Topic: Epic Swindle - the Judgement...

[snowlion]

I supported Rafa and didn't want him to leave.  While we have to move on, I believe the importance of this book will be an example of how not to run a club.  I do not wish anyone to have owners that meddle in football affairs without any knowledge or reasoning.

[fuzzball]

pre ordered the book ...hopefully it will be good.
I think  gerrard and carra have plenty to answer for in their failing to speak out. I am sure benitez will come out of it well if he has contributed.

having spent a lot of time getting the bastards out it could be theraputic to look back on how bad things were.

[trequartista]

Jeez some of the shit rafa had to deal with!

[Lenin.]

Shelovesyou fair dues mate, good on you. What puzzles me though is this, why does this new book convince you when hundreds of fellow fans couldn't at the time? Not getting on your back mate, what's happened happened, and you've apologised, so it's done. It just interests me, that's all.

Shelovesyou also posts on Purslows favourite forum  TLW where some so called 'ITK's', (who openly admit despising Rafa) constantly flung libelous shite at Rafa (taking backhanders, throwing games to get sacked etc). This obviously went a long way to helping colour Sheloves views, and people like him (Fwiw, I happen to think Sheloves is a decent lad who tries to debate his point in a constructive manner, both here and on the vipers nest that is TLW).
Strangely enough the chief perpertrator of this anti-Rafa shite, who claims to have the ear of our owners, asked that his account and all his posts be deleted from TLW last week. I wonder why?

[Kahuna{=}Berger]

Strangely enough the chief perpertrator of this anti-Rafa shite, who claims to have the ear of our owners, asked that his account and all his posts be deleted from TLW last week. I wonder why?

And were they mate?

[red_til_i_die]

Obviously we'll always keep a vigilant eye on what's happening to the club. But the man was honest and forthright with us from the moment we met him, well come to think of it even before that. He did tell us the club was in a mess and would take months to sort out, quietly I believe they've been going about repairing the damage that was done to the club over the last 4 years.

I've still not seen anything that has changed my opinion of him or FSG, in fact I've seen plenty that's strengthened the belief they will do what's right for the club.

How does this LeBron James thing sit with you? It's the only thing that they've done that has made me abit uncomfortable

[Lenin.]

And were they mate?

Yes.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I've enjoyed the extracts, Ive always enjoyed Reade's column in the Mirror. Whilst it goes into details I wasnt aware of, it doesn't reveal anythng we didn't know.
Rafa loved and fought for the club in very bad circumstance's created by the yank c*nts and then by cecil.

However Rafa did make mistake's lets not start thinking he's the Spanish Sir Bob Paisley.
Overall his transfer were good, for every Pennant a Reina, for every Keane a Torres. However he made mistakes and his controlling nature was not particularly suited to winning the Title. Ive never done the Maths, but Im pretty sure if we had 2 points for a win the season we finished 2nd we woudl have won the league easy.
How many times were we drawing at home and he brings on a centre mid, or worse fucking Nabil El Zar.
There have also been hints/suggestions fro players that his management wasn't great. So his stubborn, controling nature also had a downside.

In response to the criticism of SG & JC not speaking out. Both guys love this club and did what they thought was best. You cant condem themn for that. united are in a similar situation to us with large repayment to be met every year, however that red faced jock c*nt has deceided to keep stability and say good things about them, despite not being able to use the Rolando money after he left. This means the players are in a happier, more stable environment.

But ending on a positive. Rafa, thanks for you help in fighting to keep the club alive, and for lovig the club as much as you do, for understanding the fans, the club and the city. YNWA

[Libertine]

Enjoyed (if that's the right word) reading the extracts so far and i'm looking forward to the book. it may not be the definitive word on the matter but it will certainly add to what we know and might educate some people who have ignored most of this up to now.

Whilst of course we need to look to the future (and can do now with optimism) there's no contradiction in learning from what went wrong and discussing these issues. Surely it's possible to be able to do both simultaneously and hopefully such debate will be tolerated here.

[Bangin Them In]

Those witch hunting JC and SG, they are football players !!

They live in a cocoon ground to house to ground, will not have either the capacity nor the forethought to challenge any of it. Their jobs are to fight on the pitch for the club whatever the ownership issues or management ones.

These matters are dealt with at board/management level, and for that Coco and Moores are damned.

Look to those that took the cash and run.

[SmithdownAndy]

How does this LeBron James thing sit with you? It's the only thing that they've done that has made me abit uncomfortable

Without knowing the full details of te deal I wouldn't really like to say too much, maybe it's just a case of getting another investor in to replace DiBennetto and make the numbers up, who knows. They also did say they would have to think outside the box on ways of creating new revenue, maybe this is just an example of that. Time will tell whether it's good for us or not, but I'm willing to give FSG leeway on this for now, I still trust them enough to believe that anything they do is for the benefit of the club, and therefore us the fans.

