Topic: Atmosphere at Anfield

[Stevo]

Some of the best atmospheres I’ve experienced have been when we’ve been huge underdogs and the team have really needed the lift or there’s been real jeopardy about the result. If you have neither and there’s no tension or drama then it makes things a lot less interesting.

Being good isn’t always great for an atmosphere. You could have the odd celebratory occasion (winning 7-0 against your big rivals perhaps) but a lot of the time the expectation is so high it just leaves everything feeling flat.

It’s a bit of a fine line sometimes.

[BCCC]

I think the flag withdrawal was a contributing factor last night but the atmosphere has been dying a slow death for many a year. If I had to measure the impact of no flags I'd suggest the result was the game being downgraded to an early CL group game standard rather than a European quarter final first leg.

Not that I advocate any change from one game to the next. You can't call yourself part of a mythical 12th man if you're not contributing yourself.

[mattyyt]

So the flags don’t affect the atmosphere, Spion Kop just hold them up to help the club with marketing? 

I don’t think anyone is arguing against the working class, but more for doing everything we can to help this team win trophies in the final season of one of the greatest men to ever be involved with the club. Time and a place. 

[Yorkykopite]

Pretty sure the Spion Kop lads wouldn't have done it to ruin the atmosphere and more rather the point that "you use us for marketing and you make money from us holding these flags up, we won't let you do that anymore"

Can't believe that we're on a Liverpool website actually trying to argue in favour of the working people over the bureaucrat at the top trying to rip them off!

Speak for yourself. I don't think anyone else is arguing against working people here.

The aim of the protest was clear and clearly stated. But I'd be surprised if the organisers didn't think that a bit collateral damage (a weakening of the atmosphere) might be useful too. They, like the team, like the rest of us perhaps, probably underestimated the danger presented by Atalanta. Maybe the assumption of all of us was that Liverpool would beat the Italians even in an atmosphere generated by a funeral home. Wrong! 

[Lemieux]

Maybe SOS should open themselves up for more questioning about situations like this. I don't believe they represented the fan base well here, which is their primary objective.

It's disheartening to see the players and Klopp put through this at such an important time in the season. Does it linger into the league matches? Supporters are now unsettled and we have massive matches coming up. I don't believe it accomplished anything other than hurting the team, which was not the goal.

[Wilmo]

Disclaimer - I don't get to the game very much at all anymore (and only rarely used to go) due to the cost, difficulty getting tickets, carer responsibilities and not wanting to take tickets away from more local fans.

Whenever I've been I've always belted my lungs out. Reading some of the comments here about so many people being silent, I just don't get it. You get a better view on the telly and can get up and fix your own brew. What is the point of going to the match if you're not going to sing? I honestly don't understand why people would go if they don't want to get involved with, you know, going the game?

[JamesG L4]

The awful result and the flat atmosphere add more credibility to the fan protests. It actually makes the 3-0 palatable.

Without the core supporters who make Anfield special, without the lads and lasses who design, make, carry and fly the flags, we become just another club.

If last night's legacy is one where FSG, once again, are reminded that our fanbase has a voice, has an opinion and will make a difference when not heard, then it is price well worth paying.

When those flags are flying and YNWA is in full voice, that's when the fans on their once in a lifetime visit get the photos, the videos - it is part of the culture and to take it for granted is walking down the path of little plastic flags.

[Red_Mist]

I suspect if the flags had been out as normal, the atmosphere would still have been crap. Yes it probably made a bit of difference, especially at the start of course. But once the game was underway, there were multiple other factors. The way the team was playing, the deflation after the united game, the number of tickets passed on, or not passed on and the seat left empty, a first leg, just the fact its been poor all season in europe. Blaming the lads who put the effort in week in week out is a terrible shout.

[SamLad]

The awful result and the flat atmosphere add more credibility to the fan protests. It actually makes the 3-0 palatable.

Without the core supporters who make Anfield special, without the lads and lasses who design, make, carry and fly the flags, we become just another club.

