Topic: Jordon Ibe

[Cpt_Reina]

The Sterling comparisons abound I see.

Personally I don't see the need for it, as they're very different types of players.

But if we're going to do it then we should probably do it properly.

Ibe has seduced everyone this pre-season with his directness, pace and the odd goal and assist. He's earned his praise that's for sure.

But there's a lot more to be seen of him yet. Like the fact that he can hold on to the ball for far too long some times. Through either bad decision making or just a general 'selfishness'. This isn't something you can label at Sterling to the same degree (it's also fine for a young player to do before anyone picks me up on it).

His pace and his power are probably his strongest attributes, but the lad doesn't make the same sort of runs that Sterling does. His movement off the ball isn't even in the same league as Sterling's.

He's a more powerful shot than Sterling, and a certain eye for goal. But Sterling's out scored (and out assisted) Ibe at their respective stages. Perhaps because Sterling just creates so many more opportunities for himself, I don't think his finishing is *that* much better than Ibe's if at all.

I see it like this, Ibe has all the attributes that will catch the eye early and quickly. He's big, strong, fast as a locomotive and bloody minded about how to put the ball in the net. He gets it and he drives for it. People love all that (as well they might).

But Sterling, despite only being a year older, is a much more mature player. He might not be quite as fast, or quite as likely to carve a path towards goal. But he's a hell of a lot more likely to actually get there.

Not basing this on Sterling as of now, as that would be unfair. He's had a season of first team football and an international cap in that year between them.

But at this stage last year, Sterling had all this stuff in place already. Ibe just doesn't yet, IMHO. Now there's no shame in it. Ibe doesn't have to be Sterling any more than we 'make' him be.

But in that cliched adage of 'a young player will run through a barbed wire fence for you, where an old one will look for a hole in it'. Even at Ibe's age Sterling was looking for the hole (pun intended) and that's the difference for me.

[stewy17]

good post cpt_reina, Ibe does look exciting and eye catching but I guess as a 17 year old there are going to be teething problems. Especially when trying to harness the raw power he's got.

The way I see things though, the two of them are fucking lightning, if they can both continue to progress then we might end up with two of the scariest wingers/wide forwards in the game. we've seen with Spurs just what that can do to opposition teams.

The pure pace from Ibe scares the shit out of me, never mind the players he's up against.

We just have to pray that they both progress well and make it.

[ryan125]

The Sterling comparisons abound I see.

Personally I don't see the need for it, as they're very different types of players.

But if we're going to do it then we should probably do it properly.

Ibe has seduced everyone this pre-season with his directness, pace and the odd goal and assist. He's earned his praise that's for sure.

But there's a lot more to be seen of him yet. Like the fact that he can hold on to the ball for far too long some times. Through either bad decision making or just a general 'selfishness'. This isn't something you can label at Sterling to the same degree (it's also fine for a young player to do before anyone picks me up on it).

His pace and his power are probably his strongest attributes, but the lad doesn't make the same sort of runs that Sterling does. His movement off the ball isn't even in the same league as Sterling's.

He's a more powerful shot than Sterling, and a certain eye for goal. But Sterling's out scored (and out assisted) Ibe at their respective stages. Perhaps because Sterling just creates so many more opportunities for himself, I don't think his finishing is *that* much better than Ibe's if at all.

I see it like this, Ibe has all the attributes that will catch the eye early and quickly. He's big, strong, fast as a locomotive and bloody minded about how to put the ball in the net. He gets it and he drives for it. People love all that (as well they might).

But Sterling, despite only being a year older, is a much more mature player. He might not be quite as fast, or quite as likely to carve a path towards goal. But he's a hell of a lot more likely to actually get there.

Not basing this on Sterling as of now, as that would be unfair. He's had a season of first team football and an international cap in that year between them.

But at this stage last year, Sterling had all this stuff in place already. Ibe just doesn't yet, IMHO. Now there's no shame in it. Ibe doesn't have to be Sterling any more than we 'make' him be.

But in that cliched adage of 'a young player will run through a barbed wire fence for you, where an old one will look for a hole in it'. Even at Ibe's age Sterling was looking for the hole (pun intended) and that's the difference for me.

