Topic: Climate Emergency is already here. How much worse it gets is still up to us (?)

[Nobby Reserve]

Utter, utter c*nts

Sunak, Cameron and King Charles each take own private jets to travel to Cop28

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/king-charles-sunak-cameron-cop28-private-jets-b2456050.html

[ScottScott]

They don't give a shit. I'd say 90% of those attending don't give a shit. It's a great, paid for, jolly out in Dubai where they can network and arrange their next bung or trip or job or whatever

This doesn't end until those in power make drastic changes to laws and behaviours. It'll never happen and I absolutely dread what the world will look like when it comes to my daughter's future

[Robinred]

A lot of negative press has been directed at the electric vehicle industry related to the mining of lithium, which in DRC in particular, has involved child labour.

Turns out (surprise surprise) much of the information - notwithstanding legitimate concerns - is the work of the fossil fuel lobbyists:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/dec/01/do-electric-cars-have-problem-mining-for-minerals?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

They don't give a shit. I'd say 90% of those attending don't give a shit. It's a great, paid for, jolly out in Dubai where they can network and arrange their next bung or trip or job or whatever

This doesn't end until those in power make drastic changes to laws and behaviours. It'll never happen and I absolutely dread what the world will look like when it comes to my daughter's future

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva has been speaking for the second time here in Dubai.

"We have a collective problem of lack of ambition," Lula tells the summit, saying that current national development goals (NDCs) "are not enough".

Lula adds that Brazil has since adapted its goals aiming to reach climate neutrality by 2050 and its commitments, he says, are far more ambitious than those of more developed nations.

He cites reduced deforestation levels, after the rate of deforestation in Brazil's Amazon dropped to its lowest in six years, space agency data released in August suggested.

But, he cautiously reminds world leaders that "the most vulnerable cannot have to choose between to fight climate change and to fight poverty".

Last month, the country recorded its hottest ever temperature amid a stifling heatwave attributed to the El Niño phenomenon and climate change.

As expected with events like this, security has been tight and we've been hearing the speeches outside the plenary, but I am hoping to spot the president a little later here at Expo City. Let's see how that pans out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/science-environment-67440257

He's spot on, no one with real power to do anything really cares. The science was clear enough decades ago. We shouldn't be in this position, but greed has put us here.

[Bobsackamano]

Think I've finally accepted the idea that the world can avoid catastrophic climate change is over. Do what you want folks, take as many flights as want, buy whatever car you want, eat as much meat as you desire. Nothing any of us can do is going to make a single iota of difference.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/china-coal-addiction-spotlight-climate-ambitions-cop28
Local governments in China approved 50.4GW of new coal power in the first half of 2023. And in 2022, construction started on 50GW of coal capacity, an amount six times as large as the rest of the world combined.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67513901
The country hosting COP28 climate talks aimed at cutting fossil fuel emissions is massively ramping up its own oil production, the BBC has learned.

The United Arab Emirates' state oil firm Adnoc may drill 42% more by 2030, according to analysts considered the international gold standard in oil market intelligence.

[Crumble]

Think I've finally accepted the idea that the world can avoid catastrophic climate change is over. Do what you want folks, take as many flights as want, buy whatever car you want, eat as much meat as you desire. Nothing any of us can do is going to make a single iota of difference.

Don't be so pessimistic. It may be a choice between a large catastrophe and a huge one, but we should still do what we can to limit the damage.

[Bobsackamano]

Don't be so pessimistic. It may be a choice between a large catastrophe and a huge one, but we should still do what we can to limit the damage.

The UK's peak electricity demand is 47GW. China has added 50GW capacity of the dirtiest fuel their is last year and has approved 50GW more in the first 6 months of this year. Meanwhile the world body that's meant to guide us to a sustainable future is effectively in the hands of people who's sole purpose in life is the production and the sale of fossil fuels.

It's done, over. The entire environmental movement is now the orchestra on the titanic.

[Red-Soldier]

The UK's peak electricity demand is 47GW. China has added 50GW capacity of the dirtiest fuel their is last year and has approved 50GW more in the first 6 months of this year. Meanwhile the world body that's meant to guide us to a sustainable future is effectively in the hands of people who's sole purpose in life is the production and the sale of fossil fuels.

It's done, over. The entire environmental movement is now the orchestra on the titanic.

