Topic: Joey Barton. Bad wool.

[Hij]

I don't think what he said was particularly sexist to be honest, but it was pub talk and not fitting for a discussion on TV. And he did fuck up saying it because it's inevitable such a crass analogy would cause some offense, and quite rightly so.

Yeah that's probably what it is to be honest.

[QC]

Exactly, spot onYes he did.

He compared the four political parties to four women he might fuck, but they were "ugly". That's what he did. I actually rated the rest of what he said, he's a good lad is Joey, but he let himself down there in that moment, his reaction after he said it confirms that I'm right. Get annoyed at the woman who pronounced that "all footballers have their brains in their feet" which was just as sexist. I didn't say that either, but I still find that offensive as well.

He didn't say "you're all ugly politicians" or "your politics is ugly all on four sides", he compared the four parties to ugly women he wouldn't talk to, let alone dare have a sexual relationship with, come on ffs.

I agree with you that the footballer comment was equally offensive - but again, that wasn't sexist. It was a mindless sweeping generalisation.

As for the part in bold, it is evident that you are reading extremes into what he said. It isn't sexist. Being ugly is a characteristic that can be equally applied to males. He used women because he is a heterosexual male. If the comment is offensive it is because it is shallow, not sexist.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Agree with QC there. If he had said something like, 4 women that he wouldn't want to associate with then yeah that's sexist but he highlighted appearance. It's more of an offence to physically less attractive women than women in general.

[redmark]

I agree with you that the footballer comment was equally offensive - but again, that wasn't sexist. It was a mindless sweeping generalisation.

As for the part in bold, it is evident that you are reading extremes into what he said. It isn't sexist. Being ugly is a characteristic that can be equally applied to males. He used women because he is a heterosexual male. If the comment is offensive it is because it is shallow, not sexist.

Agree with QC there. If he had said something like, 4 women that he wouldn't want to associate with then yeah that's sexist but he highlighted appearance. It's more of an offence to physically less attractive women than women in general.

It's called 'objectification'; a form of sexism. The whole point is that such 'analogies' are never made about men and that women's 'worth' is disproportionately measured by physical appearance.

But hey, I'm sure a couple of young men know more about it than decades of feminists and sociologists .

[QC]

It's called 'objectification'; a form of sexism. The whole point is that such 'analogies' are never made about men and that women's 'worth' is disproportionately measured by physical appearance.

But hey, I'm sure a couple of young men know more about it than decades of feminists and sociologists .

So women never judge men by their appearance? And by this logic Joey would've been better off saying "it's like picking between 4 "dim-witted women"?

It's just overkill on the political correctness front for me. If this is the threshold by which to label someone sexist nowadays, I definitely fall into the category - and I genuinely do not think myself an individual who discriminates or is prejudicial based on someones sex.

As for your concluding remark - i'll ignore the patronising, and hugely incorrect, notion that people cannot form an opinion on certain subject matter because they're not an expert on it.

[CorKopite]

sexism my arse!!


PC gone fucking mad.

[Fiasco]

It's not sexist at all, it doesn't really correlate to sexism. It just wasn't particularly funny.

[redmark]

So women never judge men by their appearance? And by this logic Joey would've been better off saying "it's like picking between 4 "dim-witted women"?

It's just overkill on the political correctness front for me. If this is the threshold by which to label someone sexist nowadays, I definitely fall into the category - and I genuinely do not think myself an individual who discriminates or is prejudicial based on someones sex.

As for your concluding remark - i'll ignore the patronising, and hugely incorrect, notion that people cannot form an opinion on certain subject matter because they're not an expert on it.

Of course women judge men by appearance - in contexts where appearance is relevant - but I don't think you could find too many examples of that sort of analogy being made by women, about men, in such a manner. And men can be non-sexist, but judge women by their appearance in a club - where appearance and physical attraction is actually the point. The issue, of course, is that many men (and far more than vice-versa) judge women by appearance where it's really not the point.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Not all opinions are equally valid or correct, though. The point wasn't really to dismiss your opinions as 'non-expert', but to illustrate that this isn't a subject that's just come up because Joey Barton appeared on Question Time. This stuff has been debated for decades. It's complex and has an impact on how we view, judge and interact with people. It's similar to the 'racist joke' - not perhaps serious or discriminatory in itself, but can excuse or foster objectification and stereotyping; where a person is not seen or regarded as a particular individual, but as one of a category: Muslim, black guy, ugly bird, stunner.

Anyway, on the scale of battles-you-can't-win-on-the-internet, discussing what is and isn't sexist in a mostly male forum comes quite high .

