Topic: The Top Six Mini-League Thread... Sponsored by TENA

[Kelvinlfc]

Like last year?

We need another 9 points out of 12. If we don't achieve that then I'll highly doubt we'll make top 4

We wouldn't deserve to either, how many times are this side going to let themselves down before growing the bollocks & mental strength to see a challenge through. We capitulate far too often under pressure it's so frustrating!!

[Day1983]

We wouldn't deserve to either, how many times are this side going to let themselves down before growing the bollocks & mental strength to see a challenge through. We capitulate far too often under pressure it's so frustrating!!

Maybe getting over the line is beyond this team

[Anfield Kopite]

A lot of negativity in this thread i feel because we lost on Sunday. But we had won our  previous 2 and had not lost before that for a good while. If i had been offered 66 points after 34 games at the start of the season i would have snapped the hand off. Thats because it gives us a very good chance of top 4.

[Anfield Kopite]

Yep we have slipped up against lesser teams but made up for that against the more expensively assembled teams. Like i said 66 points from 34 games is a decent effort overall for a team that finished 8th last season and had a negative nett spend while nearly all our rivals splashed some cash. I think we will make top 4 but i didnt think that at the start of the season.

[lionel_messias]

Yep we have slipped up against lesser teams but made up for that against the more expensively assembled teams. Like i said 66 points from 34 games is a decent effort overall for a team that finished 8th last season and had a negative nett spend while nearly all our rivals splashed some cash. I thin we will make top 4 but i didnt think that at the start of the season.

I think the frustration is basic defensive errors should be relatively easy to eradicate for elite level coaching staff.

It *should* be easy to fix the defense than creating a world class attack.

Let's just win the next two games whatever we have to do, and then watch to see how much Arsenal, and Man U slip up.

I don't want to even say this, but it would be galling for Arsenal to catch us, having witnessed at their ground, the absolute shellacking we gave Wenger's team on the opening day.

[Anfield Kopite]

Don't get me started, but that is definitely no badge of honor or anything to be proud of. If you're pleased with 66 points from 34 with a negative net spend, imagine where we could be if we spent some fucking money.

oh i agree totally. Thats why when some were pleased with the summer transfer window i was totally pissed off. I thought we would be well out of the race for top 4 by now. Thats thats why im relatively pleased with our points total. But i agree we should have spent some money.

[Grobbelrevell]

But i agree we should have spent some money.

Without wanting to derail the thread, we did spend money. £67.92m to be exact. Spurs' gross outlay was £70.13, for comparison, and that included a combined £48.54m on Sissoko and Jansen.

The issue is really around how much money we spent and whether it was enough given the state of our squad, also factoring in departures and whether they too were good decisions.

I personally think we left ourselves short, particularly in the attacking third. Mane, to me, was a replacement for Sterling, albeit a delayed one, and we still lacked one more of a similar profile and calibre, which (and yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing) has subsequently proven to be the case, and Klopp has referenced it several times himself. With that in mind I was surprised that we didn't bring Markovic back in January. If nothing else, to simply fill a space on the bench. Is anyone going to argue that he wouldn't have been a useful option right now or since the turn of the year, for instance?

[mrantarctica]

Without wanting to derail the thread, we did spend money. £67.92m to be exact. Spurs' gross outlay was £70.13, for comparison, and that included a combined £48.54m on Sissoko and Jansen.

The issue is really around how much money we spent and whether it was enough given the state of our squad, also factoring in departures and whether they too were good decisions.

I personally think we left ourselves short, particularly in the attacking third. Mane, to me, was a replacement for Sterling, albeit a delayed one, and we still lacked one more of a similar profile and calibre, which (and yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing) has subsequently proven to be the case, and Klopp has referenced it several times himself. With that in mind I was surprised that we didn't bring Markovic back in January. If nothing else, to simply fill a space on the bench. Is anyone going to argue that he wouldn't have been a useful option right now or since the turn of the year, for instance?

