Topic: Brexit - doesn't really seem to be a very good idea does it? (*)

[oldfordie]

Nice to see the House full to brimming for this most important of debates.

They all need culling.

I get the feeling many of them are scared to debate the complexities of the great repeal bill. Keir Starmer was brilliant. tore it to shreds. nice to see him come back with a simple dismissive reply to to squash Rees-Mogg and Cash little tantrums on the will of the people. lovely to see them sit down glumfaced.no cheering for talking s.. now.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I fucking hate Rees-Mogg and cannot understand how some of our members think that he is a sound fella who is just misunderstood.

[ShakaHislop]

I get the feeling many of them are scared to debate the complexities of the great repeal bill. Keir Starmer was brilliant. tore it to shreds. nice to see him come back with a simple dismissive reply to to squash Rees-Mogg and Cash little tantrums on the will of the people. lovely to see them sit down glumfaced.no cheering for talking s.. now.

Keir Starmer also said on BBC News at One that "the decision to leave the EU has already been taken, what we're now concerned is how that should be done"

It's infuriating how determined the majority of Labour is not to leave Remain as an option.

[Alan_X]

I fucking hate Rees-Mogg and cannot understand how some of our members think that he is a sound fella who is just misunderstood.

Who on here thinks that religious nutcase, misogynist and generally disgusting human being is 'sound'? is it the Boris effect? Just because they have a bumbling posh persona that seems amusing on TV doesn't stop them from being utter c*nts.

[oldfordie]

Keir Starmer also said on BBC News at One that "the decision to leave the EU has already been taken, what we're now concerned is how that should be done"

It's infuriating how determined the majority of Labour is not to leave Remain as an option.

Yeah I agree but this debate is happening so he has to be practical, he said something very interesting and am not sure what it actually means, the Torys want to have several different choices of dates for us to leave the EU, a Tory minister would have the power to choose the date we leave. I assume it's a slow stage by stage schedule. Starmer is arguing this choice should be made by parliament so he is fighting to keep our options open.
He's also fighting to keep our choices open to stay in the SM+CU as well as fighting the Henry V111 powers. to tell the truth he's shown he is in a different class when it comes to understanding Brexit, I doubt if many Torys fancy arguing with him after today.
Not many in the house right now but I found it interesting to hear total silence when Rees-Mogg+Cash kicked off on one of their will of the people soapbox speeches. 6 months ago they would have been cheered.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Who on here thinks that religious nutcase, misogynist and generally disgusting human being is 'sound'? is it the Boris effect? Just because they have a bumbling posh persona that seems amusing on TV doesn't stop them from being utter c*nts.

It must have been in this or the tory thread that I read it,I definitely read it on here though.

[oldfordie]

It must have been in this or the tory thread that I read it,I definitely read it on here though.

Maybe it was Rawks Rees-Mogg,fella who posted a Rees-Mogg video to make some point.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Maybe it was Rawks Rees-Mogg,fella who posted a Rees-Mogg video to make some point.

I honestly cannot remember what thread it was in.The general gist of it was that Mogg was misunderstood because of his upbringing and education & that he isn't really the total pompous and utter prick that he comes accross as.I could easilly have read it before I signed up because I cannot see me reading it and not replying had I been able.

I doubt that the poster would make the same defense after what the twat had to say the other day.

And as I type this Anna Soubry graces my tv screen. (OFF BUTTON)

[Red-Soldier]

Maybe it was Rawks Rees-Mogg,fella who posted a Rees-Mogg video to make some point.

Slow Rap came in here, posting utter bollocks, supported by some Rees-Mog quotes.  Hence their username has now been changed.

[killer-heels]

Probably. The database is a bit of a maze though.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/data/database

Thanks. It is a bit of a maze.

[oldfordie]

Slow Rap came in here, posting utter bollocks, supported by some Rees-Mog quotes.  Hence their username has now been changed.

Yeah, I couldn't remember his original username but as you say it got changed for him after posting a video. didn't stop him from posting though so must have taken it as a compliment

[hide5seek]

I honestly cannot remember what thread it was in.The general gist of it was that Mogg was misunderstood because of his upbringing and education & that he isn't really the total pompous and utter prick that he comes accross as.I could easilly have read it before I signed up because I cannot see me reading it and not replying had I been able.

I doubt that the poster would make the same defense after what the twat had to say the other day.

And as I type this Anna Soubry graces my tv screen. (OFF BUTTON)

He's a pick and mix christian. The worst sort and the biggest hypocrite. Happy to pontificate about abortion and happy enough to put his foot on the necks of the poor and disabled.

[Commie Bobbie]

He's a pick and mix christian. The worst sort and the biggest hypocrite. Happy to pontificate about abortion and happy enough to put his foot on the necks of the poor and disabled.

Ugh. Fucking despise them.