[GinuWhine]

The best part for me is Hicks emailing Klinsmann to ask if we're paying too much for Skrtel. 

[babraham]

I love Rafa. It properly hurts me what he went through for this club and what happened to him in the end. I would love the timing to work out someday and for him to return!

One of the major reasons I left the .tv forums was that I couldn't handle the anti-Rafa shit anymore.

Hopefully this book can help change public perception (LFC and other fans). I constantly have to put up with this bullshit public opinion that Rafa was the demise of Liverpool. Being a foreigner, 99% of people's opinions here are what Sky Sports tells them is true. Drives me nuts!

[babraham]

Who would the club have been sold to 18 months earlier? You seem to suggest there was a buyer in the wings waiting with cash in hand, but the feedback we had from Broughton and co said there were no viable investors until Fenway came in, quite late from what I remember along with others who were shown the door before it all went public .... not sure what you know, or are you just playing devils advocate?

As for he simply liked it here? He loved the place, same as we all do, doesnt take away from the fact he was prepared to put up with the s**t as well, because of that love....to suggest he stayed for a lovely contract, well I utterly disagree with you on that point.

Wasn't it DIC?

[red_til_i_die]

Without knowing the full details of te deal I wouldn't really like to say too much, maybe it's just a case of getting another investor in to replace DiBennetto and make the numbers up, who knows. They also did say they would have to think outside the box on ways of creating new revenue, maybe this is just an example of that. Time will tell whether it's good for us or not, but I'm willing to give FSG leeway on this for now, I still trust them enough to believe that anything they do is for the benefit of the club, and therefore us the fans.

I'm of the same sort of feeling at the moment. I'm not dusting off the Standards Corrupted Shirt just yet

I suppose that's why it made me feel abit uncomfortable because it's the only thing they've done so far that's happened and which they haven't told the fans abit more detail about it.
I'm assuming when Mr Henry does his quarterly update on LFCTV that someone will ask him about it.

[SMD]

I've enjoyed the extracts, Ive always enjoyed Reade's column in the Mirror. Whilst it goes into details I wasnt aware of, it doesn't reveal anythng we didn't know.
Rafa loved and fought for the club in very bad circumstance's created by the yank c*nts and then by cecil.

However Rafa did make mistake's lets not start thinking he's the Spanish Sir Bob Paisley.
Overall his transfer were good, for every Pennant a Reina, for every Keane a Torres. However he made mistakes and his controlling nature was not particularly suited to winning the Title. Ive never done the Maths, but Im pretty sure if we had 2 points for a win the season we finished 2nd we woudl have won the league easy.
How many times were we drawing at home and he brings on a centre mid, or worse fucking Nabil El Zar.
There have also been hints/suggestions fro players that his management wasn't great. So his stubborn, controling nature also had a downside.

In response to the criticism of SG & JC not speaking out. Both guys love this club and did what they thought was best. You cant condem themn for that. united are in a similar situation to us with large repayment to be met every year, however that red faced jock c*nt has deceided to keep stability and say good things about them, despite not being able to use the Rolando money after he left. This means the players are in a happier, more stable environment.

But ending on a positive. Rafa, thanks for you help in fighting to keep the club alive, and for lovig the club as much as you do, for understanding the fans, the club and the city. YNWA

Laughable.

[Chakan]

I've enjoyed the extracts, Ive always enjoyed Reade's column in the Mirror. Whilst it goes into details I wasnt aware of, it doesn't reveal anythng we didn't know.
Rafa loved and fought for the club in very bad circumstance's created by the yank c*nts and then by cecil.

However Rafa did make mistake's lets not start thinking he's the Spanish Sir Bob Paisley.
Overall his transfer were good, for every Pennant a Reina, for every Keane a Torres. However he made mistakes and his controlling nature was not particularly suited to winning the Title. Ive never done the Maths, but Im pretty sure if we had 2 points for a win the season we finished 2nd we woudl have won the league easy.
How many times were we drawing at home and he brings on a centre mid, or worse fucking Nabil El Zar.
There have also been hints/suggestions fro players that his management wasn't great. So his stubborn, controling nature also had a downside.

In response to the criticism of SG & JC not speaking out. Both guys love this club and did what they thought was best. You cant condem themn for that. united are in a similar situation to us with large repayment to be met every year, however that red faced jock c*nt has deceided to keep stability and say good things about them, despite not being able to use the Rolando money after he left. This means the players are in a happier, more stable environment.

