Topic: Roberto Firmino

[Caligula?]

My mind has changed on a lot of issues this season, and I now appreciate Firmino more than ever before, despite his struggles. None of our forwards are on top of their game right now. Salah’s impressive record and potential golden boot this season disguise the fact that he misses 9 clearcut chances out of 10, and he can’t hit a barnyard door with a barge pole in a knock out game when we really need him to score.  So maybe some rest and a stint in the Europa League will do them all some good, Bobby included. In fact, I’d sooner sell Salah than Bobby. Bearing the Crystal Palace performance in mind, Salah’s goals in that game were not essential but Bobby’s and Minamino’s certainly were. Bobby is the player with the most harmonious effect on the team, and that to me is worth more than a forward’s golden boot in a season where the team wins nothing and fails to finish in the top 4.

I'll have some of what you're having

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Yeah how dare anyone point fingers at our #9 who has 15 goals in his last 68 PL games and has contributed to our awful form over the last 15 games or so.

This is the problem with individual analysis - it is the disease that says:  "if only we replace this one baddie over here, everything will be alright".  This is not the case.

Bobby creates 4 clear cut scoring chances today and gets shit on  -- next time you spew your stats how about putting into a team context -- as Jurgen has already said that his responsibilities far exceed just goal scoring.   

While you are at it --- why not look at Sadio and Mo's  shots on goal per goal --- and see if they have had some decline too?   Maybe post this in the main thread so no LFC player has to carry the burden of everyone's disappointment.

[Ray K]

@DanKennett
Firmino & Mane are a combined 14 goals from 157 shots in the EPL this season.
27 big chances missed.
Combined XG of 24 for their shots so they are TEN goals under.

[mkferdy]

Him, Fab, vvd,Allison and both fullbacks are the untouchables. Hendo too obviously.

Completely agree.

[wah00ey]

He isn't shite.  No way.

But he most certainly played shite today.

[west_london_red]

My mind has changed on a lot of issues this season, and I now appreciate Firmino more than ever before, despite his struggles. None of our forwards are on top of their game right now. Salah’s impressive record and potential golden boot this season disguise the fact that he misses 9 clearcut chances out of 10, and he can’t hit a barnyard door with a barge pole in a knock out game when we really need him to score.  So maybe some rest and a stint in the Europa League will do them all some good, Bobby included. In fact, I’d sooner sell Salah than Bobby. Bearing the Crystal Palace performance in mind, Salah’s goals in that game were not essential but Bobby’s and Minamino’s certainly were. Bobby is the player with the most harmonious effect on the team, and that to me is worth more than a forward’s golden boot in a season where the team wins nothing and fails to finish in the top 4.

Seriously, WTF are you on?

[smig]

My mind has changed on a lot of issues this season, and I now appreciate Firmino more than ever before, despite his struggles. None of our forwards are on top of their game right now. Salah’s impressive record and potential golden boot this season disguise the fact that he misses 9 clearcut chances out of 10, and he can’t hit a barnyard door with a barge pole in a knock out game when we really need him to score.  So maybe some rest and a stint in the Europa League will do them all some good, Bobby included. In fact, I’d sooner sell Salah than Bobby. Bearing the Crystal Palace performance in mind, Salah’s goals in that game were not essential but Bobby’s and Minamino’s certainly were. Bobby is the player with the most harmonious effect on the team, and that to me is worth more than a forward’s golden boot in a season where the team wins nothing and fails to finish in the top 4.

Sorry mate, you're talking through your arse. Nobody questions what he's done in the past for us, but he's been consistently poor for at least a year. Harmonious effect on the team when he's misplacing five yards passes routinely. I'm all for loyalty but he's been dire for ages

[wemmick]

@DanKennett
Firmino & Mane are a combined 14 goals from 157 shots in the EPL this season.
27 big chances missed.
Combined XG of 24 for their shots so they are TEN goals under.

And likely missing out on the Champion’s League as a result. Firmino is done at this level. He has been a terrific player for us, but it’s over.

[CalgarianRed]

My mind has changed on a lot of issues this season, and I now appreciate Firmino more than ever before, despite his struggles. None of our forwards are on top of their game right now. Salah’s impressive record and potential golden boot this season disguise the fact that he misses 9 clearcut chances out of 10, and he can’t hit a barnyard door with a barge pole in a knock out game when we really need him to score.  So maybe some rest and a stint in the Europa League will do them all some good, Bobby included. In fact, I’d sooner sell Salah than Bobby. Bearing the Crystal Palace performance in mind, Salah’s goals in that game were not essential but Bobby’s and Minamino’s certainly were. Bobby is the player with the most harmonious effect on the team, and that to me is worth more than a forward’s golden boot in a season where the team wins nothing and fails to finish in the top 4.