If last night's legacy is one where FSG, once again, are reminded that our fanbase has a voice, has an opinion and will make a difference when not heard, then it is price well worth paying.

When those flags are flying and YNWA is in full voice, that's when the fans on their once in a lifetime visit get the photos, the videos - it is part of the culture and to take it for granted is walking down the path of little plastic flags.

what?  is this "cut off yer nose to spite yer face" week?

[Paul JH]

It makes you wonder what the point of the flags is then?

I think their absence probably did affect the game a bit. The flags and banners have become a key part of the Anfield ritual, a sort of opening ceremony for the big match. That was why taking the flags out of the Kop was such a powerful statement.

And you can't have it both ways. You can't say that the flags are important and their withdrawal is a big statement and that the effect of the flags on the whole occasion is negligible or non-existent. Last night the temperature in the stadium was lowered right from the start. That was surely the intention of those who organised the protest. Otherwise why do it?

Of course we lost the game because we were badly set up to counter Atalanta's man-marking system and the players weren't smart enough to learn from what was happening. But nor could they draw on the power of Anfield when they found themselves struggling. It looked like the subdued mood had been set in the build up and it just wasn't going to change. Put it this way, there'll be no wondrous stories being told now in Bergamo about the Anfield experience. It was Atalanta who made the noise - on and off the pitch.

Amen.

[...]

Don't you think last night was mostly down to the fans' expectations and the fact that we were playing a relatively 'unknown' team, regardless of it being a European quarter?

I've mentioned in the match thread some our fans' entitlement recently - that's the big issue. Even 'hardcore' proper fans moaning and not getting behind the team because they have mad expectations, it's not on.

[Paul JH]

Then look at whether it was the case of a few flags not being waved affecting the atmosphere or was it just that people really couldn't be arsed?

Ah., ok, so it wasn't the lack of flags and the protest that contributed to the atmosphere being flat, it was just fans couldn't be arsed? With a Europa League Quarter final in Klopps final season? Ok, got ya.

Can't believe that we're on a Liverpool website actually trying to argue in favour of the working people over the bureaucrat at the top trying to rip them off!

Christ almighty, who is doing that? Bizarre mate. We are talking about the protest and lack of the flags did have an affect on the atmosphere whether you agree with the protest or not. Even if you fully support it, it DID contribute to the atmospeher being flat at the start, it just did mate, whether you support them wholesale or not. You can agree with the protest and still think it contributed the flat atmosphere you know.

[JamesG L4]

what?  is this "cut off yer nose to spite yer face" week?

In 2016, when fans left on 77 minutes, we were 2-0 up. Game ended 2-2.

Do you think it was worth it then? Last night wasn’t so extreme, but who knows the difference it makes longer term when decisions are being made.

[...]

Ah., ok, so it wasn't the lack of flags and the protest that contributed to the atmosphere being flat, it was just fans couldn't be arsed? With a Europa League Quarter final in Klopps final season? Ok, got ya.

So the lack of flags stopped anyone from getting behind the team? Are we that pathetic?

[Paul JH]

So the lack of flags stopped anyone from getting behind the team? Are we that pathetic?

Jesus Christ, take a bit of time to read the posts and the nuance. Where did anyone say that? Where did anyone say it stopped anyone getting behind the team? They are saying that it contributed to a flat atmosphere at the start of the match.

[MH41]

I'm sorry but that's an OG from the organisers.
How on earth did they believe that this was the most appropriate way, or moment to do so?

If you are going to protest about the club, you do not do anything that might affect the team. This should have been a big European night. The team needed everything.

It should have been klopp's 2nd last one. It might now have been his last. But why even consider it on his 2nd last one? He deserved better than this, after all he has done for LFC. We all know how Klopp thrives on atmosphere. He also had to come out and make a comment about it, the day before the game..

Calling for a flag ban last night was wrong. Anything that reduces the atmosphere of the ground or the occasion influences the team, and the tie.
Even if it only by a few per cent, it is still wrong.
I hope a different avenue, and at a more appropriate time, can be used in the future.

