Topic: The Top Six Mini-League Thread... Sponsored by TENA

[killer-heels]

We won't all four of our games. No chance of that happening.

We have to target 3 wins. Boro should be a banker win.

[Nick110581]

Depends if the players can be arsed and turn up.

Best to keep their heads down and not talk to press.

[Number 7]

Is this current side, with the injuries we have and its mental frailty, capable of winning 4 games in a row? I think it's unlikely so we are praying the head-to-head games between our rivals can somehow results wise work out in our favour. I can see us picking up 2 wins, a draw and a loss. Going to be a big ask now and we can look at Bournemouth and Palace games as the ones where we have shot ourselves in the foot.

It will be galling to miss out now and will stack on top of a series of failings recently which to me point to a club which needs to grow some backbone and belief. Missing out on the league, the FA Cup semi final against Villa, the league cup final against City and the Europa League final. We must as a club break this habitual snatching-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory we are seeing too often now.

In my opinion, I don't think we'll win all 4 games. Out of the 4 teams we have left to play, 3 of them will give us an extremely hard match. I don't think this side has got the mental concentration or defensive aptitude to win all 4 games. And how do I know so? Well, history tells me so. I also think we'll win 2, draw 1 and lose 1. I think we'll beat Watford, and Middlesborough, draw against Southampton and lose to West Ham. Just my opinion. Whether that is enough depends on how results go with the other teams. But I doubt it will be enough. Not saying it can't happen, but it would be a huge surprise to me if we actually won all 4. Bar Lallana, the team that was out yesterday is pretty much what we have for the rest of the season. If anyone seriously believes that Sturridge is going to back from his latest injury to save the day they'll be a fool like I've been a fool believing it for the last 2 years. Besides, looking at the length of his injury layoffs I'd be shocked if he even came back now. I don't believe we'll see him in a Liverpool shirt again.

I said this in the post-match thread, but missing out on a top 4 spot would be a massive disappointment. Especially after sitting in the top 4 for pretty much the entire season. People will brush it off, and if it came to that then eventually we'd all have to, but it would have serious implications on our ability to land top players. We've been stuck in this endless loop where we need CL players to qualify for the CL, and CL calibre players won't come to a club not in the CL. Klopp mentioned the other day that talks have been positive with potential targets, but missing out would have a big say in whether we pulled those targets off.

I don't want to be playing Europa league football on Thursday nights and then PL on Sundays.

[killer-heels]

I said this in the post-match thread, but missing out on a top 4 spot would be a massive disappointment. Especially after sitting in the top 4 for pretty much the entire season. People will brush it off, and if it came to that then eventually we'd all have to, but it would have serious implications on our ability to land top players. We've been stuck in this endless loop where we need CL players to qualify for the CL, and CL calibre players won't come to a club not in the CL. Klopp mentioned the other day that talks have been positive with potential targets, but missing out would have a big say in whether we pulled those targets off.

I don't want to be playing Europa league football on Thursday nights and then PL on Sundays.

Sorry but thats just ridiculous. There is no way we will get the likes of Van Djik and Brandt with no CL football but we can sign very good players even without it. We have signed Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge and Suarez without CL football.

We have signed good players in the last 2 seasons. We just haven't signed as many as we needed to sign.

[rkgriffin]

I would have been trilled with a single point yesterday.  If you offered me 7 points from our last three I would have bit your hand off.  Just no excuse to lose that game after being 1-0 up.  What a kick to the balls, going to be in a down mood until next Monday. 

I just cannot believe our season has come down to making sure we beat a team that has just lost to 10-man Hull.  Sucks the game is on a Monday and we have to watch all the games over the week/weekend.  If Arsenal and United win their two games the pressure will be massive.
 
I am still confident we will beat Watford and hopefully Arsenal and United have at least lost one, maybe two games!

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Sorry but thats just ridiculous. There is no way we will get the likes of Van Djik and Brandt with no CL football but we can sign very good players even without it. We have signed Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge and Suarez without CL football.

We have signed good players in the last 2 seasons. We just haven't signed as many as we needed to sign.

From our transfers, the last couple of years, besides Mane, has anyone really improved our team?

