Topic: Squad depth and rotation

[Chris~]

To be fair, it used to just be a midweek round of friendlies unless it was a World Cup year. Now teams are off playing 3 games and away for 2 weeks.

My main concern with Fabinho is Brazil will rush him back next month. Especially if we risk him against City.

After his massive total of 0 minutes in the last International break?

[wah00ey]

Not seen this anywhere - Hendo went off and there was a suggestion of injury but I reckon this was to wrap him in cotton wool for imminent Central Defending requirements...

[Nick110581]

To be fair, it used to just be a midweek round of friendlies unless it was a World Cup year. Now teams are off playing 3 games and away for 2 weeks.

My main concern with Fabinho is Brazil will rush him back next month. Especially if we risk him against City.

He won’t be ready for City if he’s done his hamstring.

You hope that Matip is fit for Saturday and can play alongside Joe. Arguably they would both need resting for City.

[Welshred]

To be fair, it used to just be a midweek round of friendlies unless it was a World Cup year. Now teams are off playing 3 games and away for 2 weeks.

My main concern with Fabinho is Brazil will rush him back next month. Especially if we risk him against City.

In my whole life it's never just been a midweek round of friendlies and I'm 34. November is usually the time the play offs for the Euros happen, or as you say World Cup qualifiers, with other teams fitting in friendlies instead, all I've ever remembered is 2 rounds of fixtures in the yearly November international break so it baffles me why people are surprised there's another one around the corner.

September, October, November, March, May/June (depending on when the season ends) are the international months every single season!

[Welshred]

Not seen this anywhere - Hendo went off and there was a suggestion of injury but I reckon this was to wrap him in cotton wool for imminent Central Defending requirements...

Klopp said the plan was always to play him 45 minutes

[dutchkop]

Not seen this anywhere - Hendo went off and there was a suggestion of injury but I reckon this was to wrap him in cotton wool for imminent Central Defending requirements...

ON a few of the  LFC fan blogs  today  (EOTK, Boot room, AnfieldWatch- they say Klopp says HEndo not injured & that it  was always planned to play Hendo & Gini for 45 mins each.

[Welshred]

ON a few of the  LFC fan blogs  today  (EOTK, Boot room, AnfieldWatch- they say Klopp says HEndo not injured & that it  was always planned to play Hendo & Gini for 45 mins each.

Klopp said it directly in his post-match press conference


Also, Anfield Watch has links to The S*n, bin that off sharpish!

[dutchkop]

In my whole life it's never just been a midweek round of friendlies and I'm 34. November is usually the time the play offs for the Euros happen, or as you say World Cup qualifiers, with other teams fitting in friendlies instead, all I've ever remembered is 2 rounds of fixtures in the yearly November international break so it baffles me why people are surprised there's another one around the corner.

September, October, November, March, May/June (depending on when the season ends) are the international months every single season!

I think, local FA's, FIFA& UEFA are not being responsible during a pandemic to insist that friendlies are played and that players are flying around the world at  the worst time. We had Keita, Thiago and a scare around Shaqiri wrt Covid. And now with this condensed season & chances for more injuries,  the Nations cup Friendlies should be abolished till after the summer and a widely accepted vaccine and not that we have record number of cases and hospitalisations.

Plus most teams have huge injuries. I see England have added another friendly so they planned to play 3 matches in 12 days ;-0 1 friendly & 2 glorified friendly  - JOKE!!

match vs NZ was cancelled so England  FA rescheduled a match vs Ireland.

Thursday 12th November  INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLIES
England 20:00 Republic of Ireland
England 20:00  New Zealand   Match cancelled


Sunday 15th November
UEFA NATIONS LEAGUE  GROUP A2
Belgium 19:45  England

Wednesday 18th November  UEFA NATIONS LEAGUE  GROUP A2
England  19:45  Iceland

[Welshred]

I think, local FA's, FIFA& UEFA are not being responsible during a pandemic to insist that friendlies are played and that players are flying around the world at  the worst time. We had Keita, Thiago and a scare around Shaqiri - with this condensed season. the Nations cup (Friendlies should be abolished till after the summer and a widely accepted vaccine and not that we have record number of cases and hospitalisations) .

Plus most teams have huge injuries. I see ENgland have added another friendly so they planned to play 3 matches in 12 days ;-0 1 friendly & 2 glorified friendly  - JOKE!!

Except they're picking bigger squads and no player is playing more than the 2 games they'd usually play. Anyway, whatever your thoughts on it this year (yeah, 3 games is far too much) it's still baffling that every year there's people saying "how the fuck is there another international break already?!" when they are set at the same time every year.

[wah00ey]

Klopp said it directly in his post-match press conference


Also, Anfield Watch has links to The S*n, bin that off sharpish!

