Author Topic: Today's shooting - The Sandy Hook Memorial Thread - Thoughts and Prayers  (Read 535235 times)

Offline Chakan

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #400 on: June 13, 2016, 02:45:23 pm »
Quote
It was a terrorist...whether he obtained guns illegally or not is irrelevant. American Gun laws don't apply.. The only thing that would have stopped this act of terror was an armed citizen.

And this is why nothing will ever change.

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #401 on: June 13, 2016, 05:46:28 pm »
It's interesting that no one seems to be concerned about the LGBTQ hate crime. That lasted about a day.

It's all gun control and Muslim hysteria now.
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Offline AaronSingh25

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #402 on: June 13, 2016, 07:09:01 pm »
It's interesting that no one seems to be concerned about the LGBTQ hate crime. That lasted about a day.

It's all gun control and Muslim hysteria now.

To be honest, watching the American based news channels, it isn't even gun control hysteria. The sole focus is on muslim hysteria, as well as giving so much bloody air time to Donald Drumpf (so much to the point you are almost legitmising what he is saying).

Gun control debate , or an attack on the LBGT community isn't even an issue if you go by the American media this morning.

Definately for another topic, but it's about time America addressed the shocking levels of homophobia in some states.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 07:11:02 pm by AaronSingh25 »

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #403 on: June 13, 2016, 07:29:40 pm »
This is so sad. Just been reading about some of the victims in tears, they had all their lives in front of them and some nutter kills them because they're Gay. What sort of fucked up world is it that you're shot for your sexuality, what sort fucked up place allows assault rifles to be bought so easily. Really fucking angry about this.
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #404 on: June 13, 2016, 07:46:46 pm »
It's interesting that no one seems to be concerned about the LGBTQ hate crime. That lasted about a day.

It's all gun control and Muslim hysteria now.
Maybe I don't know enough to pass comment but am not sure it's such a good idea to highlight the LGBTQ connection. it's not about LGBTQ rights and cracking down on prejudice. highlighting it may only give other nutters ideas.
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #405 on: June 13, 2016, 08:01:23 pm »
To be honest, watching the American based news channels, it isn't even gun control hysteria. The sole focus is on muslim hysteria, as well as giving so much bloody air time to Donald Drumpf (so much to the point you are almost legitmising what he is saying).

Gun control debate , or an attack on the LBGT community isn't even an issue if you go by the American media this morning.

In this case, the LGBT community being targeted is inextricably linked to fundamentalist Islam.

What sort of fucked up world is it that you're shot for your sexuality

The same fucked up world that sees people shot/blown up/trapped in burning skyscrapers for merely living in a western country that doesn't embrace that manual-for-shitforbrainses.


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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #406 on: June 13, 2016, 08:43:50 pm »
In this case, the LGBT community being targeted is inextricably linked to fundamentalist Islam.

The same fucked up world that sees people shot/blown up/trapped in burning skyscrapers for merely living in a western country that doesn't embrace that manual-for-shitforbrainses.



This attack could just as easily have been perpetrated by a 7th generation American fundamentalist ( emphasis on mentalist) Christian.
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #407 on: June 13, 2016, 08:44:20 pm »
The vigil in old Compton street is quite something
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #408 on: June 13, 2016, 08:45:50 pm »
This attack could just as easily have been perpetrated by a 7th generation American fundamentalist ( emphasis on mentalist) Christian.

Well you did have the Westboro Baptist Church praising the gunman, so there is that.

Offline Weby72.

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #409 on: June 13, 2016, 08:49:39 pm »
This attack could just as easily have been perpetrated by a 7th generation American fundamentalist ( emphasis on mentalist) Christian.

Yes it could. But it wasn't. It - and a steadily climbing catalogue of mass-murders - was committed by a Muslim fundamentalist pertaining to be acting in the name of Islam.

Offline coolbyrne

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #410 on: June 13, 2016, 08:50:34 pm »
And this is why nothing will ever change.

Especially when there WAS a citizen with a gun, and he was trained. There was a police officer already engaging in gunfire with the gunman before the full force came in. Oh, I know the reply to this-  "We need MORE people wih guns then!"

