, is if the officials are taken out of it altogether and it's AI, like with goal-line tech. Potentially automated offsides for example when that's ready - the semi automated ones can still take far too long.

Things coming in need to enhance the gameplay aspect of it, not make it a shitshow.
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Offline Fromola

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26043 on: May 15, 2024, 10:32:13 pm »
The thing is, you use those decisions to put pressure on PGMOL to improve the refereeing. It seems nothing has been done in that regard or it has and PGMOL just don't care. PL clubs should be looking at what can be done about that and how they might be able to force improvements. Instead, getting rid of VAR is taking the easy way out. It's getting rid of one of the visible symptoms, while the cancer is still festering in the body.

Well, I never wanted VAR in the first place, at all, i'd rather just have better referees. I don't see why we can't get some of the best officials from abroad, rather than just some random Aussie. The best officials should be in the best leagues, just like the best players and managers are.

The thing with the PL is we've got the worst of both worlds. We've got terrible refs and VAR - and the worse the officials are, the worse the VAR is.

Getting rid of VAR isn't about it being the end game, it's about saying it's an impossible system when the officials are this bad, improve standards and then look at it again in the future if there's a chance of making it work (if and when we have better officials and available technology) because it hasn't worked and it won't work next season, no matter how many gimmicks Webb throws at it.
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Offline Lusty

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26044 on: May 15, 2024, 10:34:22 pm »
So you agree, we need better humans.
If you can find better humans you don't need VAR.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26045 on: May 15, 2024, 10:42:49 pm »
If you can find better humans you don't need VAR.


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Offline Jm55

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26046 on: May 15, 2024, 10:43:58 pm »
Never wanted it in the first place as old threads will show.

But i'd be surprised if they bin it now.

For those pointing out it's the people not VAR, that is bullshit because the people are VAR. You can't separate the two.

 agree with this.

The people using VAR are for the absolute most part, shit. That’s beyond question.

Would the experience of watching football matches with VAR improve if the competency of the people using it improved? Yes, without doubt.

But the issue with football is that a huge amount of decisions are subjective. The example I always come back to is the Van Dijk goal at Wembley which, thankfully, didn’t cost us and actually set up an even better ending. But anyway, that decision was ‘subjective offside,’ the reason they give it is because Endo is blocking off the Chelsea centre half. He’s in an offside position and as a result is deemed to have prevented the Chelsea centre half from making a challenge for the ball.

If you ask 100 people whether a goal should be disallowed for that you’ll get swathes of different responses. Even if you codify it as to what does and doesn’t constitute a ‘subjective offside’ offence, you will have differences of opinion over what does, or does not, constitute an offence. I was behind the goal when that went in and I can tell you now absolutely nobody anywhere near me, including the Chelsea players, showed any signs of thinking there was a hope of that getting disallowed, nobody ran to the referee, I actually cottoned onto it sooner than most around me as I saw, I think Chilwell, talking to the ref but that was only because he’d cottoned onto him having a conversation in his earpiece. I can personally live with the goal being disallowed if that’s what the ref sees on the pitch, but what I find absolutely infuriating is the goal being given, the players having a good 5 minutes to celebrate it, pyro going off in the end of fans behind the goal before everyone notices a conversation happening half the length of the pitch away and that horrible purple sign coming on the board before everyone is stranded, from players through to fans, without a clue what’s going on. Naturally, the outcome of that decision is quite likely to have a bearing on how the teams react, which it did. So it’s no longer just a refereeing decision, it’s fundamentally changing the game.

The reason I’m saying this is because VAR, even if you employ the best referees in existence, will always add another dimension into the game because the very nature of refereeing a football match is subjective. You’re always going to get people in a studio, who will know that their performance is being analysed, being desperate not to be the ones making the mistake, and that will always lead to this bizarre secondary type of refereeing whereby something which seemingly nobody in a stadium of 85k people noticed is used as justification for disallowing a goal.

