Topic: FT Sunderland 2 vs Liverpool 2 (Sturridge 19', Defoe pen 25' 84' Mane 71')

[killer-heels]

to be honest, I rate Matip and Lovren a lot, and like them as a partnership. Klavan is a good backup, but perhaps Sakho being sold could lead to a defender in his prime coming in and pushing Matip and Lovren for the starting spots. Its not an urgent area which needs addressing.

This might get some flack but while I like Mignolet, its clear we don't have a top draw goalkeeper. Perhaps Mignolet/Karius can kick on, but its a definite weakness we have. Of Spurs/Chelsea/United/Arse and us, we definitely have the weakest keeper(s).

Coutinho being out longish term has really been an issue. This is where Chelsea are significantly stronger. Willian/Cesc on the bench...we have nothing even close to that.

Klavan has done well and he is of a certain level. I am not convinced with Lovren however apart from a handful of games here and there. He is still far too shaky.

I dont think Chelsea are that much better in depth. We have Origi and Sturridge as well. They would have struggled if Hazard was out as long as Coutinho was. The problem has been that Sturridge and Origi occupy the same area so Firmino has had to move. If one of those was a natural winger, with their same level of quality, it wouldnt be an issue.

[KevLFC]

Make no mistake, I'm not throwing in the towel. I've been on the league challenge bandwagon since the day we beat Chelsea. But we cannot keep throwing away points at shit sides like Sunderland. We just cannot. All that means is that we now place more pressure on ourselves to win in more difficult games like the upcoming one against the Mancs at OT. I think we can beat them and I fucking hope we do though. Regardless, I don't think we should be dropping such points. The more we do that, the more we'll end up having to match Chelsea's run to win the title.

What gets me. Why are we more likley to make a mistake against Sunderland but not City?. Against City I couldn't really find any silly errors. Against Sunderland there must have been about 5 or 6 and 2 let to goals

[Nick110581]

What gets me. Why are we more likley to make a mistake against Sunderland but not City?. Against City I couldn't really find any silly errors. Against Sunderland there must have been about 5 or 6 and 2 let to goals

44 hours. Not rocket science.

[harryc]

What gets me. Why are we more likley to make a mistake against Sunderland but not City?. Against City I couldn't really find any silly errors. Against Sunderland there must have been about 5 or 6 and 2 let to goals

Tired bodies = tired minds.

[elpistolero7]

Klavan has done well and he is of a certain level. I am not convinced with Lovren however apart from a handful of games here and there. He is still far too shaky.

I dont think Chelsea are that much better in depth. We have Origi and Sturridge as well. They would have struggled if Hazard was out as long as Coutinho was. The problem has been that Sturridge and Origi occupy the same area so Firmino has had to move. If one of those was a natural winger, with their same level of quality, it wouldnt be an issue.

Yeah. Wish Sakho hadn't been an idiot and ruined his relationship with Klopp. Still think he's a class player, and with him we'd have a lot of depth and variety at center half.

Yeah, given our system, its annoying that we 2 very good players on the bench (attackers) each game when everyone is fit, but both are natural strikers, and its clear Firmino is far more effective as a striker than in any other position.

Would be interesting to see, at some point, when Coutinho is rested/put in midfield, Mane on the left, sturridge on the right and fimino/origi up top. Sturridge, as far as I remember, was pure class for Chelsea on the right under AVB.

[Dench57]

Sometimes I love social media but times like this I hate it, keep in mind these people are so called Reds!! Saying we/Klopp are shit because we can beat City but not Sunderland... who the fuck are these people, wish we didn't have "fans" like this to be honest!!

I try to avoid social media/online articles after a shit result. Too depressing seeing other team's fans gloating and LFC "fans" throwing their toys out of the pram 

[hide5seek]

Tiredness is an excuse. we already knew when the games was being played and it should've been accounted for. Lose to mancs and we're 2 points in front of them.

