Author Topic: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...  (Read 93593 times)

Offline Graham Smith

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #960 on: April 20, 2011, 05:34:10 pm »
Can't say I ever remember any myself, well not from Rafa anyway.

Ha ha. Got plenty from other sources !
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Offline SmithdownAndy

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #961 on: April 20, 2011, 05:37:30 pm »
Ha ha. Got plenty from other sources !
Tell me about it mate, good job we never listened eh!
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #962 on: April 20, 2011, 05:38:47 pm »
I don't recall any toning down requests to either us or generally.
Can you post a link from the none saying of it? :P

Seriously though, this thread is starting to teeter on the tit for tat crap we've all dabbled in for over the last 8 months. Everyone should just bask in the fiasco that we were.

Personally, I recommend listening to that chase music of Benny Hill when you read it all; it adds such an ambiance to the words. It really catches the tone of the piece.
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Offline rafa4eva

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #963 on: April 20, 2011, 05:40:33 pm »
Can you post a link from the none saying of it? :P

Seriously though, this thread is starting to teeter on the tit for tat crap we've all dabbled in for over the last 8 months. Everyone should just bask in the fiasco that we were.

Personally, I recommend listening to that chase music of Benny Hill when you read it all; it adds such an ambiance to the words. It really catches the tone of the piece.

Well if youre wearing a short dress, high heels and a rafa agenda im in !  ;D

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #964 on: April 20, 2011, 05:50:49 pm »
Shelovesyou also posts on Purslows favourite forum  ;) TLW where some so called 'ITK's', (who openly admit despising Rafa) constantly flung libelous shite at Rafa (taking backhanders, throwing games to get sacked etc). This obviously went a long way to helping colour Sheloves views, and people like him (Fwiw, I happen to think Sheloves is a decent lad who tries to debate his point in a constructive manner, both here and on the vipers nest that is TLW).
Strangely enough the chief perpertrator of this anti-Rafa shite, who claims to have the ear of our owners, asked that his account and all his posts be deleted from TLW last week. I wonder why?

Did he now Lenin that's very interesting I think I know the person you mean!
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #965 on: April 20, 2011, 06:00:01 pm »
Who was this? Cos chances are I can give you a case for said person's defence.
I'm all ears mate.
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #966 on: April 20, 2011, 06:06:13 pm »
Fucking hell lads.  :butt

Anyway, just a few little things and I don't want to wade into this shit again.

One, it is absolutely unneccessary to bring Kenny into this, and even worse if it's used as an example of how things have improved. They have not. It's a work in progress. There have  been some good signs, our form table since he took over has been good, but the overall have we recovered from the unfair sacking of Benitez question will only be answered in a time period of years.

Rafa has flaws, Kenny has flaws, Paisley I'm sure had flaws, I have flaws. When someone talks about flaws, the next question is are you actually good enough, in terms of football judgement, to spot them. There are a few good men on here I have immense respect for in matters non-football, and have proved their mettle, but I wouldn't trust their football judgement in a hurry. I'm sure some will say the same for me and on it goes.

I've been / lurked here for years, so I know the arguments well, I've been to the games, watched them on tv, and on the balance of things, I don't buy that controlling argument. It's not so much control, as the decision-making ability of who to give control to. If you note, Gerrard was given freedom to play, Torres was to, the players who talk about his 'control' are usually defending players and midfielders. Which is how it is in any decent team set-up. To me, it always seemed like a pretty basic issue that was blown up to become an elitist argument. The flip side of saying if we had more 'freedom' we would've won the league that season is, we wouldn't have even come close due to the potential to concede more. Anyway...

Edit: wrong journo...It goes without saying that reader discretion is advised on these things, I think a lot of us would have kopped on to that by the nature of the first extract itself when it highlighted both the players when in fact, I think they barely deserve a mention. But it's the nature of the media machinery I suppose, and while it is good sense to view it analytically, I think certain areas of the book will at least bring some new info into play. For example I didn't know Mourinho had been approached for his job. I would be interested in how the court scenes are depicted as well.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:14:49 pm by surfer »

Offline Prelude no.5

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #967 on: April 20, 2011, 06:08:27 pm »
So Xerxes has blatantly lied/come up with false accusations and got immediately debunked by the SOS Secretary.

Where's the fucking apology Xerxes ?

Those of you giving stick to shelovesyou (the "I didn't ever belittle the campaigns" is another matter) at least he admitted his mistake and moved on, if everybody did that here it'd be a better place, that's for sure. 