Fairy Snuff.  I expect at this rate he'll have to play at CB at some stage - he's done it before.

It's that or wheel out Jurgen :-)

[dutchkop]

Except they're picking bigger squads and no player is playing more than the 2 games they'd usually play. Anyway, whatever your thoughts on it this year (yeah, 3 games is far too much) it's still baffling that every year there's people saying "how the fuck is there another international break already?!" when they are set at the same time every year.

We know about the international friendlies. This is about public safety. The clubs are doing their best to limit impact but basically playing  , training and sometimes living in a secure quarantine like bubble to prevent the spread of covid.  But FIFA, UEFA & Other football countries - the politicians & medical advisors need to stop this folly. The Map says it all - most of Europe is a code red at the moment

for me while everyone is trying to stop the spread of Corona - most of Europe is having record numbers - it is a no brainer to cancel/postpone an European based football matches and also European based International players playing in South America. If FIFA wants the South American qualifiers to go ahead - then without European players. this is a medical pandemic that is life threatening and people may not recover the full use of their lungs, heart and other organs.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/28/covid-world-map-which-countries-have-the-most-coronavirus-cases-and-deaths 

[dutchkop]

I do think we need to get used to messy, inconsistent  game performances with all the rotation. It is also a way to keep everyone match fit.

 I think our Hendo, Milner and Shaq midfield was one of our weakest  midfields this season
 & not having Fabinho ir Thiago in there was always going  to be difficult.  Although we scraped through while not playing our best - only 2 shots on target for the whole match. Still I think 2 out of 2 is a good result. We maybe papering over the cracks - let us see how we do West Ham , Atalanta & City matches?

[Welshred]

Snip 

Which has absolutely nothing to do with my original post

[Knight]

this is a medical pandemic that is life threatening and people may not recover the full use of their lungs, heart and other organs.

I'm not sure this hyperbole really helps. Statistically it's life threatening for a tiny % of people. Probably a slightly higher % of people than flu is life threatening for.

[dutchkop]

I'm not sure this hyperbole really helps. Statistically it's life threatening for a tiny % of people. Probably a slightly higher % of people than flu is life threatening for.

maybe could be life threatening is better  =--- but data says it is 3/4 times more lives taken  than the flu & the true numbers will never be known. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/08/covid-deaths-34-times-higher-than-flu-and-pneumonia-ons-data

43M have had it and over 1,58M have died and most economies and countries are semi locked down to restrict it.  I think European Nations "friendly" cup should be postponed.   It is the right, medical, political and social thing to do

[Paul1611]

I think, local FA's, FIFA& UEFA are not being responsible during a pandemic to insist that friendlies are played and that players are flying around the world at  the worst time. We had Keita, Thiago and a scare around Shaqiri wrt Covid. And now with this condensed season & chances for more injuries,  the Nations cup Friendlies should be abolished till after the summer and a widely accepted vaccine and not that we have record number of cases and hospitalisations.

Plus most teams have huge injuries. I see England have added another friendly so they planned to play 3 matches in 12 days ;-0 1 friendly & 2 glorified friendly  - JOKE!!

match vs NZ was cancelled so England  FA rescheduled a match vs Ireland.

Thursday 12th November  INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLIES
England 20:00 Republic of Ireland
England 20:00  New Zealand   Match cancelled


Sunday 15th November
UEFA NATIONS LEAGUE  GROUP A2
Belgium 19:45  England

Wednesday 18th November  UEFA NATIONS LEAGUE  GROUP A2
England  19:45  Iceland

You can bet your life on Hendo being used in all three and coming back with a knock.

[Welshred]

You can bet your life on Hendo being used in all three and coming back with a knock.

Like he did for October games?

[So… Howard Philips]

Like he did for October games?

Don't let facts get in the way of melodrama.

[Ipcress]

I'm not sure this hyperbole really helps. Statistically it's life threatening for a tiny % of people. Probably a slightly higher % of people than flu is life threatening for.

You really should check your facts before you spread false information that could lead to a casualness that will probably lead to illness and death.

From the link below less than 1 person in 1000 who contract flu die from it. With Covid 19 it's about 1 person in 40 who die.

You've had since March to spend 5 mins looking it up on google and you haven't bothered, but still want to spread your 'wisdom'?

Source: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

We'd be able to share the burden better if the usual suspects weren't injured.

Injuries and knocks are part of the game, but we have a handful that get more than their share. Matip, Keita and Ox. I just hope they are back soon and stay fit because this season with all the games and freak events like the VVd injury, we need everyone making a contribution.

Same goes for Shaqiri - but at least he is available at the moment.