What's wrong with people suggesting to sell by far our best player (along with VVD)? Staggering going such lengths to defend a player.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

He isn't shite.  No way.

But he most certainly played shite today.

No he did not -- he was a mixed bag;  he had some glorious feeds into Jota, Mane and Salah for real goal opportunities.

His shooting, and a few decisions in possession struggled, but he was in position for the first 70 minutes (and then played up top) and was a factor in us winning the ball back 3-5 times during his stint at attack mid.   

Anyone else on the team create 4 clear cut chances to score and should have been buried?   He was better than Jota or Mane -- but you all need a fucking scapegoat.

[Funky_Gibbons]

@DanKennett
Firmino & Mane are a combined 14 goals from 157 shots in the EPL this season.
27 big chances missed.
Combined XG of 24 for their shots so they are TEN goals under.

This is the first ‘bad patch’ Mane has had since he’s been here and he usually outperforms his xG so he still has credit in the bank. Firmino has consistently underperformed his xG and it’s getting worse.

We need to have two of our front three scoring regularly, Mane deserves more time.

[Dench57]

In fact, I’d sooner sell Salah than Bobby.

Won't be many posts that can beat this one today!

[Morgana]

Won't be many posts that can beat this one today!

Yeah, controversial, I get it. But I also think the idea that if Salah weren’t in the team goals would’ve dried up completely and we’d be fighting relegation is an over simplistic view. There are no certainties. In such a scenario other parts of the team might’ve stepped up or raised their game, like  2 years ago when Bobby and Salah were unavailable and we beat Barcelona 4-0. I remember being so attached to Fernando Torres I couldn’t see the wood from the trees.  But for all his goals and the positive vibes he created (because we loved him that much), we still won nothing with him.  It doesn’t make sense to get rid of your top goal scorer, I know.  But there’s just too many variables to speak in absolutes.

[Pistolero]

Yeah, controversial, I get it.

No, just a load of rancid old pony...

[Samie]

He doesn't need to be shown the door, just the bench.

[OOS]

He doesn't need to be shown the door, just the bench.

Hed probably miss it. 

[Samie]

No-look look to the bench?

[Cu Chulainn]

In fact, I’d sooner sell Salah than Bobby.

Firmino has been one of my favourite players but my God, even at his best this would've been a mad shout.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

My mind has changed on a lot of issues this season, and I now appreciate Firmino more than ever before, despite his struggles. None of our forwards are on top of their game right now. Salah’s impressive record and potential golden boot this season disguise the fact that he misses 9 clearcut chances out of 10, and he can’t hit a barnyard door with a barge pole in a knock out game when we really need him to score.  So maybe some rest and a stint in the Europa League will do them all some good, Bobby included. In fact, I’d sooner sell Salah than Bobby. Bearing the Crystal Palace performance in mind, Salah’s goals in that game were not essential but Bobby’s and Minamino’s certainly were. Bobby is the player with the most harmonious effect on the team, and that to me is worth more than a forward’s golden boot in a season where the team wins nothing and fails to finish in the top 4.

I'd advise you to start following a new sport.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

No, just a load of rancid old pony...

He's consistent with his absolute god awful takes on all things football

[JRed]

Maybe he should just try his ‘no look shooting’ every time cos he can’t shoot for shit when he’s looking. I have honestly never seen any footballer at any level with a weaker shot. I know he has other attributes but I really don’t understand how a professional footballer can have such a weak shot.

[decosabute]

My posting history will show how much I love/have loved Bobby as a player, but I honestly thought he was appalling today. He still put in a shift and played the odd decent pass, but given how many times he received the ball in space for once (us no longer being a counter attack team and him thus not being allowed any space in most games is one of the reasons why he's declined IMO), I thought he was incredibly slow-thinking and wasteful.

He's never been the quickest either, but he looks like he's running in absolute treacle lately.

Being shattered mentally and physically has perhaps been over-used as an excuse for many of our players this season, but Bobby really does look like that to me. The speed of thought and zip over 5 yards is totally gone. I just hope to christ that a break this summer can help fix it, rather than it being a terminal decline, because this is hard to watch.

[farawayred]

I'll put my neck out. Firmino wasn't great today by any stretch of the imagination, but I thought that playing with Salah, Mane and Jota was very promising. We didn't have the chance to see that often, but it was better that with Salah and Mane only. If Jota and Mane, and Salah for that matter, had their shooting boots today, people would have been talking differently about Bobby. He may bear partial responsibility for our misfiring front line, but he is the least of the problems.

[Zoomers]

Would rather drop you, keep Shaq and play Bobby

I have nude pictures of Klopp so good luck with that.

[Morgana]

Hed probably miss it.