Oh.. and good posts, rafa4eva. It wasn't about Rafa not having flaws, it was about his flaws being constantly scrutinised unfairly and extrapolated to disproportionate heights.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:13:13 pm by Prelude no.5 »
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #968 on: April 20, 2011, 06:11:31 pm »
I'm all ears mate.

And me Royhendo, if it's the guy I think it is, I would be amazed that you can defend it because some of the stuff he came out with was a disgrace. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:17:41 pm by jillc »
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Offline Graham Smith

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #969 on: April 20, 2011, 06:14:29 pm »
I think go be fair my comments were limited to what Benitez said to the Union or what I recall reading as well.

I don't think he ever asked for demos to be toned down (or up for that matter!).

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #970 on: April 20, 2011, 06:15:24 pm »
An excellent post.

The demonising of Carra and Gerrard and the sanctification of Rafa got out of hand before, and it doesn't take much to reignite it. I well recall Rafa asking the protests to be toned down during our second finish prior to his accepting a new lucrative contract. Rafa has only ever asked to be judged as a football manager, and a very good one he is, Carra and Gerrard as players, both already have legendary status.

The Club always will endure, and is in better shape now in my opinion than at any time since Hillsborough. New challenges face us now. Will FSG retain Kenny, invest net in the squad sufficient to get us back in the top four, and redevelop Anfield/ relocate us to give us a stadium fit to compete financially at the top table of world football? Those are the big questions now. The rest is history.

There you go again Christian Xerveslow funny how you always bring up the lucrative contract but you never bring up the fact that Benitez point blank refused to sign the contract until the future of the Academy was sorted out, the transfer budget was sorted out and contracts for the senior players was sorted out.

You also fail to mention that when the man was pushed out lining his pockets was the last thing on his mind.
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Offline RedRush

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #971 on: April 20, 2011, 06:21:00 pm »
Interesting snippets for sure, though I've always thought that Rafa was working miracles under very difficult circumstances for any manager. I can't wait to read the book!

It was a nightmare period in the club's history, and more reds need to know the truth, to understand and to take it as a lesson learnt. Shelovesyou seems to have learnt his, and I hope more, however few, will follow. It does no good re the unfair sacking of Rafa, and the bitterness some fans still feel about it, but it is still somewhat better than those who still choose not to open their eyes.

Something happened during that period too - I felt utterly disappointed with a fair number of fellow reds for their apathy (i.e. there were millions of us, and yet it took so long to reach 8000 signatures on our online petitions, while some actually argued that the protest threads were swamping the footballing threads), a fair few for their misguided contempt of Rafa (some even accused him of losing the league in 2008/09!), a lot of the ex-players for their backstabbing in the media, and a few or couple of our current players who I idolized and believed to be our leaders. Personally I've never felt the same way again with regards to some of my fellow fans, the club's legends and players. To balance that though, I've a lot more respect for a fair number of reds who took part in the internet terrorist campaign.

PS: I do understand that, more important than me, is the fact that the club is finally going in the right direction again, with hopefully better owners (great so far but once bitten...), and a legend, who gets us, as our manager again. Thus, the many threads and reminders about unity is absolutely ace. I do hope though, when the book eventually comes out and more are revealed, that we can achieve unity not by enforcement (closing down of threads), but by enforcing balanced argument (i.e. allowing people to air their grouses re JC and SG's silence compared to Torres and Reina for a whole year or two, and gradually guiding the posters to the eventual cathartic acceptance that professional footballers, or just some, are just raised differently from the rest of us.) :)
 
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« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:26:47 pm by RedRush »

Offline sforzisi

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #972 on: April 20, 2011, 06:36:31 pm »
Re: JC and SG, folks with iTunes may want to download episode 36 of the following podcast:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/thegame-podcast/id191105605

Interesting bits about 20 minutes in...

Offline 1021

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #973 on: April 20, 2011, 06:36:50 pm »
Ordered the book. Looking forward to reading it. I hope that this thread stay open long enough for the debate to continue, because though we have moved on and it was an ugly saga, it was an important one. And some of the effects of the regime are still being felt today.

I don't think I can accurately discribe my emotions reading the three extracts. Anger, frustration, finding the whole thing laughable, disbelife, anger again, sadness, a great deal more anger, and relief.

