Topic: Autocup

[VVM]

Surely there will be more on 4 than the number of ACS seats available. I'd be surprised if members on 4 end up being guaranteed and don't have to go into a ballot.

[30fiver]

Sorry, but I’m reading it the same as redgriffin73.

‘Everyone with at least one game will be asked to register their interest…’

Surely it should be those with four games registering their interest and then working down? Why are those with one even in the equation?

I think what he was trying to say was everyone who wants to go to at least 1 game next season in any form of comp has to register interest per comp

[30fiver]

Surely there will be more on 4 than the number of ACS seats available. I'd be surprised if members on 4 end up being guaranteed and don't have to go into a ballot.

Exactly... hence why it'll be a ballot

[D🐶G]

Exactly... hence why it'll be a ballot

I don’t think anyone is disputing that there’ll be a ballot based on the information available. But why a ballot? Why the sudden shift from putting the tickets on sale to holding a ballot?

[redgriffin73]

I think you've read this wrong mate. If there's enough tickets for people with all 4 credits from 19/20 then there'd be a guaranteed sale, moving down until there wasn't a guaranteed sale where a likely ballot would be held.

Ah thanks (that'll teach me to read RAWK quickly while pretending to also work!) - I was assuming if it was oversubscribed on say 1+ then everyone 1+ would then go in a ballot.

[redgriffin73]

Eh?

Ignore me, having a blonde moment!

[D🐶G]

I think what he was trying to say was everyone who wants to go to at least 1 game next season in any form of comp has to register interest per comp

For general ticketing or buying on a match by match basis, maybe. But the ACS? If you’ve not been to four games from 19/20, then you’ve got no chance of getting on the ACS, so why should they be registering their interest in joining it when it’ll clearly be over subscribed for those on four games as it is?

[D🐶G]

Ignore me, having a blonde moment!

Well you’re not the only one then, because I must be missing something too as I still can’t get my head around the ‘everyone with at least one game will be asked to register their interest…’ comment.

[scouser102002]

Ignore me, having a blonde moment!

Me too, tbf haha

[redgriffin73]

Well you’re not the only one then, because I must be missing something too as I still can’t get my head around the ‘everyone with at least one game will be asked to register their interest…’ comment.

That was the bit that confused me too but hopefully sonofkenny will be back at some point to clarify for us.

It's making my brain ache trying to get my head around all these changes to come!

[jonnypb]

I'd imagine a few thousand given we only did 4 games in 19/20

The issue isn't the first game its when you get to the later rounds and uefa return less and less allocation, so people miss out

Lets say as an example, uefa return 4000 seats per group game, 3000 for the last 16, 2000 for the quarters and 1000 for the semi

Those seats are all sold but aren't there for ACS the following year as uefa might take them

Loads missed out on Roma, City, Barca and even a few I know on Atletico

As a result, the further you get in the comp the fewer members actually qualify for ACS the following year
So because we didnt get that far, in my example above there'd be 3000 member qualifying for ACS seats that don't exist

This is why it's ridiculous that they'd use the 4 games from 19/20 to allow people to join the ACS.  People who have been in the ACS for the last few years and done all home games since the europa league could lose out to people who have just done 4 games last season who weren't even in the ACS.  To get the ACS for 19/20 you needed the 6 CL homes from 18/19, they should have at least gone back to this.

[Welshred]

For general ticketing or buying on a match by match basis, maybe. But the ACS? If you’ve not been to four games from 19/20, then you’ve got no chance of getting on the ACS, so why should they be registering their interest in joining it when it’ll clearly be over subscribed for those on four games as it is?

How do you know if it'll be oversubscribed? A few hundred season ticket holders didn't buy their season tickets for next season because they didn't know whether they'd be able to attend games and took advantage of the 1 season break offered by the club. There could be a lot of members with 4 CL credits on their cards that could be doing the same.

A lot of people thought Palace was going to be tough in the ballot last season yet everyone on 19 who wanted one got one, I suspect this will be similar here.

[30fiver]

I don’t think anyone is disputing that there’ll be a ballot based on the information available. But why a ballot? Why the sudden shift from putting the tickets on sale to holding a ballot?

It's a fairer allocation process than someone sitting there with 10+ devices compared to 70 year old John who hardly knows how to use a phone

The old system people missed out, first come first served

Much fairer way to give people plenty of panic free time to sign up for a ballot over a few days, to then know they're guaranteed a ticket in the sale, even if they can't make it at 8.15am

[Craig S]

Well you’re not the only one then, because I must be missing something too as I still can’t get my head around the ‘everyone with at least one game will be asked to register their interest…’ comment.

We only had one game in the league cup.
We only had 2 in the FAC.

They will follow the same process in each cup. People are using the term ACS to just refer to Europe, but the domestics have their scheme too.