Jesus. All this senseless loss so someone can own a weapon designed solely to kill a human being.
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #411 on: June 13, 2016, 10:05:51 pm »
That Owen Jones clip on sky news paper review, how he lasted so long i don't know

Lets call that channel with Kay Burley and Adam Boulton what it really is . Fox News UK. Its a fucking excuse for a news channel

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #412 on: June 13, 2016, 10:16:41 pm »
By all accounts, he just sounds like another headcase that hated the world and everyone in it, including himself.

Donald Trump is an absolute c*nt by the way.

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #413 on: June 13, 2016, 10:16:58 pm »
Omar Maheen hated gays, women and Jews. That's what the BBC news is saying at the moment. He was a fascist inspired by a radical reading of Islam. A cousin of Breivik.
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #415 on: June 13, 2016, 10:27:43 pm »
1000 mass shootings in 1260 days:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence
Crazy. It's at the point now that unless there are at least 10 or so deaths, then it doesn't make it to the mainstream or international news. Look at how many there are where multiple people have been killed and injured, yet we don't hear about even half of them. It's become "normal".

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #416 on: June 13, 2016, 10:58:44 pm »
Excuse the political ignorance, but why can't Obama just ban guns? Has it been put to vote before? What are the steps they need to take, i can't understand how it hasn't even improved slightly after Sandy Hook.
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Offline exiledintheUSA

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #417 on: June 13, 2016, 11:03:16 pm »
Excuse the political ignorance, but why can't Obama just ban guns? Has it been put to vote before? What are the steps they need to take, i can't understand how it hasn't even improved slightly after Sandy Hook.

It's a Constitutional right, requires a large majority of both houses to even consider it.

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #418 on: June 13, 2016, 11:20:51 pm »
Excuse the political ignorance, but why can't Obama just ban guns? Has it been put to vote before? What are the steps they need to take, i can't understand how it hasn't even improved slightly after Sandy Hook.


To get an idea of the mindset of what Obama (and others that want more/any gun control) is up against, watch this...


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/9pOiOhxujsE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/9pOiOhxujsE</a>

Offline TravisBickle

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #419 on: June 13, 2016, 11:30:58 pm »
This is probably true. But the fact remains that at the moment it is Islam which is producing a level of intolerance which frequently tips over into terrorist violence. Anyone who read the Observer yesterday will have seen the terrifying amout of atrocities committed by Islamists against freethinkers, gays, liberals, secularists etc in Bangladesh this past 12 months.

Then there was the Muslim hate preacher who went to Orlando three years ago and told his mosque audience that all homosexuals should be killed. (link above).

It wasn't just a criminally easy access to weapons that produced yesterday's massacre. It was a hateful fascist creed called Islamism.

 Bingo. The funny thing is, the horrific treatment of gay people by Muslim countries and many Muslim groups is a relatively recent thing. As with so many other issues, Islamic societies were far more liberal and tolerant of homosexuality in past eras, which is why the description of ISIS and other such groups as "medieval" and what not is so inaccurate. It isn't a return to a dark past, it's just progressively getting worse and worse.

 Every country in the world which carries the death penalty for homosexuality is Muslim (I believe it's 7 or 8). This is no coincidence.

 I do think calling this guy an "Islamic extremist" is a bit of a stretch, though. He declared allegiance to ISIS rather than Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, which implies genuine ignorance of what he was actually doing. I'm sick to fucking death of Muslims murdering people in the name of Islam only for politicians and journalists to say "Islam was just an excuse" when it was quite clearly the primary motivation, but in this case I think it's accurate to say Islam was indeed an excuse.

 And of course, the usual bigots and racists on the right are using the deaths of innocent people as an excuse to peddle the same old agenda. It's just so fucking depressing. Until you see the scenes in London tonight, that is. What a beautiful show of solidarity.
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #420 on: June 14, 2016, 12:05:22 am »
Bingo. The funny thing is, the horrific treatment of gay people by Muslim countries and many Muslim groups is a relatively recent thing. As with so many other issues, Islamic societies were far more liberal and tolerant of homosexuality in past eras, which is why the description of ISIS and other such groups as "medieval" and what not is so inaccurate. It isn't a return to a dark past, it's just progressively getting worse and worse.