Three things have struck me.
The general incompetence of Gillett and Hicks. I mean, I think I have given them too much credit.  For a while I thought they were evil masterminds, horrible capatilist driven, money grabbing scumbags. Then as the regime grew longer, their incompetence grew more and more apparent. I cannot remember who, but at the SOS Independence Day Rally, I remember one of the speakers referring to them as the "poorest billionaires in history". But the idea that they were running around grabbing choc ices, falling out over who had the best scarf, and offering one of Europes finest tacticians a treadmill as part of his transfer budget, they sound mentally ill.
They should never have been allowed anywhere near the football club. Incompetence extended to theose responsible for the deal. Parry and Moores should be fucking ashamed of themselves. A google search as we later found out couold have told us a hell of a lot about these cowboys, but for fucks sake when handing over the family silver as they so eloquently put it, just trusting someone on the character and credentials of a person is as inexplicable as it is unforgivable. I hate the pair of them.

Empathy, more love for Rafa, and frustration at what would, could, and should have been with him in charge.
The fact that press were being briefed about him being mentally ill? You have to take into consideration that English isn't Rafa's first language, and he is having to have conversations with men who are offering him players in the draft. He must have been as confused as hell. That people use Rafa's politiking as a stick to beat him with is a disgrace. Look at Ferguson at Man Utd, he has sat back, ensured his job security, and allowed the Glazers to rack up the debt into astronomical sums, and whilst the true supporters (much like our own) take the fight to the gobshites he has told them to pipe down and told the world how great the very people raping over their club are. You can tell why he has aged so drastically, it happened pretty much from the summer after Athens. He was forced to take sides, switch sides, trying to consolidate a transfer budget for us, and laterly trying to prevent them asset strip our squad. Without him speaking up we would have been in the dark for a hell of a lot longer.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Rafa's biggest mistake at Liverpool was falling in love with the place the way he did. How many offes did he have to go elsewhere in his time here. Juventus were after him. Real Madrid came knocing on more than one occasion (his boyhood club, his dream job) and he stuck by Liverpool FC, whilst the bellends in charge were offering him draft picks, saying he was mentally ill, chatting up Jurgen fucking Klinnsman, and laterly had an MD who decided he knew better than the European Cup winning manager of Rafa's stature and started making plans of his own. From the cold hearted, calculated Rafa Benitez standpoint he should have fucked us off before that Porto match, but no he and his family stuck with us.

I don't care if this makes me look like a tart who loves Rafa too much, and should move on. We were lucky to have him, and this only reaffirms this fact.

And finally, I don't care if this makes me the worst Liverpool fan in the world, a Rafanista (because apparently in some quarters not ebing happy with their actions equates to being a conspiritor and being a member of a cult), a knobhead. Gerrard and Carragher should have spoke up but they didn't. They are shithouses.
If they said, we just didn't understand or we didn't realise how bad it was until we were in court, then I could just about accept it. But when Reina and Torres were putting themselves out there and opposing the ownership (not just supporting the manager) it was the duty of the captain and VC, the "heart and soul" of the club, "Mr Liverpool I and II" to do the same. I share the view of Pepe on this. They didn't have to back the manager they just had to oppose the ownership. To speak out now, talk about how tough it was for them, and then lump Rafa and Hicks and Gillett in together as part of the problem, is unnacceptable. Will still support them as players but this above any rumblings about their role in Rafa's departure has IMO sullied their legacy.

Fascinating book this will prove to be.
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Offline RedRush

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #974 on: April 20, 2011, 06:43:11 pm »
I don't care if this makes me look like a tart who loves Rafa too much, and should move on. We were lucky to have him, and this only reaffirms this fact.
And finally, I don't care if this makes me the worst Liverpool fan in the world, ... has IMO sullied their legacy.

Fascinating book this will prove to be.

Amen.

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #975 on: April 20, 2011, 06:44:06 pm »
Ordered the book. Looking forward to reading it. I hope that this thread stay open long enough for the debate to continue, because though we have moved on and it was an ugly saga, it was an important one. And some of the effects of the regime are still being felt today.

I don't think I can accurately discribe my emotions reading the three extracts. Anger, frustration, finding the whole thing laughable, disbelife, anger again, sadness, a great deal more anger, and relief.