It changes the nature of the sport and even if you rid us of the current crop of arse covering ex bizzies it will still continue to change the nature of the sport because it adds another dimension onto it, and that’s without the other differences it makes in the lengthy stoppages, the huge shift in the ascendancy of a team who gets a decision in their favour (again, see Chelsea who were on the back foot prior to that goal being disallowed who are then right on top and were understandably downbeat).

If you can bring it in to be something which is there as a fail safe and rarely used, only to catch those incidents which are so inexplicably wrong that to do so would be a grave injustice (I’m thinking that goal that Spurs don’t get given at OT in 2009 which is about a foot over the line), or, ironically, the perfectly good one which we score at Spurs which they manage to fuck up - then yeah, fine.

Anything more than that and it’s changing the nature of the sport and that is what people are voting for when they favour it in my opinion.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2024, 10:51:29 pm by Jm55 »

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26047 on: May 15, 2024, 10:45:52 pm »
It's basically a kid closing their eyes and putting their hands over their ears saying "No, my parents aren't fighting, everything is fine". Sure, get rid of VAR, but that way the standards of refereeing will never improve. VAR should have created a push in that direction, but instead people seem more arsed with not being able to celebrate rather than ask the question why a kick in the chest in the penalty area is not a penalty.

Well said

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26048 on: May 15, 2024, 10:49:08 pm »

That would be the case if we were all born with an extra pair eyes in the back of our heads.
The problem with referees is not that they didn't see things. Surely VAR has proved that.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26049 on: May 15, 2024, 10:55:57 pm »
But the issue with football is that a huge amount of decisions are subjective. The example I always come back to is the Van Dijk goal at Wembley which, thankfully, didn’t cost us and actually set up an even better ending. But anyway, that decision was ‘subjective offside,’ the reason they give it is because Endo is blocking off the Chelsea centre half.

If you ask 100 people whether a goal should be disallowed for that you’ll get swathes of different responses. Even if you codify it as to what does and doesn’t constitute a ‘subjective offside’ offence, you will have differences of opinion over what does, or does not, constitute an offence. I was behind the goal when that went in and I can tell you now absolutely nobody anywhere near me, including the Chelsea players, showed any signs of thinking there was a hope of that getting disallowed, nobody ran to the referee, I actually cottoned onto it sooner than most around me as I saw, I think Chilwell, talking to the ref but that was only because he’d cottoned onto him having a conversation in his earpiece.

It's a bad example you've picked there though, or maybe it's a good example, because it shows that VAR isn't used PROPERLY according to the VAR-protocol, which is the official guideline by IFAB on how to use VAR. It says: "For subjective decisions, e.g. intensity of a foul challenge, interference at offside, handball considerations, an ‘on-field review’ (OFR) is appropriate". The Endo-"offside" is the textbook example for this. It's a subjective decision, whether Endo was actually interfering with play. According to the VAR-protocol, again those are the official IFAB guidelines for the use of VAR, subjective decisions should be made by the ref using an 'on-field review'. That never happened. It never happened for the Odegaard handball. It never happened for the Doku karate-kick. Instead the decision was made by the VAR, which should NOT happen.

So, it is 100 percent clear PGMOL aren't applying VAR in accordance with the VAR-protocol, and again: those are the OFFICIAL IFAB GUIDELINES on how to use VAR. Yet, that NEVER got mentioned in public discussion. It was about how you get 100 people to look at the situation and you get 99 different opinions. Get rid of VAR for all I care, but again you're getting rid of the symptom instead of looking at the root cause of this which is an organisation that doesn't apply the rules correctly and nobody seems to care about that.

Offline Jshooters

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26050 on: May 15, 2024, 10:56:19 pm »
It's basically a kid closing their eyes and putting their hands over their ears saying "No, my parents aren't fighting, everything is fine". Sure, get rid of VAR, but that way the standards of refereeing will never improve. VAR should have created a push in that direction, but instead people seem more arsed with not being able to celebrate rather than ask the question why a kick in the chest in the penalty area is not a penalty.

