Topic: Squad depth and rotation

[Chivasino]

#Kloppout is actually trending in the UK. Absolute fuckin' mega weapons have started supporting us in the last few years. 

And it's probably just as many supporters of other clubs getting in on it, maybe more. Best swerving any journalist/paper that actually runs with this as a story.

[Sharado]

The point is that season after season we go in to seasons taking a huge gamble over areas of the squad. Just because we got it away with it in previous seasons doesn't mean it was going to carry on working. In fact the more you gamble the greater the risk of it coming back to bite you.

Klopp has built this side for peanuts in terms of net spend and it shouldn't be a case of losing a centre back and Hoever to bring in Thiago.

I don't disagree that a CB in the summer would have been nice/of value etc etc given the loss of Lovren and Hoever. But for me that's almost a separate discussion again to the fact that a CB now is essential. I can't really fault what we did in the summer and won't pick holes in FSG for that, but the moment Gomez did his knee on England duty we should have been moving heaven and earth to bring a CB in on January 1. To not have done so was stupid, to fail to do it in the next week is insane.

[rushyman]

Can’t even get in the ground to show them we’re behind them

All there is possible social media

Klopp out trending. Cool.

[J_Kopite]

And it's probably just as many supporters of other clubs getting in on it, maybe more. Best swerving any journalist/paper that actually runs with this as a story.

Its actually mad someone thought it was worth posting about on here. And then loads of others thought it was worth replying to...

Social media is actually BECOMING the news now, rather than reporting or reflecting it - I thought this place was better but I'm wondering more and more now. People just don't think critically at all when it comes to stuff like this.

[Eeyore]

I don't disagree that a CB in the summer would have been nice/of value etc etc given the loss of Lovren and Hoever. But for me that's almost a separate discussion again to the fact that a CB now is essential. I can't really fault what we did in the summer and won't pick holes in FSG for that, but the moment Gomez did his knee on England duty we should have been moving heaven and earth to bring a CB in on January 1. To not have done so was stupid, to fail to do it in the next week is insane.

Yeh agree with that.

[rushyman]

Its actually mad someone thought it was worth posting about on here. And then loads of others thought it was worth replying to...

Social media is actually BECOMING the news now, rather than reporting or reflecting it - I thought this place was better but I'm wondering more and more now. People just don't think critically at all when it comes to stuff like this.

Exactly why it’s pissing off

Social media isn’t becoming the news. That was 5 years ago

It is the new now And it’s mad people are trying to pass it off solely as other fans. I’ve seen enough in this thread alone to know it isn’t just infiltrators

[J_Kopite]

Exactly why it’s pissing off

Social media isn’t becoming the news. That was 5 years ago

It is the new now And it’s mad people are trying to pass it off solely as other fans. I’ve seen enough in this thread alone to know it isn’t just infiltrators

Dunno why you're so angry, my point was that it isn't news and it isn't important. Partly because it will mostly be rival fans behind it, but also because social media has given everyone a voice and amplifies views no one would usually take seriously. RAWKites should be better and understand this.

EDIT - Who remembers that well-followed and prolific "Klopp Out" Twitter account that mysteriously disappeared around the time we won the Champions League? If anyone here believed that was a Liverpool fan (at any point of its lifespan) then I have some magic beans you may be interested in.

[mikeb58]

Unless I've missed it, I've not seen a single hint on here that Klopp should go.

[rushyman]

Dunno why you're so angry, my point was that it isn't news and it isn't important. Partly because it will mostly be rival fans behind it, but also because social media has given everyone a voice and amplifies views no one would usually take seriously.

That’s why

Klopp and the players need to hear support.

Mostly angry because yesterday was clearly the best we’ve been in a while and it still wasn’t good enough because there wasn’t a win to go with it. Like we’re going to play united every week with Williams at the back

[rushyman]

Unless I've missed it, I've not seen a single hint on here that Klopp should go.

Cos it wouldn’t be tolerated

That’s for other sites

[J_Kopite]

That’s why

Klopp and the players need to hear support.

Mostly angry because yesterday was clearly the best we’ve been in a while and it still wasn’t good enough because there wasn’t a win to go with it. Like we’re going to play united every week with Williams at the back

And posting the fact that "Klopp Out" was trending on Twitter to the largest Liverpool message board has amplified this "story". Now its become a two-page discussion on here when it should have been ignored.

[Eeyore]

Exactly why it’s pissing off

Social media isn’t becoming the news. That was 5 years ago

It is the new now And it’s mad people are trying to pass it off solely as other fans. I’ve seen enough in this thread alone to know it isn’t just infiltrators

Cos it wouldn’t be tolerated

That’s for other sites

Make your mind up mate. Either you have seen it on here or you haven't.