Three things have struck me.
The general incompetence of Gillett and Hicks. I mean, I think I have given them too much credit.  For a while I thought they were evil masterminds, horrible capatilist driven, money grabbing scumbags. Then as the regime grew longer, their incompetence grew more and more apparent. I cannot remember who, but at the SOS Independence Day Rally, I remember one of the speakers referring to them as the "poorest billionaires in history". But the idea that they were running around grabbing choc ices, falling out over who had the best scarf, and offering one of Europes finest tacticians a treadmill as part of his transfer budget, they sound mentally ill.
They should never have been allowed anywhere near the football club. Incompetence extended to theose responsible for the deal. Parry and Moores should be fucking ashamed of themselves. A google search as we later found out couold have told us a hell of a lot about these cowboys, but for fucks sake when handing over the family silver as they so eloquently put it, just trusting someone on the character and credentials of a person is as inexplicable as it is unforgivable. I hate the pair of them.

Empathy, more love for Rafa, and frustration at what would, could, and should have been with him in charge.
The fact that press were being briefed about him being mentally ill? You have to take into consideration that English isn't Rafa's first language, and he is having to have conversations with men who are offering him players in the draft. He must have been as confused as hell. That people use Rafa's politiking as a stick to beat him with is a disgrace. Look at Ferguson at Man Utd, he has sat back, ensured his job security, and allowed the Glazers to rack up the debt into astronomical sums, and whilst the true supporters (much like our own) take the fight to the gobshites he has told them to pipe down and told the world how great the very people raping over their club are. You can tell why he has aged so drastically, it happened pretty much from the summer after Athens. He was forced to take sides, switch sides, trying to consolidate a transfer budget for us, and laterly trying to prevent them asset strip our squad. Without him speaking up we would have been in the dark for a hell of a lot longer.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Rafa's biggest mistake at Liverpool was falling in love with the place the way he did. How many offes did he have to go elsewhere in his time here. Juventus were after him. Real Madrid came knocing on more than one occasion (his boyhood club, his dream job) and he stuck by Liverpool FC, whilst the bellends in charge were offering him draft picks, saying he was mentally ill, chatting up Jurgen fucking Klinnsman, and laterly had an MD who decided he knew better than the European Cup winning manager of Rafa's stature and started making plans of his own. From the cold hearted, calculated Rafa Benitez standpoint he should have fucked us off before that Porto match, but no he and his family stuck with us.

I don't care if this makes me look like a tart who loves Rafa too much, and should move on. We were lucky to have him, and this only reaffirms this fact.

And finally, I don't care if this makes me the worst Liverpool fan in the world, a Rafanista (because apparently in some quarters not ebing happy with their actions equates to being a conspiritor and being a member of a cult), a knobhead. Gerrard and Carragher should have spoke up but they didn't. They are shithouses.
If they said, we just didn't understand or we didn't realise how bad it was until we were in court, then I could just about accept it. But when Reina and Torres were putting themselves out there and opposing the ownership (not just supporting the manager) it was the duty of the captain and VC, the "heart and soul" of the club, "Mr Liverpool I and II" to do the same. I share the view of Pepe on this. They didn't have to back the manager they just had to oppose the ownership. To speak out now, talk about how tough it was for them, and then lump Rafa and Hicks and Gillett in together as part of the problem, is unnacceptable. Will still support them as players but this above any rumblings about their role in Rafa's departure has IMO sullied their legacy.

Fascinating book this will prove to be.

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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #976 on: April 20, 2011, 06:47:29 pm »
Fascinating book this will prove to be.

Completely agree with everything you've said. Really looking forward to this book.

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #977 on: April 20, 2011, 06:48:31 pm »
Gerrard and Carragher should have spoke up but they didn't. They are shithouses.

You mean Gerrard speaking up like this?

Quote
Steven Gerrard pledges his allegiance

"All the players believe in this manager and are right behind him," Gerrard said. "Everyone's desperate to put things right together."

"I don't know if everyone is totally 100 per cent behind him, of course, because I can't control what's going through every player's mind," the midfielder added. "But I've not seen anything that makes me think they're not.

"It seems as if there's a lot of blame going towards the manager. But it was the players who under-performed out there."

"People talk about tactics and stuff, but there's only so much that a manager can do. The players have to deliver, and the players never delivered."

"Of course, everyone knows in football that the manager eventually gets the blame if things don't go well, but for me, we should get behind him now."

There is an appetite in some quarters for blood. Does it feel to the players that the manager's future may be decided by the next two games?

"I hope not," Gerrard said emphatically. "It has happened before but, hopefully, that won't be the case again. Hopefully we can get two good results and start slowly building.

