Topic: Steven Gerrard

[redgriffin73]

Wasn't there suggestions the family were going to be living in Dubai?

Bahrain, I read. Whether that means they'll never set foot in Saudi though remains to be seen.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Bahrain, I read. Whether that means they'll never set foot in Saudi though remains to be seen.

The distance between Bahrain and Dammam is the same as from Liverpool to the Wirral.

[classycarra]

The distance between Bahrain and Dammam is the same as from Liverpool to the Wirral.

hahahaha. no

maybe you got confused by the scale on a map or something, but it's not even close

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

hahahaha. no

maybe you got confused by the scale on a map or something, but it's not even close

Maybe not Liverpool and the Wirral, but it is definitely an hour trip. maybe Liverpool to Manchester.

My aunt and uncle lived in Dammam two decades ago and they went and spent the weekends in Bahrain, every weekend. They'd sometime hang out with their friends (if they wanted more fun) during the midweek too.

[GreatEx]

yep, google says Dammam to Manama (capital of Bahrain) is 1 hr 7 min (70.8 km) via Route 80M, and Manama's in the north-east of the country so arriving on the island of Bahrain is an even shorter trip.

[Raaphael]

I blame Gerrard.

[Coolie High]

I blame Gerrard.

I blame Rafa.

[Raaphael]

Gerrard is acting very prickly going after our players.

[disgraced cake]

Gerrard is acting very prickly going after our players.

He's only after Henderson 

[amir87]

He's only after Henderson 

He wants Jay Spearing too.

[Raaphael]

Henderson is a bigger legend than Stevie.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Henderson is a bigger legend than Stevie.

Hendo is a legend, Stevie is an icon.

[Dim Glas]

He wants Jay Spearing too.

that's where I draw the line 

[tubby]

that's where I draw the line 

It's not a very high line though.

[Raaphael]

Hendo is a legend, Stevie is an icon.

Maybe. But I think he’s slightly overrated in Liverpool history as a loyal servant. He said he wanted to go to Chelsea after we won the CL. I think there are other Liverpool legends who would never even concider that.

[Yorkykopite]

Stevie is an icon.

Maybe so. But he forgets that Liverpool is full of iconoclasts.

[classycarra]

Maybe. But I think he’s slightly overrated in Liverpool history as a loyal servant. He said he wanted to go to Chelsea after we won the CL. I think there are other Liverpool legends who would never even concider that.

And henderson threatened to leave (inc. to man city) if he wasn't quickly given security of a new contract and a pay rise. and has now asked to leave, while undr that contract. don't see how you can hold something against gerrard but not henderson when he does the same, aside from recency bias (wanting to give hendo benefit of the doubt)

[Coolie High]

Maybe. But I think he’s slightly overrated in Liverpool history as a loyal servant. He said he wanted to go to Chelsea after we won the CL. I think there are other Liverpool legends who would never even concider that.

Like who? The only legends you can compare him to are those who never needed to leave Liverpool because they were playing for us at a time when we were not only dominant domestically but in Europe as well, albeit one of those legends actually left for a season to Juventus.

[rob1966]

Like who? The only legends you can compare him to are those who never needed to leave Liverpool because they were playing for us at a time when we were not only dominant domestically but in Europe as well, albeit one of those legends actually left for a season to Juventus.

Another went to Sampdoria

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Maybe so. But he forgets that Liverpool is full of iconoclasts.

Indeed. Kenny is golden tier icon. Stevie is silver tier icon.

[Raaphael]

And henderson threatened to leave (inc. to man city) if he wasn't quickly given security of a new contract and a pay rise. and has now asked to leave, while undr that contract. don't see how you can hold something against gerrard but not henderson when he does the same, aside from recency bias (wanting to give hendo benefit of the doubt)

I just said Henderson is a bigger Liverpool legend than Stevie. If Henderson goes to Saudi he’s just as greedy.

[So… Howard Philips]

Another went to Sampdoria

And another went to Hamburg.

[Yorkykopite]

Indeed. Kenny is golden tier icon. Stevie is silver tier icon.

I'm not certain you know what "iconoclasts" means?

[Coolie High]

I'm not certain you know what "iconoclasts" means?