[Craig S]

Maybe SOS should open themselves up for more questioning about situations like this. I don't believe they represented the fan base well here, which is their primary objective.

It's disheartening to see the players and Klopp put through this at such an important time in the season. Does it linger into the league matches? Supporters are now unsettled and we have massive matches coming up. I don't believe it accomplished anything other than hurting the team, which was not the goal.

It wasn't SOS. It was 1906, the lads that actually give up their time & money to hold the flags every game.

[MNAA]

It makes you wonder what the point of the flags is then?

I think their absence probably did affect the game a bit. The flags and banners have become a key part of the Anfield ritual, a sort of opening ceremony for the big match. That was why taking the flags out of the Kop was such a powerful statement.

And you can't have it both ways. You can't say that the flags are important and their withdrawal is a big statement and that the effect of the flags on the whole occasion is negligible or non-existent. Last night the temperature in the stadium was lowered right from the start. That was surely the intention of those who organised the protest. Otherwise why do it?

Of course we lost the game because we were badly set up to counter Atalanta's man-marking system and the players weren't smart enough to learn from what was happening. But nor could they draw on the power of Anfield when they found themselves struggling. It looked like the subdued mood had been set in the build up and it just wasn't going to change. Put it this way, there'll be no wondrous stories being told now in Bergamo about the Anfield experience. It was Atalanta who made the noise - on and off the pitch.

This absolutely

[MNAA]

Speak for yourself. I don't think anyone else is arguing against working people here.

The aim of the protest was clear and clearly stated. But I'd be surprised if the organisers didn't think that a bit collateral damage (a weakening of the atmosphere) might be useful too. They, like the team, like the rest of us perhaps, probably underestimated the danger presented by Atalanta. Maybe the assumption of all of us was that Liverpool would beat the Italians even in an atmosphere generated by a funeral home. Wrong! 

And this

[upthereds1993]

In 2016, when fans left on 77 minutes, we were 2-0 up. Game ended 2-2.

Do you think it was worth it then? Last night wasn’t so extreme, but who knows the difference it makes longer term when decisions are being made.

Was definitely worth it. If they they'd have gotten away with raising the prices in certain sections of the ground to £77 eight years ago, god only knows what they'd be charging now

[MNAA]

The awful result and the flat atmosphere add more credibility to the fan protests. It actually makes the 3-0 palatable.

Without the core supporters who make Anfield special, without the lads and lasses who design, make, carry and fly the flags, we become just another club.

If last night's legacy is one where FSG, once again, are reminded that our fanbase has a voice, has an opinion and will make a difference when not heard, then it is price well worth paying.

When those flags are flying and YNWA is in full voice, that's when the fans on their once in a lifetime visit get the photos, the videos - it is part of the culture and to take it for granted is walking down the path of little plastic flags.

Congratulations. Well deserved 0-3 defeat at home rejoiced by fans of the defeated team. See we’ve driven our point home

All fans understand and support the protest. But some do not want it to be detrimental to the team directly or indirectly. Yes we were shite from the get go but we are in denial if we believe that the protest/no flags has no bearing on the psyche of the team

[Macc77]

Anything that reduces the atmosphere of the ground or the occasion influences the team, and the tie.

This is most definitely true, so for me the protest was spot on, because a hike in prices (even 2%) may dissuade some of those very people that create atmosphere from renewing in future. When those people are gone they won't be replaced like for like.

The club thought a 'measly' 2% hike would go un-noticed, and assumed everybody has the cash to just take the hit and move on. From where we were in 1992 when I had my last kids season ticket on the Kop to where we are now just over 30 years later is light years difference in terms of what it costs to watch a game of football. Loads must have sacked it off in the intervening 30 years due to cost, and this has played its part in reduced week to week atmosphere in those 3 decades.