Really agree with this post. I see Ibe as much more similar to Oxlade Chamberlain, while Sterling has all the attributes to become a Hazard. Will be interesting to see how central Sterling ends up IMO. Rogers has already played him centrally before, I love his weight of pass.

[DanA]

I agree with the oxlade comparison but I don't think Raheem isn't technically even close to Hazards level . there a lot of stuff Hazard does that is ridiculous where as Raheem has stepovers etc but not the super technical bag of trick Hazard has. Tello would be a better comparison.

[ElstonGunn]

The Sterling comparisons abound I see.

Personally I don't see the need for it, as they're very different types of players.

But if we're going to do it then we should probably do it properly.

Ibe has seduced everyone this pre-season with his directness, pace and the odd goal and assist. He's earned his praise that's for sure.

But there's a lot more to be seen of him yet. Like the fact that he can hold on to the ball for far too long some times. Through either bad decision making or just a general 'selfishness'. This isn't something you can label at Sterling to the same degree (it's also fine for a young player to do before anyone picks me up on it).

His pace and his power are probably his strongest attributes, but the lad doesn't make the same sort of runs that Sterling does. His movement off the ball isn't even in the same league as Sterling's.

He's a more powerful shot than Sterling, and a certain eye for goal. But Sterling's out scored (and out assisted) Ibe at their respective stages. Perhaps because Sterling just creates so many more opportunities for himself, I don't think his finishing is *that* much better than Ibe's if at all.

I see it like this, Ibe has all the attributes that will catch the eye early and quickly. He's big, strong, fast as a locomotive and bloody minded about how to put the ball in the net. He gets it and he drives for it. People love all that (as well they might).

But Sterling, despite only being a year older, is a much more mature player. He might not be quite as fast, or quite as likely to carve a path towards goal. But he's a hell of a lot more likely to actually get there.

Not basing this on Sterling as of now, as that would be unfair. He's had a season of first team football and an international cap in that year between them.

But at this stage last year, Sterling had all this stuff in place already. Ibe just doesn't yet, IMHO. Now there's no shame in it. Ibe doesn't have to be Sterling any more than we 'make' him be.

But in that cliched adage of 'a young player will run through a barbed wire fence for you, where an old one will look for a hole in it'. Even at Ibe's age Sterling was looking for the hole (pun intended) and that's the difference for me.

Great post.

[ElstonGunn]

I agree with the oxlade comparison but I don't think Raheem isn't technically even close to Hazards level . there a lot of stuff Hazard does that is ridiculous where as Raheem has stepovers etc but not the super technical bag of trick Hazard has. Tello would be a better comparison.

How good was Hazard at 17/18? Could he do that stuff? Is that level of technical ability something you either have or don't at 17? (I'm genuinely asking.)

I don't see the Tello comparison. Tello is all about his physical attributes + decent dribbling and finishing. Sterling has a much more varied approach. Tello is also basically a wide striker. Raheem's a genuine wide attacking midfielder, who's happy to receive the ball in a #10 position, a goalscoring position behind the defense or in a natural winger's position. If he improve his finishing, he can be special.

[PhaseOfPlay]

How good was Hazard at 17/18? Could he do that stuff? Is that level of technical ability something you either have or don't at 17? (I'm genuinely asking.)

I don't see the Tello comparison. Tello is all about his physical attributes + decent dribbling and finishing. Sterling has a much more varied approach. Tello is also basically a wide striker. Raheem's a genuine wide attacking midfielder, who's happy to receive the ball in a #10 position, a goalscoring position behind the defense or in a natural winger's position. If he improve his finishing, he can be special.

That stuff would be stuff he's been doing since he was 10, probably. It would be refined and polished over the years, and improved. But the technical base would have been present as early as 10, and definitely at 17/18

Edit - and here we go:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OlkZYMh0gTg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/OlkZYMh0gTg</a>

[ElstonGunn]

That stuff would be stuff he's been doing since he was 10, probably. It would be refined and polished over the years, and improved. But the technical base would have been present as early as 10, and definitely at 17/18

Edit - and here we go:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OlkZYMh0gTg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/OlkZYMh0gTg</a>

I was hoping you'd come to answer.