"It'd be a knee-jerk reaction to sack a manager after one bad tournament, then think everything will be rosy when you start with a new guy and we'll go on and win."

"It's crazy to think it's as easy as that. I want him to stay. I have a lot of belief in him."

"It's important that he is still given a chance. For me, he's a fantastic manager. Who out there that's an English manager has the CV that he has got?

Source


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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #978 on: April 20, 2011, 06:52:14 pm »
You silly silly boys, this'll end up getting locked.
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Offline RedRush

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #979 on: April 20, 2011, 06:59:17 pm »
You silly silly boys, this'll end up getting locked.

Hope not. Shudders to think that its only snippets. Wait till the book comes out and there will either be more threads being locked or more posters being banned!

Offline 1021

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #980 on: April 20, 2011, 07:01:22 pm »
You mean Gerrard speaking up like this?


Haha. Pretty unequivocal in his support there.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline Lubeh

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #981 on: April 20, 2011, 07:01:37 pm »
Without ruffling (sp) any feathers that Steven Gerrard pledges his allegiance is about his support of Fabio Cappello and not Rafa, had it been about Rafa then fair play, but he said it about Cappello his international manager and not his club manager. (though I realise this is possibly the point you are trying to get across, some may read it in the wrong context).
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 07:04:09 pm by Lubeh »

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #982 on: April 20, 2011, 07:03:12 pm »
Ordered the book. Looking forward to reading it. I hope that this thread stay open long enough for the debate to continue, because though we have moved on and it was an ugly saga, it was an important one. And some of the effects of the regime are still being felt today.

I don't think I can accurately discribe my emotions reading the three extracts. Anger, frustration, finding the whole thing laughable, disbelife, anger again, sadness, a great deal more anger, and relief.

Three things have struck me.
The general incompetence of Gillett and Hicks. I mean, I think I have given them too much credit.  For a while I thought they were evil masterminds, horrible capatilist driven, money grabbing scumbags. Then as the regime grew longer, their incompetence grew more and more apparent. I cannot remember who, but at the SOS Independence Day Rally, I remember one of the speakers referring to them as the "poorest billionaires in history". But the idea that they were running around grabbing choc ices, falling out over who had the best scarf, and offering one of Europes finest tacticians a treadmill as part of his transfer budget, they sound mentally ill.
They should never have been allowed anywhere near the football club. Incompetence extended to theose responsible for the deal. Parry and Moores should be fucking ashamed of themselves. A google search as we later found out couold have told us a hell of a lot about these cowboys, but for fucks sake when handing over the family silver as they so eloquently put it, just trusting someone on the character and credentials of a person is as inexplicable as it is unforgivable. I hate the pair of them.

Empathy, more love for Rafa, and frustration at what would, could, and should have been with him in charge.
The fact that press were being briefed about him being mentally ill? You have to take into consideration that English isn't Rafa's first language, and he is having to have conversations with men who are offering him players in the draft. He must have been as confused as hell. That people use Rafa's politiking as a stick to beat him with is a disgrace. Look at Ferguson at Man Utd, he has sat back, ensured his job security, and allowed the Glazers to rack up the debt into astronomical sums, and whilst the true supporters (much like our own) take the fight to the gobshites he has told them to pipe down and told the world how great the very people raping over their club are. You can tell why he has aged so drastically, it happened pretty much from the summer after Athens. He was forced to take sides, switch sides, trying to consolidate a transfer budget for us, and laterly trying to prevent them asset strip our squad. Without him speaking up we would have been in the dark for a hell of a lot longer.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Rafa's biggest mistake at Liverpool was falling in love with the place the way he did. How many offes did he have to go elsewhere in his time here. Juventus were after him. Real Madrid came knocing on more than one occasion (his boyhood club, his dream job) and he stuck by Liverpool FC, whilst the bellends in charge were offering him draft picks, saying he was mentally ill, chatting up Jurgen fucking Klinnsman, and laterly had an MD who decided he knew better than the European Cup winning manager of Rafa's stature and started making plans of his own. From the cold hearted, calculated Rafa Benitez standpoint he should have fucked us off before that Porto match, but no he and his family stuck with us.

I don't care if this makes me look like a tart who loves Rafa too much, and should move on. We were lucky to have him, and this only reaffirms this fact.