 Every country in the world which carries the death penalty for homosexuality is Muslim (I believe it's 7 or 8). This is no coincidence.

 I do think calling this guy an "Islamic extremist" is a bit of a stretch, though. He declared allegiance to ISIS rather than Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, which implies genuine ignorance of what he was actually doing. I'm sick to fucking death of Muslims murdering people in the name of Islam only for politicians and journalists to say "Islam was just an excuse" when it was quite clearly the primary motivation, but in this case I think it's accurate to say Islam was indeed an excuse.

 And of course, the usual bigots and racists on the right are using the deaths of innocent people as an excuse to peddle the same old agenda. It's just so fucking depressing. Until you see the scenes in London tonight, that is. What a beautiful show of solidarity.

And replicated in many great cities across the world - including one city in the Middle East where the rainbow flag was illuminated on City hall (Tel Aviv of course).
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #421 on: June 14, 2016, 12:10:41 am »
And replicated in many great cities across the world - including one city in the Middle East where the rainbow flag was illuminated on City hall (Tel Aviv of course).

 Of course. I've always been baffled by "LGBT for Palestine" groups because of course, if you were gay in Palestine you'd have to move to Israel but that's not the topic at hand.

 Reports coming out tonight saying the shooter was seen at the club multiple times (where he allegedly got very drunk - what a good Muslim)  and also messaged men on gay dating sites. Looks like he was planning this for a considerable time.
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Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #422 on: June 14, 2016, 01:00:32 am »
Lets call that channel with Kay Burley and Adam Boulton what it really is . Fox News UK. Its a fucking excuse for a news channel
I'm certainly no fan of Sky and I normally have a lot of time for Owen Jones but I don't think he came across particularly well. He used the example of David Copeland, who also (unsuccessfully) targeted the Black community in Brixton and the Asian community in Brick Lane and who was subsequently diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia and then went on to try and shut down any discussion of whether the attacks in Orlando could be seen through any prism other than that of homophobia (whether that be gun control/political or religious extremism or mental illness).

I've read his subsequent guardian piece and still can't agree with him - for me at no point did the other members of the panel try and suggest that this was not an attack on gay people or that homophobia did not play a part in the guys motivation. They were just making the point that you can't treat this atrocity in isolation from both the all too numerous US gun massacres in the recent past and from Islamic fundamentalist attacks such as those in Paris.

Where I can agree with him is that the front pages of the mail and the express were an absolute disgrace.

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #423 on: June 14, 2016, 01:16:55 am »
Today at work, there was conversation in regards to this tragedy, and I mentioned that assault rifles of any sort should not be available to the public. The response I got was ''well the gun didn't walk into the club and shoot everyone''.


Well no shit sherlock it didn't, but that's beside the bloody point.... Which is exactly what the majority think in the US.

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #424 on: June 14, 2016, 01:34:26 am »
I'm certainly no fan of Sky and I normally have a lot of time for Owen Jones but I don't think he came across particularly well. He used the example of David Copeland, who also (unsuccessfully) targeted the Black community in Brixton and the Asian community in Brick Lane and who was subsequently diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia and then went on to try and shut down any discussion of whether the attacks in Orlando could be seen through any prism other than that of homophobia (whether that be gun control/political or religious extremism or mental illness).

I've read his subsequent guardian piece and still can't agree with him - for me at no point did the other members of the panel try and suggest that this was not an attack on gay people or that homophobia did not play a part in the guys motivation. They were just making the point that you can't treat this atrocity in isolation from both the all too numerous US gun massacres in the recent past and from Islamic fundamentalist attacks such as those in Paris.

Where I can agree with him is that the front pages of the mail and the express were an absolute disgrace.

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I agreed with Owen Jones when he said that if the shooter had shot up a Synagogue it would be reported differently than it had been.

This particular incident is quite unique in some ways but, like many attacks in recent years from IS (or IS-inspired attacks), it's fundamentally an attack on things the religious fundamentalists hate about the west. The victims of the attacks in Tunisia last summer were inncoent holiday makers relaxing on a beach. The victims in Paris last November were people in bars drinking, attending a football match and enjoying a rock concert. The victims in Orlando at the weekend were everyday folk out enjoying themselves in a nightclub. It wasn't simply just an attack on western life this time, it was an attack on a particular element of western life and it's sickening to think that someone would kill scores of people simply because who they are attracted to and because of who they love.