We have already seen that Karius is probably on the same level as Mignolet, Is Wijnaldum an upgrade on Allen? Is Matip an upgrade on Sakho? We sold Benteke and didn't get any striker in return.

[El Lobo]

We're just gonna have to wait and see to be honest.

We might get there with like 6 points from the last four games, or 9 points might not be enough. The good thing is that Arsenal, City and United all have a fair few potentially tough games right up until the end of the season.

[El Lobo]

From our transfers, the last couple of years, besides Mane, has anyone really improved our team?

We have already seen that Karius is probably on the same level as Mignolet, Is Wijnaldum an upgrade on Allen? Is Matip an upgrade on Sakho? We sold Benteke and didn't get any striker in return.

Yes

Yes

[SerbianScouser]

From our transfers, the last couple of years, besides Mane, has anyone really improved our team?

All of Matip, Wijnaldum and Mane massively improved our first XI which is why we have tons of more goals and points this season.

[killer-heels]

From our transfers, the last couple of years, besides Mane, has anyone really improved our team?

We have already seen that Karius is probably on the same level as Mignolet, Is Wijnaldum an upgrade on Allen? Is Matip an upgrade on Sakho? We sold Benteke and didn't get any striker in return.

Milner, Clyne, Matip, Firmino, Wijnaldum and Mane are all good players and have all contributed. We will most likely finish on 70 points even with a collapse which was as much as what Spurs managed in the whole of last season. We could easily finish on 73-75 points and that isn't a sign of a shit team so lets not go overboard and think all the players we have signed are ordinary.

People can bitch and moan about having only 1 or 2 players good enough for some Fantasy 11 but the simple fact of the matter is that the reason we are limping to the finish line is because the manager made a calculated decision to go into the season short at centre back, left back, midfield and attack. That decision may very well come home to roost.

[Nick110581]

Milner, Clyne, Matip, Firmino, Wijnaldum and Mane are all good players and have all contributed. We will most likely finish on 70 points even with a collapse which was as much as what Spurs managed in the whole of last season. We could easily finish on 73-75 points and that isn't a sign of a shit team so lets not go overboard and think all the players we have signed are ordinary.

People can bitch and moan about having only 1 or 2 players good enough for some Fantasy 11 but the simple fact of the matter is that the reason we are limping to the finish line is because the manager made a calculated decision to go into the season short at centre back, left back, midfield and attack. That decision may very well come home to roost.

We should have more points tho whether or not the squad is light.

[Number 7]

Sorry but thats just ridiculous. There is no way we will get the likes of Van Djik and Brandt with no CL football but we can sign very good players even without it. We have signed Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge and Suarez without CL football.

We have signed good players in the last 2 seasons. We just haven't signed as many as we needed to sign.

You've kind of disagreed and then agreed with what I said by naming 2 players we've been linked with and said we have no chance of getting them with no CL.

Suarez was the reason we've been in the CL once in the last 6 seasons and he's gone. In Coutinho's 5 seasons here we've been in the CL once. Sturridge ditto. We've not been in the CL while Firmino and Mane have been here. We've been in the CL twice in the last 7 seasons.

[killer-heels]

You've kind of disagreed and then agreed with what I said by naming 2 players we've been linked with and said we have no chance of getting them with no CL.

Suarez was the reason we've been in the CL once in the last 6 seasons and he's gone. In Coutinho's 5 seasons here we've been in the CL once. Sturridge ditto. We've not been in the CL while Firmino and Mane have been here. We've been in the CL twice in the last 7 seasons.

What I am saying is those players are linked to big sides with CL football so we wont get them. But there is no way the likes of Coutinho, Sturridge, Firmino and Mane can be classed as not good enough because we haven't made CL. We have needed more but they are clearly good enough.

We can sign good players who are not supposedly first choice. Thinking that no CL = no good players is clearly wrong.

[El Lobo]

Can we maybe at least finish outside the top four before we start bemoaning players we cant sign because we missed out on CL....?

We're 3rd.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Can we maybe at least finish outside the top four before we start bemoaning players we cant sign because we missed out on CL....?

We're 3rd.

Having played 2 games more than 4th and 5th and 3 games more than 6th.