I don't like constantly blaming China for the climate issue.

Historically, the US has been by far the biggest polluter of CO2, with the UK standing alone, in second place.

[Bobsackamano]

I don't like constantly blaming China for the climate issue.

Historically, the US has been by far the biggest polluter of CO2, with the UK standing alone, in second place.

The UK is number 8 in total and per capita

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-which-countries-are-historically-responsible-for-climate-change/

[redbyrdz]

Think I've finally accepted the idea that the world can avoid catastrophic climate change is over. Do what you want folks, take as many flights as want, buy whatever car you want, eat as much meat as you desire. Nothing any of us can do is going to make a single iota of difference.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/china-coal-addiction-spotlight-climate-ambitions-cop28
Local governments in China approved 50.4GW of new coal power in the first half of 2023. And in 2022, construction started on 50GW of coal capacity, an amount six times as large as the rest of the world combined.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67513901
The country hosting COP28 climate talks aimed at cutting fossil fuel emissions is massively ramping up its own oil production, the BBC has learned.

The United Arab Emirates' state oil firm Adnoc may drill 42% more by 2030, according to analysts considered the international gold standard in oil market intelligence.

It isn't, and never was, an either-or situation. Climate change is happening. We were never able to stop it, because lots of damage was done a long time ago when the whole world was powered by coal. However, we can reduce the degree of severity. Reducing emissions is still the right thing to do. Reducing the severity of climate change will hopefully reduce the number of violent storms, the height of floods, and so on.

Whether your individual contribution matters compared to the contribution from whole power plants etc is another matter. But that power plant in China is powering the homes and lives of Chinese people. If all of them also think about their energy demands, they can influence how much power the produces, and how many new ones are being build. And in our connected world, what we do matters to people somewhere else. We all learn from each other. By setting examples with a more sustainable lifestyle, we can show that all that power is not needed.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Don't be so pessimistic. It may be a choice between a large catastrophe and a huge one, but we should still do what we can to limit the damage.

To be fair, in a million years (A blink of an eye in cosmological terms) - the human race will have gone and most traces due to techtonics will have been destroyed with most structures and items being reduced to their component atoms. Even traces of the obvious nuclear war that's coming (I'd guess probably down to an accident of Russian ill-maintained nuclear silos and stockpiles) will not even affect the planet at all.

Perhaps the next race to evolve will do better than us.

When people say the Earth will be destroyed, what they really mean is that it'll be unable to support human life at any meaningful level. The Earth once was a spinning mass of dirt and ice and elements that swam through an accretion disk to form the planet. Life came from that unlikely mess. If humans manage to wipe all life out on the planet** then if life can start from that, it seems odds-on that it can start from a once-thriving planet.


**From all the evidence of nuclear tests and past catastrophies, a full-on nuclear war still would be unlikely to wipe out ALL life - even if a few microbes survived then in a million years, you've probably got more of a chance of life than the initial spark. Because all DNA on Earth is similar, it's probably likely that the same templates of creatures would likely re-evolve.

Then you have the chance of maybe some humans leaving and returning or being in safe places to one day re-emerge.

So that's all right then

[Mister Flip Flop]

I hear Gary Neville is blaming the Glazers for the current state of the climate .

[Red-Soldier]

The takeover of the COP, by the fossil fuel industry, is now complete:
It needs binning and we need a new mechanism.

Cop28 president says there is ‘no science’ behind demands for phase-out of fossil fuels

Exclusive: UAE’s Sultan Al Jaber says phase-out of coal, oil and gas would take world ‘back into caves’

The president of Cop28, Sultan Al Jaber, has claimed there is “no science” indicating that a phase-out of fossil fuels is needed to restrict global heating to 1.5C, the Guardian and the Centre for Climate Reporting can reveal.

Al Jaber also said a phase-out of fossil fuels would not allow sustainable development “unless you want to take the world back into caves”.

The comments were “incredibly concerning” and “verging on climate denial”, scientists said, and they were at odds with the position of the UN secretary general, António Guterres.

Al Jaber made the comments in ill-tempered responses to questions from Mary Robinson, the chair of the Elders group and a former UN special envoy for climate change, during a live online event on 21 November. As well as running Cop28 in Dubai, Al Jaber is also the CEO of the United Arab Emirates’s state oil company, Adnoc, which many observers see as a serious conflict of interest.

