Topic: FT Sunderland 2 vs Liverpool 2 (Sturridge 19', Defoe pen 25' 84' Mane 71')

[TepidT2O]

Not arguing with you there.

Oh yes you are

[nozza]

I thought we played really well, we just had a coupe of mental lapses that in true Liverpool fashion we got punished for.
On the whole I thought we always looked in control and made plenty of chances. I thought the effort was there from every player.
Gone are the days when you say we should beat these lower placed teams. Any away game is a full on fucking battle nowadays. We are playing some of the best football I have seen in years, we may not win the league this year but to be in and around it like we are is more than I expected. Chelsea will have a blip, some of the other teams  around us will put runs together too. Just fucking enjoy it for what it is...the best season we have had in years so far. Over 30 pages and the majority of it moaning and slating players ??  This place baffles me.

[rowan_d]

Anyone else wake up this morning and the first feeling was 'bollocks, we dropped points yesterday'?

[Mr_Shane]

Anyone else wake up this morning and the first feeling was 'bollocks, we dropped points yesterday'?

Well yes, but my mood has improved a bit when I saw the bournemouth-arsenal score

[LFCEmpire]

Well yes, but my mood has improved a bit when I saw the bournemouth-arsenal score

 

[ScubaSteve]

Well yes, but my mood has improved a bit when I saw the bournemouth-arsenal score

Not just yet 

[alonsoisared]

Just seen this very good post that pretty much sums up my views. The past two occasions that we've nearly won it we've imploded the following season (heck, we went from 2nd to 5th between 01/02 and 02/03 as well). Whilst I think that is unlikely this time around given Klopp will be around for the foreseeable future and we don't have any superstar players agitating for a move we really do need to make the most of favourable circumstances when they present themselves. We will in all likelihood have European football again next season (and hopefully for many seasons to come) which means an even more chaotic fixture list and less time to prepare for league games.

As an aside how fucking annoying is it that every time we've got our act together this century somebody else is always better. Arsenal going on their (soon to be beaten) record winning run at the end of 01/02, coming up short against what was probably Ferguson's best United side in 08/09 with Ronaldo in ridiculous form and then City outscoring our club record breaking side of 13/14. And now Chelsea taking the piss this time around. We'd have absolutely pissed the league last year if we'd shown anything close to the form we have this time around.

It is tough to take isnt it?! This Liverpool team last season or 12/13 for example would have fucking walked it. The most annoying thing is theres a lot of similarities between now and 08/09 in the way United then and Chelsea now have been grinding out results. I think in february or march at some point united went 8 without conceding, they didnt seem to be playing at all well while we swept teams aside but we still couldnt make any ground on them. What chelsea dont have is a ronaldo (they do have a costa and a hazard though!) and even united hit a sticky spot that season. Back to back defeats to us and fulham and they were on the rocks...course we know what happened next but there is hope. Chelsea will drop points, enough points for us to win it if we can get on a run of our own. We just need to cut out these frustrating results or we will give ourselves too much to do.

Didnt even realise united is our next game. Nice chance to bounce back.

[Mr_Shane]

well its over Bournemouth 3 Arsenal 3, not the best result but still points dripped as well for Arsenal

[jillcwhomever]

Oh yes you are

Oh no I'm not. 

[Kenny's Jacket]

They aren't corrupt.

But they are stupid and incompetent.

Well yes, thats exactly what Im saying. However people keep replying to me stating they aren't corrupt as if Ive said they are.

 

[free_at_last]

Well yes, thats exactly what Im saying. However people keep replying to me stating they aren't corrupt as if Ive said they are.