I would imagine it will be like the season ticket renewal and do them all at the same time. You get a tick box for each one you want to enter (that you are eligible for).

[VVM]

How do you know if it'll be oversubscribed? A few hundred season ticket holders didn't buy their season tickets for next season because they didn't know whether they'd be able to attend games and took advantage of the 1 season break offered by the club. There could be a lot of members with 4 CL credits on their cards that could be doing the same.

A lot of people thought Palace was going to be tough in the ballot last season yet everyone on 19 who wanted one got one, I suspect this will be similar here.

There is the potential that some people don't want to go due to no credits being awarded. I guess it's a chance to save money too, knowing you won't miss out the season after, especially if Covid has left you in a tough spot financially.

[30fiver]

There is the potential that some people don't want to go due to no credits being awarded. I guess it's a chance to save money too, knowing you won't miss out the season after, especially if Covid has left you in a tough spot financially.

A lot less ST holders returned than I expected.. However, I think the 'free hit' on transfers is encouraging people to renew and transfer every match

[kalle-anka]

Not sure what you mean here, season ticket holders cannot just join the ACS now, they have to have been to a number of games the previous season now, or am I missing something here?

So what you are saying is that we should have a closed shop like the away games?  not sure I agree with that, I think they have been more than fair with this.

As stated above 250 ‘1 year ST’ will be issues this season and they have the option to join the ACS regardless of credits or not.

I think we should reward loyalty, surely someone that’s been to the past 20 home European matches deserves to join the ACS more than someone with just the last 4??

But the thing that I got annoyed with is the fact that it’s now a ballot if not everyone can be allocated instead of like previous a first come first serve sale. It’s just as fair to get a ‘lucky queue position’ online as a random number in a ballot, but at least you felt like you had a chance to impact the outcome in a sale.

[gray19lfc]

So how many credits will the ACS for 2021/22 start on? Is it 4 from 2019/20? So all the group games and the last 16 vs Atleti? And the 6 games from the season we won it count for f all?

[scouser102002]

So how many credits will the ACS for 2021/22 start on? Is it 4 from 2019/20? So all the group games and the last 16 vs Atleti? And the 6 games from the season we won it count for f all?

Well they didn’t count for fuck all, they got you in the ACS in 19/20

[Welshred]

So how many credits will the ACS for 2021/22 start on? Is it 4 from 2019/20? So all the group games and the last 16 vs Atleti? And the 6 games from the season we won it count for f all?

It's only ever been the games from the previous season that have counted for the ACS though, that's not changed.

[TeddyTime33]

So how many credits will the ACS for 2021/22 start on? Is it 4 from 2019/20? So all the group games and the last 16 vs Atleti? And the 6 games from the season we won it count for f all?

not sure what 18/19 has to do with anything, the club are doing what would've been done for last season had there been fans so I'm not sure why people are annoyed

[gray19lfc]

Well they didn’t count for fuck all, they got you in the ACS in 19/20

But now I’m in the same pot as someone with 4 credits who wasn’t in the ACS before.

[Welshred]

But now I’m in the same pot as someone with 4 credits who wasn’t in the ACS before.

You'd have been in that pot regardless, it's always been the previous season used.

[gray19lfc]

You'd have been in that pot regardless, it's always been the previous season used.

Yeah I know but I imagine there’ll be more people with 4 games getting onto the ACS for this season than there were those getting onto the ACS with 6 the season before.

[Welshred]

Yeah I know but I imagine there’ll be more people with 4 games getting onto the ACS for this season than there were those getting onto the ACS with 6 the season before.

That's just the way the cookie crumbles, blame Adrian

[redgriffin73]

That's just the way the cookie crumbles, blame Adrian

[Hij]

This is why it's ridiculous that they'd use the 4 games from 19/20 to allow people to join the ACS.  People who have been in the ACS for the last few years and done all home games since the europa league could lose out to people who have just done 4 games last season who weren't even in the ACS.  To get the ACS for 19/20 you needed the 6 CL homes from 18/19, they should have at least gone back to this.

Yep.

[Hij]

It's only ever been the games from the previous season that have counted for the ACS though, that's not changed.

Should change it though.

I remember a year for the FA Cup when they went back over two seasons, could easily go back so that 2000-3000 are ring fenced for long time ACS subscribers and then a sale of the rest.

A guaranteed sale is held in basically every other competition.

[sonofkenny]

Right.

NO ONE is getting on the ACS if they haven't been to CL games last season, the new Season Ticket Holders included, EVERYONE has to have CL game history from last season.

The Club will be asking EVERYONE who attended at least one game to register, there are several reasons for this:

1.  They want everyone to get used to this process
2.  They don't know how many people will want attend
3.  They want to see who wants to go and to start tracking numbers more accurately.

They will only use a ballot if there are too many people and too few tickets.  So if they can accommodate everyone with four, there is no ballot for them, just straight in.  Any ballot will be for those with three and so on until sold out.