When you think of the money clubs now generate in tv money, advertising, sponsorships, etc and think of how much they are willing to pay players because they can afford to, they shouldn't be hiking prices at all, they should be lowering them. When clubs existed primarily through their gate receipts they possibly undercharged fans to get into grounds. Now when gate receipts are less important to the bottom line than ever, they charge the earth for fans to get into grounds. Even a price freeze is accepting a status quo of ridiculously high prices, and a hike is the club telling fans that they've somehow been getting a good deal for the last few years, when they haven't. Maybe if the protests in the 90s and 2000s had been as targeted and focused we'd all be happily taking a 2% price hike and accepting it as fair enough given we'd been paying £25 to get in the ground.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

In 2016, when fans left on 77 minutes, we were 2-0 up. Game ended 2-2.

Do you think it was worth it then? Last night wasn’t so extreme, but who knows the difference it makes longer term when decisions are being made.

They are doing it again on Sunday.

I fully expect us to lose that game.

[Red_Mist]

It makes you wonder what the point of the flags is then?

The flags on the Kop (and I realise you already know this, but you did pose the question mate) are so much more than generating an atmosphere aren’t they. Look at the people on the flags themselves. Not just players but legends on and off the field. Some still with us, others gone but never forgotten. Flying proudly above the shrine that is the Kop end goalmouth. I’ve never wondered what the point of them is, and never thought it’s just to create atmosphere. If that was the case, we’d keep waving them all match like you see ultras do behind the goal across Europe. The poster you were replying to was saying it’s PEOPLE who create an atmosphere, and he’s damn right.

[Red_Mist]

They are doing it again on Sunday.

I fully expect us to lose that game.

Good grief Andy! It’s getting a bit silly now. Oh look a flag, “Liv-er-pool, Liv-er-pool”.

[Jookie]

Reading some of the comments here and elsewhere you really see the emphasis people are putting on SpionKop1906 and how that relatively small group of people can affect atmosphere, other fans involvement, player performance and overall result.

I don’t believe it personally but if you think the protest last night had such a detrimental effect on the result, then surely you’ve got to reach the conclusion that this small group of supporters are so influential that why are we asking them to pay to get into games, nevermind handing them a 2% rise in prices. Conversely the other 50 odd thousand in the ground where pretty much hamstrung into generating an atmosphere because SpionKop1906 didn’t do their thing. What does it say about the rest of the supporter base and how they are interchangeable without much impact on generating an atmosphere without the core of 1906.

Makes you think. Or it’s all b*****ks and we just had a poor night both on and off the pitch.

[FlashGordon]

Good on them. All this money sloshing around in the game, ticket prices should be getting cheaper not more expensive.

[Tombellylfc]

Some of our own fans been badly exposing themselves as selfish Tory idiots over this stuff. Blaming losing a match on the flags not being there (BTW the spion kop lads own them flags so it is totally up to them if they display them nobody else). Seen idiots all over the place saying spion and sos don't represent them and shouldn't protest etc.  As has been said anybody can join them and have their voices heard. Also loads that are saying they don't like spion and sos are the first to praise the atmosphere etc when it's good and that is largely contributed too by those lads. They can't have it both ways. Also seen people saying it's only 2% people should just get on with it as we do with other bills etc. This really winds me up as a single lad on minimum wage who has had a season ticket for close to 20 years now I am one of the ones that will very much be impacted by any price rise as I already have to really budget and sacrifice things to be able to afford to go the game. Seeing people online saying people who can't afford it should just give up their tickets is infuriating. Prices of football are already too high there is absolutely no need for an increase the club makes enough money. Its not my job to pay for the next shiny new player or the next overpriced contract. They make enough money through sponsors etc to live well within their means. Plus the fact that next year we have champions league money not europa league which equates to a lot more money and the fact the new stand has added millions to match day income. Its just pure greed.  The working class game they once called it. Not any more.

[Paul JH]

The flags on the Kop (and I realise you already know this, but you did pose the question mate) are so much more than generating an atmosphere aren’t they. Look at the people on the flags themselves. Not just players but legends on and off the field. Some still with us, others gone but never forgotten. Flying proudly above the shrine that is the Kop end goalmouth. I’ve never wondered what the point of them is, and never thought it’s just to create atmosphere. If that was the case, we’d keep waving them all match like you see ultras do behind the goal across Europe. The poster you were replying to was saying it’s PEOPLE who create an atmosphere, and he’s damn right.