These kind of attacks are not random. They have a theme.

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #425 on: June 14, 2016, 01:44:35 am »
In this case, the LGBT community being targeted is inextricably linked to fundamentalist Islam.


Maybe not.

Being reported now that this dipsh*t was a closet homosexual, had a profile on a gay dating site, etc. And he beat his wife.

So he may have been a self-loather as a resulting of the religion in which he was brought up, and knowably violent for whatever other reason (or the same reason). But it looks less likely that he was acting as a soldier for ISIS or some such. He attacked gays because of what they represented to himself.

It was a hate crime against LGBTQ, not a coordinated strike from an Islamist operative.

That some nearly as messed up Christian fundamentalists all but praised the act really says it all about what it's really about.
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #426 on: June 14, 2016, 01:45:14 am »
I'm certainly no fan of Sky and I normally have a lot of time for Owen Jones but I don't think he came across particularly well. He used the example of David Copeland, who also (unsuccessfully) targeted the Black community in Brixton and the Asian community in Brick Lane and who was subsequently diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia and then went on to try and shut down any discussion of whether the attacks in Orlando could be seen through any prism other than that of homophobia (whether that be gun control/political or religious extremism or mental illness).

I've read his subsequent guardian piece and still can't agree with him - for me at no point did the other members of the panel try and suggest that this was not an attack on gay people or that homophobia did not play a part in the guys motivation. They were just making the point that you can't treat this atrocity in isolation from both the all too numerous US gun massacres in the recent past and from Islamic fundamentalist attacks such as those in Paris.

Where I can agree with him is that the front pages of the mail and the express were an absolute disgrace.

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And I'm not sure I agree with your point though it is a well made one. In fact, Owen Jones has been far too guilty of the same thing he does now where clear attacks on certain symbols of liberal life are just brushed under the carpet as being part of a bigger spectrum. The problem I have with that sort of thing is that it really doesn't help us as a society get to the bottom of why things unfolded the way they did.

There has consistently been a theme in the attacks. The attack on the free press to me is the worst of the lot. Since then we've seen attacks on various aspects of liberal life. And then we've had this attack on a particular community within the world that enjoy most freedom and security within the western world.

While I can totally understand Owen Jones' anger at trying to reduce the importance of this being a gay bar, I'm almost feeling spiteful because when people with similar ideologies went for other symbols of free life, he sat there and provided the very excuses and deflections that the Sky news reporters were providing there. But putting that to one side, the key here is to unite against the ideologies that are causing the issues that we're facing. And we as a society can't do that if there are so many people that have their own agendas to protect.
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #427 on: June 14, 2016, 01:47:53 am »
It's a Constitutional right, requires a large majority of both houses to even consider it.

"The Congress, whenever two-thirds of both Houses [the House and the Senate] shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution . . ."

Then you need 3/4 vote of the state legislatures. So if 13 of 50 states can't get an agreement from the legislature, it's dead.

Translation: it's not going to happen for a long, looooooong time.
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #428 on: June 14, 2016, 06:21:58 am »
Only reason he linked himself with a 'cause' was so he would have someone to mourn him and make him a martyr.
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #429 on: June 14, 2016, 08:04:22 am »
Maybe not.

Being reported now that this dipsh*t was a closet homosexual, had a profile on a gay dating site, etc. And he beat his wife.

So he may have been a self-loather as a resulting of the religion in which he was brought up, and knowably violent for whatever other reason (or the same reason). But it looks less likely that he was acting as a soldier for ISIS or some such. He attacked gays because of what they represented to himself.

It was a hate crime against LGBTQ, not a coordinated strike from an Islamist operative.