And finally, I don't care if this makes me the worst Liverpool fan in the world, a Rafanista (because apparently in some quarters not ebing happy with their actions equates to being a conspiritor and being a member of a cult), a knobhead. Gerrard and Carragher should have spoke up but they didn't. They are shithouses.
If they said, we just didn't understand or we didn't realise how bad it was until we were in court, then I could just about accept it. But when Reina and Torres were putting themselves out there and opposing the ownership (not just supporting the manager) it was the duty of the captain and VC, the "heart and soul" of the club, "Mr Liverpool I and II" to do the same. I share the view of Pepe on this. They didn't have to back the manager they just had to oppose the ownership. To speak out now, talk about how tough it was for them, and then lump Rafa and Hicks and Gillett in together as part of the problem, is unnacceptable. Will still support them as players but this above any rumblings about their role in Rafa's departure has IMO sullied their legacy.

Fascinating book this will prove to be.

Couldn't put it better myself.
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Offline WTF?

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #983 on: April 20, 2011, 07:04:13 pm »
Just ordered the book. Was interested in it anyway, but just reading the tasters has convinced me this is a must have. Can't wait. 

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #984 on: April 20, 2011, 07:15:35 pm »
Ordered the book. Looking forward to reading it. I hope that this thread stay open long enough for the debate to continue, because though we have moved on and it was an ugly saga, it was an important one. And some of the effects of the regime are still being felt today.

I don't think I can accurately discribe my emotions reading the three extracts. Anger, frustration, finding the whole thing laughable, disbelife, anger again, sadness, a great deal more anger, and relief.

Three things have struck me.
The general incompetence of Gillett and Hicks. I mean, I think I have given them too much credit.  For a while I thought they were evil masterminds, horrible capatilist driven, money grabbing scumbags. Then as the regime grew longer, their incompetence grew more and more apparent. I cannot remember who, but at the SOS Independence Day Rally, I remember one of the speakers referring to them as the "poorest billionaires in history". But the idea that they were running around grabbing choc ices, falling out over who had the best scarf, and offering one of Europes finest tacticians a treadmill as part of his transfer budget, they sound mentally ill.
They should never have been allowed anywhere near the football club. Incompetence extended to theose responsible for the deal. Parry and Moores should be fucking ashamed of themselves. A google search as we later found out couold have told us a hell of a lot about these cowboys, but for fucks sake when handing over the family silver as they so eloquently put it, just trusting someone on the character and credentials of a person is as inexplicable as it is unforgivable. I hate the pair of them.

Empathy, more love for Rafa, and frustration at what would, could, and should have been with him in charge.
The fact that press were being briefed about him being mentally ill? You have to take into consideration that English isn't Rafa's first language, and he is having to have conversations with men who are offering him players in the draft. He must have been as confused as hell. That people use Rafa's politiking as a stick to beat him with is a disgrace. Look at Ferguson at Man Utd, he has sat back, ensured his job security, and allowed the Glazers to rack up the debt into astronomical sums, and whilst the true supporters (much like our own) take the fight to the gobshites he has told them to pipe down and told the world how great the very people raping over their club are. You can tell why he has aged so drastically, it happened pretty much from the summer after Athens. He was forced to take sides, switch sides, trying to consolidate a transfer budget for us, and laterly trying to prevent them asset strip our squad. Without him speaking up we would have been in the dark for a hell of a lot longer.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Rafa's biggest mistake at Liverpool was falling in love with the place the way he did. How many offes did he have to go elsewhere in his time here. Juventus were after him. Real Madrid came knocing on more than one occasion (his boyhood club, his dream job) and he stuck by Liverpool FC, whilst the bellends in charge were offering him draft picks, saying he was mentally ill, chatting up Jurgen fucking Klinnsman, and laterly had an MD who decided he knew better than the European Cup winning manager of Rafa's stature and started making plans of his own. From the cold hearted, calculated Rafa Benitez standpoint he should have fucked us off before that Porto match, but no he and his family stuck with us.

I don't care if this makes me look like a tart who loves Rafa too much, and should move on. We were lucky to have him, and this only reaffirms this fact.

And finally, I don't care if this makes me the worst Liverpool fan in the world, a Rafanista (because apparently in some quarters not ebing happy with their actions equates to being a conspiritor and being a member of a cult), a knobhead. Gerrard and Carragher should have spoke up but they didn't. They are shithouses.
If they said, we just didn't understand or we didn't realise how bad it was until we were in court, then I could just about accept it. But when Reina and Torres were putting themselves out there and opposing the ownership (not just supporting the manager) it was the duty of the captain and VC, the "heart and soul" of the club, "Mr Liverpool I and II" to do the same. I share the view of Pepe on this. They didn't have to back the manager they just had to oppose the ownership. To speak out now, talk about how tough it was for them, and then lump Rafa and Hicks and Gillett in together as part of the problem, is unnacceptable. Will still support them as players but this above any rumblings about their role in Rafa's departure has IMO sullied their legacy.