I know you've had some concerns about Sterling's ability to score goals. Let's for the sake of argument assume Sterling ends up a 1 goal in 4 winger. Given his other attributes and technical base, what do you see as his realistic potential?

[PhaseOfPlay]

I was hoping you'd come to answer.

I know you've had some concerns about Sterling's ability to score goals. Let's for the sake of argument assume Sterling ends up a 1 goal in 4 winger. Given his other attributes and technical base, what do you see as his realistic potential?

He has a lot of potential. It's hard to tell how much without going off the deep end in a positive direction He'll at least be as good as Coutinho is now, but my main concern would be how playing for England will affect him physically, because he will surely be an England starter. If he becomes a 1-in-4 winger, he would become a focal point of Liverpool in the way that Gerrard did. But again, if he's handled wrongly by England, he may not fulfil that potential, due to their lack of care for club players. It'll be easier to make a prediction at the end of this next season though. He looks physically stronger already, and he hasn't done too badly in scoring in pre-season. If that continues, a reappraisal will be in order.

[Juan Loco]

He has a lot of potential. It's hard to tell how much without going off the deep end in a positive direction He'll at least be as good as Coutinho is now, but my main concern would be how playing for England will affect him physically, because he will surely be an England starter. If he becomes a 1-in-4 winger, he would become a focal point of Liverpool in the way that Gerrard did. But again, if he's handled wrongly by England, he may not fulfil that potential, due to their lack of care for club players. It'll be easier to make a prediction at the end of this next season though. He looks physically stronger already, and he hasn't done too badly in scoring in pre-season. If that continues, a reappraisal will be in order.

For what its worth PoP his goal record at the lower levels with Liverpool is 21 in 49 games if you include U18s, U21s, Youth Cup and NextGen (I don't know his U16s stats but I think he only played two or three times for them anyways. He was signed in the February and playing U18s football by the April). His NextGen record was poor which maybe says something about the higher quality of opposition. He was still performing really well though (won a penalty and should've got at least one more against Ajax first half, as good as any Sporting player at Anfield). His goal record just in the U18s and U21s, ignoring the Youth Cup and NextGen was 14 in 36 (33 starts). Goal every two and a half games. He's usually been under one in three at Liverpool and I hope he gets to that at senior level eventually.

The main thing though is that he always created a lot more than he scored. I don't have the figures to hand on that, but guarantee he'll have far more assists than he will goals. Really wouldn't be at all surprised if his record through the youth groups works out as a goal or an assist per-game.

[PhaseOfPlay]

For what its worth PoP his goal record at the lower levels with Liverpool is 21 in 49 games if you include U18s, U21s, Youth Cup and NextGen (I don't know his U16s stats but I think he only played two or three times for them anyways. He was signed in the February and playing U18s football by the April). His NextGen record was poor which maybe says something about the higher quality of opposition. He was still performing really well though (won a penalty and should've got at least one more against Ajax first half, as good as any Sporting player at Anfield). His goal record just in the U18s and U21s, ignoring the Youth Cup and NextGen was 14 in 36 (33 starts). Goal every two and a half games. He's usually been under one in three at Liverpool and I hope he gets to that at senior level eventually.

The main thing though is that he always created a lot more than he scored. I don't have the figures to hand on that, but guarantee he'll have far more assists than he will goals. Really wouldn't be at all surprised if his record through the youth groups works out as a goal or an assist per-game.

Yeah he's clearly talented, and has displayed that between youth and first team, but I hope he adds goals at his youth rate. That's what will also hold him back, if he can't get to that stage. But he looks sharp in pre-season, and if Coutinho plays behind him, I think Coutinho can find his runs with a lot of great passes. His defensive work is good too, so for me, he just needs to stay fit and to add goals to become the complete package.

[Juan Loco]

Yeah he's clearly talented, and has displayed that between youth and first team, but I hope he adds goals at his youth rate. That's what will also hold him back, if he can't get to that stage. But he looks sharp in pre-season, and if Coutinho plays behind him, I think Coutinho can find his runs with a lot of great passes. His defensive work is good too, so for me, he just needs to stay fit and to add goals to become the complete package.