[El Lobo]

Having played 2 games more than 4th and 5th and 3 games more than 6th.

Wait let me just check this....

Yep, you're right. We're 3rd.

[Red_Irishman]

United will definitely win at least one of them big away games if you ask me. They have their tails up now.

Reckon we will finish on 73/4. Won't be enough regardless of previous years. That all goes out the window now. We've totally fucked ourselves.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Wait let me just check this....

Yep, you're right. We're 3rd.

Yeah, putting stuff out of context is really a smart thing.

[dudleyred]

United will definitely win at least one of them big away games if you ask me. They have their tails up now.

Reckon we will finish on 73/4. Won't be enough regardless of previous years. That all goes out the window now. We've totally fucked ourselves.

thing is - if they only win one of the big games then they dont catch us

so do you think they'll win two of City, Arsenal and spurs? really? Let alone win all of their others

if they do you have to say well done and they deserve it

we haven't fucked ourselves at all - dont get me wrong we've not helped either but we should still be fine if we do our job. if we dont then we dont deserve it

[peachybum]

United will definitely win at least one of them big away games if you ask me. They have their tails up now.

Reckon we will finish on 73/4. Won't be enough regardless of previous years. That all goes out the window now. We've totally fucked ourselves.

Or given how bad we've been the last two campaigns we've made good progress to even be in this situation even if we're one of the four challengers that have to miss out.

[Caston]

United will definitely win at least one of them big away games if you ask me. They have their tails up now.

Reckon we will finish on 73/4. Won't be enough regardless of previous years. That all goes out the window now. We've totally fucked ourselves.

Chill out.

[God's Left Peg]

United will definitely win at least one of them big away games if you ask me. They have their tails up now.

Reckon we will finish on 73/4. Won't be enough regardless of previous years. That all goes out the window now. We've totally fucked ourselves.

Pissing the bed, shitting the house, etc etc, whatever people say, but I agree with you, sadly.

I think United have the momentum and we're on the ropes staring our demons in the face.

If we could somehow scrape this, it'd be massive.

[El Lobo]

Yeah, putting stuff out of context is really a smart thing.

Sorry Y2J, don't wanna upset you mate.

We're currently 3rd. The teams who are 4th and 5th play each other on Thursday, so either drop 2 points each or one of them drops 3. We're in a strong position, we're 3rd. At worst, before our game we'll be 4 points behind 3rd place and level in 4th. Or 3 points behind 3rd place and 1 behind 4th. It really isn't this disaster people want to make it out to be. There's plenty to happen yet, stop the bedwetting until at least we've done what people wetting the bed expect us to do and miss out on the top 4.

[RMG]

We can still win the league

[dudleyred]

Or given how bad we've been the last two campaigns we've made good progress to even be in this situation even if we're one of the four challengers that have to miss out.

 

[Caston]

Sorry Y2J, don't wanna upset you mate.

We're currently 3rd. The teams who are 4th and 5th play each other on Thursday, so either drop 2 points each or one of them drops 3. We're in a strong position, we're 3rd. At worst, before our game we'll be 4 points behind 3rd place and level in 4th. Or 3 points behind 3rd place and 1 behind 4th. It really isn't this disaster people want to make it out to be. There's plenty to happen yet, stop the bedwetting until at least we've done what people wetting the bed expect us to do and miss out on the top 4.

Spot on mate!

[dudleyred]

would it be controversial to say from a fans point of view i'm generally not arsed if we are in the champions league anyway?!

i understand the benefits etc but i for one got bored of Real, Barca each year and loved playing different sides and seeing their fans in the Europa League

i get the club might make better signings if we're in the CL but we certainly dont need the CL money given the TV deal.

I want CL this year dont get me wrong but its not the be all and end all

edit - you will see from posts above i think we'll get in so this isn't lowering my expectations!

[Crosby Nick]

Bed wetting is a harsh term to throw about some of the time.

However, to stretch the metaphor, I was firmly in the optimist camp (and therefore a superfan!). I haven't wet the bed but I have woken up in the night needing a piss and I can't be arsed getting up as I've been here for ages and it's really comfy. Hoping I can ignore it and hold out til the alarm goes off.

