Topic: Announcement on Anfield redevelopment due Monday

[Earl of Dingleberry]

What happens if that killing doesn't happen and TV moves onto something else ?

Onto what? Eurosport broadcasted rock-paper-scissors tournaments, maybe that's the next big thing instead of football?

[Torpedo Tommy]

Would be interesting to see what the plans are for locl infrastructure which has always been a thorny issue getting those extra 15,000 to and away from the ground, as well as in and ut of the city. Original plans included using the rail line through Walton and putting a new station by the niw defunct Clarence Pub (watch that re-open if that happens!). Even the 1990 plans for a shared stadium included a new Rail station between Kirkby and Fazakerley.

Either way there will be a large number of vehicles and the current infrastructure for cars, particularly, is not suitabe for the current stadium never mind an increased one.

That is a good point.  I reckon the station will soon be critical regardless of the extension.  With the extension of the residential parking permit's to cover well beyond L4 to Walton and the edges of Norris Green (which in fairness is fair do for the residents), with car parks now being built on or being proposed top be built on (Tesco on the Edinburgh Dockers Club etc) and with a lot of the local schools being snapped up by LFC's parking portfolio, there will soon be no where to park.  Or if there is, it will cost well over a tenner.

But yeah, the cost associated with the train station would be considerable.

Bringing a line through from Walton to the Clarence?  Mmmm!  Straight through the pit I say!

[Torpedo Tommy]

Onto what? Eurosport broadcasted rock-paper-scissors tournaments, maybe that's the next big thing instead of football?

 

The FA would still introduce some way of making the result ambiguous!

[Durlmints]

Onto what? Eurosport broadcasted rock-paper-scissors tournaments, maybe that's the next big thing instead of football?

Using rock repeatedly has been described as a 'cancer in the game'

[SweetSilverSevens]

Can someone tell me what houses the club already owns..... I'm aware of the plans and issues for the houses behind the Centenary Stand (Lothair Road ect). But is everything else okay? Have we bought enough houses behind the Main Stand? Are there any issues behind the Kop?

[Groundskeeper Willie]

I am left bemused about the hatred some have for FSG. It´s all well and good to be vigilant and sceptical but some have surpassed that by a country mile and I don´t really understand why.

Someone please explain. This is OT so feel free to PM.

[Torpedo Tommy]

I am left bemused about the hatred some have for FSG. It´s all well and good to be vigilant and sceptical but some have surpassed that by a country mile and I don´t really understand why.

Someone please explain. This is OT so feel free to PM.

I don't think it is totally off topic mate.

I'm a little bemused too.  I see this as what could be a massive step forward.  I'm waiting to see the announcement on Monday to be fair but I think it is FSG's previous blunders that have people thinking that way.  From the appointment of Comolli, the signings in their first two transfer windows, the dismissal of Kenny and Comolli, the handling of transfers, this TV programme (in certain peoples eyes only admittedly).  Their actions have naturally lead to people being suspicious about his latest news.

Other had hung their hat on a new stadium.  Fine, if they had considered what effect financially and historically that would have had on the club.  So in their eyes, staying at Anfield was a disappointment.

FSG were never going to please everyone and likewise, their previous blunders have left them in a situation where they are proving themselves.  When they came in, they had the momentum of the fans relief to help them.  What seemed like a good start in bringing Kenny in soon went a little off track and has been a series of gaffs and unprofessional mishaps.

People will naturally doubt them.  I do.  But I suppose it is to what level you take that doubt.  I'm not at hate level and hope never to reach that level again.

Actions speak louder than words.  The Jury is still out and FSG are still under the microscope.  It is for them to take the club forward and these next twelve months will be analysed more than ever

[Melbred]

I am left bemused about the hatred some have for FSG. It´s all well and good to be vigilant and sceptical but some have surpassed that by a country mile and I don´t really understand why.

Someone please explain. This is OT so feel free to PM.

Indeed, when certain posters are going to the lengths of praising H&G so that they can make their point FSG, you know it's bad.