[mikeb58]

Cos it wouldn’t be tolerated

That’s for other sites

I thought you suggested 'people on here' wanted him out?

[rushyman]

Make your mind up mate. Either you have seen it on here or you haven't.

As In ive seen the types in here that will be saying it on Twitter

Nowhere did I say I’d genuinely seen it in here.

It’s pretty bad here I can only fucking imagine what it’s like on other places that are rancid

[rushyman]

I thought you suggested 'people on here' wanted him out?

As above

[rushyman]

And posting the fact that "Klopp Out" was trending on Twitter to the largest Liverpool message board has amplified this "story". Now its become a two-page discussion on here when it should have been ignored.

Fair comment

But that wasn’t me

[Eeyore]

All I have seen in general is Klopp to be backed in the market to bring in the extra defender he wants.

[rushyman]

All I have seen in general is Klopp to be backed in the market to bring in the extra defender he wants.

Yeah. Everyone’s been really positive in here.

I dunno how many times you need me to say it’s not in here that anyone would get at Klopp but I have a fair suspicion of the types that would go further when away from rawk

Just go into the jota and Klopp threads

[BJ]

I think it’s deconstruct generational

People are under pressure from their mates with their brain free banter

Im 44 my mates are ok give me a bit of ribbing. One is a c*nt, no getting away from it. But others and social media where younger people are is brutal. The hate in football now is toxic.

They need it to end. Id say stay off social media but that isn’t going to happen , so we on here get the toy throwing they can’t show their rival ‘mates’

Some people use the forum to vent.  A lot of it has to do with how long your tether is, some reach the end of theirs a lot quicker than others.  You’re right about the toxicity btw.

[rushyman]

Some people use the forum to vent.  A lot of it has to do with how long your tether is, some reach the end of theirs a lot quicker than others.  You’re right about the toxicity btw.

Completely agree, but at the same time it’s misused

For example that Burnley game I was clawing my eyes out with frustration. I came in here afterwards livid, I’ve done the same for a few comments

But after yesterday’s game and performance. I’m just not having it

It was far better and what we want to see. Could do with a cb but we’ll be fine playing that way

[Kennys from heaven]

That’s why

Klopp and the players need to hear support.

Mostly angry because yesterday was clearly the best we’ve been in a while and it still wasn’t good enough because there wasn’t a win to go with it. Like we’re going to play united every week with Williams at the back

The way I see it, is even in the "slump" that we're in, it's been our mistakes that have lost us points and not that we are completely inferior to the sides taking them from us.

We've created more chances/had more shots, had more possession, etc and (Villa aside) actually not conceded that many - just not scored on the same level as we have been used to and where the results have been lacking, show us up to be something that we're not. All is not great as this will end up playing on the lads and Jurgen's mind, but you're spot on Rushy lad: Support is totally what is needed right now.

You could easily argue that the football we're playing is not great to watch - because it isn't - but we're far from being a totally clueless side - we're just in a run of form that we've not seen for quite a while because we've re-written record books lately and been completely spoiled, but that is also part of the issue.

[El Lobo]

Yeah. Everyone’s been really positive in here.

I dunno how many times you need me to say it’s not in here that anyone would get at Klopp but I have a fair suspicion of the types that would go further when away from rawk

Just go into the jota and Klopp threads

Yep.

Not to blow smoke up anyones arse, but I'm pretty sure RAWK is the most popular Liverpool forum (by far?) and its not a particularly big leap to think that the general mood here is likely to magnify into other Liverpool supporters. Its no-ones responsibility to stifle any proper debate or conversation but its not good at all when its particularly toxic, and it has been the last few weeks.

[BJ]

The way I see it, is even in the "slump" that we're in, it's been our mistakes that have lost us points and not that we are completely inferior to the sides taking them from us.

We've created more chances/had more shots, had more possession, etc and (Villa aside) actually not conceded that many - just not scored on the same level as we have been used to and where the results have been lacking, show us up to be something that we're not. All is not great as this will end up playing on the lads and Jurgen's mind, but you're spot on Rushy lad: Support is totally what is needed right now.

You could easily argue that the football we're playing is not great to watch - because it isn't - but we're far from being a totally clueless side - we're just in a run of form that we've not seen for quite a while because we've re-written record books lately and been completely spoiled, but that is also part of the issue.

Not scoring is what has lost  us points.  Keep scoring and it almost doesn’t matter how many mistakes you make.  Some teams are missing the supporters more than others and we are one of them.  Using Shankly’s Holy Trinity of manger/team/fans, you can’t take one of those out and expect the same performances.  I know lack of fans in grounds is the same for everyone but for us the fans in the ground is the epitome of 12th man. 

[Suareznumber7]

The point is that season after season we go in to seasons taking a huge gamble over areas of the squad.