 

[classycarra]

I just said Henderson is a bigger Liverpool legend than Stevie. If Henderson goes to Saudi he’s just as greedy.

fair enough on the latter. the former is obviously a wild take though

[Raaphael]

We won the league with Henderson as captain. We didn’t with Stevie. Henderson has been a better captain than Stevie ever was.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

We won the league with Henderson as captain. We didn’t with Stevie. Henderson has been a better captain than Stevie ever was.

Henderson has won it with Virgil, Salah and Mane, and Gerrard had to play with fucking Voronin, Kyrgiakos and Dossena.

Also not to mention Klopp.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

I'm not certain you know what "iconoclasts" means?

[Raaphael]

Henderson has won it with Virgil, Salah and Mane, and Gerrard had to play with fucking Voronin, Kyrgiakos and Dossena.

Also not to mention Klopp.

Gerrard also played with Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Hyypia. I see no reason why we shouldn’t win the league in 08/09. City is a better team than Man Utd ever was.

[classycarra]

We won the league with Henderson as captain. We didn’t with Stevie. Henderson has been a better captain than Stevie ever was.

So Naby Keita is more of a legend than Xabi Alonso? Nat Phillips more of a legend than Hyypia?

[Red Beret]

Rafa went to China himself, that deserves nearly as much condemnation as Gerrards move to Saudi, but check his thread and barely a mention.

Rafa's gone to a lot of dodgy clubs - Chelsea for one. But he's got a reputation for making baffling career choices. He might have been paid a shedload, but we know Rafa isn't motivated by money. He's obsessed with the game. He also had a proven track record as a very good manager.

I think it's safe to say that Saudi have not hired Gerrard because of his managerial credentials.

[Red Beret]

We won the league with Henderson as captain. We didn’t with Stevie. Henderson has been a better captain than Stevie ever was.

Different players. Gerrard was an outstanding individual talent who could raise the whole team and drag them over the line. Henderson never had Gerrard's raw talent, but he had guts, leadership and a great footballing brain.

Jordan excelled at being a big piece in an amazing machine that saw the whole become greater than the sum of it's parts. It's like comparing chalk and cheese.

Stick a young/peak Gerrard into the heart of a Klopp team, where he's free to do his thing and not carry the team, and he probably would have hit almost Messi-esque levels of skill.

[Raaphael]

So Naby Keita is more of a legend than Xabi Alonso? Nat Phillips more of a legend than Hyypia?

No. It’s not «direct logic» like that. But there are arguments that Henderson is a better leader than Gerrard ever was. I personally think so. Gerrard was a more talented player, but a better leader? Sometimes I got the impression Gerrard became moody and introverted in games. He lead «by example», but in body language? Not sure. And I can’t know for sure as I wasn’t on the pitch or in the dressing room.

But we’ve had our most successfull period since the 80s with Henderson as captain and as much as he has played in better teams than Gerrard, I honestly think Gerrard should at least got one league title over the line in some of the teams he played in.

[Red Beret]

No. It’s not «direct logic» like that. But there are arguments that Henderson is a better leader than Gerrard ever was. I personally think so. Gerrard was a more talented player, but a better leader? Sometimes I got the impression Gerrard became moody and introverted in games. He lead «by example», but in body language? Not sure. And I can’t know for sure as I wasn’t on the pitch or in the dressing room.

But we’ve had our most successfull period since the 80s with Henderson as captain and as much as he has played in better teams than Gerrard, I honestly think Gerrard should at least got one league title over the line in some of the teams he played in.

I would agree with that.

Both Gerrard and Henderson are leaders, but they have very different styles. In some ways, Gerrard was leader by default, whether he wanted it or not. He was a talisman who led from the front through his ability. I think the role was occasionally a burden for him, and sometimes it showed.

Henderson is more a classic leader. A general who anchors his troops and drives them forward, letting them use their talents whilst he covers them. Klopp said from the outset that he wanted a team of captains, but he chose Henderson to lead the line. It was all about building trust amongst teammates - one player doing his job knowing another is doing theirs, rather than trying to be everywhere at once or looking over their shoulder to check what someone else might be up to.