[12Kings]

I have to say I'm surprised by the knee jerk reaction in here and the rest of social media, truely fucking pathetic. I know they all get paid ridiculous amounts of money but to perform at a high level for 90 mins you need rest, we beat city and we drew against Sunderland, away from
Home, we could have won if not for a dodgy free kick. Regardless the teams
energy was spent against city, moyes new that and still parked the bus for long spells.

 It's half time, we're second, Chelsea seem to have some support though if your asking me, this league is corrupt, did you see the rest they got over Christmas!?

[Dench57]

I know they all get paid ridiculous amounts of money but to perform at a high level for 90 mins you need rest

I've never understood this argument. What does salary have to do with your biology, what your body is physically capable of? Footballers are human, same as everyone else. If I pay someone £1million a day does that mean they can run a marathon every day?

[Nick110581]

Tiredness is an excuse. we already knew when the games was being played and it should've been accounted for. Lose to mancs and we're 2 points in front of them.

How do you account for it ? It's obvious that the team would be fucked.

[Nick110581]

I have to say I'm surprised by the knee jerk reaction in here and the rest of social media, truely fucking pathetic. I know they all get paid ridiculous amounts of money but to perform at a high level for 90 mins you need rest, we beat city and we drew against Sunderland, away from
Home, we could have won if not for a dodgy free kick. Regardless the teams
energy was spent against city, moyes new that and still parked the bus for long spells.

 It's half time, we're second, Chelsea seem to have some support though if your asking me, this league is corrupt, did you see the rest they got over Christmas!?

The leagues not corrupt.

[Medellin]

Tiredness is an excuse. we already knew when the games was being played and it should've been accounted for. Lose to mancs and we're 2 points in front of them.

Both teams played 2 games in 48 hours,Sunderland did have a couple of fresher legs out there-they also had 35 & 36 year olds playing too.
A bit like blaming the pitch for a poor result.

[Nick110581]

Both teams played 2 games in 48 hours,Sunderland did have a couple of fresher legs out there-they also had 35 & 36 year olds playing too.
A bit like blaming the pitch for a poor result.

Not at all.

They were smashed by Burnley and didn't try very hard.

They obviously needed a reaction after that.

[Buck Pete]

Was dreading the journey home last night and would have put my mortgage on Robbie Savage and that prick Jason Mohammed having a field day at Liverpool's expense.  Would have turned off if they started but they were surprisingly reasonable and acknowledged 13 out of 15 points is a nice return and Liverpool still sit in 2nd.

Pep's media snub thankfully took any focus away from us and most of the Muppet callers left us alone.

No way we were going to go the rest of the season winning every single game and I suspect Sunderland's horrific display against Burnley did us no favours as they were always going to raise their game at home against us.  A combination of a good rollicking from the manager and natural pride forced them to up their game 10 fold last night.

That said, Sunderland were still poor but we managed to match them in the shitness stakes.  90 minutes against a good city side took its toll.

Hendo and Phil are likely be back for the next premier league games so no worries whatsoever. Firmly believe we will still push Chelsea all the way regardless of what happens at Old Trafford which is a coin-flip of a game at the best of times whatever the league positions.

[gregorio]

The leagues not corrupt.

But the clubs are quite happy to dance to the tune of Sky and BT Sport - the fixture congestion and the disparity between rest time was almost entirely due to TV moving the matches to suit their schedules

[Funky_Gibbons]

Both teams played 2 games in 48 hours,Sunderland did have a couple of fresher legs out there-they also had 35 & 36 year olds playing too.
A bit like blaming the pitch for a poor result.

Don't we have the highest distance covered in the league with the most amounts of sprints too? Not really a good comparison.

[fowlermagic]

We were a tad unlucky yesterday as really should have come home with 3 points but a wee hiccup should not hide the fact that we are having a BRILLIANT season. BRILLIANT!!! Two losses after 20 league games plus numerous cup games, 48 league goals scored, not one loss to another Top 6 side with us only dropping 4 points against them all. That is title winning form and still is if Chelsea don't keep flying on record breaking form. If our bleeps are the odd away draw due to unenforced errors caused by 2 day breaks btw games then I cant complain. Jaysus if we are grumbling now then we must have slept through the past 26 years of somewhat very iffy league form for 90% of the time. New Year, new resolutions and one of those surely should be enjoy what we are seeing from our club even more as they are flying.