[smj86]

Next week headlines: "Anfield naming rights sold to highest bidder playwithmyballs betting site"

[Mutton Geoff]

Sorry I forgot FSG have a wild card whenever you criticise them they just use the wild card and have another day zero. Every time they sack someone or someone brings up the Stadium they just hit the reset button and everything that has gone has to be forgotten. So Monday is the day zero for the Stadium, nice one. 

worth repeating he aint wrong

[RedHopper]

Henry's more recent comments on the stadium from the article above:

Hardly a man who's overly committed to sorting the stadium out, and certainly not as a priority. Not without a big helping hand financially which may or may not be there. We just have to wait and see, but i'm not going to get excited at this point.

I think actually he's just being realistic really. It's really not a magic bullet, and it takes a long time and is a very difficult thing to get right. As he says, the big thing that we see is the £40 million extra in turnover, but then there are the costs involved that will eat into that, and the way that you fund it is crucial. The league is full of teams that screwed up stadium expansion because they didn't get the details right.

I think that example of Man utd is kind of inappropriate for us. They had no neighbours or planning difficulties. They funded the first expansion from going public, so there was no debt, or extra annual costs to be paid for out of increased ticket sales. Indeed further expansions were funded out of profits, so they were able to reap the full reward immediately.

The example of Arsenal is a cautionary one for us. To fund their new stadium Arsenal did two things that we should try to avoid. Arsenal Firstly signed up to long term commercial contracts, which only expire next year in order to get funding. This means that though their stadium income exploded, their big commercial deals are miles behind ours for instance. It's meant that over the last six years or so, they would nearly have been as well off to stay at highbury, once you take stadium repayments, and other requirements to do with the debt into account.

The second thing that Arsenal have done is tie themselves to long term bonds that won't be paid off until 2021-23, and they can't pay it off any earlier because they'd have to pay up all the interest up front. Instead they have to keep paying interest on these bonds, and instead have built up a huge cash cushion of nearly £160 million. it's as though they were paying back the money, without the falling interest repayments.

The two lessons for us to learn from arsenal are to get ourselves into as strong a financial position as possible before we proceed, so we can take the financial strain. We need to get our wagebill down to under 50% of turnover. at that point we'll be generating enough cash to build our squad regardless of the stadium. The financially stronger the club, the more options we will have when it comes to dealing with the costs of the stadium expansion. The stronger our TV deal, and the bigger our commercial contracts, the fewer the restrictions that borrowers are likely to put on us.

The thing that arsenal don't seem to have  got right is getting the balance between building a new stadium while continuing to invest in their team. If we renovate anfield We will increase our revenue, but depending on the debt incurred, and once you include interest repayments, and debt repayment, you might only see an extra £10 million a year until the debt is paid off. The question will be how quickly do you pay down the debt, to cut interest payments. The more you pay back in the short term, quicker you are debt free and get the full benefit of a full stadium. It's only then that we'll feel the benefit of the renovated stadium, and we'll have made up ground on the other clubs.

Debt repayments and interest eat into the money available to spend on the squad, and for meeting expenses. If you think about it a self sustaining club typically spends about 50% of turnover on wages, 25% on expenses +Tax, leaving about 25% of turnover for net transfer spending. If we expand our stadium, and increase our income, you have to subtract the cost of servicing the debt, before you get the money you can spend on the squad. It's going to be very difficult to get the balance right.

[Pistolero]

when certain posters are going to the lengths of praising H&G so that they can make their point FSG, you know it's bad.

[Bonaqua]

I am left bemused about the hatred some have for FSG. It´s all well and good to be vigilant and sceptical but some have surpassed that by a country mile and I don´t really understand why.

Someone please explain. This is OT so feel free to PM.

I think the main reason is ideological. Socialism against capitalism. And the failure to accept that one can have common goals in spite of cultural and ideological differences. The day we celebrate winning the league in a redeveloped Anfield with FSG as owners will be quite surreal. In many ways.

[Eeyore]

I think this is the second time you've gone into praise mode for H & G as a stick to bash FSG with.