More than 100 countries already support a phase-out of fossil fuels and whether the final Cop28 agreement calls for this or uses weaker language such as “phase-down” is one of the most fiercely fought issues at the summit and may be the key determinant of its success. Deep and rapid cuts are needed to bring fossil fuel emissions to zero and limit fast-worsening climate impacts.

Al Jaber spoke with Robinson at a She Changes Climate event. Robinson said: “We’re in an absolute crisis that is hurting women and children more than anyone … and it’s because we have not yet committed to phasing out fossil fuel. That is the one decision that Cop28 can take and in many ways, because you’re head of Adnoc, you could actually take it with more credibility.”

Al Jaber said: “I accepted to come to this meeting to have a sober and mature conversation. I’m not in any way signing up to any discussion that is alarmist. There is no science out there, or no scenario out there, that says that the phase-out of fossil fuel is what’s going to achieve 1.5C.”

Robinson challenged him further, saying: “I read that your company is investing in a lot more fossil fuel in the future.” Al Jaber responded: “You’re reading your own media, which is biased and wrong. I am telling you I am the man in charge.”

Al Jaber then said: “Please help me, show me the roadmap for a phase-out of fossil fuel that will allow for sustainable socioeconomic development, unless you want to take the world back into caves.”

“I don’t think [you] will be able to help solve the climate problem by pointing fingers or contributing to the polarisation and the divide that is already happening in the world. Show me the solutions. Stop the pointing of fingers. Stop it,” Al Jaber said.

Guterres told Cop28 delegates on Friday: “The science is clear: The 1.5C limit is only possible if we ultimately stop burning all fossil fuels. Not reduce, not abate. Phase out, with a clear timeframe.”

Bill Hare, the CEO at Climate Analytics, said: “This is an extraordinary, revealing, worrying and belligerent exchange. ‘Sending us back to caves’ is the oldest of fossil fuel industry tropes: it’s verging on climate denial.”

“Al Jaber is asking for a 1.5C roadmap – anyone who cares can find that in the International Energy Agency’s latest net zero emissions scenario, which says there cannot be any new fossil fuel development. The science is absolutely clear [and] that absolutely means a phase-out by mid-century, which will enhance the lives of all of humanity.”

Prof Sir David King, the chair of the Climate Crisis Advisory Group and a former UK chief scientific adviser, said: “It is incredibly concerning and surprising to hear the Cop28 president defend the use of fossil fuels. It is undeniable that to limit global warming to 1.5C we must all rapidly reduce carbon emissions and phase-out the use of fossil fuels by 2035 at the latest. The alternative is an unmanageable future for humanity.”

Dr Friederike Otto, of Imperial College London, UK, said: “The science of climate change has been clear for decades: we need to stop burning fossil fuels. A failure to phase out fossil fuels at Cop28 will put several millions more vulnerable people in the firing line of climate change. This would be a terrible legacy for Cop28.”

Otto also rejected the claim that fossil fuels are necessary for development in poorer countries, saying that the latest report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change “shows that the UN’s sustainable development goals are not achievable by continuing the current fossil-driven high emission economies. [There are] massive co-benefits that come with changing to a fossil-free world”.

A spokesperson for Cop28 said: “The IEA and IPCC 1.5C scenarios clearly state that fossil fuels will have to play a role in the future energy system, albeit a smaller one. The Cop president was quoting the science, and leading climate experts.

“He has clearly said that the oil and gas industry must tackle scope 1 and 2 emissions [from their operations], must invest in clean energy and clean technologies to address scope 3 emissions [from burning fuels], and that all industry must align around keeping the north star of 1.5C within reach.

“Once again, this is clearly part of a continued effort to undermine the Cop presidency’s tangible achievements and a misrepresentation of our position and successes to date.”

The spokesperson said the presidency had operationalised the loss and damage fund with more than $700m, launched a $30bn private market climate vehicle, brought 51 oil companies to agree decarbonisation targets and 119 countries to sign a pledge to triple renewable energy. “This is just the beginning,” the spokesperson said.

Al Jaber is also head of Masdar, the UAE’s renewable energy company, but his appointment as Cop28 president has been controversial. Shortly before the summit, leaked documents showed that the UAE had planned to use climate meetings with governments to promote oil and gas deals. Al Jaber denied having seen or used the talking points in the documents. Adnoc also has the largest net-zero-busting expansion plans for oil and gas, according to independent analysis.