Said a few times I think he'll suit Coutinho perfectly. The understanding he had with Adorjan at youth level was telepathic (or just muscle memory because trying to release Sterling early was always the first thing Rodolfo's youth team would go to). I don't think he had that player in the team last year and we didn't get as much out of his game as result. The type of runs that got him in behind against Reading and Sunderland are the type he'd try several times a game at the younger levels. With the greatest will in the world, Coutinho's more likely to spot them than Suarez, nevermind the rest of the players.

[PhaseOfPlay]

tbf to the kid he hit the (cross)bar a couple of times last season

Hopefully Rodgers using the mini-goals a lot in training has trained his eye a bit better for more accuracy.

Or as Jay Spearing likes to call them, "full-sized goals"

[PhaseOfPlay]

Is it a matter of accuracy though pop? It seemed to me more a combination of over-eagerness and (overcompensating for the typical rookie) lack of confidence.

Not accuracy, but as you know, training with the smaller goals forces you to think about your shot, rather than lashing it in the general direction of the goal, so they might have given him a reason to "pause for thought" in training, and place his shots, which might be carrying over to the game.

[Juan Loco]

Not accuracy, but as you know, training with the smaller goals forces you to think about your shot, rather than lashing it in the general direction of the goal, so they might have given him a reason to "pause for thought" in training, and place his shots, which might be carrying over to the game.

But isn't a lot of the problem that he takes the wrong sort of shot? You'd expect someone cutting in on their stronger foot to set the shot outside the goal and have it curl back in. Sterling cuts across the ball more often that not and his shot tends to drift away from the goal rather than curl in towards it. I'm guess this is harder for a 'keeper to save when he gets it right, but as a percentage there must be many more goals scored from those areas on the pitch where the ball is set outside the goal and curling inwards, than when the shot is set centrally and 'fades' away?

[rocco]

Just wondering how much game Time do most expect Ibe to get this season or a possible loan ?

[Crosby Nick]

I'm guess this is harder for a 'keeper to save when he gets it right, but as a percentage there must be many more goals scored from those areas on the pitch where the ball is set outside the goal and curling inwards, than when the shot is set centrally and 'fades' away?

Off topic so apologies but I suddenly felt a pang of nostalgia for Robbie Fowler and his shots that did fade away into the corner. Effortless.

[PhaseOfPlay]

But isn't a lot of the problem that he takes the wrong sort of shot? You'd expect someone cutting in on their stronger foot to set the shot outside the goal and have it curl back in. Sterling cuts across the ball more often that not and his shot tends to drift away from the goal rather than curl in towards it. I'm guess this is harder for a 'keeper to save when he gets it right, but as a percentage there must be many more goals scored from those areas on the pitch where the ball is set outside the goal and curling inwards, than when the shot is set centrally and 'fades' away?

There are benefits to both. As you say, if you curl it inwards, the percentage chance of scoring might increase. If you cut across it, though, the percentage chance of a rebound following to your team-mate increases (as long as they are making a back post run). What a small goal does, though (and I'm talking about a 4 ft x 3 ft size goal, like the ones Liverpool use in training), is take away that instinctive shot across the keeper. It forces you to think about your shot, and replace old habits with new ones. So if this transfers over to the game, it should cause Sterling to learn to assess the shot one final time (the way Owen used to) and then select a better shot. The big goal becomes less of a single goal and more like a lot of little 4x3ft goals stacked on top and beside each other. So in his head, he'll be picking which "mini-goal" he will be putting the ball into, rather than trying to get the ball on target in a big goal - if that makes any sense?

Actually, better example - remember the boards at Melwood under Shanks, with the numbers? It's the same concept, only with a single small goal. It's about training the eye and foot to guide the ball to a specific area rather than make a general shot and hope for the best. So if there is any training effect, his accuracy and shot selection should improve this season.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

Just wondering how much game Time do most expect Ibe to get this season or a possible loan ?

doubt he will be loaned.

he looks ready to me for 10-20 games this season...even if half or so will be from the bench.