The departures in particular haven't been replaced well:

Gerrard, Suarez, Sturridge (now broken, perhaps permanently) and Sterling were all top class for us. We've really struggled to replace that level of quality. Mane and Coutinho have been close to that level, but Firmino, Lallana, Wijnaldum and Origi have all been quite a step down from that level - even though they are all good players.  We've probably taken a lesser step backwards in terms of defenders. IMHO I don't think we've ever really had strong personnel there under the last 2 managers.

[JackWard33]

Absolutely. He's not great by any means but I don't see how he wouldn't have been a better option than some of the kids we've had to play. And he has pace - which we've sorely, sorely lacked both times mane's been away.

The failure to get cover in for Mane over january is absolutely baffling to this day to me. Whether it was indeed Klopp's decision or the board's or whoever it was absolutely negligent to not have addressed an issue we knew was coming with our most important player.

Well it was also cover for Coutinho who we knew was out and we were too thin to start with.
The worst decision and piece of management we've seen...... since the last terrible decision not to strengthen the squad properly (take your pick!)

[Anfield Kopite]

As im sure you knew Grobellrevel i was talking nettt spend. Our lack of a nett spend has left  a very thin squad. But like you said lets not derail the thread.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

If i had been offered 66 points after 34 games at the start of the season i would have snapped the hand off.

Would you have taken it after 43 points from 19 games?

[Anfield Kopite]

Would you have taken it after 43 points from 19 games?

No mate. But i certainly expected our lack of depth to catch up with us. I think we definately punched well above our weight in the opening months of the season but overall we have done better than i expected. I didnt think we would make top 4 at the start of the season but i do think we will make it now despite having a very thin squad.

[killer-heels]

Would you have taken it after 43 points from 19 games?

No but if you told me we are losing Mane for most of the remaining matches and Coutinho wont really be effective until late March/April, as well as potentially losing Henderson for the season then I am delighted with anything around 75 points.

[Anfield Kopite]

No but if you told me we are losing Mane for most of the remaining matches and Coutinho wont really be effective until late March/April, as well as potentially losing Henderson for the season then I am delighted with anything around 75 points.

Yep. We have done well all things considered.

[Pistolero]

A lot of negativity in this thread i feel because we lost on Sunday.

it's not just because of that...the previous home game - against a shite side, we were leading with 3 mins to go and end up with a single point...Sunday - again against low level, defensive opponents, leading from early in the game and we end up with fuckall.....to lose 5 points at home at this stage of the season against such sides, asks serious questions about this group of players' capacity to deal with the pressure of an end of season run-in ...and as we have 4 more bus-parking, 11 men in the box opponents to face before Michelle McManus sings, it has understandably given many cause for concern....

[Anfield Kopite]

it's not just because of that...the previous home game - against a shite side, we were leading with 3 mins to go and end up with a single point...Sunday - again against low level, defensive opponents, leading from early in the game and we end up with fuckall.....to lose 5 points at home at this stage of the season against such sides, asks serious questions about this group of players' capacity to deal with the pressure of an end of season run-in ...and as we have 4 more bus-parking, 11 men in the box opponents to face before Michelle McManus sings, it has understandably given many cause for concern....

Yes but on the other side of the coin we had 2 tough away games in between those home games against the sort of opposition we struggle against whilst struggling with injuries and we showed the mental toughness to grind out 2 wins. Swings and roundabouts I suppose. But in general, since the clusterfuck that was January we have 20 points from our last 10 games. That is top 4 form as 2 points per game over a season always gets top 4.

[bailey90]

Pogba out for united, aguero fit for city.

[newterp]

Pogba out for united, aguero fit for city.

just about to post that - great news. Especially if Silva makes it.

[Pistolero]

Yes but on the other side of the coin we had 2 tough away games in between those home games against the sort of opposition we struggle against whilst struggling with injuries and we showed the mental toughness to grind out 2 wins. Swings and roundabouts I suppose. But in general, since the clusterfuck that was January we have 20 points from our last 10 games. That is top 4 form as 2 points per game over a season always gets top 4.

any side with any pretensions toward a Champions League place should - at the thick end of the season - be going to Stoke and WBA and beating them...and we did indeed do very well in both games, but to be honest that doesn't excuse the inconsistency and level of performance against Bournemouth and Palace, a level that yielded 1 point from 6 and has left us with an unnecessary and avoidable uphill struggle.....we can't avoid a single slip up now if we want that top 4 spot - which in the context of the season, and how we've regualrly smacked the arses of our top 6 rivals, is a travesty

[amirani]

just about to post that - great news. Especially if Silva makes it.