You lose me there. There's being healthily sceptical and downright myopically hostile and I don't know why Al, but you crossed that line and its blinding you.

Stating that H&G built stadiums isn't praising them it is stating facts, Hicks in particular often built Stadiums that suited him far more than the Club. Once the Stadium was built Hicks would end up magically owning real estate he didn't own before, Ballpark llc is a perfect example.

As for being myopically hostile the thing is maybe some of us are more concerned about getting into bed with corporate America in the hope that the arrangement will be somehow mutually beneficial. That will only work if FSG can marry fiscal success with sporting success something that has so far proved virtually impossible to achieve.

Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies not to make Americans a profit, how have we lost sight of that and become consumed by financial wizardry.

[Wingman]

Roll on 60,000+ fans at Anfield just imagine the racket on a European Night! Boss.

We're giving more tickets to the away fans?

[helmboy_nige]

Wow - negativity rules the day.

FSG don't announce anything - they are doing nothing and deserve nothing but our complete distrust.
Council announces (we think) that the club will be looking to expand the stadium starting 2014 - FSG have taken too long and are to blame for the past regimes lack of movement as well.
Stadium might increase to a 60000+ capacity increasing revenues - Means more daytrippers.  Thanks FSG for fucking up the atmosphere more.

Can't win with you people.

The media were briefed that a decision would take 2 years.  It is only natural that getting the houses cleared to allow for development will take longer.

How this can be spun into bad news is beyond me, but there you go.

[royhendo]

Tom Hicks:
Corinthians - no stadium
Dallas Stars - Stadium built and owned by the City of Dallas. The Stars were tenants.
Texas Rangers - stadium built before Hicks bought the club

George Gillett:
Montreal canadiens - Molson Centre was built before Gillett bought the club

Hicks & Gillett:
Liverpool Football Club - err....

Al, do remind me exactly which stadiums you're on about. You're banging the drum big style in here - which is fair enough but at least get your facts straight. Otherwise people will rightly question how many of the other 'facts' you're throwing around are real.

Come on now. 

[TepidT2O]

The vast majority of fans want to stay at anfield (probably all before we got used to the idea of a new stadium)
It is cheaper to redevelop than new build
You get revenue earlier into the project with a redevelopment than a new build
A redeveloped/new stadium is not the holy grail to success financially for the club.  It needs this and better commercials from on field success.

All of the above are things that are good for the club and the owners.....  What's the alternative?  Stay as we are as they won't be able to turn a profit?  Would seem odd to me.

[FLRed67]

Stating that H&G built stadiums isn't praising them it is stating facts, Hicks in particular often built Stadiums that suited him far more than the Club. Once the Stadium was built Hicks would end up magically owning real estate he didn't own before, Ballpark llc is a perfect example.

As for being myopically hostile the thing is maybe some of us are more concerned about getting into bed with corporate America in the hope that the arrangement will be somehow mutually beneficial. That will only work if FSG can marry fiscal success with sporting success something that has so far proved virtually impossible to achieve.

Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies not to make Americans a profit, how have we lost sight of that and become consumed by financial wizardry.

Except winning trophies now entails finishing ahead of clubs with bottomless pockets owned by billiionaire Arabs and Russians. The world has changed. So we have a choice: find people with the capital and commercial know-how to help us compete for trophies, wherever they are, or become an Aston Villa or Newcastle, or Leeds type of club.

[Suareznumber7]

I hate international breaks.  Too much time in between games for all the moaners to start up about something.  If it's not the stadium it's the "being Liverpool" documentary, if it's not the tv show it's anything we can think of to bash FSG.  People on this site love to moan don't they?

[B0151?]

Err... are you sure:

Tom Hicks:
Corinthians - no stadium
Dallas Stars - Stadium built and owned by the City of Dallas. The Stars were tenants.
Texas Rangers - stadium built before Hicks bought the club

George Gillett:
Montreal canadiens - Molson Centre was built before Gillett bought the club

Hicks & Gillett:
Liverpool Football Club - err....