[sonofkenny]

Should change it though.

I remember a year for the FA Cup when they went back over two seasons, could easily go back so that 2000-3000 are ring fenced for long time ACS subscribers and then a sale of the rest.

A guaranteed sale is held in basically every other competition.

Not this year, will only happen if they can accommodate everyone, otherwise a ballot.

they have always sold home games like this, going back over previous seasons will just create another closed shop.

[sonofkenny]

But now I’m in the same pot as someone with 4 credits who wasn’t in the ACS before.

And at some point in the past you would have been in the same situation..... so by your logic you might not even have got on the ACS originally....

[scouser102002]

But now I’m in the same pot as someone with 4 credits who wasn’t in the ACS before.

Why does being in the ACS give someone more loyalty?

It makes no difference whether someone got the 4 tickets from individual sales or by being in the ACS.

[sonofkenny]

Why does being in the ACS give someone more loyalty?

It makes no difference whether someone got the 4 tickets from individual sales or by being in the ACS.

For once I agree with you ;-)

[TeddyTime33]

That's just the way the cookie crumbles, blame Adrian

it's funny how it works out, had we won that game we'd looking at 18/19 credits for UCL too

[redgriffin73]

Thanks for the clarification sonofkenny

[AR48]

Why does being in the ACS give someone more loyalty?

It makes no difference whether someone got the 4 tickets from individual sales or by being in the ACS.

Very true

[D🐶G]

Right.

NO ONE is getting on the ACS if they haven't been to CL games last season, the new Season Ticket Holders included, EVERYONE has to have CL game history from last season.

The Club will be asking EVERYONE who attended at least one game to register, there are several reasons for this:

1.  They want everyone to get used to this process
2.  They don't know how many people will want attend
3.  They want to see who wants to go and to start tracking numbers more accurately.

They will only use a ballot if there are too many people and too few tickets.  So if they can accommodate everyone with four, there is no ballot for them, just straight in.  Any ballot will be for those with three and so on until sold out.

Thanks for clarifying that. Makes sense now.

[jonnypb]

Well they didn’t count for fuck all, they got you in the ACS in 19/20

The point being that ACS never rewards loyalty.  It's easy to get 4 home cup credits and there had been indications if you had ACS in 19/20 you would automatically get ACS the next year.  To get the ACS in 19/20 you needed all 6 homes from 18/19.  It's about rewarding loyalty, instead people who have been on the ACS are now thrown into the pot with others and it was quite easy to get 4 home games in the CL.

Why does being in the ACS give someone more loyalty?

It makes no difference whether someone got the 4 tickets from individual sales or by being in the ACS.

On your thinking that's like saying why does being a STH give someone more loyalty    Loyalty is rewarded in every other competition other than the ACS.  Certain amount of league home games guarantees you getting a home ticket, same with aways.  If they scrapped loyalty in the league and aways I'm sure people would have something to say about it.

[sonofkenny]

The point being that ACS never rewards loyalty.  It's easy to get 4 home cup credits and there had been indications if you had ACS in 19/20 you would automatically get ACS the next year.  To get the ACS in 19/20 you needed all 6 homes from 18/19.  It's about rewarding loyalty, instead people who have been on the ACS are now thrown into the pot with others and it was quite easy to get 4 home games in the CL.


On your thinking that's like saying why does being a STH give someone more loyalty    Loyalty is rewarded in every other competition other than the ACS.  Certain amount of league home games guarantees you getting a home ticket, same with aways.  If they scrapped loyalty in the league and aways I'm sure people would have something to say about it.

Loyalty is being rewarded though.  How far back would you go out of interest and I presume you are advocating every sale should go back over a number of years including home and away League games?

And if it is easy to get 4, what’s the problem? You will get what you want won’t you?!?

[jonnypb]

Loyalty is being rewarded though.  How far back would you go out of interest and I presume you are advocating every sale should go back over a number of years including home and away League games?

And if it is easy to get 4, what’s the problem? You will get what you want won’t you?!?

There’s no reason why they couldn’t go back 2 or 3 seasons and stage the sales more so that people who have gone for several years and been in the ACS are rewarded for loyalty. Doing this doesn’t make it a closed shop for others either unlike aways, or league games for people with full home credits.

So why do they go back a number of years with aways in some of the cups? Why not just go back one season and throw loads of people into a ballot? Do you think that the people who have gone to aways in the cups would be happy?

No need to go back a number of years for league games because you are guaranteed homes leagues with x amount of games, so there’s your loyalty being rewarded.

It’s the latter rounds from the quarter finals in the CL that are hard to get as UEFA takes more tickets, so no you won’t get what you want. Same with the FA cup, if you draw a rival, or progress further in the cup then tickets are almost impossible to get without the ACS.  Plus being in the ACS saves so much hassle trying for seats in the sales.