[markmywords]

Gerrard also played with Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Hyypia. I see no reason why we shouldn’t win the league in 08/09. City is a better team than Man Utd ever was.

the 08/09 had a number of great players, but then a large number of average or even below average PL players who we heavily relied upon, if you take 1 for example nabil el zhar, he made 15 PL appearances in 08/09, which is more games than he played for Morocco in his entire career

If you aren't good enough for Morocco, you shouldn't be good enough for a team that wants to win the PL, but such were our options, back in 2008.

 Hendo had far greater support in the squad,  United were super strong in 2009, with Teves, Rooney, berbatov and ronaldo as their options upfront whereas our back up striker was ngog, this hurt us as Torres was very frail that season, missing 14 league games.  Origi whilst not great back up either, wasn't needed as mane/salah/bobby all started well over 30 league games

[Raaphael]

United wasn’t stronger than City has been. Opinions, but I rate Henderson as a stronger captain than Gerrard. I think fans sometimes makes excuses for Gerrard and are blinded by the local factor. I remember when he publically said he wanted to go to Chelsea. If he wasn’t local I’m pretty sure that would happen.

[markmywords]

United wasn’t stronger than City has been. Opinions, but I rate Henderson as a stronger captain than Gerrard. I think fans sometimes makes excuses for Gerrard and are blinded by the local factor. I remember when he publically said he wanted to go to Chelsea. If he wasn’t local I’m pretty sure that would happen.

Whilst I agree, Hendo might be a greater capt, but if you put Hendo in the 2001 - 2011 LFC team instead of Gerrard we win less trophies, put Gerrard in LFC instead of hendo in LFC 2012 - 2022 and we win more trophies

Saying Gerrard should have won the league title in 2008/9 is silly talk IMO

[Raaphael]

Whilst I agree, Hendo might be a greater capt, but if you put Hendo in the 2001 - 2011 LFC team instead of Gerrard we win less trophies, put Gerrard in LFC instead of hendo in LFC 2012 - 2022 and we win more trophies

Saying Gerrard should have won more league titles in 2008/9 is silly talk IMO

That logic is not used with a player like Carragher. Put Carragher in a Klopp team with Van Dijk, Matip, Gomez at his peak and Konate and he wouldn’t play half the games he played. He’s still talked up as a legend. Locals are blinded by local players.

[classycarra]

No. It’s not «direct logic» like that. But there are arguments that Henderson is a better leader than Gerrard ever was. I personally think so. Gerrard was a more talented player, but a better leader? Sometimes I got the impression Gerrard became moody and introverted in games. He lead «by example», but in body language? Not sure. And I can’t know for sure as I wasn’t on the pitch or in the dressing room.

But we’ve had our most successfull period since the 80s with Henderson as captain and as much as he has played in better teams than Gerrard, I honestly think Gerrard should at least got one league title over the line in some of the teams he played in.

See I'm with you with a lot of this stuff, but the idea Gerrard 'should have won us a league' is really silly as is the conclusion that Hendo is a legend but Gerrard isn't. Hendo may (probably) be the better off-field captain, but that doesn't guarantee legend status. Also Hendo discussing a contract with the saudi state team is just as bad if not worse than Gerrard doing it with Chelsea (which you said marred his legend status)

I agree about moody Gerrard, and I think he was quite quiet and introverted (was a lead by example type) - but if you look at Hendo he's definitely moody. Just ask Trent, who always takes an earful from Hendo (usually after Hendo's fuck up, not Trent's).

That logic is not used with a player like Carragher. Put Carragher in a Klopp team with Van Dijk, Matip, Gomez at his peak and Konate and he wouldn’t play half the games he played. He’s still talked up as a legend. Locals are blinded by local players.

Nah you've lost me now, this is just stupidity. If you speak with locals you'll often find that they're the fiercest critics of local players (eg Trent and Curtis, Carragher pre-Rafa full back, Fowler's 'issues') etc.

Liverpool is practically a village, there's always some local (and not just evertonians or taxi drivers!) who knows someone who knows someone who reckons x player is a dick off the field. We had one of those on RAWK this year, some bellend saying shit about Trent's school teachers views. Saying locals are blindly biased and not as smart as you is a really bad reading of the way things are I reckon

[bird_lfc]

There’s already a video of him taking training going viral for the wrong reasons