Al, do remind me exactly which stadiums you're on about. You're banging the drum big style in here - which is fair enough but at least get your facts straight. Otherwise people will rightly question how many of the other 'facts' you're throwing around are real.

[west_london_red]

Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies not to make Americans a profit, how have we lost sight of that and become consumed by financial wizardry.

So who was going to buy us and not want a profit?

[west_london_red]

I hate international breaks.  Too much time in between games for all the moaners to start up about something.  If it's not the stadium it's the "being Liverpool" documentary, if it's not the tv show it's anything we can think of to bash FSG.  People on this site love to moan don't they?

In defence of this site it a repetitive minority, most who are pretty easy to spot.

[Suareznumber7]

In defence of this site it a repetitive minority, most who are pretty easy to spot.

You are probably right but it pulls in more and more every time.  Pretty annoying having to wade through countless posts from people who are only looking for something to moan about. 

[garcia-alonso]

But are these the people who moan about regeneration too?
That's what I don't get.

I think perhaps there's a confusion as to what regeneration means.
At the moment you have a multi billion pound global business (LFC)  sitting in the middle of an area that is one of the worst in Europe in terms of economic deprivation, but with pretty decent housing stock that doesn't need demolishing.
It isn't the people who live in the houses by the stadium who moan about regeneration, it's everyone who cares about the city as a whole, because it's a disgrace that every single day of the week people drive up to Anfield, get out of their car or taxi, do the stadium tour, buy stuff in the Club shop or buy tickets and get back in their car or taxi and leave, without spending a single penny in the area immediately adjacent to the stadium.  Only on matchdays do they use the local shops and pubs and being busy once a fortnight during the football season is not enough to sustain businesses is an area where people have very little disposable income.
As far as I understand it , what the current City council would like to do is to work with the Club to improve the local area so that visitors will want to stay in it and spend their money locally. It's not about knocking houses down and building office blocks or whatever, it's about making it a more pleasant place to visit so that some of the millions of ££ that are spent on matchdays and other days get spent locally so that the local economy is stimulated, thereby providing jobs, etc for local people. Obviously this will go hand in hand with the redevelopment of the current stadium.

How many years is it since the whole new stadium idea was first mooted? We're all pissed off that this has all dragged on for so long. Imagine how you'd feel if you lived in one of the houses that may or may not be affected? Not everyone wants to move out to a shiny new box in the suburbs. They want to live in their own community.

The way the Club has treated local residents  over the years has led to plenty of resentment and I'm not surprised that some of them refuse to jump when the Club says jump.
Sorry if this was a long winded response to the question.

[Mingle]

There'll be new owners before then

thats the spirit!!

[Stussy]

Stating that H&G built stadiums isn't praising them it is stating facts

Al, you really are discrediting yourself mate.

[JohnHobbes]

Stating that H&G built stadiums isn't praising them it is stating facts, Hicks in particular often built Stadiums that suited him far more than the Club. Once the Stadium was built Hicks would end up magically owning real estate he didn't own before, Ballpark llc is a perfect example.

As for being myopically hostile the thing is maybe some of us are more concerned about getting into bed with corporate America in the hope that the arrangement will be somehow mutually beneficial. That will only work if FSG can marry fiscal success with sporting success something that has so far proved virtually impossible to achieve.

Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies not to make Americans a profit, how have we lost sight of that and become consumed by financial wizardry.

What stadiums exactly are these? Alan_X rebutted this and asked you to provide examples (note plural as you stated). If you're seriously trying to use H&G as a stick to beat FSG with then provide some real facts to back that up.

[Eeyore]

Err... are you sure:

Tom Hicks:
Corinthians - no stadium
Dallas Stars - Stadium built and owned by the City of Dallas. The Stars were tenants.
Texas Rangers - stadium built before Hicks bought the club

George Gillett:
Montreal canadiens - Molson Centre was built before Gillett bought the club

Hicks & Gillett:
Liverpool Football Club - err....

Al, do remind me exactly which stadiums you're on about. You're banging the drum big style in here - which is fair enough but at least get your facts straight. Otherwise people will rightly question how many of the other 'facts' you're throwing around are real.