The issue of a phase-out or phase-down is complicated by the terms not having agreed definitions and by the highly uncertain role of technologies to “abate” emissions, such as carbon capture and storage. “Keeping the Paris agreement targets alive will require a full fossil fuel phase-out, not a vague phase-down relying on unproven technologies,” said Otto.

More than 100 African, European, Pacific and Caribbean countries back a phase-out of unabated fossil fuels. The US, the world’s biggest oil and gas producer, also backs a phase-out. Others, such as Russia, Saudi Arabia and China, reject the call. Both options are on the table at Cop28, as well as proposals to only mention coal, or to not say anything at all about fossil fuels.

Cop26 in Glasgow in 2021 agreed for the first time to “phase down” coal use, but this had been watered down from “phase out” at the last minute, bringing the Cop26 president, Alok Sharma, to tears.

In his conversation with Robinson, Al Jaber also said: “A phase-down and a phase-out of fossil fuel in my view is inevitable. That is essential. But we need to be real serious and pragmatic about it.”

“Hold on. Let me just explain,” he said. “The world will continue to need energy sources. We [UAE] are the only ones in the world today that have been decarbonising the oil and gas resources. We have the lowest carbon intensity.”

This refers to the emissions from the energy used to extract fossil fuels, not the far larger emissions from burning the fuels. “There is no such thing as ‘low carbon’ or ‘lower carbon’ oil and gas,” said Otto.

Numerous commentators have said that negative or embarrassing revelations about Al Jaber and Adnoc increase the pressure on him to deliver a strong Cop28 deal. The Guardian reported recently that state-run UAE oil and gas fields had been flaring gas almost daily despite having committed 20 years ago to a policy of zero routine flaring.

The Guardian previously reported that Adnoc had been able to read emails to and from the Cop28 office until the Guardian raised the issue in June and that the UAE had also failed to report its oil industry’s emissions of the powerful greenhouse gas methane.

Harjeet Singh, at Climate Action Network, said: “Cop28 must deliver a decision on phasing out fossil fuels in a just and equitable manner, without any loopholes or escape routes for the industry to continue expanding and exacerbating the climate crisis.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/03/back-into-caves-cop28-president-dismisses-phase-out-of-fossil-fuels

[BarryCrocker]

The takeover of the COP, by the fossil fuel industry, is now complete:
It needs binning and we need a new mechanism.

Cop28 president says there is ‘no science’ behind demands for phase-out of fossil fuels

Exclusive: UAE’s Sultan Al Jaber says phase-out of coal, oil and gas would take world ‘back into caves’

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/03/back-into-caves-cop28-president-dismisses-phase-out-of-fossil-fuels

Sounds exactly like 'Big Tobacco' when they were in front of the courts in the 90's.

[Nobby Reserve]

This is what all these kind of evil scum do with all manner of issues. They identify movements that seek to eradicate their power and economic gain, and work their way inside - buying influence, using their vast fortunes to 'wash' their reputations.

Before long, the organisation has been utterly corrupted and it's just a plastic shadow of what it was, able to be manipulated by the evil scum for their own benefit.



(I realised when I was typing that I could also be talking about football...)

[Bioluminescence]

Sounds exactly like 'Big Tobacco' when they were in front of the courts in the 90's.

They're definitely following the same playbook. The book Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway exposes the thread between Big Tobacco and Big Oil via the hole in the ozone layer and acid rain. "Back into caves" also attacks existing solutions, which is where a lot of the focus from deniers is on as the scientific evidence is pretty much indisputable at this point.

It's worth remembering that things are progressing, even if it doesn't often feel like it. In her latest newsletter, Katharine Hayhoe says that only ten years ago we were heading for a warming of 5C by the end of the century, but that this scenario is now impossible thanks to the action we've taken. In all likelihood it's still going to get bad but every step that we take, however small, will make a difference. There's no point of no return as such, and how bad it gets still depends on what we choose to do now.

[Nobby Reserve]

Very localised, but that Panorama on the crooked scumbags at United Utilities had my blood boiling.

They're praised as one of the best-performing water companies in terms of raw sewage dumping incidents, but they're actually one of the worst. They just internally downgrade the severity of incidents to the lowest level, which aren't counted in the figures.