[killer-heels]

The boss of JLR said tarrifs are going to cost them £1bn and we need a transitional deal. What I dont understand is the number of companies and in particular motor manufacturers that have commited to building things in the UK when its guaranteed to have tarrifs post Brexit?

Are they confident of a transitional deal? Can those decisions be rescinded pretty quickly? It seems to me that if they were to announce descisions to build elsewhere then nothing would scare the government and its people more than that?

[Red-Soldier]

The boss of JLR said tarrifs are going to cost them £1bn and we need a transitional deal. What I dont understand is the number of companies and in particular motor manufacturers that have commited to building things in the UK when its guaranteed to have tarrifs post Brexit?

Are they confident of a transitional deal? Can those decisions be rescinded pretty quickly? It seems to me that if they were to announce descisions to build elsewhere then nothing would scare the government and its people more than that?

I think they've been promised huge backhanders.

[ShakaHislop]

Tory MPs issue Brexit transition warning

Dozens of Tory MPs are warning ministers not to use a post-Brexit transitional period to stay in the EU "by stealth".

They say to remain in the EU's single market during the transition would be a "historic mistake".

The Eurosceptic MPs' concerns are revealed in a letter seen by the BBC.

Chancellor Philip Hammond has already said the UK will quit the EU's single market and customs union when it leaves in March 2019.

A so-called transitional period, after the UK leaves the EU but before new arrangements come into force, is intended to avoid a "cliff-edge" scenario for businesses and citizens.

The government has said this must come to an end by June 2022, when the next general election is due, and is hoping for a new free trade deal to replace the UK's single market membership.

Unlike the government, Labour has said it would keep the UK in the single market and customs union for a transitional period which would be "as short as possible but as long as necessary".

Speaking in the Commons on Thursday morning, Brexit Secretary David Davis said Labour's proposals would be "the worst of all outcomes".

The MPs' letter has been obtained by BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg, who says it is designed to send a message to ministers "not to soften the government's plans".

One source told her it was a warning to "people like Hammond who think the election result means a softer Brexit".

But a Remain-supporting MP said the signatories were trying to "tie the government's hands on any transitional deal, destroying any chance of continuing the benefits of the customs union and the single market".

Already signed by nearly 40 Conservatives, it was drawn up for publication in a Sunday newspaper.

It says: "Continued membership of the single market, even as part of a transitional arrangement, would quite simply mean EU membership by another name - and we cannot allow our country to be kept in the EU by stealth.

"The government must respect the will of the British people, and that means leaving the Single Market at the same time as we leave the EU."

It says the single market is a "political project", adding: "Therefore, the longer one remains a member, the harder it is to leave.

"Contrary to claims that it is a 'sensible' stepping stone to independence, it is in fact a conveyer belt to ever more European integration."

The letter also demands that the government adds clauses to any transition deal to establish a "clearly-defined timetable" for leaving the single market and customs union.

It also calls for the UK to be able to "unilaterally withdraw" from the transitional deal.

"We need to be sure that our own government is in charge of the deal - not the EU - and that the deal won't become permanent."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41187051

[Alan_X]

Jesus wept. They are fanatics.

[oldfordie]

Tory MPs issue Brexit transition warning

Dozens of Tory MPs are warning ministers not to use a post-Brexit transitional period to stay in the EU "by stealth".

They say to remain in the EU's single market during the transition would be a "historic mistake".

The Eurosceptic MPs' concerns are revealed in a letter seen by the BBC.

Chancellor Philip Hammond has already said the UK will quit the EU's single market and customs union when it leaves in March 2019.

A so-called transitional period, after the UK leaves the EU but before new arrangements come into force, is intended to avoid a "cliff-edge" scenario for businesses and citizens.

The government has said this must come to an end by June 2022, when the next general election is due, and is hoping for a new free trade deal to replace the UK's single market membership.

Unlike the government, Labour has said it would keep the UK in the single market and customs union for a transitional period which would be "as short as possible but as long as necessary".

Speaking in the Commons on Thursday morning, Brexit Secretary David Davis said Labour's proposals would be "the worst of all outcomes".

The MPs' letter has been obtained by BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg, who says it is designed to send a message to ministers "not to soften the government's plans".

One source told her it was a warning to "people like Hammond who think the election result means a softer Brexit".

But a Remain-supporting MP said the signatories were trying to "tie the government's hands on any transitional deal, destroying any chance of continuing the benefits of the customs union and the single market".

Already signed by nearly 40 Conservatives, it was drawn up for publication in a Sunday newspaper.

It says: "Continued membership of the single market, even as part of a transitional arrangement, would quite simply mean EU membership by another name - and we cannot allow our country to be kept in the EU by stealth.

"The government must respect the will of the British people, and that means leaving the Single Market at the same time as we leave the EU."