Pogba out? Can't see United losing now.

[newterp]

Pogba out? Can't see United losing now.

haha

[Anfield Kopite]

any side with any pretensions toward a Champions League place should - at the thick end of the season - be going to Stoke and WBA and beating them...and we did indeed do very well in both games, but to be honest that doesn't excuse the inconsistency and level of performance against Bournemouth and Palace, a level that yielded 1 point from 6 and has left us with an unnecessary and avoidable uphill struggle.....we can't avoid a single slip up now if we want that top 4 spot - which in the context of the season, and how we've regualrly smacked the arses of our top 6 rivals, is a travesty

I disagree. If we get 8 points from our last 4 I think we will make it. But we will see. What you describe as the context of our season I see as swings and roundabouts. We have underperformed against the lesser sides and over performed against the rest of the top 7. Overall we are on target for a points total that usually gets you top 4 which is a lot better than i expected before a ball was kicked this season.

[amirani]

just about to post that - great news. Especially if Silva makes it.

Gabriel Jesus is back in training as well. He could play a part in few of the remaining games.

[Pistolero]

I disagree. If we get 8 points from our last 4 I think we will make it. But we will see. What you describe as the context of our season I see as swings and roundabouts. We have underperformed against the lesser sides and over performed against the rest of the top 7. Overall we are on target for a points total that usually gets you top 4 which is a lot better than i expected before a ball was kicked this season.

what you describe as swings and roundabouts I view as inconsistency, and until we get somewhere near to overcoming that fatal flaw we'll always be yesterday's men.....easier said than done obviously - and I totally believe Klopp is the man to do it.......it's just uber-frustrating that we face the possibility of falling at the final hurdle as we did last season, and jeopardising/stalling his rebuilding job....I think that's why heads have been down since Sunday.....all we can do is redress the balance by twatting Watford and marching on from there.

[Anfield Kopite]

what you describe as swings and roundabouts I view as inconsistency, and until we get somewhere near to overcoming that fatal flaw we'll always be yesterday's men.....easier said than done obviously - and I totally believe Klopp is the man to do it.......it's just uber-frustrating that we face the possibility of falling at the final hurdle as we did last season, and jeopardising/stalling his rebuilding job....I think that's why heads have been down since Sunday.....all we can do is redress the balance by twatting Watford and marching on from there.

Oh I agree that its inconsistency. Its just that I expected us to be inconsistent. We came 8th last year and In my opinion a negative nett spend is not the way to go from finishing 8th to getting top 4. So I expected us to be more inconsistent (or shite if you prefer) than we have been because our squad has not got the depth to be consistent enough over the course of a full season unless we are very lucky with injuries. I love Klopp though and would hate to lose him. Its not him I blame but we wont go in to that.

[istvan kozma]

just about to post that - great news. Especially if Silva makes it.

People like yourself are totally forgetting about Arsenal. They're the team that regularly finishes in the top 4 and they're the team that always goes on a run at this stage of the season. If they take at least 4 points from their next 2 games, it would surprise me if they won all their remaining fixtures and finish with 76 point's.

[killer-heels]

People like yourself are totally forgetting about Arsenal. They're the team that regularly finishes in the top 4 and they're the team that always goes on a run at this stage of the season. If they take at least 4 points from their next 2 games, it would surprise me if they won all their remaining fixtures and finish with 76 point's.

So surely the answer here is to never give a shit about others and just worry about ourselves then?

[newterp]

People like yourself are totally forgetting about Arsenal. They're the team that regularly finishes in the top 4 and they're the team that always goes on a run at this stage of the season. If they take at least 4 points from their next 2 games, it would surprise me if they won all their remaining fixtures and finish with 76 point's.