Fascinating book this will prove to be.

Excellent post mate.
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #985 on: April 20, 2011, 07:15:41 pm »
Ordered the book. Looking forward to reading it. I hope that this thread stay open long enough for the debate to continue, because though we have moved on and it was an ugly saga, it was an important one. And some of the effects of the regime are still being felt today.

I don't think I can accurately discribe my emotions reading the three extracts. Anger, frustration, finding the whole thing laughable, disbelife, anger again, sadness, a great deal more anger, and relief.

Three things have struck me.
The general incompetence of Gillett and Hicks. I mean, I think I have given them too much credit.  For a while I thought they were evil masterminds, horrible capatilist driven, money grabbing scumbags. Then as the regime grew longer, their incompetence grew more and more apparent. I cannot remember who, but at the SOS Independence Day Rally, I remember one of the speakers referring to them as the "poorest billionaires in history". But the idea that they were running around grabbing choc ices, falling out over who had the best scarf, and offering one of Europes finest tacticians a treadmill as part of his transfer budget, they sound mentally ill.
They should never have been allowed anywhere near the football club. Incompetence extended to theose responsible for the deal. Parry and Moores should be fucking ashamed of themselves. A google search as we later found out couold have told us a hell of a lot about these cowboys, but for fucks sake when handing over the family silver as they so eloquently put it, just trusting someone on the character and credentials of a person is as inexplicable as it is unforgivable. I hate the pair of them.

Empathy, more love for Rafa, and frustration at what would, could, and should have been with him in charge.
The fact that press were being briefed about him being mentally ill? You have to take into consideration that English isn't Rafa's first language, and he is having to have conversations with men who are offering him players in the draft. He must have been as confused as hell. That people use Rafa's politiking as a stick to beat him with is a disgrace. Look at Ferguson at Man Utd, he has sat back, ensured his job security, and allowed the Glazers to rack up the debt into astronomical sums, and whilst the true supporters (much like our own) take the fight to the gobshites he has told them to pipe down and told the world how great the very people raping over their club are. You can tell why he has aged so drastically, it happened pretty much from the summer after Athens. He was forced to take sides, switch sides, trying to consolidate a transfer budget for us, and laterly trying to prevent them asset strip our squad. Without him speaking up we would have been in the dark for a hell of a lot longer.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Rafa's biggest mistake at Liverpool was falling in love with the place the way he did. How many offes did he have to go elsewhere in his time here. Juventus were after him. Real Madrid came knocing on more than one occasion (his boyhood club, his dream job) and he stuck by Liverpool FC, whilst the bellends in charge were offering him draft picks, saying he was mentally ill, chatting up Jurgen fucking Klinnsman, and laterly had an MD who decided he knew better than the European Cup winning manager of Rafa's stature and started making plans of his own. From the cold hearted, calculated Rafa Benitez standpoint he should have fucked us off before that Porto match, but no he and his family stuck with us.

I don't care if this makes me look like a tart who loves Rafa too much, and should move on. We were lucky to have him, and this only reaffirms this fact.

And finally, I don't care if this makes me the worst Liverpool fan in the world, a Rafanista (because apparently in some quarters not ebing happy with their actions equates to being a conspiritor and being a member of a cult), a knobhead. Gerrard and Carragher should have spoke up but they didn't. They are shithouses.
If they said, we just didn't understand or we didn't realise how bad it was until we were in court, then I could just about accept it. But when Reina and Torres were putting themselves out there and opposing the ownership (not just supporting the manager) it was the duty of the captain and VC, the "heart and soul" of the club, "Mr Liverpool I and II" to do the same. I share the view of Pepe on this. They didn't have to back the manager they just had to oppose the ownership. To speak out now, talk about how tough it was for them, and then lump Rafa and Hicks and Gillett in together as part of the problem, is unnacceptable. Will still support them as players but this above any rumblings about their role in Rafa's departure has IMO sullied their legacy.

Fascinating book this will prove to be.

Excellent post that mate
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #986 on: April 20, 2011, 07:17:49 pm »
You mean Gerrard speaking up like this?


