Topic: I'm really genuinely concerned...no rant intended

[CraigDS]

Kenny getting sacked cost them nothing, he took nothing, but I understand your point. There were people who didn't want Kenny sacked but if you went on to Twitter or Facebook or even on here, people were calling for Kenny to be sacked. There were Facebook groups and Twitter trends and the media had the knives out. It was unpopular with a lot of people, but there were also a lot of people who were happy to see him go.

FSG didn't put any money into the transfers as far as I'm aware, but I'm happy to be corrected.

The thing that bugs me though is if you ask yourself, what kind of man is John Henry? He completely ignored Kenny at the FA Cup final after shaking everyone else's hands. The man who had fought tooth and nail for the club last season and for many years before who looked emotionally and physically drained from the media hunt against him, and he wasn't even shown the respect of getting a handshake after giving his all.

Kenny not taking a pay off was a false rumour wasn't it? He was fully entitled to one. The easy choice, what the vast, vast, majority would of been happy with, was to keep him. If they had no interest then this is what they'd of done imo.

They put £30m into the club upto July 2011, its in the accounts filed. Anything since then won't be shown until early next year when accounts to July 12 are filed.

I agree with the last point. Even if (and it is an if) Henry was bitterly disappointed and in a shitty mood, ignoring him shouldn't of happened.

[CraigDS]

Honestly come on now? You think Kenny was going to stand by and let them drain the club.

btw not saying that's what is going to happen but the need to get rid of Kenny in the tale of gloom that Matt8Pie paints is pretty obvious.

Drain the club? You mean getting rid of Kuyt (own choice), Maxi (probably in part down to Kenny but again own choice) and probably Aquilani (Kenny sent him on loan once) and Carroll (who would of been kept under Kenny so wouldn't of been an issue).

[SerbianScouser]

Well this thread got me well depressed...

[Matt8Pie]

Kenny not taking a pay off was a false rumour wasn't it? He was fully entitled to one. The easy choice, what the vast, vast, majority would of been happy with, was to keep him. If they had no interest then this is what they'd of done imo.

They put £30m into the club upto July 2011, its in the accounts filed. Anything since then won't be shown until early next year when accounts to July 12 are filed.

I agree with the last point. Even if (and it is an if) Henry was bitterly disappointed and in a shitty mood, ignoring him shouldn't of happened.

I didn't hear it was a false rumour, I heard it was true.

Have you got a link to the accounts?

[CraigDS]

I didn't hear it was a false rumour, I heard it was true.

Have you got a link to the accounts?

They were posted on here mate, not sure where exactly, was discussed a fair bit (think April/May time). You could get them from companies house website direct but will cost a few quid I think.

Yeah as said not sure if it was true or not with regards to Kenny taking the payoff, heard both stories so no idea. Again guess will be something the future accounts will show. Although not sure if FSG knew he wouldn't take the money when they got rid of him so maybe not part of their thinking.

[CraigDS]

Kenny was damaging the brand with his support of that dastardly racist Luis Suarez. And Kenny seemed to prioritize minor competitions for shiny things ahead of revenue streams, the bloody fool.

Then why hasn't Suarez been pushed out the door? If Kenny was damaging it in support of him, then surely Suarez has done more so?

[Kopitian]

I just think FSG and in particular john henry bit off more than he could chew.

Somehow i feel at the back of his mind that he could make the same kind of success he did with the red sox..ie come in.. get moneyball system in place..1 season later.. win world series,

Unfortunately.. this whole soccernomics or whatever it is called is not getting us anywhere nearer to where we were since rafa left us in 5th.

If u ask me.. i think Liverpool football club is bleeding johns wallets dry.. and hes desperate to find everyway to cut cost while at the same time making us believe that this  FSG system is really "the liverpool way"

[Noelle]

I didn't hear it was a false rumour, I heard it was true.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2012/05/19/blood-red-ex-liverpool-fc-boss-kenny-dalglish-didn-t-give-up-his-pay-off-100252-31001322/

[Matt8Pie]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2012/05/19/blood-red-ex-liverpool-fc-boss-kenny-dalglish-didn-t-give-up-his-pay-off-100252-31001322/

Ah, ta.

[Saul Goodman]

Drain the club? You mean getting rid of Kuyt (own choice), Maxi (probably in part down to Kenny but again own choice) and probably Aquilani (Kenny sent him on loan once) and Carroll (who would of been kept under Kenny so wouldn't of been an issue).