They're helped by the Environment Agency being so chronically underfunded by successive governments (but especially so since 2010) that they cannot attend more than a tiny fraction of incidents.

The ruse used by UU is to have an internal investigation and then, when the EA advise they won't be attending, UU downgrade the incident to 'no environmental impact'. Some fat, Tory c*nt from UU who was interviewed by Panorama was lying through his arse. Whistleblowers told the actual truth.

This country is so corrupt. There's a sickening attitude that everything should be open for a minority of rich people to milk for even more money.

I just want a government that takes on these evil, greedy vermin and hammers them financially. Then uses that money to properly fund public services.

[Red Beret]

Very localised, but that Panorama on the crooked scumbags at United Utilities had my blood boiling.

They're praised as one of the best-performing water companies in terms of raw sewage dumping incidents, but they're actually one of the worst. They just internally downgrade the severity of incidents to the lowest level, which aren't counted in the figures.

They're helped by the Environment Agency being so chronically underfunded by successive governments (but especially so since 2010) that they cannot attend more than a tiny fraction of incidents.

The ruse used by UU is to have an internal investigation and then, when the EA advise they won't be attending, UU downgrade the incident to 'no environmental impact'. Some fat, Tory c*nt from UU who was interviewed by Panorama was lying through his arse. Whistleblowers told the actual truth.

This country is so corrupt. There's a sickening attitude that everything should be open for a minority of rich people to milk for even more money.

I just want a government that takes on these evil, greedy vermin and hammers them financially. Then uses that money to properly fund public services.

I'd love it if vermin like that were dragged out and someone took hammers to their hands.

[Red-Soldier]

Very localised, but that Panorama on the crooked scumbags at United Utilities had my blood boiling.

They're praised as one of the best-performing water companies in terms of raw sewage dumping incidents, but they're actually one of the worst. They just internally downgrade the severity of incidents to the lowest level, which aren't counted in the figures.

They're helped by the Environment Agency being so chronically underfunded by successive governments (but especially so since 2010) that they cannot attend more than a tiny fraction of incidents.

The ruse used by UU is to have an internal investigation and then, when the EA advise they won't be attending, UU downgrade the incident to 'no environmental impact'. Some fat, Tory c*nt from UU who was interviewed by Panorama was lying through his arse. Whistleblowers told the actual truth.

This country is so corrupt. There's a sickening attitude that everything should be open for a minority of rich people to milk for even more money.

I just want a government that takes on these evil, greedy vermin and hammers them financially. Then uses that money to properly fund public services.

Haven't watched it yet, but will do.

I especially agree with the bolded part!

[Bobsackamano]

Great news, the next COP is in Azerbaijan! 🤣🤣

[BarryCrocker]

Great news, the next COP is in Azerbaijan! 🤣🤣

Surprised it's not being held on The Thwaites Glacier.

[reddebs]

So the national grid would rather fire up fossil fuel power stations in times of extra usage than make use of battery storage meaning thousands of tons of extra co2 are being released into the atmosphere.

Does it cost them more to use the batteries I wonder?

[Nobby Reserve]

So the national grid would rather fire up fossil fuel power stations in times of extra usage than make use of battery storage meaning thousands of tons of extra co2 are being released into the atmosphere.

Does it cost them more to use the batteries I wonder?

It costs a chain of private companies who do the generation a slug of profit.

[BarryCrocker]

Fossils fuels aren't the problem, it's the gases released from burning them.

Haitham Al Ghais - OPEC Secretary General

[Nobby Reserve]

Mosquitos able to transmit tropical diseases will be prevalent in the UK within 20-30 years if temperature rises are at the more severe end of predictions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67654008

[Nobby Reserve]

Nobody could have seen this coming! You know... at a COP gathering hosted by Dubai and with a president from Abu Dhabi!

COP28: UN climate talks in jeopardy in fossil fuel backlash

The UN climate talks in Dubai could be in jeopardy after some nations reacted furiously to a draft deal on fossil fuels they call "weak".
The draft removed language included in a previous text suggesting that fossil fuels could be "phased out".
.....

A draft text published on Saturday confirmed that one option for the talks outcome was a "phase out of fossil fuels in line with best available science".