[Morgana]

I'll put my neck out. Firmino wasn't great today by any stretch of the imagination, but I thought that playing with Salah, Mane and Jota was very promising. We didn't have the chance to see that often, but it was better that with Salah and Mane only. If Jota and Mane, and Salah for that matter, had their shooting boots today, people would have been talking differently about Bobby. He may bear partial responsibility for our misfiring front line, but he is the least of the problems.

I agree with this. Also, am not a big fan of playing all 4 strikers at once. Three is enough. Someone needs to get dropped from time to time to keep them competing  for their place. Plus squad rotation

[Fromola]

My mind has changed on a lot of issues this season, and I now appreciate Firmino more than ever before, despite his struggles. None of our forwards are on top of their game right now. Salah’s impressive record and potential golden boot this season disguise the fact that he misses 9 clearcut chances out of 10, and he can’t hit a barnyard door with a barge pole in a knock out game when we really need him to score.  So maybe some rest and a stint in the Europa League will do them all some good, Bobby included. In fact, I’d sooner sell Salah than Bobby. Bearing the Crystal Palace performance in mind, Salah’s goals in that game were not essential but Bobby’s and Minamino’s certainly were. Bobby is the player with the most harmonious effect on the team, and that to me is worth more than a forward’s golden boot in a season where the team wins nothing and fails to finish in the top 4.

What's killed Bobby this year is Mane's fall from grace. If Mane and Salah were both on it in terms of goals and performance (and Jota while he's been fit) then Bobby can relax more in his team player role, even if he's not the player he was.

We just can't carry a number 9 who isn't scoring when Mane can't hit a barndoor either and the midfield or centre backs aren't chipping in.

[decosabute]

What's killed Bobby this year is Mane's fall from grace. If Mane and Salah were both on it in terms of goals and performance (and Jota while he's been fit) then Bobby can relax more in his team player role, even if he's not the player he was.

We just can't carry a number 9 who isn't scoring when Mane can't hit a barndoor either and the midfield or centre backs aren't chipping in.

I understand this point, but I feel like there's more than this going on.

Yes some of his finishing lately is bafflingly bad - that moment early against Leeds where he gets there before the keeper and instead of lifting it over him, just kicks it straight out for a goal kick was bizarre but not surprising. Overall though, I don't really mind Bobby not scoring as long as he looks sharp and I can see the touch and speed of thought are there.

But he moves so slowly now and his first touch is noticeably poorer (it was genuinely atrocious in the second half today). Mostly though, it's how labored his decision making is. Firmino at his best would move the ball quickly or react like lightning to us winning the ball with pressing. I just think today and in some of the recent performances, he's startlingly poor in this aspect. He chews the ball and then wastes it or goes for the wrong option time and time again. Looks absolutely jaded to me.

[Simplexity]

Yeah, controversial, I get it. But I also think the idea that if Salah weren’t in the team goals would’ve dried up completely and we’d be fighting relegation is an over simplistic view. There are no certainties. In such a scenario other parts of the team might’ve stepped up or raised their game, like  2 years ago when Bobby and Salah were unavailable and we beat Barcelona 4-0. I remember being so attached to Fernando Torres I couldn’t see the wood from the trees.  But for all his goals and the positive vibes he created (because we loved him that much), we still won nothing with him.  It doesn’t make sense to get rid of your top goal scorer, I know.  But there’s just too many variables to speak in absolutes.

No team has ever been better off by getting rid a guaranteed 20 goal a season attacker. You mention Torres, but we hardly improved when we sold him did we? Same with Suarez, when we sold him the entire team went to absolute shit.

[bornandbRED]

He just does.... nothing anymore

[AmSeeker]

Like Alexis Sanchez when he reached 29 he was done as a top player at the peak - it was all down hill.

Firmino over the past few years has worked incredibly hard for the team, looks like it's took his toll on him. Arsene Wenger once said all players have a set milage in them, and if they start young they usually are finished younger too. He's barely been injured, played nearly every game, and the miles on the clock massive.

[Passmaster Molby]

Like Sadio, another player at 29 with two years left on his deal. Decision time looms and I think it’s time to move him on and get some money in for him. Been a class player for us but his decline is startling and is of real concern long term. If a decent bid comes in I would move him on and look to possibly change the way we play in attack as we will struggle to find someone who plays like Bobby.

[Morgana]

Like Alexis Sanchez when he reached 29 he was done as a top player at the peak - it was all down hill.

Firmino over the past few years has worked incredibly hard for the team, looks like it's took his toll on him. Arsene Wenger once said all players have a set milage in them, and if they start young they usually are finished younger too. He's barely been injured, played nearly every game, and the miles on the clock massive.