[PoetryInMotion]

You really should check your facts before you spread false information that could lead to a casualness that will probably lead to illness and death.

From the link below less than 1 person in 1000 who contract flu die from it. With Covid 19 it's about 1 person in 40 who die.

You've had since March to spend 5 mins looking it up on google and you haven't bothered, but still want to spread your 'wisdom'?

Source: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

He gets his opinions from BabuYagu.

[Vote For Pedro]

He gets his opinions from BabuYagu.

Or Murdoch's various media outlets and idiot celebrities judging from the nonsense posted above.

[Mighty_Red]

Ironically, our problems in the last month have been the injuries in midfield, despite it being the one area we are well stacked in.

Losing 3 players in Keita, Ox and Thiago has hurt us the most, meaning Hendo is struggling through games and we've shoehorned Jota into the side (though he has done ok).

With VVD out, it's just made it worse.

Obviously we need to try and help those that keep getting niggly injuries like Matip and Naby. We have such a good fitness setup these days that it's likely we have tried different options to help them stay fit but it may be that we have to accept that their issues won't go away and plan accordingly.

[Fromola]

Ironically, our problems in the last month have been the injuries in midfield, despite it being the one area we are well stacked in.

Losing 3 players in Keita, Ox and Thiago has hurt us the most, meaning Hendo is struggling through games and we've shoehorned Jota into the side (though he has done ok).

With VVD out, it's just made it worse.

Obviously we need to try and help those that keep getting niggly injuries like Matip and Naby. We have such a good fitness setup these days that it's likely we have tried different options to help them stay fit but it may be that we have to accept that their issues won't go away and plan accordingly.

We've needed Fabinho in midfield and we've ended up needing him more at centre back and now he's unavailable for both.

It makes him more susceptible to injuries because we can't afford to leave him out the side. We've just played 3 games in 6 days and it was the defence who started all 3.

When you're playing every 3 days and with travel involved muscle injuries are going to be inevitable if you've got players starting all 3 and then when you end up with a bunch of injuries then you can't afford to rotate. That's when you tend to get an injury crisis. Fab would have probably sat out Tuesday or Sheff United if we had other players available.

[killer-heels]

Robertson’s minutes are going to need managing. Tsimikas is not back and thats probably three more games Robertson has to play and then he will start the internationals.

[Knight]

You really should check your facts before you spread false information that could lead to a casualness that will probably lead to illness and death.

From the link below less than 1 person in 1000 who contract flu die from it. With Covid 19 it's about 1 person in 40 who die.

You've had since March to spend 5 mins looking it up on google and you haven't bothered, but still want to spread your 'wisdom'?

Source: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

Ok you may want to be a little more gracious before posting in future. The below would be contested by some (as in Imperial are estimating too high) but it's certainly lower than your 1 in 40 estimate. Thanks for doing the work for me by the way on the basis of confirmed deaths and confirmed cases. You may want to have considered the fact that that isn't the way to work out the mortality rate mind.

Read this, https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/207273/covid-19-deaths-infection-fatality-ratio-about/


At some age groups COVID is actually safer than flu, how about that!

[Knight]

He gets his opinions from BabuYagu.

About midfielders PoetryInMotion !

[HardworkDedication]

Honestly, at what point do we start to question our medical department. The number of muscle injuries we seem to be getting is taking the biscuit and I don't see other clubs suffering to the extent we have. Massey has been a big loss and iirc he had a reputation for reducing the number of injures at our club

[Fromola]

Honestly, at what point do we start to question our medical department. The number of muscle injuries we seem to be getting is taking the biscuit and I don't see other clubs suffering to the extent we have. Massey has been a big loss and iirc he had a reputation for reducing the number of injures at our club

It's unacceptable. Doesn't seem Massey has been adequately replaced.

Moving training grounds mid-season an added risk as well.

James Pearce writing long fawning pieces in the Athletic last season about how great our medical department was and Massey etc and next thing he's headhunted.

[jillcwhomever]

It's unacceptable. Doesn't seem Massey has been adequately replaced.

Moving training grounds mid-season an added risk as well.

James Pearce writing long fawning pieces in the Athletic about how great our medical department was and Massey etc and next thing he's headhunted.

You don't know that its down to the medical team. There could be a number of reasons why its affecting us so badly.

[Chris~]

Moving training grounds hasn't helped? I'm assuming there is research in to this? Or your extensive knowledge of Football medics means you know they weren't adequately replaced? Vvd and Thaigo injured in hatchet jobs, Gomez not even here. Ox, Henderson and Shaqiri had injury issues previously as well

[Fromola]

You don't know that its down to the medical team. There could be a number of reasons why its affecting us so badly.