On Monday, another draft was published that deleted mentions of "phase out". Instead it said nations should "reduce consumption and production of fossil fuels in a just, orderly and equitable manner".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67679732

[Mister Flip Flop]

Disastrous outcome. They spent days arguing over wording and as expected did the square root of fuck all to address the issue.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

I mean, it's a summit about fossil fuels led by the head of an oil business that has explicit plans to expand, and absolutely no intention of doing anything about fossil fuels. It's completely absurd and an utter waste of everyone's time and resources.

[jillcwhomever]

Very localised, but that Panorama on the crooked scumbags at United Utilities had my blood boiling.

They're praised as one of the best-performing water companies in terms of raw sewage dumping incidents, but they're actually one of the worst. They just internally downgrade the severity of incidents to the lowest level, which aren't counted in the figures.

They're helped by the Environment Agency being so chronically underfunded by successive governments (but especially so since 2010) that they cannot attend more than a tiny fraction of incidents.

The ruse used by UU is to have an internal investigation and then, when the EA advise they won't be attending, UU downgrade the incident to 'no environmental impact'. Some fat, Tory c*nt from UU who was interviewed by Panorama was lying through his arse. Whistleblowers told the actual truth.

This country is so corrupt. There's a sickening attitude that everything should be open for a minority of rich people to milk for even more money.

I just want a government that takes on these evil, greedy vermin and hammers them financially. Then uses that money to properly fund public services.

This.

[Mister Flip Flop]

I mean, it's a summit about fossil fuels led by the head of an oil business that has explicit plans to expand, and absolutely no intention of doing anything about fossil fuels. It's completely absurd and an utter waste of everyone's time and resources.

Well at least the world's governments and their PR people can jump back on their private jets and head home safe in the knowledge they've done fuck all. Meanwhile here in Ireland we are cutting solar panel and electric car grants to encourage people to change 

All you can do is laugh

[Nobby Reserve]

I mean, it's a summit about fossil fuels led by the head of an oil business that has explicit plans to expand, and absolutely no intention of doing anything about fossil fuels. It's completely absurd and an utter waste of everyone's time and resources.

That's the price of letting the evil Gulf dictatorships control the climate change agenda.

Six of the nine biggest GHG emitting countries per capita are the Gulf states (Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, UAE, Oman, Saud Arabia)

But 'the west' drops their trousers for the oil money.

​​​​​​​The world is utterly fucked-up.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Until politicians start being honest with electorates over the reality of what's coming down the line in terms of catastrophic climate change, and the enormous and radical changes needed to mitigate the worst of it, then we'll continue to hurtle towards the worst possible outcomes. But climate justice means radical social change, huge redistribution of wealth, vast investment in infrastructure, transformations in agriculture and energy production, re-localisation of economies, and actual valuing of the wonders of the natural world (rather than the endless, soulless debates around carbon). I don't see any mainstream, powerful politicians with the imagination or intellect to start grasping these nettles... nor a media prepared to move the conversation that way.

It's all about how we can carry on behaving as we have for the last few decades... somehow... The possibility of wisdom, that we might be wanting to learn a lesson or two here and actually change? That's not even on the table, is it?

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

The possibility of wisdom, that we might be wanting to learn a lesson or two here and actually change? That's not even on the table, is it?

Great post.

I've been on about this for years and most people aren't even prepared to listen. Very few are prepared to change in any meaningful way, as you say the real situation is never mentioned. Very few have even the faintest idea where we're heading or what needs to be done.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

celebrating this deal would be like "celebrating flowers that will lie on our grave"

More reaction now from the group of small island states, who are particularly vulnerable to climate change and earlier criticised parts of the deal - and said they weren't in the room when it was approved.

Climate campaigner Drue Slater, from Fiji, responds to the countries who say the deal has sent a signal that the fossil fuel era will be ending. "The time for signalling is long past," she says.

Meanwhile activist Brianna Fruean, from Samoa, says More reaction now from the group of small island states, who are particularly vulnerable to climate change and earlier criticised parts of the deal - and said they weren't in the room when it was approved.

Climate campaigner Drue Slater, from Fiji, responds to the countries who say the deal has sent a signal that the fossil fuel era will be ending. "The time for signalling is long past," she says.

Meanwhile activist Brianna Fruean, from Samoa, says celebrating this deal would be like "celebrating flowers that will lie on our grave". "How can you ask us to do that?"

