Topic: Lucas’ critical role for Liverpool

[Holden Caulfield]

Cause as I keep saying. Adam and Lucas are forming a good partnership.

This is just silly.

However the main reason is cause the gap between Gerrard and Lucas was greater than Adam and Lucas.

this is partly true. the problem is that Adam likes to lie deep -- he is often abreast with Lucas instead of ahead. Lucas, by his inclination, is to look for the forward pass, because it's his job to win the ball and then pass it forward to a player who he thinks is running into position to start an attack. That's his job with brazil and that's his job here. SG is often this player because that's just how he rolls. Adam, on the other hand, likes to sit back and start his own attacks.

Basically, if you like, Adam is not the first player Lucas look to start an attack with because Adam lies too deep, so he rather passes it to somebody else.

Now, having said all that, it won't change your mind, since you already decided that Adam and Lucas are "forming a partnership".

[John C]

When I see Lucas on the ball I start breathing regularly. You know he'll control it first time, you know his pass will be crisp and well chosen, and you know his movement after delivery will be intelligent.

Alternatively, when an opponent beats his marker and has a bit of a free run I won't start panicking until I can't see Lucas chasing him down or cutting off his chosen path.

You're slowly converting me yorky. I struggled because I'm very much a McMahon, Souness, Keane, SG type admirer so I'm surprised about your very early fondness. I still think there's some precious protection of him on here but that's just me being too honest probably. He's good but he needs to win something with us now mate.

[El Campeador]

Pepe Reina and Martin Kelly might have a thing or two to say about that.

Martin Kelly? You'd hand him the armband over Lucas Leiva tomorrow? Fuck off, you serious? Love the kid and all, but Lucas Leiva has something like 250 fucking appearances. Kelly's got potential, for sure, but Emiliano Insua still has like twice as many appearances as Kelly.

Looking forward to him against the Mancs again after the last couple of years.

He owns the fuckers, and this time they don't have Scholes.

[Sangria]

You're slowly converting me yorky. I struggled because I'm very much a McMahon, Souness, Keane, SG type admirer so I'm surprised about your very early fondness. I still think there's some precious protection of him on here but that's just me being too honest probably. He's good but he needs to win something with us now mate.

Maybe you should have been looking at Whelan instead, who a number of us had compared Lucas's type with.

[Sangria]

Martin Kelly? You'd hand him the armband over Lucas Leiva tomorrow? Fuck off, you serious? Love the kid and all, but Lucas Leiva has something like 250 fucking appearances. Kelly's got potential, for sure, but Emiliano Insua still has like twice as many appearances as Kelly.

He owns the fuckers, and this time they don't have Scholes.

Scholes means fuckall when Lucas is on the pitch. The 2 factors that decide the result are Fletcher and Lucas. If Fletcher plays, Man Utd win. If Fletcher doesn't play but Lucas plays, Liverpool win. It's a suicidal move for either team to drop either player.

As for Kelly being captain, might as well hand the armband to Flanagan, Robinson or Coady. They have the same relationship with Lucas that Kelly does.

[Rohit]

Scholes means fuckall when Lucas is on the pitch. The 2 factors that decide the result are Fletcher and Lucas. If Fletcher plays, Man Utd win. If Fletcher doesn't play but Lucas plays, Liverpool win. It's a suicidal move for either team to drop either player.

As for Kelly being captain, might as well hand the armband to Flanagan, Robinson or Coady. They have the same relationship with Lucas that Kelly does.

I'd have to disagree mate. Fletcher has been in poor form for a while now and that virus seems to  have really affected him. The anderson- fletecher pairing that ginsoak is likely to go with is shocking. Anderson is not a central midfielder as his defensive awareness is non existant and fletcher has to cover this but the current fletcher doesn't seem in the physical condition to do this.

United have been getting overrun in midfield because of this as the basel game showed and most games this season when teams don't sit back and invite pressure.

[Sangria]

I'd have to disagree mate. Fletcher has been in poor form for a while now and that virus seems to  have really affected him. The anderson- fletecher pairing that ginsoak is likely to go with is shocking. Anderson is not a central midfielder as his defensive awareness is non existant and fletcher has to cover this but the current fletcher doesn't seem in the physical condition to do this.