Let's be clear about one thing.  They are huge gambles in your opinion.  Not necessarily Klopp's or Edward's opinions. 

[Sharado]

Let's be clear about one thing.  They are huge gambles in your opinion.  Not necessarily Klopp's or Edward's opinions.

Klopp has literally said he wants a CB this window. Edwards/FSG/whoever not providing one is taking a gamble with the remainder of this season and quite possibly the next.

[Suareznumber7]

Klopp has literally said he wants a CB this window. Edwards/FSG/whoever not providing one is taking a gamble with the remainder of this season and quite possibly the next.

the original post wasn't about this window. 

[Jookie]

The point is that season after season we go in to seasons taking a huge gamble over areas of the squad. Just because we got it away with it in previous seasons doesn't mean it was going to carry on working. In fact the more you gamble the greater the risk of it coming back to bite you.

Klopp has built this side for peanuts in terms of net spend and it shouldn't be a case of losing a centre back and Hoever to bring in Thiago.

Every team takes gambles with their squad depth in certain positions. It's the nature of finances, balancing squad harmony and the rules over registration of squads.

It's been said many times before that Klopp likes to work with a smaller squad and have players with versatility to play numerous positions if required. This season is obviously different given the compact nature. Those same factors that meant a compact season also mean selling players in the last 2 windows to either make space in the squad or create funds is much harder than usual.

We need a CB now due to the unusual circumstances (i.e. 2 long term injuries) and the gamble we took in the summer (one I suspect Klopp was part of the decision making team on).I think the owners/recruitment team can be criticised for the lack of CB in this window given Klopp obviously wants one. But that's a separate argument than the narrative of a chronic lack of investment that you are suggesting

[Eeyore]

Let's be clear about one thing.  They are huge gambles in your opinion.  Not necessarily Klopp's or Edward's opinions. 

This isn't from the benefit of hindsight loads of posters called it a huge gamble to go in to a hugely compacted season with only three senior centre backs. Last season was the same we didn't have cover for the front three or Robbo. We got away with it last season because the front three and Robbo played a stupid number of games.

This season to even have a senior centre back on the bench we would have needed zero injuries and suspensions. Add in the fact that Klopp loves to throw a third centre back on when we are seeing out games and I don't see how anyone could say it wasn't a huge gamble.

[Jookie]

This isn't from the benefit of hindsight loads of posters called it a huge gamble to go in to a hugely compacted season with only three senior centre backs. Last season was the same we didn't have cover for the front three or Robbo. We got away with it last season because the front three and Robbo played a stupid number of games.

This season to even have a senior centre back on the bench we would have needed zero injuries and suspensions. Add in the fact that Klopp loves to throw a third centre back on when we are seeing out games and I don't see how anyone could say it wasn't a huge gamble.

Why did Klopp take that gamble then? Or at least be part of the decision making process that landed us in that position?

If it was so obvious to many on here then why don't you think Klopp and others at the club were happy with going in that direction?

[Eeyore]

Every team takes gambles with their squad depth in certain positions. It's the nature of finances, balancing squad harmony and the rules over registration of squads.

It's been said many times before that Klopp likes to work with a smaller squad and have players with versatility to play numerous positions if required. This season is obviously different given the compact nature. Those same factors that meant a compact season also mean selling players in the last 2 windows to either make space in the squad or create funds is much harder than usual.

We need a CB now due to the unusual circumstances (i.e. 2 long term injuries) and the gamble we took in the summer (one I suspect Klopp was part of the decision making team on).I think the owners/recruitment team can be criticised for the lack of CB in this window given Klopp obviously wants one. But that's a separate argument than the narrative of a chronic lack of investment that you are suggesting

Over the last couple of summer windows we have had a combined negative Net spend. Doing that whilst having huge gaps in the squad is pretty much the definition of a chronic lack of investment.

It isn't just the first team though we have a chronic lack of centre backs who can play in our system full stop. That well and truly came home to roost yesterday.

[Eeyore]

Why did Klopp take that gamble then? Or at least be part of the decision making process that landed us in that position?

If it was so obvious to many on here then why don't you think Klopp and others at the club were happy with going in that direction?

Personally I think it was because Klopp was left between a rock and a hard place. He wanted to freshen up the way we played. I think that was needed. What is unacceptable is having to sacrifice Lovren AND Hoever to do it. It isn't just this season though. Paying so little upfront for Jota could well impact next season and could explain our inability to bring in a centre back now.

[Dave D]

Why did Klopp take that gamble then? Or at least be part of the decision making process that landed us in that position?

If it was so obvious to many on here then why don't you think Klopp and others at the club were happy with going in that direction?

Who says Klopp took that gamble? The fans? Journalists?

Here are a few quotes from Jόrgen over the years. It must be clear by now whats going on.