She says there are "small bits... of success" but that part of it "still crosses the 1.5C line", on which she says the islands' survival rests.

"When we were invited by the president [of COP] we were told this would be a "historic win... It's almost like the spirit of how we began this COP is not how were ending.". "How can you ask us to do that?"

She says there are "small bits... of success" but that part of it "still crosses the 1.5C line", on which she says the islands' survival rests.

"When we were invited by the president [of COP] we were told this would be a "historic win... It's almost like the spirit of how we began this COP is not how were ending."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-67674841

[thaddeus]

celebrating this deal would be like "celebrating flowers that will lie on our grave"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-67674841

"When we were invited by the president [of COP] we were told this would be a "historic win... It's almost like the spirit of how we began this COP is not how were ending.".

I think they've been led on a merry dance.

The early concession of "climate loss and damage fund" pledges gave the veneer of a successful conference.  If that money is spent wisely it will help mitigate the bigger problems but by getting those pledges in so early they reduced the bargaining power of countries to haggle better terms on the ambitions of the conference.  Germany, for example, were quick to commit money to that fund but later on said they couldn't support the underwhelming draft deal.  I'm not saying it's right but it inevitably seems the case with these conferences that ultimately money talks and any funds committed are done so with strings attached.

The final text is mealy mouthed with talk of "moving away" from fossil fuels rather than "phasing them out".  I guess given the hosts it's as much as we could hope for but I dare say the backroom deals done by the UAE will far, far outweigh any benefits.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Great post.

I've been on about this for years and most people aren't even prepared to listen. Very few are prepared to change in any meaningful way, as you say the real situation is never mentioned. Very few have even the faintest idea where we're heading or what needs to be done.

I don't think we can hope for any global leadership on this - our politicians are entirely in thrall to ideas of "progress", "growth" and technological solutions to everything. That's when they are not just outright corrupt and the puppets of mega-corporations and oligarchs and tyrants. Aim for local changes, for stronger, more resilient communities, however small - build healthy economies and ways of doing things from the ground up - that's the only realistic positive change we can make right now in the face of the disastrous, weak, irresponsible leaders that nations across the world have been electing.

It doesn't seem much compared to the mega-conferences and the bullshit net zero schemes and all the other razzmatazz, but I think this approach might end up being more positive than any of those, and at least it empowers us instead of leaving us looking on in despair as oil despots decide the agendas and outcomes of climate change conferences.

[Black Bull Nova]

COP is a bit like FIFA these days, loads of overpaid people using millions of gallons of jet fuel to agree nothing


Should call it COP out

[Mister Flip Flop]

Great post.

I've been on about this for years and most people aren't even prepared to listen. Very few are prepared to change in any meaningful way, as you say the real situation is never mentioned. Very few have even the faintest idea where we're heading or what needs to be done.

There is no leadership to speak of and nobody willing to take responsibility to avoid the coming disaster. Politicians think in 4-5 year cycles (the next election) and couldn't give a shit about 30 years from now but that said football fans are as bad and point fingers and blame politicians whilst they fly to European aways 5-6 times a season and drive up and down the country every other week to see their team.

We've had all the warnings and still we do nothing so in a way we deserve all that's coming.

[Red-Soldier]

I don't think we can hope for any global leadership on this - our politicians are entirely in thrall to ideas of "progress", "growth" and technological solutions to everything. That's when they are not just outright corrupt and the puppets of mega-corporations and oligarchs and tyrants. Aim for local changes, for stronger, more resilient communities, however small - build healthy economies and ways of doing things from the ground up - that's the only realistic positive change we can make right now in the face of the disastrous, weak, irresponsible leaders that nations across the world have been electing.

It doesn't seem much compared to the mega-conferences and the bullshit net zero schemes and all the other razzmatazz, but I think this approach might end up being more positive than any of those, and at least it empowers us instead of leaving us looking on in despair as oil despots decide the agendas and outcomes of climate change conferences.

WE had the first ever county COP, in September.

Lots of stuff going on here, locally.  It feels great.

[Bioluminescence]

WE had the first ever county COP, in September.

Lots of stuff going on here, locally.  It feels great.

It's great to hear, too. This has got to be the way forward while vested interests get to dictate so much at the global, political level. Provide solutions locally, highlighting co-benefits, and I reckon most people will join in.