 

There may or may not be corruption amongst the F.A(who can forget Fergietime , Manc Riley and copious manu penalties not to
mention the Suarez kangaroo court held by fergies mates - and Halsey even admitted after he retired that he used to text fergie) but they should not put themselves in a position to be criticised.
 For example, I would not be happy to have Anthony Taylor referee us at Old Trafford or in a Final even if the precedent has been set(he did ok at Anfield apart from being slow to book the mancs and once getting in the way of Coutinho as he was about to shoot ).
His whole family is manc and we are supposed to believe he follows Altrincham. Why have everybody watching him like a hawk for some perceived bias - keep him away from the fixture and remove any hint of corruption if decisions go awry.

[RedKenWah]

I thought the ref was alright. He wasn't brilliant but he wasn't totally dodgy either. The 2 penalties given were penalties for sure and you can't defend against that and let's not forget that he could have awarded another penalty against Can as well if we were being really unlucky. Whether the second penalty should have happened from the free kick is something else but again as a team when defending set pieces, you have to not give the ref the option of blowing for a penalty and we did that unfortunately.

The game itself, yep disappointing to drop points but it's commendable we got a draw given the circumstances of playing less than 48 hours earlier. I think the game highlighted that we as a club could do with bringing in a player or 2 to provide a couple of more options, given Mane gone for the month and the likes of Coutinho still working his way back from injury.
All in all though I'd also say that if we had more time between the 2 games then we would have won that easily.

[Upinsmoke]

The first one isn't a pen, he knows he's gonna get squeezed and goes for the gap, the only pen is the Can handball, Mane's was a pen but not a foul leading up to the free kick, also sturridge gets injured yet apparently no foul, what so he kicked himself did he? Referee was a joke, but it was always gonna happen.

[Yevgeny]

7 from 9 is a very good return. If we go to Old Trafford and win, which we're capable of doing, everything will be hunky dory again. If not, it's still January and plenty of games to be played. Obviously the title is what we all dream of, but a return to the Champions League and elite status is the priority for this season. It wouldn't be a bad consolation prize, especially with a potential cup final coming up too. Jurgen is building something great here, anyone can see that. We can't expect to blow every team away. There'll be painful blips along the way. That's football.

[spider-neil]

I didn't think the first one was a penalty unless the ref thinks our players should have got out the way.
Sturridge hacked down, nothing. Minutes later Defoe is bearly touched and gets a free kick. The ref was a fucking c*nt. 

[free_at_last]

I didn't think the first one was a penalty unless the ref thinks our players should have got out the way.
Sturridge hacked down, nothing. Minutes later Defoe is bearly touched and gets a free kick. The ref was a fucking c*nt.

Well his whole family are mancs. What if his wife is a manc and does him a "special" when he comes home the hero after screwing
the scousers

[Medellin]

Woud be interesting to hear what team some in here would have selected to those who thought we lost because of tiredness?

[Redsnappa]

Woud be interesting to hear what team some in here would have selected to those who thought we lost because of tiredness?

Mignolet
Alexander-Arnold
Lovren
Klavan
Moreno
Stewart
Lallana
Can
Ejaria
Sturridge
Origi

Bench: Karius, Lucas, Milner, Wijnaldum, Woodburn, Clyne, Wilson

Stewart in the Hendo role, Can more attacking alongside Lallana & Ejaria.

I could have left Clyne in and Trent on the bench, but I wanted to see how the boy would do seeing as he's very attack-minded.

Obviously it's all a bit pie-in-the-sky and after the event, but I was surprised how conservative Jurgen's selection was.

[cdav]

Mignolet
Alexander-Arnold
Lovren
Klavan
Moreno
Stewart
Lallana
Can
Ejaria
Sturridge
Origi

Bench: Karius, Lucas, Milner, Wijnaldum, Woodburn, Clyne, Wilson

Stewart in the Hendo role, Can more attacking alongside Lallana & Ejaria.

I could have left Clyne in and Trent on the bench, but I wanted to see how the boy would do seeing as he's very attack-minded.

Obviously it's all a bit pie-in-the-sky and after the event, but I was surprised how conservative Jurgen's selection was.

What would people have said if we had drawn with this team? Its kind of a no win situation if you drop points either way.