[Red_Irishman]

Chill out.

Hard not to be frustrated mate. I know we've made progress but we're very close and yesterday was hard to take.

so do you think they'll win two of City, Arsenal and spurs? really? Let alone win all of their others

if they do you have to say well done and they deserve it

we haven't fucked ourselves at all - dont get me wrong we've not helped either but we should still be fine if we do our job. if we dont then we dont deserve it

Look, this is an endless circle trying to predict these things but I just think they will win one of them. As previously stated they haven't been beaten in ages. I have them finishing on 75/6. Losing one, drawing one and winning one of their big away games and beating the rest.

I actually think we have fucked ourselves to be honest. Yesterday was unforgivable at this stage in the season. We may still make it but my god we have made a meal of it so far.

Won our last 4 and I believe we'll make it but I genuinely don't trust us to do that given the state of the squad.

[El Lobo]

Bed wetting is a harsh term to throw about some of the time.

However, to stretch the metaphor, I was firmly in the optimist camp (and therefore a superfan!). I haven't wet the bed but I have woken up in the night needing a piss and I can't be arsed getting up as I've been here for ages and it's really comfy. Hoping I can ignore it and hold out til the alarm goes off.

Your bedwetting is more to do with age mate

[killer-heels]

would it be controversial to say from a fans point of view i'm generally not arsed if we are in the champions league anyway?!

i understand the benefits etc but i for one got bored of Real, Barca each year and loved playing different sides and seeing their fans in the Europa League

i get the club might make better signings if we're in the CL but we certainly dont need the CL money given the TV deal.

I want CL this year dont get me wrong but its not the be all and end all

edit - you will see from posts above i think we'll get in so this isn't lowering my expectations!

Yes, I am not that arsed about it either. Next season all I am concerned about is winning the league. The CL is great, the nights are great and trophies are great. But whether we come 5th, 4th or 3rd, my belief and expectation in challenging for the league wont change.

[dudleyred]

Hard not to be frustrated mate. I know we've made progress but we're very close and yesterday was hard to take.


Look, this is an endless circle trying to predict these things but I just think they will win one of them. As previously stated they haven't been beaten in ages. I have them finishing on 75/6. Losing one, drawing one and winning one of their big away games and beating the rest.

I actually think we have fucked ourselves to be honest. Yesterday was unforgivable at this stage in the season. We may still make it but my god we have made a meal of it so far.

Won our last 4 and I believe we'll make it but I genuinely don't trust us to do that given the state of the squad.

thats fair enough and we're all sat here guessing to pass the time   

what i would say we win three out of 4 we're on 75 which given our GD will do it - they'll have to go some to get more than 75

if they do and they get top 4 we've dropped more than 3 points anyway

[dudleyred]

Yes, I am not that arsed about it either. Next season all I am concerned about is winning the league. The CL is great, the nights are great and trophies are great. But whether we come 5th, 4th or 3rd, my belief and expectation in challenging for the league wont change.

tell you one benefit if we miss out - £40 in the pocket every group game

prices for CL were £70 odd weren't they last time around?!

much prefer the Europa prices thats for sure

[RMG]

I like when we are competing and winning trophies, this top 4 "trophy" I find hard to get really motivated for. I know we need it and I hope we get it but going into January we were in a title race, fa cup and league cup semi final and now it's just this.

Hopefully next season we will win silverware because it's nice to win the silverware.

[Caston]

Hard not to be frustrated mate. I know we've made progress but we're very close and yesterday was hard to take.

Agreed, but it's far from over yet.

Also you can't forget how many games United have left this season, they will literally be playing every 3-4 days. They have a big squad, but they won't be able to play their best team in all of them.

[SerbianScouser]

would it be controversial to say from a fans point of view i'm generally not arsed if we are in the champions league anyway?!

I think it's brutally important for us to make it. When as a coach you're pushing the players to have triple sessions in the pre-season, to have most distance covered in the league, to make most sprints in the league if there's nothing to show for it at the end you run risk of losing a bit of chemistry with your team because it would be difficult to make them buy into your methods again with the same verve.