That some nearly as messed up Christian fundamentalists all but praised the act really says it all about what it's really about.
Agree with you 100%, to me it sounds like he latched on to the ISIS angle because he didn't want everyone to find out that he was a self loathing possible homosexual.  This was a hate crime and it's being deliberately rail roaded by politicians and the media to suit their own agendas.
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Offline OperationIvy

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #430 on: June 14, 2016, 08:18:30 am »
Agree with you 100%, to me it sounds like he latched on to the ISIS angle because he didn't want everyone to find out that he was a self loathing possible homosexual.  This was a hate crime and it's being deliberately rail roaded by politicians and the media to suit their own agendas.

No. You are missing an important point. Why was he self loathing?

The problem lies in the Koran and the Hadith which says homosexuality is forbidden and that they should be stoned or thrown of buildings (ISIS didnt make that up).

Any gay muslim who has read their holy books is bound to be self-loathing  (unless they have the courage to leave the religion).

Of these people, you are always bound to have a very small minority who have the propensity to commit violence and, of course, in the USA, you have access to guns. Its just a bad combination.

EDIT: Actually I have a feeling he felt that by killing gays was the only way he could atone for his "sins" as a gay man.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 08:21:03 am by OperationIvy »

Offline only6times

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #431 on: June 14, 2016, 08:47:03 am »
Agree with you 100%, to me it sounds like he latched on to the ISIS angle because he didn't want everyone to find out that he was a self loathing possible homosexual.  This was a hate crime and it's being deliberately rail roaded by politicians and the media to suit their own agendas.
Hadn't he sworn allegiance to Hezbollah in front of his workmates in the past?
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Offline An Ex-Pessimistic Monkey Spanker

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #432 on: June 14, 2016, 09:10:15 am »
No. You are missing an important point. Why was he self loathing?

The problem lies in the Koran and the Hadith which says homosexuality is forbidden and that they should be stoned or thrown of buildings (ISIS didnt make that up).

Any gay muslim who has read their holy books is bound to be self-loathing  (unless they have the courage to leave the religion).

Of these people, you are always bound to have a very small minority who have the propensity to commit violence and, of course, in the USA, you have access to guns. Its just a bad combination.

EDIT: Actually I have a feeling he felt that by killing gays was the only way he could atone for his "sins" as a gay man.

That's basically what I referenced about his self-loathing perhaps stemming from being raised in the religion (not that Christianity is much different), and perhaps giving over to violent tendencies as well, though there could be a ton of other reasons for that.

But the point I think both my post and Persephone's were making is that this guy no matter what he proclaimed or ISIS claimed responsibility for, was not a sleeper cell operative or anything like that.

You could easily be right about his justification and motivation.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 09:16:18 am by Pessimistic Monkey Spanker Giorgio Fatnose »
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Offline cloggypop

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #433 on: June 14, 2016, 09:13:21 am »
I agreed with Owen Jones when he said that if the shooter had shot up a Synagogue it would be reported differently than it had been.

This particular incident is quite unique in some ways but, like many attacks in recent years from IS (or IS-inspired attacks), it's fundamentally an attack on things the religious fundamentalists hate about the west. The victims of the attacks in Tunisia last summer were inncoent holiday makers relaxing on a beach. The victims in Paris last November were people in bars drinking, attending a football match and enjoying a rock concert. The victims in Orlando at the weekend were everyday folk out enjoying themselves in a nightclub. It wasn't simply just an attack on western life this time, it was an attack on a particular element of western life and it's sickening to think that someone would kill scores of people simply because who they are attracted to and because of who they love.

These kind of attacks are not random. They have a theme.
He seems to have a lot more in common with James Howell than an organised ISIS attack.

Offline Persephone

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #434 on: June 14, 2016, 09:35:03 am »
No. You are missing an important point. Why was he self loathing?

The problem lies in the Koran and the Hadith which says homosexuality is forbidden and that they should be stoned or thrown of buildings (ISIS didnt make that up).

Any gay muslim who has read their holy books is bound to be self-loathing  (unless they have the courage to leave the religion).

Of these people, you are always bound to have a very small minority who have the propensity to commit violence and, of course, in the USA, you have access to guns. Its just a bad combination.