You make a good point here. I always liked Arsene Wenger; struck me as very wise in all of his views on football matters.

No team has ever been better off by getting rid a guaranteed 20 goal a season attacker. You mention Torres, but we hardly improved when we sold him did we? Same with Suarez, when we sold him the entire team went to absolute shit.

Surely this proves my point that relying on one man to be your main goalscorer is the path to failure. It wasn't just the selling of Torres/Suarez that harmed us. If somebody (Torres) got injured on international duty we were fucked. If somebody got suspended (Suarez) for a string of games we were even more fucked. Other than Gerrard and a few other stalwarts in midfield and defence we didn't have as many great players then as we do now.

Yes, I think the current team needs a bit of a reboot, but I never actually said I wanted to sell Salah... Just that if I had to choose between keeping either him or Firmino I would keep the latter, take the wad of cash we would get for the former, and maybe invest it in a younger player with hunger to prove himself, or one with a more clinical eye for goal who can be coached to put away a higher percentage of those chances we keep missing every game.

Part of the problem this season is this team has already won most things at club level and most of them don't seem to have that ruthless, insatiable hunger of, say, the Real Madrid team that won 3 CLs in a row, or the City team that walked the league one year and then fought tooth and nail with us to defend their title in the 2018-19 season. Our boys are not failing on purpose; it's partly that they're just shattered and partly that human nature is what it is.

[67CherryRed]

We won't get a massive fee for him, but i'm sure he's on a tidy wage and we need that off the books.

Bobby's been the most loveable in a squad of loveable players, but there can't be room for sentiment. I think he'd do a cracking job somewhere like Barca for a few years, he deserves a good move and to spend his final years at a good level.

If we start next season with the same front three it'll be a huge mistake.

[lukeb1981]

Its actually mental seeing him not being able to pass 5 yards or strike a ball with any more power then a 5 year old.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Oh, the sad state of supporters opinions voiced in a thread meant to a be a monument for our Bobby.  And when confronted, even some hardened posters themselves profess love, but think he should be put out to pasture. Too all of those who claim to love the Bobby from the past but can no longer stomach the current Bobby or the future one, you cannot have one foot in Up the Reds when things are going well, and one foot up his backside when the team does not perform - using him as a scapegoat and statistics as the standard.

I am truly ashamed to share a message board with some of you - the glee in scapegoating and distorting games, as well as entire seasons of performance. 

Too many here are letting Bobby walk alone in this -- embarrassing regardless of what the future holds.

[harryc]

Oh, the sad state of supporters opinions voiced in a thread meant to a be a monument for our Bobby.  And when confronted, even some hardened posters themselves profess love, but think he should be put out to pasture. Too all of those who claim to love the Bobby from the past but can no longer stomach the current Bobby or the future one, you cannot have one foot in Up the Reds when things are going well, and one foot up his backside when the team does not perform - using him as a scapegoat and statistics as the standard.

I am truly ashamed to share a message board with some of you - the glee in scapegoating and distorting games, as well as entire seasons of performance. 

Too many here are letting Bobby walk alone in this -- embarrassing regardless of what the future holds.

You are a bit odd with your obsession support the team not your favourite player you are too old surely.

[67CherryRed]

Oh, the sad state of supporters opinions voiced in a thread meant to a be a monument for our Bobby.  And when confronted, even some hardened posters themselves profess love, but think he should be put out to pasture. Too all of those who claim to love the Bobby from the past but can no longer stomach the current Bobby or the future one, you cannot have one foot in Up the Reds when things are going well, and one foot up his backside when the team does not perform - using him as a scapegoat and statistics as the standard.

I am truly ashamed to share a message board with some of you - the glee in scapegoating and distorting games, as well as entire seasons of performance. 

Too many here are letting Bobby walk alone in this -- embarrassing regardless of what the future holds.

This isn't mean to be a 'monument' you absolute danger.

[4pool]

Trend..no worries. The one man who's opinion counts still know what Bobby offers. He's the only one who's opinion counts.

“Bobby is a complete footballer,” the manager said. “A football team is like an orchestra, you have different people for different instruments. Some of them are louder than others but they are all important for the rhythm. Bobby plays something like 12 instruments in our orchestra. He’s very important. We can play well without him as well but I certainly want him on the pitch and if you look at the numbers, I like having him on the pitch a lot.

There's a mantra towards Bobby by some. You won't change their minds.

All one can do is remind others, before they turn to the dark side, what Bobby really offers and why Jurgen picks him. For those who think Jurgen picks on sentiment , they do Jurgen a disfavor.

And fwiw, Bobby is still Boss and very integral to the team.

[aw1991]

You are a bit odd with your obsession support the team not your favourite player you are too old surely.

Don't think it's weird supporting a player who has given us so many great moments.