Hicks didn't own the Corinthians he merely entered into a partnership with Corinthians with the intention of building a Stadium.

As for the Dallas Stars they play at the American Airlines Center which was partly funded by the City of Dallas but was owned by Center Operating Company, L.P.

Center Operating Company L.P. Company Profile
Dallas does everything big, and the Center Operating Company is no exception. The company owns and operates the American Airlines Center, a $420 million sports and entertainment arena, built partially with public funds, that opened in 2001. The venue is the home of the Dallas Mavericks pro basketball team, pro hockey's Dallas Stars, and AFL's Dallas Desperados. Center Operating Company charges the teams rent and gets additional revenue from sponsorships, concerts, concessions, and other events, including touring entertainment shows such as Disney on Ice and Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus. The company is a partnership owned by Mavericks owner Mark Cuban and Dallas Stars owner Tom Hicks.

The Texas Rangers might of built there Stadium before it was owned by Hicks but then you would have to look at Hicks close involvement with Bush, the syndicate that owned the Rangers, HKS the Architects and UTIMCO. Particularly Bush appointing Hicks as head of UTIMCO, changing the rules of UTIMCO to allow Hicks to invest UTIMCO's pension funds in projects that involved Bush, Hicks, and HKS .
These are worth a read

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/aug2002/bush-a01.shtml
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~schwrtz/WHPF10.html

Bush's syndicate basically got a free $200m Stadium built and then when Bush became involved in politics moved the Rangers onto his next door neighbour Hicks.

Some thing else worth looking at is the projects HKS the architects who took a chunk of the £40m for doing basically fuck all in Stanley Park completed strangely enough mostly in Texas.

Apogee Stadium, Denton, Texas
UT Arlington College Park Center, Arlington, Texas
Cowboys Stadium, Arlington, Texas
American Airlines Center, Dallas, Texas
Rangers Ballpark in Arlington, Arlington, Texas
Atlantis Paradise Island, The Bahamas
Children's Medical Center (Dallas), Dallas, Texas
Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport Terminal D (International Terminal), Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas
Dell Diamond, Round Rock, Texas
Dr Pepper Ballpark, Frisco, Texas
Pizza Hut Park, Frisco, Texas
Banner Island Ballpark, Stockton, California
Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, Indiana
Lone Star Park, Grand Prairie, Texas
Miller Park, Milwaukee, Wisconsin
The Palazzo, Las Vegas, Nevada
RadioShack Campus, Fort Worth, Texas
Ritz-Carlton – Dallas, Dallas, Texas
TCU's Amon G. Carter Stadium, Fort Worth, Texas (renovations to existing facility)
JCPenney Corporate Headquarters, Plano, Texas
W Dallas Victory Hotel and Residences – Victory Park, Dallas, Texas
U.S. Census Bureau Headquarters, Suitland, Maryland
Venetian Macau, Macau, China
Texas Scottish Rite Hospital, Dallas, Texas
Whole Foods Market Headquarters, Austin, Texas
Winchester Medical Center, Winchester, Virginia
Liverpool Football Club, Stanley Park, Liverpool, England (Stanley Park Stadium)
Club Santos Laguna, Nuevo Estadio Corona, Torreón, Coahuila
U.S. Cellular Field, Chicago, Illinois (2001–2007 renovations)
The Administration building, University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio, Texas
Laredo Ballpark, Laredo, Texas.

It is worth looking back at the original point.

Agreed. But the Club could never have upheld its part of the bargain, and were I an advisor to Liverpool City Council, I would have told them so. As I said I have some sympathy with the Council on this issue because the lack of economic progress in Anfield is troubling. But I do think it was a mistake to base the regeneration of the area around the building of a brand new expensive stadium.

It was public knowledge that the club was having to pay exorbitant interest payments for the leveraged buyout. I can't imagine anyone at the time believing that the addition of another £200 million loan to build a new stadium would also be feasible. If we had to pay for both the interest payments of the leveraged buyout AND the payments for a new stadium, I am convinced we would have fallen into administration and perhaps even relegated.