United have been getting overrun in midfield because of this as the basel game showed and most games this season when teams don't sit back and invite pressure.

I was going by past results, but if that's the case now, it's pleasant to my ears.

[Yorkykopite]

You're slowly converting me yorky. I struggled because I'm very much a McMahon, Souness, Keane, SG type admirer so I'm surprised about your very early fondness. I still think there's some precious protection of him on here but that's just me being too honest probably. He's good but he needs to win something with us now mate.

Ah but John, what about Ronnie Whelan?

It's one of the great ironies that Whelan the pundit - sorry, Whelan the stupid fucking pundit - wasted everyone's time berating young Lucas when young Lucas possessed so many of his own sterling qualities. The efficient ability to nick the ball off the toe of an opponent, the understanding of how space and time work in crowded areas of the pitch, the immaculate first touch which nearly always puts the ball in a great position for the second touch, the sheer fearlessness (ie physical courage) of the man, and the ability to support the teammate on the ball. Like Whelan, like Lucas.

He had a tough time when he first arrived because he wasn't strong enough. He was knocked off the ball too easily. But the skills were always there, as was his comprehension about how the game ought to be played. He was very young. It was madness to write him off as some people did. It was only a matter of time before he adapted to the English league, toughened up a bit, and began to express himself. He's obviously doing that now. I'd worry if he got injured for any length of time.   

[Juan Loco]

Martin Kelly? You'd hand him the armband over Lucas Leiva tomorrow?

Not at all. But we're not talking about tomorrow are we El Camp? We're probably talking a season or two down the line.

Also, I wouldn't let it be the deciding factor, but I think having a scouse (or near enough) captain would be the best case scenario, and Kelly's a beast.

The next captain thing is always massive guess work anyways. It's probably Pepe, like.

As for Kelly being captain, might as well hand the armband to Flanagan, Robinson or Coady. They have the same relationship with Lucas that Kelly does.

Nut.

[CHOPPER]

Did anyone notice if he passed to Carragher or Carragher passed to him?


I need to know big time.

[John C]

Maybe you should have been looking at Whelan instead, who a number of us had compared Lucas's type with.

If you could find a match on here with Whelan & my name you'll see that I've posted that when he came in to the side I thought he was the luckiest person to ever play for the club - frankly he started shit.
But then he won stuff mate. The team won the league with him and often because of him. That's why for me, despite the recent shite he said about Rafa, he is a legend.

[Yorkykopite]

If you could find a match on here with Whelan & my name you'll see that I've posted that when he came in to the side I thought he was the luckiest person to ever play for the club - frankly he started shit.
But then he won stuff mate. The team won the league with him and often because of him. That's why for me, despite the recent shite he said about Rafa, he is a legend.

I saw his debut. I think it was his debut. He scored a cracker v Stoke. I liked him from the off John. He and Rushie pulled our season round when they broke into the team.

[John C]

Ah but John, what about Ronnie Whelan?

haha, sangria beat you to it yorky, see below.

[John C]

I saw his debut. I think it was his debut. He scored a cracker v Stoke. I liked him from the off John. He and Rushie pulled our season round when they broke into the team.

My recollection was that he shouldn't have been wearing the red shirt amongst those greats. Fuck, did he develop.

[UNO]

Another boss game by our reliable Lucas. It's becoming a norm now, big game player.

[leivapool]

Did anyone notice if he passed to Carragher or Carragher passed to him?


I need to know big time.

Why?

I know the answer

[CorKopite]

I get the feeling he could be here for another 8/9 years. His tweets really show that he loves the club and the fans. Hes been absoloutely brilliant over the last 2 years.

[welshred1976]

What a player. Absolutely fantastic. Absolutely brilliant. He is unbelievably good at winning the ball without a hollywood tackle.

Has grown into a very accomplished central midfielder. Everything he does is done with grace and style, loved the fist pump to the "travelling reds" as he went off.

Lucas is boss.

[Phil M]

We all dream of a team of Lucas's....