We never had anywhere near the level of discussion about officiating that we do now.  Yes we questioned occasional  decisions but not nearly on the scale that exists since VAR came into being. It has become all consuming to the point that there’s fucking TV shows and news columnists dedicated to reviewing VAR decisions.

Edit: There’s also the consideration/paradox that the referees are shitting out of making big decisions in the hope that VAR will correct them and the VAR being unwilling to overturn an on field decision all of which is explained away with the clear and obvious bullshit 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2024, 11:10:27 pm by Jshooters »
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26051 on: May 15, 2024, 11:14:27 pm »
Bin it off, it’s used to set agendas and is, quite frankly, legalised match fixing in England IMO.

Also, after the absolute shambles of refereeing this season, Howard Webb’s position is completely untenable as well and he needs binning off as well.

Offline tray fenny

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26052 on: May 16, 2024, 12:47:54 am »
Didn't you used to celebrate disallowed goals before var ?
Like most others I could usually tell if a goal was good. On the other occassions the celebration was immediatley cut short
« Last Edit: May 16, 2024, 12:53:15 am by tray fenny »
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26053 on: May 16, 2024, 01:21:47 am »
Can't believe still people around in favour of VAR, it's fucking shite. Completely sucks the enjoyment out of the game. Football is supposed to be a free flowing organism in each stadium with a connection from the crowd to the players. This just adds a barrier to the enjoyment with it policed in some wooden cabin 200 miles away, waiting ages for some speaker or TV screen to say/show goal.
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Offline Keith Lard

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26054 on: May 16, 2024, 04:27:51 am »
The officials running VAR are utter garbage. How can anyone make a judgement on VAR at this early stage, and especially when the implementation of it has been so awful?

It has the potential to be good.
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Offline red1977

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26055 on: May 16, 2024, 06:55:09 am »
Replacing PGMOL isn't on the table. Getting rid of VAR is. So does the game improve with PGMOL dropping VAR or get worse?. Some say it's at an all time low at the moment. Everyone will have access to the replays anyway and so can still see what they are doing. We will have to accept human error, which you cant with VAR, will that be possible given the corruption calls?. I am still in favour of dropping it, if for nothing else, the current refs will have had the technology and then be left to do it on their own. If they still cant officiate to a decent level either way, there may next be changes to "who" officiates the game or bring in mic's, change the rules etc.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2024, 06:57:46 am by red1977 »

Offline Fromola

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26056 on: May 16, 2024, 07:03:46 am »
Can't stand Rooney but at least he's said it like it is with VAR.

The chuckle brothers are quiet. They were a dog with a bone with ESL. Absolute Sky/Premier League shills
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26057 on: May 16, 2024, 07:10:50 am »
Getting rid of VAR won’t make any difference now. We now know that the officials are cheating, that won’t change if var is binned.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26058 on: May 16, 2024, 07:31:58 am »
VAR is awful. And there is literally no chance that clubs will vote to bin it.

Offline ChrisLFCKOP

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26059 on: May 16, 2024, 07:35:15 am »
Can't wait for everyone to remember how bad it was without VAR and the constant complaining to continue. It's never going to change until the quality of the refs improves.

I don't remember being so outraged by a decision that I stew on it for years before VAR.  Yeah some moaning the week after, but now I have such a long list of fuck ups that was compounded or made worse because of having VAR that I bring up nearly every week when I see a similar decision given for or not for another team.

Lets go back to, yeah they make some mistakes but can forget about them after a week.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26060 on: May 16, 2024, 07:44:56 am »
I don't remember being so outraged by a decision that I stew on it for years before VAR.  Yeah some moaning the week after, but now I have such a long list of fuck ups that was compounded or made worse because of having VAR that I bring up nearly every week when I see a similar decision given for or not for another team.