[QC]

Of course women judge men by appearance - in contexts where appearance is relevant - but I don't think you could find too many examples of that sort of analogy being made by women, about men, in such a manner. And men can be non-sexist, but judge women by their appearance in a club - where appearance and physical attraction is actually the point. The issue, of course, is that many men (and far more than vice-versa) judge women by appearance where it's really not the point.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Not all opinions are equally valid or correct, though. The point wasn't really to dismiss your opinions as 'non-expert', but to illustrate that this isn't a subject that's just come up because Joey Barton appeared on Question Time. This stuff has been debated for decades. It's complex and has an impact on how we view, judge and interact with people. It's similar to the 'racist joke' - not perhaps serious or discriminatory in itself, but can excuse or foster objectification and stereotyping; where a person is not seen or regarded as a particular individual, but as one of a category: Muslim, black guy, ugly bird, stunner.

Anyway, on the scale of battles-you-can't-win-on-the-internet, discussing what is and isn't sexist in a mostly male forum comes quite high .

I guess we can leave it there then, as this is headed towards becoming a circular argument.

I'll just leave the final part in bold though, as maybe i'm not the only one who will see the rank hypocrisy in that statement...

[Hij]

I really don't care that much. Just come back from somewhere else, so I apologise for being late to the party.

I just think if you have to come up with an analogy that involves fucking women to convey your point, you have a small mind that's all. It might not be that bad, who cares, I'm sure behind closed doors all men say this sort of shit, so do I, but not on Question Time for fuck sake, I've even said I like Joey Barton, he's backed the Hillsborough campaign and is a good lad. But to compare the four parties, to four ugly women is bullshit, no doubt.

New transfer = the new 'bird' on the scene

Torres coming back = chatting up the woman who used to love you who you want to get back with

Suarez = The woman you want to get down on bended knee to and propose to

Every transfer story, every contract situation is always compared to how a man might work with a woman? I don't understand it at all. We're buying and selling blokes ffs.

We're pimps if anything for fuck sake

[Tonyh8su]

Come on lads let's get a grip here. It's PC gone mad, as usual.

Who would've that that in 2014 the nation would be arguing about such a trivial analogy and nobody is questioning the fact that Joey Fucking Barton is a panelist on Question Time!

[Hij]

Come on lads let's get a grip here. It's PC gone mad, as usual.

Who would've that that in 2014 the nation would be arguing about such a trivial analogy and nobody is questioning the fact that Joey Fucking Barton is a panelist on Question Time!

Hear hear, I've got into a massive discussion I didn't want to get into.

I just want to watch Liverpool beat Peru.

[mazlo123]

If he was gay and he said that it was the least ugly bloke then wtf would that be? It couldn't be sexist, and not really offensive. :S

And this isn't a gay vs straight debate I'm just trying to figure out why it's "sexist"?

For that reason I don't think what he said could be called sexist, but maybe offensive? To ugly people?

[Keita Success]

Bollocks like this demean the real purpose of political correctness: inequality in language. We're in a process of linguistic engineering where we can't say jack shit because that's what society expects. If Barton meant offence, he's a whopper anyway. But he obviously didn't.  Sexism shouldn't be about the terms used, but the semantics and purpose behind what they are saying. Offence should only be taken if offence is meant. 

[Enders]

Offence should only be taken if offence is meant. 

Your missus is an ugly bint. No offence like. 



I agree btw

[alonsoisared]

No fucking way was it sexist. Clearly he was trying to think of an analogy in the heat of the moment, you could describe it as unfortunate at the most but you could tell he didn't mean offence. If he described ukip as 'like the silly ugly bint trying to muscle in on a conversation with us ruddy bloody good blokes' you might have a point. People getting offended on behalf of others here.

At the same time I'd say it's a bit harsh calling him thick etc, maybe we should all leave political talk to the good old chaps at Eton, the world would be a better place then wouldn't it? Er...wait

[Anywhichwayicant]

No fucking way was it sexist. Clearly he was trying to think of an analogy in the heat of the moment, you could describe it as unfortunate at the most but you could tell he didn't mean offence. If he described ukip as 'like the silly ugly bint trying to muscle in on a conversation with us ruddy bloody good blokes' you might have a point. People getting offended on behalf of others here.

At the same time I'd say it's a bit harsh calling him thick etc, maybe we should all leave political talk to the good old chaps at Eton, the world would be a better place then wouldn't it? Er...wait

Two good paragraphs.

[Hij]

Fuck it, get lean.

Allow it. Not arsed.

[rushyman]

Quoting Nietzsche. For fucks sake

How unaware of yourself can you be? He tried to grow a moustache like him once but ended up looking like Micky Quinn on crack

[Zoomers]

I don't know what's happening with this ukip stuff but no way was that sexist. Fucking hell people love creating chaos out of small things.

[OOS]

Why the fuck was he on Question Time in the first place?

[dundeered]

Got to admire his balls for getting up and going on a show as one that's not been bred from an early age to behave more intellectually and know how to behave and respond in situations like that , he said what most working class boys with a wee bit of intelligence would say .