[Rafas3leggedtable]

He's good but he needs to win something with us now mate.

What a strange thing to say. Top performance yesterday - he looks after the football.

[Rafas3leggedtable]

Has grown into a very accomplished central midfielder. Everything he does is done with grace and style, loved the fist pump to the "travelling reds" as he went off.

Lucas is boss.

Yeah I liked that too - he knew what it meant. I really like Lucas and always have done.

[subroc]

Martin Kelly? You'd hand him the armband over Lucas Leiva tomorrow? Fuck off, you serious? Love the kid and all, but Lucas Leiva has something like 250 fucking appearances. Kelly's got potential, for sure, but Emiliano Insua still has like twice as many appearances as Kelly.

He owns the fuckers, and this time they don't have Scholes.

Agreed that to give Kelly the armband over Lucas is absurd.

[subroc]

Has grown into a very accomplished central midfielder. Everything he does is done with grace and style, loved the fist pump to the "travelling reds" as he went off.

Lucas is boss.

Lucas is the best anchor midfielder in the Premiership and one of the best in the world in his position now.

[John C]

What a strange thing to say. Top performance yesterday - he looks after the football.

Its not, its the rudiments of top flight football. Just a cup will make a difference.

[horne]

he showed his maturity after picking up that yellow.
didnt do nothing silly and kept his composure throughout.He was immense for me yesterday.
i loved mascerano but with that pressure cooker atmosphere,and a yellow and all the abuse from the stands,i could have seen us down to ten men and under the cosh if masch was there...we have on our hands...an absolute diamond
if he got injured ,i would be worried

[subroc]

if he got injured ,i would be worried

I would be mroe than worried though - we have no player who is able to do what Lucas does to substitute for him. Certainly something that the club will have to do in the next transfer window to provide some depth there.

[Sangria]

he showed his maturity after picking up that yellow.
didnt do nothing silly and kept his composure throughout.He was immense for me yesterday.
i loved mascerano but with that pressure cooker atmosphere,and a yellow and all the abuse from the stands,i could have seen us down to ten men and under the cosh if masch was there...we have on our hands...an absolute diamond
if he got injured ,i would be worried

Mascherano would no more have cracked than Lucas. The footballing situation might have got to Mascherano, but he was better at handling off the field pressure than Lucas. It's only a question of tiny margins anyway, as both are diamonds, incredibly tough to break.

[foreverred1983]

ive been saying it for a few months now and have been laughed at but Lucas imo is better than Mascherano at winning the ball back. He is simply brilliant at intercepting, nicking the ball away and making full on tackles.

He does it without any fuss at all. He was exactly what was needed in the derby yesterday for all those reasons and also because he calms everything down with simple passing.

A fine player and one im most proud in the current squad because of the absolute atrocious criticism that he has received from some fans and ex players alike.

[stoa]

Its not, its the rudiments of top flight football. Just a cup will make a difference.

It is kind of a strange thing to say, when you're talking about a player's ability. I'd agree that to become a "legendary" player you need to win stuff. Legendary in the sense that people will be talking about and comparing other players to you once you've finished playing (like Makelele or Zidane). However, if we're talking about pure ability trophies don't matter that much. Torres has won fuck all with us, but he was still one of our most exciting strikers (if not the best) in the past decade. If Lucas keeps on going like that, sooner rather than later he'll win stuff...

[subroc]

Mascherano would no more have cracked than Lucas. The footballing situation might have got to Mascherano, but he was better at handling off the field pressure than Lucas. It's only a question of tiny margins anyway, as both are diamonds, incredibly tough to break.

I do nto doubt that mascherano is at the same level as Lucas in effectiveness  though in a differnet way - but I do not see how Mascherano would have handled the off field pressure better. Despite facing brickbats from many fans over the early years of his time in Liverpool, he sai dnothing in public and never sulked and just got his head down and fought and worked hard. I do not see how Lucas can have withdtood off the field pressure better...

[mercury]

yes, we can both love / loved Lucas and Masch.  They are great in their respective ways.

[Hazell]

yes, we can both love / loved Lucas and Masch.  They are great in their respective ways.