I don't understand why match going reds can't get their heads around HOW the flags on Euro nights set the tone for the atmosphere for the night. And as Yorky says, if they don't, and that's NOT the point of them, then why wave them at all?
It's to welcome European teams to the home of one of the most successful teams in Europe, intimidate the opposition, yes, and also to get the crowd up for the match surely?

Seems to be loads on here who can't seem to grasp that there is surely a link to that, and the fact that with them being removed, it was like any other match last night and the talking amongst the fans at the start was about the ticket prices protest and lack of flags, hence the atmosphere STARTED flat and never recovered.

[FlashGordon]

I can't get the my head around the fact fans are happy for other fans, already struggling to make ends meet, are expected to pay ever increasing ticket prices.

[Paul JH]

Reading some of the comments here and elsewhere you really see the emphasis people are putting on SpionKop1906 and how that relatively small group of people can affect atmosphere, other fans involvement, player performance and overall result.

I don’t believe it personally but if you think the protest last night had such a detrimental effect on the result, then surely you’ve got to reach the conclusion that this small group of supporters are so influential that why are we asking them to pay to get into games, nevermind handing them a 2% rise in prices. Conversely the other 50 odd thousand in the ground where pretty much hamstrung into generating an atmosphere because SpionKop1906 didn’t do their thing. What does it say about the rest of the supporter base and how they are interchangeable without much impact on generating an atmosphere without the core of 1906.

Makes you think. Or it’s all b*****ks and we just had a poor night both on and off the pitch.

Seems to be a black and white replies that the flags not being there DIRECTLY caused the 0-3 result, which really isn't what people are saying though is it? They are saying that the protest contribute to the flat atmosphere at the start, that's all. It can be both. Shit night for the team, shit night off the pitch too. Seems in this thread there's too much 'oh, so you're saying that the players were shit because of no flags?!' when no, that's not what people are saying.

I can't get the my head around the fact fans are happy for other fans, already struggling to make ends meet, are expected to pay ever increasing ticket prices.

I can't get my head around this reply either ... who in here has said they are HAPPY that fans have to pay more? Really?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Good grief Andy! It’s getting a bit silly now. Oh look a flag, “Liv-er-pool, Liv-er-pool”.

We've been playing poorly for a few games now. Usually the players would applaud the fans and win, lose or draw you'd feel like we were all one big team. That completely vanished last night.

I honestly expect the game on Sunday to be worse than that one as more than a few will be protesting 'properly' and that'll likely bleed into the atmosphere. Despite what some people are saying, league games at Anfield against 'poor' opposition - especially on that shithouse time on a Sunday are ALWAYS quiet anyway. I reckon you'll be able to hear a pin drop throughout and all the players looked massively unhappy and depressed for the whole game.

Can't blame them. Really don't feel like going myself now. Hate Sunday kick offs at the best of times and this will deffo have an atmosphere with the players not being confident and looking fed up, Klopp leaving, the pressure at the top of the league, daytripping fans that can't be arsed singing, long timers that can't be arsed singing and no one giving any encouragement at all.

It's going to be shite and I hope we don't get twatted, but I think it's a possibility.

[Jookie]

Congratulations. Well deserved 0-3 defeat at home rejoiced by fans of the defeated team. See we’ve driven our point home

All fans understand and support the protest. But some do not want it to be detrimental to the team directly or indirectly. Yes we were shite from the get go but we are in denial if we believe that the protest/no flags has no bearing on the psyche of the team

Couldn’t the 50k Liverpool fans in the ground last night, who may or may not have agreed with the protest, compensated for the protest?

Why would the no flags protest affect their ability to generate an atmosphere?