"I can say something that is maybe a more important thing. As a manager of a football club I have bosses, and if bosses decide, for example, just in general, to sell a player or we don't sell him, then I have to accept it.

"If they don't sell him, then I'm not involved anymore. I'm responsible for all players, not just one, two or three. I cannot say anything about it. The only thing is I work with the players I have - that is what I'm always doing."

"These decisions are not my decisions. I cannot decide if we do something in the transfer market or not."

“Of course somebody else is making the decisions. It was always like this.

“We discuss the situation pretty much on a daily basis, could we improve something or not and we make recommendations but I cannot spend the money. I never did. Is that news to you?"



It makes uncomfortable reading for some people and I'm sure there'll be a clamour to shut this down. But these are actual quotes from Jόrgen. He has always been honest with us.

[kasperoff]

Can’t even get in the ground to show them we’re behind them

All there is possible social media

Klopp out trending. Cool.

You're showing some naivety here. You must understand that this is almost certainly rival fans on the wind up? Please don't fall for it.

And having a moan on here about current form is not the same as wanting #kloppout. You're being far too dynamic. Like I've already said, it's permitted to be concerned at current form, and express that on a forum that is, after all, supposed to be about debate. I'm sure this is not what you really feel, you come across like anyone with negative viewpoint is a "twat".

If it is, then that's fair enough as well, to be honest. We all have a right to our own opinion.

[kasperoff]

That’s why

Klopp and the players need to hear support.

Mostly angry because yesterday was clearly the best we’ve been in a while and it still wasn’t good enough because there wasn’t a win to go with it. Like we’re going to play united every week with Williams at the back

Thing is, we do have lots of good sides to play in the immediate future.  We play Man City, Leicester, Leipzig and Everton over the course of 2 weeks soon and Matip can only play once a week. So it's likely we'll see Williams line up for us again in 2 of those fixtures.

[MrBernard]

Fabinho is needed on the midfield, and so is Hendo when he is healthy. This is not only about the CB position, it affects the balance of the entire team.

[Fruity]

Happy now moaners?

The media will pick up on that now

Tell you we have gathered some right twats as ‘fans’ the last few years

That can't be Liverpool supporters. I would be astounded if it was. Obviously you might get the odd numpty but other fans would be desperate to see Klopp go so I imagine it's them.

[Suareznumber7]

This isn't from the benefit of hindsight loads of posters called it a huge gamble to go in to a hugely compacted season with only three senior centre backs. Last season was the same we didn't have cover for the front three or Robbo. We got away with it last season because the front three and Robbo played a stupid number of games.

This season to even have a senior centre back on the bench we would have needed zero injuries and suspensions. Add in the fact that Klopp loves to throw a third centre back on when we are seeing out games and I don't see how anyone could say it wasn't a huge gamble.

Again.  All your opinion and/or everyone else who posted about it. 

[McrRed]

Probably because he is not good enough right now.

This is the point. Right now, he's learning as a centre back. If he can come back from it then he'll be strongly poised to have a good career moving forwards, if he can't it could break him. That's down to his mentality and the coaching staff. Even experienced CBs fuck up... remember Carra's record for own goals? Skrtels grappling? Yesterday Mo made more.mistakes than the kid but he also scored the goals. Hopefully Rhys will use this to find his focus and his confidence and self-beiief.  Hopefully.

[Eeyore]

This is the point. Right now, he's learning as a centre back. If he can come back from it then he'll be strongly poised to have a good career moving forwards, if he can't it could break him. That's down to his mentality and the coaching staff. Even experienced CBs fuck up... remember Carra's record for own goals? Skrtels grappling? Yesterday Mo made more.mistakes than the kid but he also scored the goals. Hopefully Rhys will use this to find his focus and his confidence and self-beiief.  Hopefully.

Forwards are allowed to make mistakes or to put it another way to take chances and risks. Centre backs simply don't have the same leeway especially in our system. It isn't Rhys's fault, but he made a series of really poor errors yesterday. He didn't know when to hold and when to go and challenge, he kept going to ground and making basic errors.

He simply doesn't have the pace or experience to play in our system. He will gain experience but that lack of pace is going to be a massive headache for him.

[Marty 85]

That’s why

Klopp and the players need to hear support.

Mostly angry because yesterday was clearly the best we’ve been in a while and it still wasn’t good enough because there wasn’t a win to go with it. Like we’re going to play united every week with Williams at the back

People are stupid. You only have to glance on facebook or twitter. Unfortunately alot then carry that on over onto the boards. Alot are just casual football and Liverpool fans who see nothing other than the result. Facebook and Twitter is a fucking scourge on society. Before, these people with their bullshit views and opinions would never have been heard, or laughed at if they tried to spout it in public.