[jameshay]

Why the fuck was he on Question Time in the first place?

pierre van hooijdonk is on next week.

[Hij]

I just want to watch Liverpool beat Peru.

Liverpool 1 Peru 0

[Mutton Geoff]

The four ugly girls comment is sexist?

Most of what UKIP utter is Racist so your point is?

Hae apologised however the UKIP woman was rude to Audience members and shouted down all the panel as well, i know who i prefer out of Joey and the UKIP loudmouth!

[TheTeflonJohn]

Not wishing to derail the thread, and certainly not singling you out individually Tony, but this is one of the most poorly judged and over used phrase of the last decade or so. 

We live in a World where people daily get attacked (often killed) and are discriminated against because of their age, gender, sexuality, race and countless other appalling reasons.  Until that's not the case, PC won't have gone mad.

Like I say, that's not me attacking you personally Tony - yours was just the post I saw.
Absolutely.  It's BBC gone mad!

As I see it, all that's happened is someone said something on national television that millions wouldn't bat an eyelid at if it was said in a pub and someone else has seen, and taken, an opportunity to score points by attacking them for it.  That's pretty much how politics works though, isn't it?

Not too sure why you would use death, racism, discrimination etc as a reason why peoples reaction to Joeys words as not PC gone mad.

[rushyman]

I don't know what's happening with this ukip stuff but no way was that sexist. Fucking hell people love creating chaos out of small things.

Had undertones of sexism. But it was more the overwhelming thuggish idiocy of it

Like someone had let in Alf Garnet. How he's muscled his way on there god knows

[Fiasco]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion regardless of their background or education but Joey Barton strikes me as a bloke who thinks he's extremely clever just because he's read a few books and can quote some historical scholars and figures. He's so intelligent that he dumbs down his accent to fit in with the people he sometimes speaks out against. How he has became so relevant is beyond me. Clarke Carlisle is similar, albeit less controversial. Frank Lampard has an IQ of 150 and is a very well read guy, but you won't hear out about that. Our own Glen Johnson has or is currently attaining a maths degree but like Lamapard because he isn't controversial his opinion doesn't really matter (or perhaps he doesn't want the media limelight like Barton).

This is what he wants. He's an attention-whore and this is great for him. He'll often put ambiguous or slightly controversial tweets up and have people talking about it for days. He's appeared on Question Time and made a comment and now people again are talking about him. He's an average footballer with an horrendous past who seems fit to judge everyone else because he can quote Nietzsche. He's obviously had some demons and I'm not flat out calling him a c*nt (for what it's worth I believe he's active in some charitable work and such) but it's amazing how a man so troubled and a man who has caused so much trouble can be viewed upon as 'sound' because he likes to debate things and speak out.

[LukeD]

Not too sure why you would use death, racism, discrimination etc as a reason why peoples reaction to Joeys words as not PC gone mad.

Fair enough, I can understand that.  Sadly I'm not eloquent enough to explain myself properly and this isn't the thread for me to that in anyway.

[jameshay]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion regardless of their background or education

Woah.

This liberal nutcase is out of control.

[vicgill]

Come on lads let's get a grip here. It's PC gone mad, as usual.

Who would've that that in 2014 the nation would be arguing about such a trivial analogy and nobody is questioning the fact that Joey Fucking Barton is a panelist on Question Time!

Nothing new there then, well not on RAWK

[lfcshaunod]

Hang on.

A footballer made an appearance on question time? And not everyone agrees with what he says?

Well there's a shocker.

[SlowRap]

It was cringe-worthy,

He basically said that he judges women based solely on their appearance and would take the less ugly one home - that's fucking moronic and it isn't a surprise why the intelligent woman in the audience took offence to it and yes it is sexist, it's degrading the woman in question to a basic object, comparing her to a thing in the shop that you look at and "take home."

[moloch]

Gotta admire how a forum full of blokes is competing in defining what's sexist and what is not. A word of advice: stick to the football banter.

[rushyman]

Hang on.

A footballer made an appearance on question time? And not everyone agrees with what he says?

Well there's a shocker.

No

this...

He's a fucking tit that tries far, far too hard.

[gazzalfc]

His bet with Piers Moron last night just netted £2,500 each for Alder Hey and HJC.

Both are detestable idiots but money for charity is always a good thing

[kavah]

His bet with Piers Moron last night just netted £2,500 each for Alder Hey and HJC.

Both are detestable idiots but money for charity is always a good thing

Nice one Joey. Fair play. And top predicting.

[sinnermichael]

 

[Lad]

 

Not embarrassing at all. Has he seen the dead and dying children ?

[rob1408]

 

Not the place for it, but I agree with Barton and I haven't said that very often.