[PhaseOfPlay]

doubt he will be loaned.

he looks ready to me for 10-20 games this season...even if half or so will be from the bench.

That's probably about right. Same pattern as Sterling, maybe with less starts though.

[GrkStav]

That's probably about right. Same pattern as Sterling, maybe with less starts though.

Fewer starts than Sterling last season for both Sterling and Ibe appears to be a no-brainer.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Fewer starts than Sterling last season for both Sterling and Ibe appears to be a no-brainer.

Sterling can handle the same amount of starts, I think. I don't think he'll get them though.

[rocco]

That's probably about right. Same pattern as Sterling, maybe with less starts though.

Just don't see Rodgers been able to give both plenty of starts next season

[Yorkykopite]

Fewer starts than Sterling last season for both Sterling and Ibe appears to be a no-brainer.

You reckon? For Ibe maybe. But Sterling? I think it's at least possible he'll have the same number of starts and I certainly don't think it's a 'no brainer'.

In some ways he's in a stronger position than he was this time last season. For one thing he's more experienced. He's also better. He's also ahead of Assaidi which I guess he wasn't 12 months ago. And he may even be ahead of Downing, which he certainly wasn't when Brendan Rodgers was bawling at him in Boston those many moons ago. There's Coutinho it's true. But Coutinho has now, evidently, been shifted from the left flank to the middle.

My own view is that Rodgers will start with Sterling. It's then up to the lad himself. If he prospers and continues to develop there's a good chance he'll equal last years minutes. He may well surpass them.

I hope so. He's good.

[Juan Loco]

You reckon? For Ibe maybe. But Sterling? I think it's at least possible he'll have the same number of starts and I certainly don't think it's a 'no brainer'.

In some ways he's in a stronger position than he was this time last season. For one thing he's more experienced. He's also better. He's also ahead of Assaidi which I guess he wasn't 12 months ago. And he may even be ahead of Downing, which he certainly wasn't when Brendan Rodgers was bawling at him in Boston those many moons ago. There's Coutinho it's true. But Coutinho has now, evidently, been shifted from the left flank to the middle.

My own view is that Rodgers will start with Sterling. It's then up to the lad himself. If he prospers and continues to develop there's a good chance he'll equal last years minutes. He may well surpass them.

I hope so. He's good.

Agree with this. The only way I don't think Sterling starts for us is if we both keep Suarez and add another attacker. A pair of fairly big ifs at this point.

[The Flying Pig]

He should be ahead of Downing, if he's still here.

[killer-heels]

He should be ahead of Downing, if he's still here.

Indeed.

Has there been anything about loaning out Ibe? Or is still a bit too young?

[Zeb]

Has there been anything about loaning out Ibe? Or is still a bit too young?

Echo had it earlier in the summer that we'd be looking for loans for Wisdom and Suso but that Sterling and Ibe would be staying and getting games. Things seems to have changed with Wisdom, so I guess that could have changed too?

[GrkStav]

Sterling can handle the same amount of starts, I think. I don't think he'll get them though.

Perhaps Sterling can handle the same number of starts as he had last season.

I really don't see why Ibe would get the same number of starts. On the other hand, everything I've seen from him seems positive. Apart from everything else, his skill in receiving and controlling fizzed balls at his feet has been most impressive and welcome.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Perhaps Sterling can handle the same number of starts as he had last season.

I really don't see why Ibe would get the same number of starts. On the other hand, everything I've seen from him seems positive. Apart from everything else, his skill in receiving and controlling fizzed balls at his feet has been most impressive and welcome.

In the league, you're probably right. But if we go far in one or both of the cups, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ibe getting 19 games. But thinking about it, maybe only 10 of them would be starts, perhaps

[SteLFC91]

Little quote here from Rodgers I read on the official site this morning and found interesting. Maybe we were planning to loan him out but have now decided against it due to how well he's performed?

"Young Jordon Ibe, for 17 years of age, the talk before we came over was that he might need to get experience at a lower level just to get used to playing in front of crowds.