It's a perfect storm. Everton thugs and international schedule has fucked us massively. Then as i've conceded myself when you have injuries you can't rotate you end up with more injuries and that's where you can get more of an injury crisis.

I've been on the side of us just being very unlucky. But now another muscle injury in training for the goalkeeper.

[Asam]

It's unacceptable. Doesn't seem Massey has been adequately replaced.

Moving training grounds mid-season an added risk as well.

James Pearce writing long fawning pieces in the Athletic last season about how great our medical department was and Massey etc and next thing he's headhunted.

The injuries relates to the depth of the squad, the quality we have to come in and the frequency of the games, you also have to factor in Covid/international football which has added more strain to the squad, it’s not solely an issue for the medical team

[rawcusk8]

People blaming the club for the injury crisis really need their heads checked. Some were assaulted during the game, others we injured on International duty and then you have some that have fallen victim to the hectic schedule and the dumbass 3 sub rule. But, let’s ignore that shall we? Let’s blame Klopp for pushing the players too far, they arent robots damnit. Also, we never replaced Massey, the new guy is no more qualified than Dr.Pepper or Dr.Dre. I think leaving Melwood was a big mistake, do you guys know that it cursed us as we left and now we’re dropping like flies. Oh and let’s not forget that bogus virus that’s going around, players are faking it just to get away from Klopps demanding training sessions.

[harleydanger]

Interesting question is which team is better, Liverpool fit XI vs Liverpool injured XI?

Kelleher
Williams Fab Matip Robertson
Henderson Gini Jones
Salah Jota Mane

Vs

Alison
Trent VVD Gomez Tsimikas
NabyLad Thiago Milner
Elliot Shaq Ox

[mrantarctica]

Interesting question is which team is better, Liverpool fit XI vs Liverpool injured XI?

Kelleher
Williams Fab Matip Robertson
Henderson Gini Jones
Salah Jota Mane

Vs

Alison
Trent VVD Gomez Tsimikas
NabyLad Thiago Milner
Elliot Shaq Ox

If the injured XI players could play, then some of them would be in the fit XI wouldn't they ? 

[mrantarctica]

Honestly, at what point do we start to question our medical department. The number of muscle injuries we seem to be getting is taking the biscuit and I don't see other clubs suffering to the extent we have. Massey has been a big loss and iirc he had a reputation for reducing the number of injures at our club

This has very little to do with the medical department. When players get injured, they play their role in advising on the speediest track to as complete a recovery as possible.

With regard to the prevention of injuries, at the end of the day the medical staff will assess players to see if they have any injuries or knocks that preclude training and game selection. Without a doubt they would have asked for greater rest between games, but they also have to work with the circumstances that we have been dealt which is that the players only get 3-4 days rest between games if they are lucky.

It's not like a computer game where if you hire a staff member with 96 skill, then you can reduce injuries by 10% Medical matters are far more complicated and nuanced than that.

[dutchkop]

Does anyone see the CL dead rubber as chance to flex our squad and build more depth and rotation options:

we should look at the positives and we can still put out a half decent Liverpool team: offer kids and squad players a chance to prove themselves.
 Jones, N Williams, R Williams, squad players - Minamino, Origi, Tsimikas, Kelleher.
What about the other kids Jaros, Cain,Clarkson - do they get a chance for this match?

Are there others close to team match fitness  and need a 45 min or 30 min run out then they get a bench role. E.g. Trent - Ox?
Bobby may need some more match rhythm - so do we start him? 

Any others that deserve a chance ?

[harryc]

Just been so unlucky with injuries esp when you look at the likes of Keita and Shaq who seem to be constantly injured even without playing.

[Fromola]

Does anyone see the CL dead rubber as chance to flex our squad and build more depth and rotation options:

we should look at the positives and we can still put out a half decent Liverpool team: offer kids and squad players a chance to prove themselves.
 Jones, N Williams, R Williams, squad players - Minamino, Origi, Tsimikas, Kelleher.
What about the other kids Jaros, Cain,Clarkson - do they get a chance for this match?

Are there others close to team match fitness  and need a 45 min or 30 min run out then they get a bench role. E.g. Trent - Ox?
Bobby may need some more match rhythm - so do we start him? 

Any others that deserve a chance ?

First things first, most or all of the 11-14 involved on Sunday should be left off the plane if possible and at the least won't be starting the game.

Exception perhaps if Tsimikas starts on Sunday we might want to give him another run out. Same with Kelleher but it'd be a good opportunity for Jaros or play Adrian.

Minamino and Origi will start i'd imagine and perhaps a youngster like Miller or Clarkson up front. Shaq or Keita to get minutes possibly if returning, maybe even Trent for 20-30 minutes off the bench or a half.

Cain and Clarkson will probably play.