Also, as discussed on the review show on TAW- would the likes of Milner and Clyne, knowing we are in a title race, accept being left out due to fatigue if we lost points or would it undermine their trust in the manager? Its certainly a tough call either way.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

Can't wait for the game at OT. With United being 'in form' while still playing like shit, the media is begging them up in the title race.

God I hope they label us the underdogs. Will make things so much sweeter when we run them off the pitch.

[BER]

Anyone else wake up this morning and the first feeling was 'bollocks, we dropped points yesterday'?

I did, butt then i thought 'we have Klopp' and all was right with the world once more.

[JackWard33]

What would people have said if we had drawn with this team? Its kind of a no win situation if you drop points either way.

Also, as discussed on the review show on TAW- would the likes of Milner and Clyne, knowing we are in a title race, accept being left out due to fatigue if we lost points or would it undermine their trust in the manager? Its certainly a tough call either way.

Yeah I thought that discussion on the anfield wrap was a lot of horse shit to be honest
Klopp picks the team not the players. If a top level player has got to this stage of their career and doesn't understand the marginal gains / losses that fatigue is responsible for then that's on them.
 The idea that you pick senior players for every league game in case you offend them is moronic - whatever Klopp said about it in public there's no chance he's picking the team like that

It was kind of a tough call but not really - picking teams is what the manager does. If he'd made more changes everyone would have understood why.
My guess is he went with the settled team because a) he puts a big emphasis on players being in rhythm and b) he doesn't trust the alternatives - there's a big drop off beyond our first team

[JackWard33]

Just to add to the fatigue argument ...
I'm not massively into running stats but in this case this is interesting (from Dan Kennett)
We ran a season high 120km vs Stoke then 117km vs City then a season LOW 108km vs Sunderland

As clear a sign of fatigue in the team as you're likely to find and at this level a 10% drop off from a team in anything is significant

[Medellin]

Just to add to the fatigue argument ...
I'm not massively into running stats but in this case this is interesting (from Dan Kennett)
We ran a season high 120km vs Stoke then 117km vs City then a season LOW 108km vs Sunderland

As clear a sign of fatigue in the team as you're likely to find and at this level a 10% drop off from a team in anything is significant

There's a good debate to be had on this & i'll reply to RS's 11 soon.

This article contradicts those km's..not even close.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38491515

[d1ward]

Still find it odd that extra time wasn't added on for the injury to the Sunderland defender. They'd already announced 5 minutes at that point.

Hoping for anything but a Chelsea win tonight, then this result won't be too bad. I think it's encouraging after a busy schedule that only 2 penalties stopped us from getting maximum points.

[JackWard33]

There's a good debate to be had on this & i'll reply to RS's 11 soon.

This article contradicts those km's..not even close.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38491515

Okay that's odd because Kennett is usually right with his numbers - wonder if he's read it wrong or if there are 2 sources of data .....

[Thepooloflife]

I didn't think the first one was a penalty unless the ref thinks our players should have got out the way.
Sturridge hacked down, nothing. Minutes later Defoe is bearly touched and gets a free kick. The ref was a fucking c*nt. 

Couldn't have put it more eloquently !   

[Redsnappa]

What would people have said if we had drawn with this team? Its kind of a no win situation if you drop points either way.

Also, as discussed on the review show on TAW- would the likes of Milner and Clyne, knowing we are in a title race, accept being left out due to fatigue if we lost points or would it undermine their trust in the manager? Its certainly a tough call either way.

Oh if we'd have drawn - or lost - there'd have been hell to pay. But there's been that anyway with a draw playing our first eleven.

Bit strange by Jurgen. I can't be the only one who thought some of the lads looked shattered back end of that City game. He had no problem last year with chucking kids in all over the place, circumstances different of course, but he's been very conservative of late. Can't argue with the wins of course    but not blooding the youngsters a bit more when an opportunity arises just seems a retrograde step, what with injuries and suspensions, AFCON etc.