Anyway I am glad an agreement between the Club and City has been reached. And I hope that the Club will finally move forward and make Anfield and the surrounding areas a much more prosperous and happy place to be.

I think it is abundantly clear that Hicks fully intended to build a Stadium, for me it was probably the key reason he wanted to get involved the Stadium debt would of been leveraged on the Club and he personally would of ended up making money out of someone else paying for a Stadum the way he did with both the Stars and the Rangers. The reason we didn't get a Stadium was for me because of the Subprime mortgage crisis in America if that had happened a couple of years later after we had started construction then that is the position we would of been in.

My last word on the subject is a reminder of what Purslow said about FSG.

"They may say they have money if necessary but I do not take this very seriously. Their eyes only lit up at the idea of other opportunity improvements. An American deal guy simply can't avoid using other people's money if they can.

What FSG are doing is attempting to get the fans to pay for a redeveloped Anfield which FSG will own.

[vivabobbygraham]

What stadiums exactly are these? Alan_X rebutted this and asked you to provide examples (note plural as you stated). If you're seriously trying to use H&G as a stick to beat FSG with then provide some real facts to back that up.

Maybe Al is researching his response. Maybe he is having Sunday roast or having jiggy jiggy. Who knows. What is clear is that there's a bit of piling in here. Give the lad a fucking break. There are plenty of valid points he has made particularly regarding the effect this whole debacle has had on the community that are valid yet seem an irrelevance to some which comes across as shockingly arrogant to those from or close to the area.

EDIT: Lo and behold, Al's response^^

No jiggy jiggy then Al?

[djschembri]

I think perhaps there's a confusion as to what regeneration means.
At the moment you have a multi billion pound global business (LFC)  sitting in the middle of an area that is one of the worst in Europe in terms of economic deprivation, but with pretty decent housing stock that doesn't need demolishing.
It isn't the people who live in the houses by the stadium who moan about regeneration, it's everyone who cares about the city as a whole, because it's a disgrace that every single day of the week people drive up to Anfield, get out of their car or taxi, do the stadium tour, buy stuff in the Club shop or buy tickets and get back in their car or taxi and leave, without spending a single penny in the area immediately adjacent to the stadium.  Only on matchdays do they use the local shops and pubs and being busy once a fortnight during the football season is not enough to sustain businesses is an area where people have very little disposable income.
As far as I understand it , what the current City council would like to do is to work with the Club to improve the local area so that visitors will want to stay in it and spend their money locally. It's not about knocking houses down and building office blocks or whatever, it's about making it a more pleasant place to visit so that some of the millions of ££ that are spent on matchdays and other days get spent locally so that the local economy is stimulated, thereby providing jobs, etc for local people. Obviously this will go hand in hand with the redevelopment of the current stadium.

How many years is it since the whole new stadium idea was first mooted? We're all pissed off that this has all dragged on for so long. Imagine how you'd feel if you lived in one of the houses that may or may not be affected? Not everyone wants to move out to a shiny new box in the suburbs. They want to live in their own community.

The way the Club has treated local residents  over the years has led to plenty of resentment and I'm not surprised that some of them refuse to jump when the Club says jump.
Sorry if this was a long winded response to the question.

LFC is not a multi billion pound global business. It's a football club.

[Eeyore]

Maybe Al is researching his response. Maybe he is having Sunday roast or having jiggy jiggy. Who knows. What is clear is that there's a bit of piling in here. Give the lad a fucking break. There are plenty of valid points he has made particularly regarding the effect this whole debacle has had on the community that are valid yet seem an irrelevance to some which comes across as shockingly arrogant to those from or close to the area.

EDIT: Lo and behold, Al's response^^

No jiggy jiggy then Al?

No too busy proving that Hicks owned 50% of the Stars Stadium and just about to show how Hicks ended up owing a valuable piece that previously belonged to the Rangers, land that he was planning to build a shopping centre on.