Well, he's not going to play in front of many more than 83,000 and 95,000. So we come back knowing he can play in front of crowds."

http://liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/141396-rodgers-transfer-plans-for-august

[exiledinyorkshire]

you horrible bastards! I stated an Ibe and Sterling thread yesterday just to get all the big knobs talking about them both, and your all in here discussing it behind my back!!

glad I found the debate though. If anything I am starting to think that Ibe has actually got more in his locker. That hazard video is intriguing because the marriage of genuine pace and exceptionally quick feet is the dream. I reckon Ibe has more of both than young Raheem. He has the ability to go past players with a quick shoe shuffle, and then burn them off, and I love the way he always runs on the diagonal, cuts in creates an angel to beat his man.

Now sterling looks better with his passing, and its something which is becoming a very useful tool in his armoury, he has the eye for a threaded pass and the ability to execute it.

fuck i'm excited about these two.

and i'm glad that Rodgers has got them. I think he is the ideal manager for young attacking players. Credit must also go to FSG. what's our model what's the goal? I think they correctly identified the youth production line as the only way to compete long term, and then bought in a man who knows what he is doing. Its sensible, and it could well turn out to be inspired.

well over the top I know, but if we can just be patient for a couple more years I think its going to be good times.

[Red-juvenated]

He would do well as an Impact Sub, especially in open games where both sides are having a go.

Last season Brendan did not bring on too many subs even when the game was crying out for them, hope he uses Stirling and Ibe a lot more this season.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

Now sterling looks better with his passing, and its something which is becoming a very useful tool in his armoury, he has the eye for a threaded pass and the ability to execute it.

sterling can pass but ibe has the ability to play it first time.....and by that i mean he knows when to play it first time rather than try and see if he can run with it.
its something sterling needs to work on.

and something downing enrique and johnson just dont get.

[DanA]

It'll be interesting to see the pecking order of the side come the start of the season. On form you have to say (with Suarez suspended) Sterling should be getting a starting spot. He's outperformed Borini, Aspas, Downing and Alberto IMO.

With a bit over a week to go I don't think any signings not yet at the club will be starting against Stoke. For my money we should be starting Sturridge and Coutinho with Aspas as a sub coming on as Sturridge tires. next in line I'd have Sterling out wide. The question is who's next in line after that and how do we setup? Could very well have Ibe as the fourth attacker or we could play Aspas behind Sturridge in that two striker setup we've experimented with in preseason.  It'll be interesting to see.

[NsRed]

It'll be interesting to see the pecking order of the side come the start of the season. On form you have to say (with Suarez suspended) Sterling should be getting a starting spot. He's outperformed Borini, Aspas, Downing and Alberto IMO.

With a bit over a week to go I don't think any signings not yet at the club will be starting against Stoke. For my money we should be starting Sturridge and Coutinho with Aspas as a sub coming on as Sturridge tires. next in line I'd have Sterling out wide. The question is who's next in line after that and how do we setup? Could very well have Ibe as the fourth attacker or we could play Aspas behind Sturridge in that two striker setup we've experimented with in preseason.  It'll be interesting to see.

Isn't our match with Stoke August 17? Two and a half weeks to go yet, we could very well bring in a 15-20m pound player who takes a starting role right from the get-go. I still think Sterling and Ibe are destined for 70th minute sub appearances to run the opposition ragged. With that said, both Sterling and Ibe have proven themselves as prem-ready contributors for this season.

[The Mule]

It seems to me that Sterling even now is playing within himself a bit when it comes to trying to skin his man (unlike Ibe).

But its like he (Raheem) tries to make up for this by forcing the issue at times with his passing and seems to pass for the sake of it (forced one-twos which ask a lot of his team mates etc.), and he still seems to snatch at his shots a lot.

The both of them are obviously trying really hard to impress at the moment (as they should be), but with their respective attributes its coming more naturally to Ibe.

Having said this there seems to be a real determination to do well with Raheem this preseason, I just hope he mentally relaxes a bit (while still keeping the physical intensity up).

I think Borini is another suffering from the 'I must succeed, or the world will cave in', kind of mentality.

As others have said its exciting having these talented youngsters who are hungry to do well.

[PIPA23]

has to play more this season.. great young player.

[EstonianRed]

has done well today again

[Asam]

Good enough to be on the bench