Lets go back to, yeah they make some mistakes but can forget about them after a week.
The problem is, we now know they are not mistakes.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26061 on: May 16, 2024, 07:51:21 am »
As lots have said - VAR isn’t the problem. It’s the refs and PGMOL. They totally ignore official guidelines on how to implement and use VAR cos they think they know better. Removing VAR won’t improve the game or decision making. Only a root and branch reform of PGMOL that bring in new standards, total transparency and an organisation that focuses solely on making correct decisions using the tools they have available, will.

And we all know that’s not going to happen.
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26062 on: May 16, 2024, 07:59:59 am »
Didn't you used to celebrate disallowed goals before var ?

Yes, but you'd know almost immediately, either because the linesman had his flag up or the ref would blow. Now we have to wait 5 minutes whilst they look for any reason to disallow the goal before we can be sure.

Offline rob1966

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26063 on: May 16, 2024, 08:04:33 am »
Why have it then? If it stays next season and the year after and the year after, it's going to be the same officials using it. And it's a license to cheat and gaslight.

I've just demonstrated how the VAR system (in the Premier League, League Cup and at times in Europe this season) has screwed us left, right and centre. Even in overruling the ref, or by backing them up when they fuck us over.

If the VAR system and process was actually overturning these awful decisions in our favour then you'd have a point.

Because the VAR system, ie the Technology, is fine, it works. Can it be improved upon? Yes, by using cameras with a faster fps rate, MotoGP uses 1000 fps cameras, so bring that into football. Use the Adidas ball with the sensor. Remove clear and obvious, have the ref look again at a subjective decision, because it is his/her final decision that takes precedent.

The big issue is the referees. The introduction of VAR should have been a god send to them, because they then had a fall back where they could make a mistake and double check the decision and correct it. Its like at work, I write my software, I test it, then someone else tests it. If they find a bug, they don't hide behind "clear and obvious", they tell me, I fix it. I love this, because then I don't have bugs going into production. VAR should be the same. Like just last night, on field ref says no pen, replays clearly show Amrabat goes down Gordons leg, the ripped sock and the red skin back it up. Instead, VAR doesn't tell the ref to look again. THIS is what needs changing. We'll never know if refs are any good while we've got Webb and PGMOL running the referees, sack him, disband PGMOL, get a proper professional body doing the job, bring the standards up, encourage the VAR officials to highlight to referees potential issues and congratulate them on getting it right. Instead we have shite referees back covering each other, lying and cheating.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2024, 08:09:45 am by rob1966 »
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Offline rob1966

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26064 on: May 16, 2024, 08:07:58 am »
Never wanted it in the first place as old threads will show.

But i'd be surprised if they bin it now.

For those pointing out it's the people not VAR, that is bullshit because the people are VAR. You can't separate the two.

For me its two seperate entities - the humans, ie the VAR officials in the booth and the Technology, the hardware and software. One works, one doesn't

Example, you've got a data input clerk who continually fucks up the data they write to the database on the latest hi spec desktop/laptop. Do you sack the laptop off and go back to writing in a paper ledger, or do you sack the clerk and get someone who can do the job properly? This is where we are.

If you do view it as a single entity then the answer is screaming at you, the referees and PGMOL are shite and need sacking off.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2024, 08:42:29 am by rob1966 »
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26065 on: May 16, 2024, 08:13:30 am »
It's not VAR it's the people using it.

For example, how can someone watch a reply of Doku challenging Mac in the penalty and not at least call the ref to have a second look? These people are fit for purpose. The technology is fine.
Automated offside works fine because you're either on or you're off, no ambiguity bullshit. No humans are involved.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26066 on: May 16, 2024, 08:15:05 am »
VAR should be given to outside contractors. Get below a certain threshold of wrong decisions and the contract is given to someone else.
Wrong decisions should come with consequences.