Streamlined, drained whatever words you want to use. I'm not sure why you've just listed a load of player with reasons why they left? My post was in relation to the doomsday scenarios outlined in this thread by some for which you said it would make no sense to get rid of Kenny. Getting rid of Kenny would have been the first step and the second would be bringing in a patsy for anyone playing this chess game.

[CraigDS]

I would imagine partly because he's one ouf our best players and partly because he shifts a lot of t-shirts. It's easier to forgive players in circumstances like that.

Not sure I can buy they are prepared to keep Suarez (who constantly brings it up, and even with shirt sakes would bring in a massive fee) yet push Kenny out the door for it.

[liverpooll]

For me the true test of the owners is whether they give the new manager enough time and whether they act quickly on the stadium. Up to now my opinion is that there is no huge reason to fault them--I can understand their broader strategic choices even if I don't agree with them.

We really can forget about the stadium part if we are going to continuing to be getting mid-table positions. 45K seems more than more enough for a mid-table side. Thus, the pressure is all about on pitch performances and the "time" is given if there are reasons to believe that things are improving. With Kenny, it were little signs.

[Matt8Pie]

Not sure I can buy they are prepared to keep Suarez (who constantly brings it up, and even with shirt sakes would bring in a massive fee) yet push Kenny out the door for it.

Sacking Kenny was unpopular. Selling Suarez who everyone is rallying behind and is also our best player and there would be a lot of people pissed off. Saying that though, I imagine the club will go with the "we've rejected a bid" and then "x player has handed a transfer request" before selling when it does come as they seem to favour that route.

[CraigDS]

Streamlined, drained whatever words you want to use. I'm not sure why you've just listed a load of player with reasons why they left? My post was in relation to the doomsday scenarios outlined in this thread by some for which you said it would make no sense to get rid of Kenny. Getting rid of Kenny would have been the first step and the second would be bringing in a patsy for anyone playing this chess game.

Because most of the people thinking doomsday might happen are basing it on the club cutting the wage bill as they have. And those players I listed are the ones who have gone, since Kenny has, to cut it. None of which I think Kenny would of been too fussed about.

Anything suggestions about what may or may not happen beyond this is baseless and useless even discussing as could be a billion scenarios that play out.

[careful on these streets, I've heard stories]

Kenny was damaging the brand with his support of that dastardly racist Luis Suarez. And Kenny seemed to prioritize minor competitions for shiny things ahead of revenue streams, the bloody fool.

So the cups were more important than the League?

[CraigDS]

Sacking Kenny was unpopular. Selling Suarez who everyone is rallying behind and is also our best player and there would be a lot of people pissed off. Saying that though, I imagine the club will go with the "we've rejected a bid" and then "x player has handed a transfer request" before selling when it does come as they seem to favour that route.

Sacking Kenny was way beyond unpopular. You saw the reaction on here didn't you?

Getting rid of Suarez would be equally so, I get that, but all I'm saying is if the reason to get rid of Kenny was the Suarez-gate then we'd see Suarez head out the door too.

As for the last sentence, is that referring to Torres? I think we'd of all of taken £50m for him at the time. Merieles may be the other you're on about, and I've no idea what happened there to make that move happen, from either side of the coin.

[careful on these streets, I've heard stories]

Sacking Kenny was way beyond unpopular. You saw the reaction on here didn't you?

Getting rid of Suarez would be equally so, I get that, but all I'm saying is if the reason to get rid of Kenny was the Suarez-gate then we'd see Suarez head out the door too.

As for the last sentence, is that referring to Torres? I think we'd of all of taken £50m for him at the time. Meireles may be the other you're on about, and I've no idea what happened there to make that move happen, from either side of the coin.

Mate, Kenny already signed Meireles replacement in Henderson so there was no way we were going to keep him. Transfer requests just help to ensure the club receive the full transfer fee.

[CraigDS]

Mate, Kenny already signed Meireles replacement in Henderson so there was no way we were going to keep him. Transfer requests just help to ensure the club receive the full transfer fee.

No, I got that. I more just meant if it was a Kenny, FSG, Merieles decision, decision. Wanted exceptionally high wages, some silly clauses, whatever.