It says the single market is a "political project", adding: "Therefore, the longer one remains a member, the harder it is to leave.

"Contrary to claims that it is a 'sensible' stepping stone to independence, it is in fact a conveyer belt to ever more European integration."

The letter also demands that the government adds clauses to any transition deal to establish a "clearly-defined timetable" for leaving the single market and customs union.

It also calls for the UK to be able to "unilaterally withdraw" from the transitional deal.

"We need to be sure that our own government is in charge of the deal - not the EU - and that the deal won't become permanent."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41187051

Thats the only argument they have now to justify their disastrous hard Brexit, it's the will of the British people.
The fact they were promised many other things has been brushed under the carpet.

[Red-Soldier]

Jesus wept. They are fanatics.

They really are!!

Now that they've conned the not so bright British public into voting to Leave, they will not let this go whatsoever!

They've been waiting for this moment for 40 years, even Thatcher couldn't silence the Rabid Loons and she wasn't exactly moderate! There's no way they will let this slip, it's their Utopia!

[killer-heels]

That fucking idiot Kirsty Wark has just spent 80% of her interview on Newsnight with Hilary Benn and some random Tory attacking Benn and the Labour position on the leaked Tory immigration paper, whilst not saying anything about it to the knob Tory sitting next to him. She also let the Tory off for the accusation he made that the signed document by the Hardline Brexiteers was not against the government but actually against the Labour position.

I am certainly not one of those who complains about media bias but fucking hell that was a shocking performance by Wark.

[Red-Soldier]

That fucking idiot Kirsty Wark has just spent 80% of her interview on Newsnight with Hilary Benn and some random Tory attacking Benn and the Labour position on the leaked Tory immigration paper, whilst not saying anything about it to the knob Tory sitting next to him. She also let the Tory off for the accusation he made that the signed document by the Hardline Brexiteers was not against the government but actually against the Labour position.

I am certainly not one of those who complains about media bias but fucking hell that was a shocking performance by Wark.

Me neither, but, the BBC continue to be shocking in regards to the Brexit coverage!

It's not exactly difficult to pick apart all the "reasons" why we should leave the EU.  The consisantly fail to point out all the Brexiteer's bullshit!!  What hope does the average, unengaged, layman have, when the so-called "neutral" BBC does not give a factual stance of biggest issues this country has faced for many years!

[killer-heels]

Me neither, but, the BBC continue to be shocking in regards to the Brexit coverage!

It's not exactly difficult to pick apart all the "reasons" why we should leave the EU.  The consisantly fail to point out all the Brexiteer's bullshit!!  What hope does the average, unengaged, layman have, when the so-called "neutral" BBC does not give a factual stance of biggest issues this country has faced for many years!

Its not just Brexit. Newsnight has had an agenda for a while and thats illustrated with their coverage for European elections. They were terrible with the Dutch elections and for the German ones their first stop was at the AFD and since then they havent reported on any other aspect of it.

[hide5seek]

Big business is the problem, particulrly international corporations, not the BBC (though they d tend to led by thir fear of the right wing.
If big business came out and said it won't invest once we leave the EU (which it probably won't), brexit would be finished over night.

[Red-Soldier]

Big business is the problem, particulrly international corporations, not the BBC (though they d tend to led by thir fear of the right wing.
If big business came out and said it won't invest once we leave the EU (which it probably won't), brexit would be finished over night.

I believe many are hoping for a "race to the bottom" economy though, with huge tax incentives, "relaxed" / non-existant labour laws etc..

They are waiting to see what unfolds.

[PaulF]

I'd assumed the love for rees moog was ironic or something.

[rafathegaffa83]

The letter begging the FTSE 100 leaders to publicly back Brexit is one of the most cringeworthy, embarassing and pathetic stunts to come out of this whole affair

[PaulF]

The letter begging the FTSE 100 leaders to publicly back Brexit is one of the most cringeworthy, embarassing and pathetic stunts to come out of this whole affair

Do you think they bothered to 'sound' out the FTSE 100, if next to none of them come out to back it , there's going to be so much egg on face.

I can't imagine many FTSE 'companies' feeling it's a good move from an economic sense, and given their often global nature, it can't be good for PR.
Some (possibly many) I know have benefited from a weak pound (earnings overseas), but if the shareholders are global, then they'll have to exchange the earnings back, so it's not good.

[ShakaHislop]

I know it's much to expect a Plan A from Labour these days, let alone a Plan B but what will they do if the repeal bill goes through unamended, as the Article 50 bill did? Shrug their shoulders and talk about a socialist executive power grab if Labour get elected, rather than a big, bad capitalist Tory *boo hiss* one?