I’m loathe to criticise the atmosphere when I haven’t  been to a game. But it’s the responsibility of every person in the ground, for each game, to generate an atmosphere. It’s not down to a select few, who already dedicate many hours outside of games making flags and banners to provide the backdrop that is synonymous with Liverpool, to galvanise an atmosphere out of the vast majority.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Couldn’t the 50k Liverpool fans in the ground last night, who may or may not have agreed with the protest, compensated for the protest?

Why would the no flags protest affect their ability to generate an atmosphere?

I’m loathe to criticise the atmosphere when I haven’t  been to a game. But it’s the responsibility of every person in the ground, for each game, to generate an atmosphere. It’s not down to a select few, who already dedicate many hours outside of games making flags and banners to provide the backdrop that is synonymous with Liverpool, to galvanise an atmosphere out of the vast majority.

But that's what people are saying. The Flags DO make a difference, They DO make it a special night, They DO get the crowd up and involved.

I can't believe there are people around that think it makes fuck all difference to be honest


Always special seeing the Kop in full voice with the banners and flags. How can any Liverpool fan think that's NOT special and part of our club?

[BCCC]

Maybe a different protest is needed. Most would agree ticket prices are ridiculous and are also a root cause of slowly decaying match atmosphere yet the method of protest is not helping the team at a time they need it most.

What happened to the good old mass march to the ground and or a silent sit in after the game?

[Paul JH]

This thread has gone completely black and white now ... if you say the flag protest contributed to the lack of atmosphere that becomes you're against the protest and 'as if flags would cause the team to lose 0-3, pffffffff....' 

Is all debate like this in here now?

I 100% agree with the protest, I 100% agree with not raising prices, I 100% don't think a lack of flags made our players play shite, but I also 100% think that the protest, and the withdrawing of the flags on the night CONTRIBUTED to a total lack of atmosphere from the off that never recovered because we were subsequently also shite.

[Red_Mist]

I don't understand why match going reds can't get their heads around HOW the flags on Euro nights set the tone for the atmosphere for the night. And as Yorky says, if they don't, and that's NOT the point of them, then why wave them at all?
It's to welcome European teams to the home of one of the most successful teams in Europe, intimidate the opposition, yes, and also to get the crowd up for the match surely?

Seems to be loads on here who can't seem to grasp that there is surely a link to that, and the fact that with them being removed, it was like any other match last night and the talking amongst the fans at the start was about the ticket prices protest and lack of flags, hence the atmosphere STARTED flat and never recovered.

The problem with your reply is I’ve already said it probably had an effect. But it would probably have been crap anyway. I don’t think it’s the flags so much as the protest itself that affected things. But it was far from the only reason, and blaming the flag lads is disingenuous in the extreme. As Tombellylfc says above, they can do what they like, they are their flags. They’ve put the effort in, so they get to choose.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

This thread has gone completely black and white now ... if you say the flag protest contributed to the lack of atmosphere that becomes you're against the protest and 'as if flags would cause the team to lose 0-3, pffffffff....' 

Is all debate like this in here now?

I 100% agree with the protest, I 100% agree with not raising prices, I 100% don't think a lack of flags made our players play shite, but I also 100% think that the protest, and the withdrawing of the flags on the night CONTRIBUTED to a total lack of atmosphere from the off that never recovered because we were subsequently also shite.

Agreed.

Some fucking weirdos in this thread. Accusing people of being fucking Tories because they are concerned that the protest affected the atmosphere.

I mean. What the actual fuck?

[Sharado]

They are doing it again on Sunday.

I fully expect us to lose that game.

If we do then this isn't on them. It's on FSG and their failure to engage on this subject.

[Paul JH]

But it was far from the only reason, and blaming the flag lads is disingenuous in the extreme.

Jesus Christ, read my posts carefully eh .. especially the one just above this comment. At no point anywhere have I soleley blamed them OR said it was the ONLY reason. Here, will quote for you ...

I 100% agree with the protest, I 100% agree with not raising prices, I 100% don't think a lack of flags made our players play shite, but I also 100% think that the protest, and the withdrawing of the flags on the night CONTRIBUTED to a total lack of atmosphere from the off that never recovered because we were subsequently also shite.