EDIT: Actually I have a feeling he felt that by killing gays was the only way he could atone for his "sins" as a gay man.
No you're missing the point and seem to be on a bit of a witch hunt. Most religions don't agree with homosexuality, he could have been a Christian, Hindu or Jew. Fact is growing up in an exceedingly religious home of whatever faith can skew your view on many things.  This man had issues and his religious radicalisation was just a part of it and most certainly not the whole story.

Read the Guardians Samra Habib's article
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/12/queer-muslims-mourning-orlando-nightclub-shooting
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Online The North Bank

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #435 on: June 14, 2016, 09:55:20 am »
Homosexuals are demonised the world over, see how they get treated in Africa and Russia, organised gangs backed by secret police dishing out beatings under the protection of the state.
Islam is anti homosexuals ( as are all religions bar none). There are plenty of anti gay Muslims in the UK, what they don't have here is an arsenal of fully automatic high powered assault rifles that can mow down 100 people in a couple of minutes, for the moment where you go over the edge with your hatred and decide to act on it, the next step is what weapon to use. Are you ready to take on 100 people with a knife and a baseball bat, probably not, the odds don't look good, that's a deterrent. In the usa anyone can become a mass murderer, a couple of token checks and you're set. Putting some right to bear arms commandment above the lives of millions is now attacking our western way of life, it needs to be dealt with as severely as Isis. The massacres have to stop, people are dying in their thousands and no one dares challenge a historical biblical commandment, like they don't challenge shariya law in Saudi Arabia. How is this still allowed to happen.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 09:57:31 am by The North Bank »

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #436 on: June 14, 2016, 10:04:19 am »
While I can totally understand Owen Jones' anger at trying to reduce the importance of this being a gay bar, I'm almost feeling spiteful because when people with similar ideologies went for other symbols of free life, he sat there and provided the very excuses and deflections that the Sky news reporters were providing there.

This is a good point.

I've come to enjoy Owen Jones's analysis of things even though I don't generally agree with him. But in his earlier days he certainly did as you suggest, as did many on the far left. Every Islamist attack on the West was emptied of its religious content and 'explained' as an understandable response to Britain's invasion of Iraq and the toppling of Saddam. This occurred even when the Islamists left manifestos explaining that they were attacking 'western decadence' and licentiousness. The result was that the dead and injured were seen as incidental to the crime. The massacre of party-goers in Bali, holiday makers in Tunisia, and revellers at Tiger Tiger on Haymarket were simply not talked about on the left for what they so obviously were - an extreme puritanical, religiously inspired, act of terror against heretics.

This attack in Orlando is cut from the very same cloth.
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #437 on: June 14, 2016, 10:07:35 am »
Homosexuals are demonised the world over....

Stop there. Some nations have made enormous strides towards homosexual equality in the last 50 years. You must have noticed that. Most people in countries like the UK and Holland and Denmark and Ireland etc etc etc think this is a good thing.
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Offline Jimmys Casey

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #438 on: June 14, 2016, 12:17:57 pm »
1000 mass shootings in 1260 days:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence

Is there a list with how many of those are from legal and illegal arms?
Do they have a database with ballistics information with some repeat weapons being used I wonder?


Offline Lucas DuoFlush

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in America.
« Reply #439 on: June 14, 2016, 12:47:33 pm »
This is a good point.

I've come to enjoy Owen Jones's analysis of things even though I don't generally agree with him. But in his earlier days he certainly did as you suggest, as did many on the far left. Every Islamist attack on the West was emptied of its religious content and 'explained' as an understandable response to Britain's invasion of Iraq and the toppling of Saddam. This occurred even when the Islamists left manifestos explaining that they were attacking 'western decadence' and licentiousness. The result was that the dead and injured were seen as incidental to the crime. The massacre of party-goers in Bali, holiday makers in Tunisia, and revellers at Tiger Tiger on Haymarket were simply not talked about on the left for what they so obviously were - an extreme puritanical, religiously inspired, act of terror against heretics.

This attack in Orlando is cut from the very same cloth.

I don't think you get the point of that argument. The point of it is that destabilising countries creates an environment in which there is a vacuum of power and in which people feel hopeless and powerless enough to join death cults like ISIS. Anyone on the left suggesting that terrorist attacks are "understandable responses" are idiots. But I don't think many (or any) of them are.
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