For that reason I think making it to CL would be hugely beneficial for the development of this team and their belief in our manager. It would almost be a guarantee for our team spirit to stay the same and for everything around the club to continue to go swimmingly.

[Kop307]

Hard not to be frustrated mate. I know we've made progress but we're very close and yesterday was hard to take.


Look, this is an endless circle trying to predict these things but I just think they will win one of them. As previously stated they haven't been beaten in ages. I have them finishing on 75/6. Losing one, drawing one and winning one of their big away games and beating the rest.

I actually think we have fucked ourselves to be honest. Yesterday was unforgivable at this stage in the season. We may still make it but my god we have made a meal of it so far.

Won our last 4 and I believe we'll make it but I genuinely don't trust us to do that given the state of the squad.

If we don't make the top 4 this season i'll have a really fucking hard time motivating myself to do a 200 mile round trip to every home game next season. I'll still do it like becuase it gets me out the house, but I'm a miserable c*nt as it is, let alone when I'm expecting failure before the season even starts. When your team win you'd like to think you're working towards something, and earlier this season when we were winning it felt as though we were looking at a title challenge. For that to then turn into a top 4 finish would be ok. Now, we've managed to fuck up to a point where we're in a neck and neck battle going down the final stretch it's just so fustrating. January 2nd we were 2nd, 5 points behind Chelsea.

If we miss out on the top 4, I think I'll be at the point where winning in September - January will just feel joyless to me now. Because I'll just fear they'll fucking throw it all away. That's the DNA of this team. Get into a good situation, and then fuck it all up. Last season in the Europa final. The League final against City. 13/14 at home to Chelsea. 14/15 at home to United. The league cup semi final this season against Southampton. This season we could look back at Palace who knows, but it makes getting enthusiastic so fucking hard when the chances are it'll all be a waste of time come May. I'll never forget the line in the media when we lost to United in 14/15 "just as the door to the champions league opened, Liverpool slammed the door shut on themselves".

If we don't make the top 4 this season I'd like to see massive changes in the summer. This continual failure on all levels cannot continue.

I'll reserve utter meltdown until the season finishes because I still have hope we can do it, but I think we'll need United to fuck up, because for the life of me, I just can't see us getting 4 wins. I think we'll struggle to get 3.

Sorry for being negative. Again. I'm just on me arse.

[killer-heels]

I think it's brutally important for us to make it. When as a coach you're pushing the players to have triple sessions in the pre-season, to have most distance covered in the league, to make most sprints in the league if there's nothing to show for it at the end you run risk of losing a bit of chemistry with your team because it would be difficult to make them buy into your methods again with the same verve.

For that reason I think making it to CL would be hugely beneficial for the development of this team and their belief in our manager. It would almost be a guarantee for our team spirit to stay the same and for everything around the club to continue to go swimmingly.

The players will have clocked over 70 points and battered the best teams in the league. That should show them that these methods do work.

Plus you should have new signings. I am sure the players would lose motivation if told we are going into the season with the same amount of players but with new signings players can get a huge boost.

[Iska]

I think it's brutally important for us to make it. When as a coach you're pushing the players to have triple sessions in the pre-season, to have most distance covered in the league, to make most sprints in the league if there's nothing to show for it at the end you run risk of losing a bit of chemistry with your team because it would be difficult to make them buy into your methods again with the same verve.

For that reason I think making it to CL would be hugely beneficial for the development of this team and their belief in our manager. It would almost be a guarantee for our team spirit to stay the same and for everything around the club to continue to go swimmingly.

Yes, and also so we can get the best players to sign for us for CL football (before holding them back for the league).

[RyanBabel19]

Getting top 4 is huge

- Attract better players
- Aim to win the trophy
- Fantastic for the morale of the team
- More chance of keeping your best players
- Financially
- Has an affect on opposition sides and how the above affects them

And more

Obviously it doesn't always but it can propel you on to huge things and it cant just be viewed as making it into the competition one year. If getting CL enables us to attract and buy better players, allows us to spend a little more to get them because of the extra income, allows us to retain our best players, gives them another huge target for the season in the shape of a prestigious trophy to go out to win all while potentially gaining an advantage over your opposition then surely that is huge