Offline Qston

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26067 on: May 16, 2024, 08:18:30 am »
Is there a middle ground ?  Something along the lines (pardon the pun) limiting it to automated offside decision making, and penalty reviews ?  Leave it at that ?
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Offline rob1966

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26068 on: May 16, 2024, 08:22:28 am »
Is there a middle ground ?  Something along the lines (pardon the pun) limiting it to automated offside decision making, and penalty reviews ?  Leave it at that ?

Yes there is and that's always been my thinking, just do the basic stuff. If a player goes down, the ref looks at the monitor (takes what 5 seconds to run to pitch side?) checks there was a contact, its subjective, so if he feels the contact was enough, then pen stands, or like last night, sees that Amrabat not only went down Gordons achillies, but tore the sock and awards a pen. Same with handball, if the VAR sees it hit an arm, then ref looks and says yes or no, if it doesn't actually touch an arm, tell him. If they still get it blatantly wrong, then you need to ask why are they a referee if they are so bad and replace them.

And stop going back through the whole build up looking for an offence :butt
« Last Edit: May 16, 2024, 08:24:25 am by rob1966 »
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26069 on: May 16, 2024, 08:47:17 am »
Yes there is and that's always been my thinking, just do the basic stuff. If a player goes down, the ref looks at the monitor (takes what 5 seconds to run to pitch side?) checks there was a contact, its subjective, so if he feels the contact was enough, then pen stands, or like last night, sees that Amrabat not only went down Gordons achillies, but tore the sock and awards a pen. Same with handball, if the VAR sees it hit an arm, then ref looks and says yes or no, if it doesn't actually touch an arm, tell him. If they still get it blatantly wrong, then you need to ask why are they a referee if they are so bad and replace them.

And stop going back through the whole build up looking for an offence :butt

The offside is factual, and your suggestion on the penalty review is limiting the subjectivity. I really do think this is the way forward.

Also, when decisions are being made that needs to be communicated quickly and effectively to the match going fans. It is ridiculous that when you are watching it on telly you know pretty much what is going on, but at the game you don`t have a clue.
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Offline Elzar

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26070 on: May 16, 2024, 08:53:11 am »
Yes there is and that's always been my thinking, just do the basic stuff. If a player goes down, the ref looks at the monitor (takes what 5 seconds to run to pitch side?) checks there was a contact, its subjective, so if he feels the contact was enough, then pen stands, or like last night, sees that Amrabat not only went down Gordons achillies, but tore the sock and awards a pen. Same with handball, if the VAR sees it hit an arm, then ref looks and says yes or no, if it doesn't actually touch an arm, tell him. If they still get it blatantly wrong, then you need to ask why are they a referee if they are so bad and replace them.

And stop going back through the whole build up looking for an offence :butt

Problem is, with that one last night he probably looks at it in full speed and just sees Casemiro take the ball and plays on.

If you are going to use the video refereeing, you need to be able to look at the incidents in full which is what they are meant to be doing now, but they are so inept they still miss a foot down the back of the ankle, a player playing basketball and a kung fu kick. Even when they do go through the full incident together, they talk to each other like 18 year olds on a lads holiday so the communication isn't clear enough.

"Oli that was a wicked decision can confirm"
"Hold on Taysy, do you mean wicked as in good or wicked as in bad"
"Yeah Oli, mega mate"

Mean while some poor tech guy who is meant to just be there to press play is trying to hint they have got it wrong.
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Offline thaddeus

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26071 on: May 16, 2024, 08:56:36 am »
It would be amazing if the Wolves motion got a majority of votes.  I hope we throw our weight behind it.

Of course, if it doesn't pass then the PGMOL will spend the next 10 years taking it out on all the clubs that backed the motion!