[JohnM]

This stadium lark, is becoming a farce, Liverpool Football Club and The City Council need a swift kick up the arse, by way of public response.

When the scum where developing their place and we were winning everything, that's when we should of developed Anfield, The Main Stand and the Anfield road, should of been done after the Centenary and Kop, we could not because the Council stopped it, I don't believe people what to live that close to a Football ground, the council where happy to get the revenue in the City Centre, but did not want to move people out of there homes because there probably not any houses within the City or around the Anfield area they could go.

We cannot compete on the same field financially has the Scum, City, Chelsea and now probably others, If we can generate revenue through the gates and other match day initiatives, we won't be in a position to compete for top players,  no top players no trophies, the more they leave it the gap gets bigger. We could end up like Villa mid table ex European Champions.

These young kids coming through wont want to stay at a mid table team.

[Draex]

Stating that H&G built stadiums isn't praising them it is stating facts, Hicks in particular often built Stadiums that suited him far more than the Club. Once the Stadium was built Hicks would end up magically owning real estate he didn't own before, Ballpark llc is a perfect example.

As for being myopically hostile the thing is maybe some of us are more concerned about getting into bed with corporate America in the hope that the arrangement will be somehow mutually beneficial. That will only work if FSG can marry fiscal success with sporting success something that has so far proved virtually impossible to achieve.

Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies not to make Americans a profit, how have we lost sight of that and become consumed by financial wizardry.

Can you show me proof of FSG making any profit from Liverpool FC in the 2 years they have been here? Thanks. If not kindly shut the fuck up with your constant drivel.

[JohnHobbes]

Hicks didn't own the Corinthians he merely entered into a partnership with Corinthians with the intention of building a Stadium.

As for the Dallas Stars they play at the American Airlines Center which was partly funded by the City of Dallas but was owned by Center Operating Company, L.P.

Center Operating Company L.P. Company Profile
Dallas does everything big, and the Center Operating Company is no exception. The company owns and operates the American Airlines Center, a $420 million sports and entertainment arena, built partially with public funds, that opened in 2001. The venue is the home of the Dallas Mavericks pro basketball team, pro hockey's Dallas Stars, and AFL's Dallas Desperados. Center Operating Company charges the teams rent and gets additional revenue from sponsorships, concerts, concessions, and other events, including touring entertainment shows such as Disney on Ice and Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus. The company is a partnership owned by Mavericks owner Mark Cuban and Dallas Stars owner Tom Hicks.

The Texas Rangers might of built there Stadium before it was owned by Hicks but then you would have to look at Hicks close involvement with Bush, the syndicate that owned the Rangers, HKS the Architects and UTIMCO. Particularly Bush appointing Hicks as head of UTIMCO, changing the rules of UTIMCO to allow Hicks to invest UTIMCO's pension funds in projects that involved Bush, Hicks, and HKS .
These are worth a read

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/aug2002/bush-a01.shtml
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~schwrtz/WHPF10.html

Bush's syndicate basically got a free $200m Stadium built and then when Bush became involved in politics moved the Rangers onto his next door neighbour Hicks.

Some thing else worth looking at is the projects HKS the architects who took a chunk of the £40m for doing basically fuck all in Stanley Park completed strangely enough mostly in Texas.