If only he´d done that for Rafa. and spoken out against the cancers.

If only.
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #987 on: April 20, 2011, 07:18:23 pm »
Thanks Graham.Another lie of xerxes Debunked.Although I am sure in about 4-5 months he will bring it up as fact again.
My only agenda is the truth. That you don't like it does not make it a lie. And of course Gerrard in his Sunday Times article went to some lengths to confirm the impact our protests did have.
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #988 on: April 20, 2011, 07:19:18 pm »
Re: JC and SG, folks with iTunes may want to download episode 36 of the following podcast:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/thegame-podcast/id191105605

Interesting bits about 20 minutes in...

What's the name of the episode?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrryWFt7SII

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"With one swing of his gifted right boot Steven Gerrard says, Champions League, Knockout Stage, Here we come!!"

Just can't get enough...........

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #989 on: April 20, 2011, 07:19:54 pm »
No, it really hasn't. We can't talk about it on here for a start, cos people are chums with JC. The mods sweep it under the carpet, those players looked after themselves and shat on the club (imo), and the best manager in 20 years got fucked off. Then they brought in Hodgson. C***s. If you, or any other liverpool fan thinks we should forget that - your fuckin wrong.

Conspiracy theories aside, what evidence do you have to make this sort of accusations? Gerrard could have walked into any team and play with better players, make more money, be more famous, win titles but he instead decided to carry Liverpool almost on his own and caused damage to his body that may cost him several years as a top player. He was placed so many times in a very difficult situation because all the eyes were pointed at him and perhaps at times he made a wrong decision- just like any other human being; however I believe based on what he has done for the club, that he has always believed to do the best for the club rather than himself. Just think in your work and career- would you be able to make similar decisions and sacrifice health, money, success for loyalty to the company you worked in? Not many people would.

Rafe seems a great guy who loves the club and it is true that he had loads of problems because of the owners but that is a past and we need to look ahead; we have a manager now who is uniting the club, bringing great tradition back and that is where my focus is now at. This is KK second coming and I hope Rafa will also get his one day - but now is not a good time. Rafa still has to learn and grow, deal with the past and move on - I hope his next job will allow him to do so.
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #990 on: April 20, 2011, 07:22:29 pm »
You mean Gerrard speaking up like this?


What's that got to do with the owners or Rafa?

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #991 on: April 20, 2011, 07:23:56 pm »
The thing which I don't understand about this "look ahead and forget the past" argument is how counterproductive it is in reality. Those who forget the past are bound to repeat its mistakes and it would be a shame if instead of us as a fanbase and as a club chose to just forget about all this instead of analysing and learning from the mistakes that were made on all sides. This no doubt applies to the players like Mr Liverpool mk1 & mk2 who I would hope have learnt from this and moreso to Rafa who I am sure would have learnt a lot from this experience too.
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #992 on: April 20, 2011, 07:24:11 pm »
My only agenda is the truth. That you don't like it does not make it a lie. And of course Gerrard in his Sunday Times article went to some lengths to confirm the impact our protests did have.

There's only one person who believes that X1, and that's you (the first sentence that is).

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #993 on: April 20, 2011, 07:24:14 pm »
What's that got to do with the owners or Rafa?

Err, recalibrate Chakan recalibrate.

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #994 on: April 20, 2011, 07:25:21 pm »
My only agenda is the truth. That you don't like it does not make it a lie. And of course Gerrard in his Sunday Times article went to some lengths to confirm the impact our protests did have.

More bluster. You claimed something to be a fact that's blatantly not true. Don't try to squrim your way put of this one.
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #995 on: April 20, 2011, 07:26:17 pm »
There's only one person who believes that X1, and that's you (the first sentence that is).
I disagree, xerxes just views the truth in a different way to most of us
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #996 on: April 20, 2011, 07:27:10 pm »
I disagree, xerxes just views the truth in a different way to most of us

In a David Koresh kind of way.  :P
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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #997 on: April 20, 2011, 07:27:56 pm »
I disagree, xerxes just views the truth in a different way to most of us

If you mean by telling lies then yes ...

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #998 on: April 20, 2011, 07:28:14 pm »
I disagree, xerxes just views the truth in a different way to most of us

And that's why it's a group of 1, he has amazing shades though ;D

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Re: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...
« Reply #999 on: April 20, 2011, 07:28:44 pm »
Err, recalibrate Chakan recalibrate.

??