Offline Andy2508

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26072 on: May 16, 2024, 09:11:41 am »
The technology is fine if used right, unfortunately the people using it are incompetent and that doesn't look like its going to change any time soon. Personally I'd keep it for offsides (the new automated system) alongside goal line tech and leave the on field ref to decide everything else. Offsides aren't subjective, you're either on or you're off.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26073 on: May 16, 2024, 09:24:48 am »
The technology is fine if used right, unfortunately the people using it are incompetent and that doesn't look like its going to change any time soon. Personally I'd keep it for offsides (the new automated system) alongside goal line tech and leave the on field ref to decide everything else. Offsides aren't subjective, you're either on or you're off.
Offside is the worst part of it.  It's not accurate enough so perfectly good goals are getting disallowed.  At least in cricket they acknowledge that and give umpire's call when it's close.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26074 on: May 16, 2024, 09:29:24 am »
The technology is fine if used right, unfortunately the people using it are incompetent and that doesn't look like its going to change any time soon. Personally I'd keep it for offsides (the new automated system) alongside goal line tech and leave the on field ref to decide everything else. Offsides aren't subjective, you're either on or you're off.
They still have a degree of being subjective.  Is an offside player active?  Was an inactive offside player impeding the goalkeeper or a defender?  Was the ball passed by a teammate?  Did a defender get a deflection on the pass?  If the defender did get a touch was it deliberate?

As AI algorithms get more powerful then it's feasible that in the not too distant future the whole thing could be automated.  If the Premier League goes full Luddite then the gap will only ever get bigger but I'd still take that.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26075 on: May 16, 2024, 09:30:22 am »
Re offsides - the tech literally doesn't work. Camera frames aren't accurate enough to discern when the ball leaves the foot.

Offline Andy2508

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26076 on: May 16, 2024, 09:31:22 am »
Offside is the worst part of it.  It's not accurate enough so perfectly good goals are getting disallowed.  At least in cricket they acknowledge that and give umpire's call when it's close.
It shouldn't be though. You're either Infront of the last defender or you're not. Perfectly good goals have been ruled out and will be ruled out again, without VAR. If they can bring in automated tech for the offsides similar to the goal line tech then I'd vote for that. Unfortunately it will be all or nothing and they'll carry on stopping the game multiple times for decisions that nobody can agree on.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26077 on: May 16, 2024, 09:31:37 am »
The technology is fine if used right, unfortunately the people using it are incompetent and that doesn't look like its going to change any time soon. Personally I'd keep it for offsides (the new automated system) alongside goal line tech and leave the on field ref to decide everything else. Offsides aren't subjective, you're either on or you're off.

Except that it's reliant on entirely subjective judgement of the frame that represents the moment the ball was played. Does the proposed semi-automated system address that? Or is it still based on the frame the VAR chooses?
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Offline Andy2508

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26078 on: May 16, 2024, 09:42:50 am »
Except that it's reliant on entirely subjective judgement of the frame that represents the moment the ball was played. Does the proposed semi-automated system address that? Or is it still based on the frame the VAR chooses?

I take all the points about the camera framing - I'm not aware of the new tech so I should state I'd only keep the offsides if the new system is able to accurately find the correct moments of play.

to be honest even if VAR rules out the odd goal because an offside is given because a frame was a few milliseconds out of sync, its better than a clearly offside goal being given by a linesman without VAR. At least any incorrect calls will be fractional. Without VAR there will be many goals ruled out/goals given by linesmen which VAR should easily pick up.

I completely understand the argument of getting rid, and I'm not totally against removing it. I just believe if used better, although it won't be perfect it's better than the alternative.

Offline Lusty

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #26079 on: May 16, 2024, 09:44:42 am »
It shouldn't be though. You're either Infront of the last defender or you're not. Perfectly good goals have been ruled out and will be ruled out again, without VAR. If they can bring in automated tech for the offsides similar to the goal line tech then I'd vote for that. Unfortunately it will be all or nothing and they'll carry on stopping the game multiple times for decisions that nobody can agree on.
The problem is that the technology doesn't know whether you're in front of the last defender or not.  Honestly the conversation around VAR needs to change to acknowledge that.  The margin of error is huge.