But ending on a positive. Rafa, thanks for you help in fighting to keep the club alive, and for lovig the club as much as you do, for understanding the fans, the club and the city. YNWA

So you can condemn Rafa for doing what he thought was best for the club , but not SG and JC. Interesting.

[Walk on, walk on]

united are in a similar situation to us with large repayment to be met every year, however that red faced jock c*nt has deceided to keep stability and say good things about them, despite not being able to use the Rolando money after he left. This means the players are in a happier, more stable environment.

So, you're saying that if you are JC / SG, you'd rather your manager be sycophantic and pander to the cancers so that you'd be "in a happier, more stable environment", and that we can't put any blame on you?

[AlphaDelta]

Have been reading the paper this week and aside from hating the pair of bastards even more (if possible) I have realised even further what a tit Rick Parry really is. Yes he's supposed to be a fan and loves the club but he was so slow to react during transfers it makes me cringe when I hear who we missed out.

Florent Malouda was wanted by Rafa and surprise surprise Rick hummed and harred. The man should stick to wearing jaunty ties!

[Graham Smith]

Have been reading the paper this week and aside from hating the pair of bastards even more (if possible) I have realised even further what a tit Rick Parry really is. Yes he's supposed to be a fan and loves the club but he was so slow to react during transfers it makes me cringe when I hear who we missed out.

Florent Malouda was wanted by Rafa and surprise surprise Rick hummed and harred. The man should stick to wearing jaunty ties!

Benitez had done the deal and the fee had been agreed but we were slow to complete and Chelsea jumped in.

Not only that but Pennant was the back up and because by the time we went back to Brum they had sold someone who's name escapes me for the minute Birmingham said they didn't need to sell so the price went up by a couple of million.

All those that have a go at Benitez need to remember that many of his "buys" were in fact his third or fourth choices (so impacting upon quality) because we either couldn't afford the first choice or we lost out on them.

Joevtic on a free being the last in a long line.

[Chakan]

Benitez had done the deal and the fee had been agreed but we were slow to complete and Chelsea jumped in.

Not only that but Pennant was the back up and because by the time we went back to Brum they had sold someone who's name escapes me for the minute Birmingham said they didn't need to sell so the price went up by a couple of million.

All those that have a go at Benitez need to remember that many of his "buys" were in fact his third or fourth choices (so impacting upon quality) because we either couldn't afford the first choice or we lost out on them.

Joevtic on a free being the last in a long line.

According to extracts from the new book, Parry refused to pay the signing on fee and then overspent by 2m for Ryan Babel and then overpaid for Pennant and Yossi.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Laughable.

If you're going to criticise my posts at least do so with an explanation.

[SMD]

If you're going to criticise my posts at least do so with an explanation.

Yeah, someone said that to me the other day so I obliged them. However you're talking about two years worth of debate, countless threads and quite frankly a bollocks place to bring it up.

Just go through my post history in the LFC forum.

[royhendo]

Shelovesyou also posts on Purslows favourite forum  TLW where some so called 'ITK's', (who openly admit despising Rafa) constantly flung libelous shite at Rafa (taking backhanders, throwing games to get sacked etc). This obviously went a long way to helping colour Sheloves views, and people like him (Fwiw, I happen to think Sheloves is a decent lad who tries to debate his point in a constructive manner, both here and on the vipers nest that is TLW).
Strangely enough the chief perpertrator of this anti-Rafa shite, who claims to have the ear of our owners, asked that his account and all his posts be deleted from TLW last week. I wonder why?

Who was this? Cos chances are I can give you a case for said person's defence.

[shelovesyou]

Fuck that. I can handle moving on as one from everything that happened but an apology from those who contributed to a man like Rafa's demise does not just make everything okay. They're not getting any 'fair play mate' comments from me and 'big respect'.

I respect your views mate but lets be honest hear, My personal opinions had no bearing on Rafa's demise as you put it. None at all.
I was wrong but to say it helped him out the door is a tad OTT.

[Juan Loco]

Wow, wow... Pennant was the back up to Malouda now?

Malouda, unless I'm mistaken, moved the season after we signed Pennant.

[shelovesyou]

Shelovesyou also posts on Purslows favourite forum  TLW where some so called 'ITK's', (who openly admit despising Rafa) constantly flung libelous shite at Rafa (taking backhanders, throwing games to get sacked etc). This obviously went a long way to helping colour Sheloves views, and people like him (Fwiw, I happen to think Sheloves is a decent lad who tries to debate his point in a constructive manner, both here and on the vipers nest that is TLW).
Strangely enough the chief perpertrator of this anti-Rafa shite, who claims to have the ear of our owners, asked that his account and all his posts be deleted from TLW last week. I wonder why?