[slaphead]

The leagues not corrupt.

Of course it's not.
That kind of talk about the ref's against us, the media against, opposition keepers raise their game against us etc etc etc after we drop points is just excuses.
As much as many would like to believe, its not corrupt and conspiring against us.
If we win the league its on our merit and we fully deserve it, if we don't its because we don't deserve it - nothing more, nothing less - very very simple.

[Medellin]

Not at all.

They were smashed by Burnley and didn't try very hard.

They obviously needed a reaction after that.

Total distances run were 118km vs Sunderland & 116km vs City..i'll leave you to explain that.

[Dench57]

We were a tad unlucky yesterday as really should have come home with 3 points but a wee hiccup should not hide the fact that we are having a BRILLIANT season. BRILLIANT!!! Two losses after 20 league games plus numerous cup games, 48 league goals scored, not one loss to another Top 6 side with us only dropping 4 points against them all. That is title winning form and still is if Chelsea don't keep flying on record breaking form. If our bleeps are the odd away draw due to unenforced errors caused by 2 day breaks btw games then I cant complain. Jaysus if we are grumbling now then we must have slept through the past 26 years of somewhat very iffy league form for 90% of the time. New Year, new resolutions and one of those surely should be enjoy what we are seeing from our club even more as they are flying.

Is right. Like someone on TAW said, Chelsea are kind of distorting what should be considered an excellent season so far.

[M(oaning) B(ecomes) E(mbarrassing)]

But the clubs are quite happy to dance to the tune of Sky and BT Sport - the fixture congestion and the disparity between rest time was almost entirely due to TV moving the matches to suit their schedules

Nope, you're wrong.  Neither of Sunderland's games (Burnley away and Liverpool at home) were televised but they had to play on the same days.  So too Burnley (Sunderland Home, City away), neither of their games televised.

People are looking for excuses here and tiredness can not possibly be one of them when other teams (Chelsea apart - surprisingly) had to go through the same thing.
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[Red in Korea]

We were a tad unlucky yesterday as really should have come home with 3 points but a wee hiccup should not hide the fact that we are having a BRILLIANT season. BRILLIANT!!! Two losses after 20 league games plus numerous cup games, 48 league goals scored, not one loss to another Top 6 side with us only dropping 4 points against them all. That is title winning form and still is if Chelsea don't keep flying on record breaking form. If our bleeps are the odd away draw due to unenforced errors caused by 2 day breaks btw games then I cant complain. Jaysus if we are grumbling now then we must have slept through the past 26 years of somewhat very iffy league form for 90% of the time. New Year, new resolutions and one of those surely should be enjoy what we are seeing from our club even more as they are flying.

Thumbs up!!

[Medellin]

Don't we have the highest distance covered in the league with the most amounts of sprints too? Not really a good comparison.

Yep i think you are right,the lads exceeded the shift they put in vs City too.

[gregorio]

Nope, you're wrong.  Neither of Sunderland's games (Burnley away and Liverpool at home) were televised but they had to play on the same days.  So too Burnley (Sunderland Home, City away), neither of their games televised.

People are looking for excuses here and tiredness can not possibly be one of them when other teams (Chelsea apart - surprisingly) had to go through the same thing.
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I'm not looking for excuses, my post was in the context of someone posting that the league is corrupt

[Chris~]

People are looking for excuses here and tiredness can not possibly be one of them when other teams (Chelsea apart - surprisingly) had to go through the same thing.
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Every other side made multiple changes to their team, we made one and that was due to an injury, we also only made one change from the Stoke to City games. I also wouldn't be surprised if we recorded some of the highest distance covered and high intensity sprints amongst teams in the 2 previous games.

Playing 2/3 games so close together at the intensity we do with minimal changes is going to have an impact on you, that's just common sense.

[gatcliffe]

Total distances run were 118km vs Sunderland & 116km vs City..i'll leave you to explain that.

If that is correct not that I doubt it goes to show how much physically the team put into the game.