Apogee Stadium, Denton, Texas
UT Arlington College Park Center, Arlington, Texas
Cowboys Stadium, Arlington, Texas
American Airlines Center, Dallas, Texas
Rangers Ballpark in Arlington, Arlington, Texas
Atlantis Paradise Island, The Bahamas
Children's Medical Center (Dallas), Dallas, Texas
Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport Terminal D (International Terminal), Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas
Dell Diamond, Round Rock, Texas
Dr Pepper Ballpark, Frisco, Texas
Pizza Hut Park, Frisco, Texas
Banner Island Ballpark, Stockton, California
Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, Indiana
Lone Star Park, Grand Prairie, Texas
Miller Park, Milwaukee, Wisconsin
The Palazzo, Las Vegas, Nevada
RadioShack Campus, Fort Worth, Texas
Ritz-Carlton – Dallas, Dallas, Texas
TCU's Amon G. Carter Stadium, Fort Worth, Texas (renovations to existing facility)
JCPenney Corporate Headquarters, Plano, Texas
W Dallas Victory Hotel and Residences – Victory Park, Dallas, Texas
U.S. Census Bureau Headquarters, Suitland, Maryland
Venetian Macau, Macau, China
Texas Scottish Rite Hospital, Dallas, Texas
Whole Foods Market Headquarters, Austin, Texas
Winchester Medical Center, Winchester, Virginia
Liverpool Football Club, Stanley Park, Liverpool, England (Stanley Park Stadium)
Club Santos Laguna, Nuevo Estadio Corona, Torreón, Coahuila
U.S. Cellular Field, Chicago, Illinois (2001–2007 renovations)
The Administration building, University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio, Texas
Laredo Ballpark, Laredo, Texas.

It is worth looking back at the original point.

I think it is abundantly clear that Hicks fully intended to build a Stadium, for me it was probably the key reason he wanted to get involved the Stadium debt would of been leveraged on the Club and he personally would of ended up making money out of someone else paying for a Stadum the way he did with both the Stars and the Rangers. The reason we didn't get a Stadium was for me because of the Subprime mortgage crisis in America if that had happened a couple of years later after we had started construction then that is the position we would of been in.

My last word on the subject is a reminder of what Purslow said about FSG.

"They may say they have money if necessary but I do not take this very seriously. Their eyes only lit up at the idea of other opportunity improvements. An American deal guy simply can't avoid using other people's money if they can.

What FSG are doing is attempting to get the fans to pay for a redeveloped Anfield which FSG will own.

So the Dallas stadium was built partly with public funds and some from the other two teams. I'll give you he was involved in that one even though it took a lot of money from others to get it done.

The Texas Rangers stadium was built before his ownership so I don't see the relevance of stating it here, especially as anything he may have done was only it seems after being given other people's pension funds to do it.

Finally, why have you listed all the things HKS may have been involved with? What relevance does that have with stadia that TH built for teams he owned??

[JohnHobbes]

Maybe Al is researching his response. Maybe he is having Sunday roast or having jiggy jiggy. Who knows. What is clear is that there's a bit of piling in here. Give the lad a fucking break. There are plenty of valid points he has made particularly regarding the effect this whole debacle has had on the community that are valid yet seem an irrelevance to some which comes across as shockingly arrogant to those from or close to the area.

EDIT: Lo and behold, Al's response^^

No jiggy jiggy then Al?

People might not have such an issue with Al's opinions if he constantly didn't include 'facts' to slam FSG that have no truth behind them once investigated. FSG have made mistakes but from his posts, Al seems to be Captain Ahab in this and them his white whale.

[vivabobbygraham]

Can you show me proof of FSG making any profit from Liverpool FC in the 2 years they have been here? Thanks. If not kindly shut the fuck up with your constant drivel.

Think he may be talking about further down the line. Best thing to do would be read the thread and his contribution to it then put it up against yours before deciding who should kindly shut the fuck up.

[rossipersempre]

Can you show me proof of FSG making any profit from Liverpool FC in the 2 years they have been here? Thanks. If not kindly shut the fuck up with your constant drivel.

Al's point wasn't whether they had or not as yet, but that is their intention in the short, medium and long-term. That is what they do, what they are about. I'm not sure what compels you to feel differently, but either way I think your abusive tone here is uncalled for.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

If we are selling naming rights (which seems likely) I'd at least like it to be tasteful,
"Microsoft@Anfield" or "Anfield in association with Apple", I wouldn't want a full rebranding like the Emirates, Etihad etc.

[Eeyore]

Can you show me proof of FSG making any profit from Liverpool FC in the 2 years they have been here? Thanks. If not kindly shut the fuck up with your constant drivel.

Could you show me any losses they have made one thing is for sure the Club is atleast 68m in debt before we even think about funding a possible redevelopment of Anfield. Amazing how no one mentions the £68m debt isn't it or the massive overdraft facilities.