I do get the feeling that if it had been a League game this weekend rather than a home Cup tie where he's probably gonna play the kids anyway, we'd have seen something like the team I posted.

[Medellin]

RS,
I don't think that 11 you chose would have taken the 3pt to be honest.
TAA for all his promise wouldn't have added anything that Clyne didn't offer,maybe switching Clyne to LB i'd have been more comfortable with.
As for the front 5/6..Stewart,Yep would have been good with that.
The 5 ahead of him you selected has a few alarm bells going off for me..i don't see any fluent play between them.
Studge,Lallana are well capable..i could see us losing possession & unable to keep the ball to build pressure.
Tough one,a bit of fantasy footy & hindsight in there.
I'm not against what JK done as it turned out we played against their tired legs having played 48hrs prior themselves.
We were very unfortunate not to come away with 3pts on the night,the 11 out there had 15 shots on target if i remember right-not bad for an exhausted team!

[Dubred]

Oh if we'd have drawn - or lost - there'd have been hell to pay. But there's been that anyway with a draw playing our first eleven.

Bit strange by Jurgen. I can't be the only one who thought some of the lads looked shattered back end of that City game. He had no problem last year with chucking kids in all over the place, circumstances different of course, but he's been very conservative of late. Can't argue with the wins of course    but not blooding the youngsters a bit more when an opportunity arises just seems a retrograde step, what with injuries and suspensions, AFCON etc.

I do get the feeling that if it had been a League game this weekend rather than a home Cup tie where he's probably gonna play the kids anyway, we'd have seen something like the team I posted.

Shattered or not, we done enough to win.  Scored 2 away goals.

You just sometimes can't allow for one penalty given against you, let alone two in the same game.

Regardless of whether we were at our best or not, 2 away goals is a good return and would probably most of the time secure a win.

As Arsenal found out last night, can't take nuffink for granted.

Shit happens.........we move on.  Still in a very enviable position.

[na fir dearg]

Tired. We were tired and lacked any spark. However, if you'd said we would take 10 out of the 12 points on offer over christmas, I would of snapped your hand off. So in the grand scheme of things, a frustartion more than any sort of disaster.

exactly - we were always gonna drop some points over Christmas

[JackWard33]

There's a good debate to be had on this & i'll reply to RS's 11 soon.

This article contradicts those km's..not even close.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38491515

Kennett has now said on his time line that there are actually 2 different providers for this data - he uses the same one as Sky so is sticking with the season low running vs Sunderland

[So… Howard Philips]

exactly - we were always gonna drop some points over Christmas

If we were to drop points better to drop them aganst Sunderland, rather than City. Pity a crap ref and a moment of madness cost us the game. You could live with a late equaliser from good play or a worldy from Defoe.

[RogerTheRed]

Everyone calling the Mane ha and all a moment of madness. He claimed straight away he had been pushed and if you look again he was and put both hands out.

[mulfella]

Everyone calling the Mane ha and all a moment of madness. He claimed straight away he had been pushed and if you look again he was and put both hands out.

Are you seriously suggesting this isn't a deliberate handball?   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVyltoHrWHU

[12Kings]

So after all the fucking misery from this particular match thread we can conclude this....

Rather than 2 points lost it was a point gained 😫😀

[Stussy]

right Chelsea lose so not so bad. no point dwelling on how we could be 3 points behind them. New year, new push. We can still win the league.

[12Kings]

right Chelsea lose so not so bad. no point dwelling on how we could be 3 points behind them. New year, new push. We can still win the league.

It's not bad at all, we've gained ground, Christmas was a success, we'll have a few back from injury hopefully also for the next match, against the second tier team from Salford.

[Purple Red]

One point gained. 

[lessthanmatt]

One point gained That's the peak of what we can extract from this result. Take the point and let this thread die. ONWARDS TO THE MANCS!_{(Plymouth first)}