[tomred]

Sacking Kenny was way beyond unpopular. You saw the reaction on here didn't you?

Getting rid of Suarez would be equally so, I get that, but all I'm saying is if the reason to get rid of Kenny was the Suarez-gate then we'd see Suarez head out the door too.

The main reason Kenny was sacked was surely league position. The handling of the Suarez/Evra thing probably didn't help but no way was it the main factor.

[CraigDS]

The main reason Kenny was sacked was surely league position. The handling of the Suarez/Evra thing probably didn't help but no way was it the main factor.

Would be my guess. Which goes against FSG have no interest in improving the side and happy with mid table.

[Aaron Cross]

Well this thread got me well depressed...

yeh me too, I was pretty optimistic about things till I started reading this thread, not any more

[tomred]

Would be my guess. Which goes against FSG have no interest in improving the side and happy with mid table.

Agree.

[Noelle]

No, I got that. I more just meant if it was a Kenny, FSG, Meireles decision, decision. Wanted exceptionally high wages, some silly clauses, whatever.

Depends who you believe. One of the stories doing the rounds was that when Raul came he agreed a contract on relatively low wages on the understanding his pay would go up, we didn't want to give him that previously agreed upon pay raise (if we even wanted to give him one at all), and he asked to leave.

[Suareznumber7]

Is it me or aren't all of these purely managerial decisions? Hard to fault FSG for Hodgson's and Dalglish's choices. No?

Don't you know that FSG are pulling all the strings from above without allowing the managers to do their jobs

[Matt8Pie]

Sacking Kenny was way beyond unpopular. You saw the reaction on here didn't you?

Getting rid of Suarez would be equally so, I get that, but all I'm saying is if the reason to get rid of Kenny was the Suarez-gate then we'd see Suarez head out the door too.

As for the last sentence, is that referring to Torres? I think we'd of all of taken £50m for him at the time. Meireles may be the other you're on about, and I've no idea what happened there to make that move happen, from either side of the coin.

I don't think Kenny got sacked because of Suarez, to be perfectly honest. I see where you're coming from though but I think if they wanted rid then they would've done it in January or earlier this summer.

Yep, I'm referring to Torres and Meireles. I doubt they'll be the last. There were plenty of people, myself included, saying not to sell him when the £50m figure came in and we were right. We haven't replaced him still.

[Saul Goodman]

Because most of the people thinking doomsday might happen are basing it on the club cutting the wage bill as they have. And those players I listed are the ones who have gone, since Kenny has, to cut it. None of which I think Kenny would of been too fussed about.

Anything suggestions about what may or may not happen beyond this is baseless and useless even discussing as could be a billion scenarios that play out.

Sigh, I am not saying that the end game has nefarious intentions but if you come at it from the angle it does then getting rid of Kenny would've been the first move. Whether he would've or wouldn't have agreed to players leaving has nothing to do with that first move needed to further a bigger game plan.

[Suareznumber7]

Kenny getting sacked cost them nothing, he took nothing, but I understand your point. There were people who didn't want Kenny sacked but if you went on to Twitter or Facebook or even on here, people were calling for Kenny to be sacked. There were Facebook groups and Twitter trends and the media had the knives out. It was unpopular with a lot of people, but there were also a lot of people who were happy to see him go.

That actually turned out not to be true

[Matt8Pie]

That actually turned out not to be true

Yep, rectified earlier mate.

[CraigDS]

Depends who you believe. One of the stories doing the rounds was that when Raul came he agreed a contract on relatively low wages on the understanding his pay would go up, we didn't want to give him that previously agreed upon pay raise (if we even wanted to give him one at all), and he asked to leave.

Yeah heard that, but surely this would of been written into the contract. Especially given he joined the club knowing it was going to be sold soon (and if he didn't know his agent/lawyers should of done). If not then as well as sacking us off he should of sacked his agent off.

[Matt8Pie]

Yeah heard that, but surely this would of been written into the contract. Especially given he joined the club knowing it was going to be sold soon (and if he didn't know his agent/lawyers should of done). If not then as well as sacking us off he should of sacked his agent off.

Meireles wanted to finish his career at Liverpool, he never wanted to leave. The club pushed him out. Livbes on here met Kuyt on a plane last summer and confirmed the club fucked him over.

£10-12m or whatever it was and a £7m replacement.