I post on TIA and YNWA.TV as well mate. So to suggest I have an unbalanced view is nonsense Im afraid.

[royhendo]

Laughable.

I wouldn't say it's laughable at all - just an opinion. We do too much of this in relation to Rafa on RAWK, to the extent that debate loses all semblance of balance. I always felt we should embrace those we admire for their strengths as well as their flaws, and there's very little doubt Rafa had, and continues to have, his flaws.

[royhendo]

Wow, wow... Pennant was the back up to Malouda now?

Malouda, unless I'm mistaken, moved the season after we signed Pennant.

Yup - this seems to say we moved for Malouda the season before the yanks arrived, which is somewhat out of scope for the article, and... oh whatever.

[007.lankyguy]

Wow, wow... Pennant was the back up to Malouda now?

Malouda, unless I'm mistaken, moved the season after we signed Pennant.

As far as I'm aware, Pennant was back up to getting Danny Alves.

[Samee]

I respect your views mate but lets be honest hear, My personal opinions had no bearing on Rafa's demise as you put it. None at all.
I was wrong but to say it helped him out the door is a tad OTT.

Yours alone didn't but it helped keep the Anti-Rafa train chugging along. You played your part, however small.

[royhendo]

So you can condemn Rafa for doing what he thought was best for the club , but not SG and JC. Interesting.

Where's the condemnation in the guy's post? If anything it's praise, albeit qualified by saying 'he's not Paisley', which he wasn't. Nowt wrong with it at all. Even the best part of a year after the fact, sensible people are getting all bent out of shape over not much at all.

[Walk on, walk on]

I post on TIA and YNWA.TV as well mate. So to suggest I have an unbalanced view is nonsense Im afraid.

You're seriously trying to undermine and contradict yourself. You apologize for basing your opinion while uninformed of the facts, then you say now you do not have an unbalanced view.

Unbalanced or not, you were at the least consistent for your attack on the man across the forums. Now thats no saving grace for you isn't it.

[shelovesyou]

Yours alone didn't but it helped keep the Anti-Rafa train chugging along. You played your part, however small.

Well if it helps I played my part in getting rid of the Yanks as well. Small yes but played my part. So not all bad mate

[Juan Loco]

Yours alone didn't but it helped keep the Anti-Rafa train chugging along. You played your part, however small.

Seen as people are allowed to throw this stuff around, can the rest of us say you guys who think Rafa was flawless are shitting on his legacy? By making him seem perfect you're turning him in to a caricature and destroying all sort of context to the genuine brilliant things that he did for the club.

The beauty of this is that if you believe those extracts, Rafa hated the kind of platitudes and sweet talking that he's constantly given on here.

As far as I'm aware, Pennant was back up to getting Danny Alves.

That's what I thought as well.

Has Rafa ever mentioned Dani Alves by name? He's brought up Malouda a fair bit (and Jovetic I think) but I don't remember hearing him mentioning Dani Alves by name.

[SmithdownAndy]

As far as I'm aware, Pennant was back up to getting Danny Alves.

That's what I thought as well. Wasn't we supposed to be just 2m short on the price for Alves so that fell through and then we went for Pennant. You then have to wonder how come we overpaid by 2m for Babel, don't make sense, mind you in them 4 years not much did make sense.

[Samee]

Well if it helps I played my part in getting rid of the Yanks as well. Small yes but played my part. So not all bad mate

Now that I can respect.

[Chakan]

Where's the condemnation in the guy's post? If anything it's praise, albeit qualified by saying 'he's not Paisley', which he wasn't. Nowt wrong with it at all. Even the best part of a year after the fact, sensible people are getting all bent out of shape over not much at all.

So his controlling nature wasn't conducive to winning a title? Tell that to Ferguson.

How many times were we drawing at home and he brings on a centre mid, or worse fucking Nabil El Zar.

Maybe he thought that was best for the team at the time.  Also maybe since he had been fucked over by Parry and H&G he didn't have many options.

Anyway this just going in a loop again, and quite frankly I can't be bothered to go through it all again.

Also I have never stated Rafa was flawless, or perfect for the record, he made many mistakes.

[mavuto]

According to extracts from the new book, Parry refused to pay the signing on fee and then overspent by 2m for Ryan Babel and then overpaid for Pennant and Yossi.

we were supposed to buy Dani Alves for 12M from Sevilla. He went a season later to Barca for 20M

[Samee]

Seen as people are allowed to throw this stuff around, can the rest of us say you guys who think Rafa was flawless are shitting on his legacy? By making him seem perfect you're turning him in to a caricature and destroying all sort of context to the genuine brilliant things that he did for the club.

When have I ever said Rafa is flawless? But yeah, keep putting words in my mouth to try and get your point across.