[Nick110581]

If that is correct not that I doubt it goes to show how much physically the team put into the game.

You cant blame effort.

We were unlucky in ways but could have easily lost it too.

[BER]

Undone by two braindead moments. Nothing you can really do about that.

Maybe i'm just paranoid but if feels like the refs are giving us nothing at the moment. Moreso the niggly fouls than the big ones, couple of corner shouts yesterday felt like they went the wrong way. Trips in and around the box, our are getting waved away, yet punished for the same thing.

[Elzar]

Undone by two braindead moments. Nothing you can really do about that.

Maybe i'm just paranoid but if feels like the refs are giving us nothing at the moment. Moreso the niggly fouls than the big ones, couple of corner shouts yesterday felt like they went the wrong way. Trips in and around the box, our are getting waved away, yet punished for the same thing.

The Sturridge injury came from a nailed on foul. The guy didn't touch the ball!

[Hymer Red]

If we finish top 4 this season it will be a great achievement by a great manager. I would rather have him than any of the others out there.

Too many short memories on here of where we were before Klopp came such a short time ago. Give him a couple more transfer windows and then you can complain if we dont start a title challenge.

Good as this season is so far its most likely way too soon to win the thing and the truth is any sensible fan would have settled for any of the top 4 places at the start of the season and said we had done well.

We can and will keep fighting under Klopp and our position right now tells us all just how good he is.

[gatcliffe]

We were unlucky in ways but could have easily lost it too.

Not wishing to be a clever dick in what way ?
We had more shots on target and more possession.

[El Lobo]

Fuck top 4.

We've taken 13 from our last 15, we can't control others around us winning too unless we play them ourselves.

I think the problem is, people are getting jittery about Yernited cos they've stumbled upon a run of wins. Who cares? They were so far back in the first place that this run is a complete irrelevance. Scraping late wins at home to Middlesbrough and relying on one of the great incompetent officiating displays to beat West Ham...and they're still 6th, still barely within touching distance. But people don't want the unlikely circumstance of dealing with a fall after we've mocked them all season, so suddenly top 4 would be amazing but a title challenge is now gone.

[jillcwhomever]

Fuck top 4.

We've taken 13 from our last 15, we can't control others around us winning too unless we play them ourselves.

I think the problem is, people are getting jittery about Yernited cos they've stumbled upon a run of wins. Who cares? They were so far back in the first place that this run is a complete irrelevance. Scraping late wins at home to Middlesbrough and relying on one of the great incompetent officiating displays to beat West Ham...and they're still 6th, still barely within touching distance. But people don't want the unlikely circumstance of dealing with a fall after we've mocked them all season, so suddenly top 4 would be amazing but a title challenge is now gone.

Top post.

[Dubred]

If we finish top 4 this season it will be a great achievement by a great manager. I would rather have him than any of the others out there.

Too many short memories on here of where we were before Klopp came such a short time ago. Give him a couple more transfer windows and then you can complain if we dont start a title challenge.

Good as this season is so far its most likely way too soon to win the thing and the truth is any sensible fan would have settled for any of the top 4 places at the start of the season and said we had done well.

We can and will keep fighting under Klopp and our position right now tells us all just how good he is.

I can't help but have a big grin on my face throughout this season

Of course I want to win the damn league.......I saw the last one and its been a long long long wait since then.....

But there's just such a good feel factor around the club right now.  Everything is going in the right direction.

I knew we'd improve this season, but we're so much better than I expected.

Just enjoy it, the trophies are coming sooner rather than later.......maybe even this year with a bit of good fortune!

[Kop 81]

Bad day at the office but we move on, I saw all sorts on social media after this result from "Klopp = Flopp" to #KloppOut

Sometimes I love social media but times like this I hate it, keep in mind these people are so called Reds!! Saying we/Klopp are shit because we can beat City but not Sunderland... who the fuck are these people, wish we didn't have "fans" like this to be honest!!

We probably should have rotated squad a bit, you could see some of the boys were a bit tired but yeah, two penalties... they had nothing much bar the 1on1 that Migs was awesome for

Well said mate.  Some of our fans don't deserve Jurgen.