[CraigDS]

There were plenty of people, myself included, saying not to sell him when the £50m figure came in and we were right. We haven't replaced him still.

I wouldn't say you were right as he certainly hasn't shown himself to be worth anywhere close to £50m since moving.

And it appears Kenny/Comolli were given it all to spend so they are the ones to blame for not replacing him.

[CraigDS]

Meireles wanted to finish his career at Liverpool, he never wanted to leave. The club pushed him out. Livbes on here met Kuyt on a plane last summer and confirmed the club fucked him over.

Then begs the question why he never had it written in his contract for a rise after a year (as many do) knowing the club and personnel would change and any agreement with Purslow would not then be with the next owners and/or manager.

[Matt8Pie]

I wouldn't say you were right as he certainly hasn't shown himself to be worth anywhere close to £50m since moving.

And it appears Kenny/Comolli were given it all to spend so they are the ones to blame for not replacing him.

I don't want to get into the Torres argument but he wouldn't have had that slump had he stayed. He was looking back to his best and then the week for months after looked like a pub team player and he couldn't be arsed.

Second point, I agree. I blame Kenny and Comolli for that.

[CraigDS]

Sigh, I am not saying that the end game has nefarious intentions but if you come at it from the angle it does then getting rid of Kenny would've been the first move. Whether he would've or wouldn't have agreed to players leaving has nothing to do with that first move needed to further a bigger game plan.

Possibly. Not certain Rodger's seems the type to sit back quietly either but suppose IF their game plan is to fuck the club over getting rid of Kenny would be a good step.

No evidence of it happening so far so maybe could of kept him longer and cut down on paying him off. And getting grief from the fans. And paying out for Rodgers and his staff. And then having the inevitable new manager wanting new players and get rid of old ones as is happening (Kenny may of felt he could improve the ones he had spent big money on). Etc.

[Matt8Pie]

Then begs the question why he never had it written in his contract for a rise after a year (as many do) knowing the club and personnel would change and any agreement with Purslow would not then be with the next owners and/or manager.

No idea on that one, I'm afraid!

[Noelle]

Yep, I'm referring to Torres and Meireles. I doubt they'll be the last. There were plenty of people, myself included, saying not to sell him when the £50m figure came in and we were right. We haven't replaced him still.

Disagree re:sell/not sell, but not adequately replacing him falls squarely on the shoulders of Kenny and Comolli. They're the ones who decided to go out looking for a replacement at the last minute instead of making due for six months (whether or not this is in itself the right call we can debate all day), and they're the ones who made that absolute balls of a deal for Andy. And, okay, Comolli was only there because of FSG but end of the day it's not like John Henry rolled up to Melwood in his car with Andy riding shotgun.

[CraigDS]

I don't want to get into the Torres argument but he wouldn't have had that slump had he stayed. He was looking back to his best and then the week for months after looked like a pub team player and he couldn't be arsed.

Second point, I agree. I blame Kenny and Comolli for that.

Surely the decision to sell him was also Kennys/Comolli? Given it made no difference to FSG as they handed over the whole £50m for them to spend.

[Matt8Pie]

Surely the decision to sell him was also Kennys/Comolli? Given it made no difference to FSG as they handed over the whole £50m for them to spend.

Kenny was caretaker manager at the time. Remember that.

I'm off to work now.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I just think FSG and in particular john henry bit off more than he could chew.

Somehow i feel at the back of his mind that he could make the same kind of success he did with the red sox..ie come in.. get moneyball system in place..1 season later.. win world series,

Unfortunately.. this whole soccernomics or whatever it is called is not getting us anywhere nearer to where we were since rafa left us in 5th.

If u ask me.. i think Liverpool football club is bleeding johns wallets dry.. and hes desperate to find everyway to cut cost while at the same time making us believe that this  FSG system is really "the liverpool way"

"Soccernomics" and "Moneyball" are two different things. Football in general actually does "Moneyball" anyway (if you truly understand what Moneyball was, and is, about - a reaction to baseball players being bought and paid on the basis of looks, height, family, school, and other transparent things). "Soccernomics", specifically the Lyon model, is what Liverpool seemed to be doing under FSG/Comolli. Two different ideas, two different outcomes

[And Could He Play]

i think the most exciting thing about it is not knowing who we are buying or meant to be buying, then waking up and seeing the headline when he signs, the internet, twitter mostly, has crushed that for me.