Not forgetting about them at all - they need to play Spurs and United still. They need to win, we need to win, Yernited needs to win - so somethings got to give - and as repeated ad nauseum - the other teams have to take points from each other.

[Crosby Nick]

People like yourself are totally forgetting about Arsenal. They're the team that regularly finishes in the top 4 and they're the team that always goes on a run at this stage of the season. If they take at least 4 points from their next 2 games, it would surprise me if they won all their remaining fixtures and finish with 76 point's.

Looking forward to the panic when they beat Leicester later.

[newterp]

Looking forward to the panic when they beat Leicester later.

panic should only set in if they beat Spurs on Sunday.

[Believe]

Not sure people are considering the market in January - still inflated by China, lack of players available and our top targets tied to their clubs, unless for silly money, until summer. I'm curious as to who we should have signed, that was available, that would have slotted in seamlessly and provided cover for Mane and/or improved on what we have, without the ability to foresee the injuries we've had?

[istvan kozma]

So surely the answer here is to never give a shit about others and just worry about ourselves then?

The only reason to never give a shit about others, is if you believe a team who's won 6 games in 4 months is all of a sudden going to win 4 games in a row, at a part of the season where they usually crumble.

[JackWard33]

People like yourself are totally forgetting about Arsenal. They're the team that regularly finishes in the top 4 and they're the team that always goes on a run at this stage of the season. If they take at least 4 points from their next 2 games, it would surprise me if they won all their remaining fixtures and finish with 76 point's.

It's possible for them to qualify but the reason its unlikely isn't the maths its their team
Their underlying numbers make them easily the weakest of the top 6. They just have huge problems in midfield and at the back.
So yes its possible they get to 76 points but their level this season makes it unlikely

[Crosby Nick]

panic should only set in if they beat Spurs on Sunday.

Then we hope Spurs slip up tonight too and against United and we'll catch them instead.

[bailey90]

People like yourself are totally forgetting about Arsenal. They're the team that regularly finishes in the top 4 and they're the team that always goes on a run at this stage of the season. If they take at least 4 points from their next 2 games, it would surprise me if they won all their remaining fixtures and finish with 76 point's.

How does that statement mean he's forgetting about Arsenal?

[JP-65]

After the Leicester loss, we had gone unbeaten in 7, 5 wins & 2 draws, & everyone was feeling comfortable.

The loss to Palace & United beating Chelsea & Burnley has "adjusted" people's perception of our probability of success.

It has been noted many times, how many difficult matches remain for United & Arsenal.

For the record though, over the last 8 matches, United has taken 18 points, LFC has taken 17 points, City 15 & Arsenal 10.  So, even with the Palace loss & Bournemouth late giveaway, we've more than held our own in the run in so far

[Anfield Kopite]

After the Leicester loss, we had gone unbeaten in 7, 5 wins & 2 draws, & everyone was feeling comfortable.

The loss to Palace & United beating Chelsea & Burnley has "adjusted" people's perception of our probability of success.

It has been noted many times, how many difficult matches remain for United & Arsenal.

For the record though, over the last 8 matches, United has taken 18 points, LFC has taken 17 points, City 15 & Arsenal 10.  So, even with the Palace loss & Bournemouth late giveaway, we've more than held our own in the run in so far

This is what ive been pointing out on this page. We have taken 20 points from our last 10. We have shown the 2 points per game consistency that gets you top 4 over the recent months.

[rob1966]

Being a Liverpool fan has knocked at least 30 years off my life expectancy

All the trophies ive seen us win has added 30 to mine 

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Being a Liverpool fan has knocked at least 30 years off my life expectancy

taken a good 25 off my hairline

[andy07]

City v Utd.   A draw keeps us in 3rd gives both the chance of overtaking us with their game in hand.  A City win puts them in poll position for third and leaves Utd needing to win their game in hand to draw level with us.    A United win puts them level on ponts with us with a game in hand.  What do we go for?  Putting my natural instincts aside in wanting Utd to lose every game they play and looking logically I will be hoping for a City win even if it reduces the likelihood of us finishing third.   Need Utd to still be 3 points behind us after tomorrows game.