[ShakaHislop]

Labour whips reporting "a number" of its MPs threatening to abstain if told Monday to vote against the Brexit Bill. Will a few vote for it?

https://twitter.com/Kevin_Maguire/status/905112865220255744

[ShakaHislop]

Anti-Brexit marchers rally in Parliament Square

Thousands of protesters in favour of the UK staying in the European Union have marched in Westminster.

The People's March for Europe took a route through central London before a rally in Parliament Square.

Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable said there were a growing number of people worried about Brexit's impact.

The march comes ahead of MPs voting on Monday on a bill to overturn the act which took the UK into the EU and end the supremacy of EU law in the UK.

Remainers - many dressed in blue and yellow outfits and draped in EU flags - amassed outside Parliament on Saturday afternoon.

Many carried "Exit from Brexit" placards or wore "Remoaner Till I Die" t-shirts.

Former Liberal Democrat cabinet minister Sir Ed Davey told the crowd he had "gone from anger to distress, from fury to despair.

"Since the Brexit negotiations begun there's a third emotion I've been feeling - embarrassment.

"Embarrassment at our country's leaders. Embarrassment for Great Britain."

One marcher, wearing a blue beret emblazoned with yellow stars told the BBC she had joined the rally because she felt: "Totally violated by the idea of Brexiting.

"I've lived, worked and loved in Europe for years. My whole existence has been a European existence," she said.

"My husband has a business in Europe. We worked for years to build this up. What's going to happen to that?"

'Tin ear' government

One man, holding a home-made placard, said. "I don't believe people really knew what they were voting for.

"Since (the referendum) I've felt more and more frustrated. Those people who led the campaign to leave didn't really have a clue what they were intending to do.

"We keep being told those who voted to Remain have largely changed their minds but I don't believe that at all."

One woman added she was there "to stand up against the awful right-wing agenda Brexit is bringing to our country".

Sir Vince told the BBC growing numbers of people wanted the UK to keep its links with the European Union and this was the beginning of a "loud and powerful" movement.

"They (the government) are not listening - they've got tin ear," he said.

'Exit from Brexit'

"They're making a complete mess of these negotiations - totally disunited, dysfunctional, a lack of preparation.

"Even if you believe in Brexit you must be in despair at the way they're approaching these negotiations."

He said the Lib Dems would working with other MPs towards another vote - on an "exit from Brexit".

He said the European project; the customs union; the single market; combined research and a common approach on the environment all "mattered" to Britain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41212505

[ShakaHislop]

I went to the march in March on the Saturday before Article 50 was triggered, but wasn't aware of this happening though I'm glad someone is still organising them.

[Currywurst]

I went to the march in March on the Saturday before Article 50 was triggered, but wasn't aware of this happening though I'm glad someone is still organising them.

There's also a day of action for EU citizens' rights (EU citizens here and UK citizens in other EU countries) next Wednesday, including a mass party lobbying session followed by a demonstration in Trafalgar Square set up by organisations like The 3 Million, British in Europe, UNISON, Migrants' Rights Network, Another Europe is Possible and European Alternatives. More info here: www.the3million.org.uk. Last week public sector workers, McNasty's staff andthe  anti-Brexit demo. Next week EU citizens. It would seem the number of visible vocal objectors to current Tory policies is on the increase.

On a different tack, it was heartening to see so many EU flags at the Last Nights of the Proms. Must have raised a few hackles among the Rule Britannia brigade

[stoa]

Haha... David Owen is great. He's on CNN arguing how Brexit is good and then casually says that he has a house in Greece... What a twat...

[Trada]

[The Gulleysucker]

I'm glad for you to be able to reduce such complexities to a simplistic gif meme, one that naturally exhonerates the position of your blessed St Jeremy, and that treats us all as idiots who don't understand any of it. I just love being treated as a simpleton who doesn't understand any of this.

So I sincerely hope you'll be happy with the consequences of this, especially when it impacts on everyones lives, and probably with a greater impact than the Thatcher years, as you really won't be able to blaim the neo-liberal Blairites then....but there again, I expect Paul Mason will probably find some way to pass the blame...

Political Pygmies, all of them.

[TepidT2O]

This thread has been too painful to read..


The stupidity of the whole situation is one I'm trying to ignore now...

It's just too much,..

[jillcwhomever]

Goodbye democracy. 

[killer-heels]

This thread has been too painful to read..


The stupidity of the whole situation is one I'm trying to ignore now...

It's just too much,..

Its not getting overturned now anyway so there isnt any point bothering with it.

[The Gulleysucker]

Goodbye democracy. 

Relax.

As soon as Labour are in power after the next election, the very first legislation they will introduce, and with haste, will be one to roll back any of these powers...

Aren't you convinced?

[jillcwhomever]

Relax.

As soon as Labour are in power after the next election, the very first legislation they will introduce, and with haste, will be one to roll back any of these powers...

Aren't you convinced?

No.