Yep. Was made up for him he won La Liga and the European Cup last season. Still think they would have had a good partnership given some time but Masch wanted to leave.

So happy for Lucas that he's playing the way he is for us right now. He's an excellent footballer and a wonderful professional.

[mercury]

Yep. Was made up for him he won La Liga and the European Cup last season. Still think they would have had a good partnership given some time but Masch wanted to leave.

So happy for Lucas that he's playing the way he is for us right now. He's an excellent footballer and a wonderful professional.

Those were the days, my friend.  It's really heart breaking to think of that team of ours, how strong we were in the middle of the park, that 4 or 5 years of hard work could go down the drain just so quickly.  Now we have to go in for another re-build.  Lessons there.

Being professional.  The same can be said of Masch for his time with us. That's what we can ultimate ask or expect from players.   And for this reason, we can expect Lucas to continue to improve.

[Hazell]

Those were the days, my friend.  It's really heart breaking to think of that team of ours, how strong we were in the middle of the park, that 4 or 5 years of hard work could go down the drain just so quickly.  Now we have to go in for another re-build.  Lessons there.

I think the lessons are don't have H+G in charge and Purslow within 1000 miles of the club. It's gutting to think about it too much because we had the makings of a really fantastic side and it was dismantled all to quickly for one reason or another. Only thing to do now is look forward, which is still a shock in itself, given where we were around a year ago.

Being professional.  The same can be said of Masch for his time with us. That's what we can ultimate ask or expect from players.   And for this reason, we can expect Lucas to continue to improve.

Love players like that. I mean, I've always liked Lucas as a player anyway but players with that kind of mentality and attitude, 100% commitment, team ethic, players like Lucas, Mascherano, Reina, Kuyt and now Suarez I absolutely adore.

[Sangria]

I do nto doubt that mascherano is at the same level as Lucas in effectiveness  though in a differnet way - but I do not see how Mascherano would have handled the off field pressure better. Despite facing brickbats from many fans over the early years of his time in Liverpool, he sai dnothing in public and never sulked and just got his head down and fought and worked hard. I do not see how Lucas can have withdtood off the field pressure better...

I meant Mascherano isn't affected on the field by anything that goes on off the field. He showed a ridiculous level of consistency during his time with Liverpool, virtually entering the zone every time he stepped onto the pitch. Lucas, although he's effective in his own way, doesn't look like he has the same tunnel vision. That same tunnel vision also meant Mascherano could sometimes ramp up the intensity a bit too much, whereas Lucas is always at least a little self-conscious, and can step back.

[AcesHigh]

yes, we can both love / loved Lucas and Masch.  They are great in their respective ways.

just proof that generalizations are never useful. Some south americans do not adapt, are not commited. Others are.


for european clubs, usually, a bit of homework would already be enough. As Tim Vickery said, everybody already knew about Tevez problems long before he went to England. He moaned at Boca Juniors. He moaned at Corinthians. He moaned at the Argentina Nat Team... always complaining.

[El Campeador]

I watched the match again today, and the one thing amongst many that struck me about General Leiva was that after Gerrard came on, Lucas was still dictating play.

[hesbighesred]

I watched the match again today, and the one thing amongst many that struck me about General Leiva was that after Gerrard came on, Lucas was still dictating play.

It seemed to me as well that when Lucas went off Gerrard suddenly hit a few slightly aimless driven passes towards Carroll - as if some of his discipline had left the pitch with Lucas. I'm really looking foward to seeing more of them together this season, they complemented each other very well anyway, and Lucas has grown significantly in his defending and general authority since they last played together with any kind of regularity.

[El Campeador]

It seemed to me as well that when Lucas went off Gerrard suddenly hit a few slightly aimless driven passes towards Carroll - as if some of his discipline had left the pitch with Lucas. I'm really looking foward to seeing more of them together this season, they complemented each other very well anyway, and Lucas has grown significantly in his defending and general authority since they last played together with any kind of regularity.

Authority. I like that. A general has authority.

[The Rednigerian]

The General vs. Everton - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K_7oPiym8c