Our results have been superb this season.

[classycarra]

Total distances run were 118km vs Sunderland & 116km vs City..i'll leave you to explain that.

it's pretty easy to explain. we used three substitutes who between them played around 50 minutes (moreno), 25 minutes (lucas) and 15 minutes (origi). against city we only brought on origi for 30 minutes, and lucas for 5.

on another day you would expect more than 2 km extra from those 14 players from yesterday vs. the 13 against city.

but anyway, there's something called football that came in between all the running. and it was clearly affected by tired bodies and tired minds. anyone who has experience of long distance running will tell you that covering reasonable distances is no guaranteed indicator that you are particularly fresh in body and mind.

[End Product]

Feel for the team, it was like watching a game on the Hillary step, not felt this gutted about a game in January ever which is good and bad.

 Was fuming at Lucas in the aftermath, my head goes with a player seeing  the same mistake over and over again, unreasonable blame for the 2nd, considering  Mane is the the one with blood/ball on his hands.

 But the cheap freekick has been a troupe  of Lucas's career, its harsh but last night i needed a pillow to punch and it just so happened to be said one with Lucas's face as i manically cackled "unluckeeeee", whilst peppering said cushion. 

But fuck it, can't fault the effort.             

[12Kings]

I've never understood this argument. What does salary have to do with your biology, what your body is physically capable of? Footballers are human, same as everyone else. If I pay someone £1million a day does that mean they can run a marathon every day?

Thats exactly what I was saying if you read correctly. It's physically extremely challenging to expect anything from anyone when they have been worn into the ground, regardless of money

[alonsoisared]

We were a tad unlucky yesterday as really should have come home with 3 points but a wee hiccup should not hide the fact that we are having a BRILLIANT season. BRILLIANT!!! Two losses after 20 league games plus numerous cup games, 48 league goals scored, not one loss to another Top 6 side with us only dropping 4 points against them all. That is title winning form and still is if Chelsea don't keep flying on record breaking form. If our bleeps are the odd away draw due to unenforced errors caused by 2 day breaks btw games then I cant complain. Jaysus if we are grumbling now then we must have slept through the past 26 years of somewhat very iffy league form for 90% of the time. New Year, new resolutions and one of those surely should be enjoy what we are seeing from our club even more as they are flying.

Taken in isolation I see your point however it is a recurring theme that we are dropping points against much lesser sides and doing so from winning positions. How many other seasons will we win away at Chelsea and Arsenal, draw at Spurs and beat Man City at home? We've given ourselves a huge opportunity so it is incredibly frustrating that we also continue to be our own worst enemy as well.

Overall I agree with your tone to be honest that this season has been a fuck of a lot better than most of the seasons gone by since we last lifted the trophy. My problem is that this league is so difficult to win that when you are in a strong position you really need to capitalise because the whole landscape could be different by August. 08/09 I was sure after missing out that we would win it the following season, what happened? We lost Alonso, it all went pear shaped and within a year we had Roy Hodgson managing us. I felt the same at the end of 13/14, we lost Suarez and completely lost our way, Chelsea sorted themselves out and won it at a canter. I know we are in a different place now where we can be confident of retaining Klopp and in doing so we should continue to be competitive. However I agree with I think Carra who wrote that we aren't the only team around with a 2 or 3 year plan. Poch at Tottenham has been building a very strong side, Pep at City will only get better, Conte will believe he can further strengthen Chelsea. My point is that when you get yourself into position in this league you really, really need to make the most of it. We can still win it, I'll be cheering Spurs on 100% wednesday night and that is because of the belief that we can still do it, but we simply cannot afford to keep throwing points away against relegation fodder if we want to be in the picture come May.

[Johns_Barn]

Hate the scheduling so much. Arseholes running the show. Probably should've made more changes but it's gone now. Gone to brainfarts

I don't get the national cries of "30 years of hurt, jules rimmet  still [...]" and wonder why our teams are shattered.
I am a little concerned there haven't been a few changes/rotations for freshness. It seems we'd have to be forced into making them by injury or suspension.