Author Topic: Struggling with depression  (Read 625952 times)

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8200 on: October 1, 2023, 09:09:45 pm »
In reply to this post by Paul F in the Fallout Shelter Mk2 thread.

Paul..

Rewinding a bit to suicide. And absolutely not suggesting that the fairer sex doesnt bear the same problems as men . But could it be that rates amongst women are far lower as they are more likely to talk about their problems?  Or am I stereotyping and suggesting talking is all that needs to be done.


No, I don't think you're stereotyping with that. Generally speaking, females have traditionally tended to be more open about their issues to friends and health professionals. In short, females tend to have better support networks than males.

I remember when I was training in mental health it was stated that males are far more likely to commit suicide after the death of a life partner than females are. I don't have the stats on that to hand though. Again, much comes down to support networks and the willingness or otherwise to seek help and support.

In my experience, younger males are getting a lot better at acknowledging their issues and seeking support, so hopefully things improve as times goes by. Many older males often still feel a real stigma around acknowledging their vulnerabilities though. My own Dad could never share his vulnerability when he was with us. I went the opposite way and became very open regarding my own stuff. I had no qualms about seeking help when I was struggling.

Yes, men and women often have very similar issues to deal with, but have often been brought up and influenced by prevailing culture in society to deal with them differently. In fact, males were told for far too long to 'man up' and 'get a grip' rather than acknowledge an issue and learn to deal with it.

Prevailing cultural pressures tended to encourage emotional growth and maturity in females, but not in males. So it's no surprise that, in general, females are more skilled at dealing with emotional trauma and generally have better support around them in times of crisis.
« Last Edit: October 1, 2023, 09:15:09 pm by Son of Spion »
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Offline spen71

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8201 on: October 1, 2023, 10:12:11 pm »
I’m really struggling at the moment.    Every night, I lie in bed thinking, it would be so much easier to just go to sleep and not wake up.   I would never do anything about it,   As wouldn’t leave my daughters without a dad.       Every morning is a battle
To get out of the door and get to work.   At random times I just feel like bursting into tears.

I’m not sure if this is depression (I’ve always been a sad person) or it is PAWS.   Some of you may remember I was over 8 years sober, until my dad died March 2020.     Fell off the wagon spectacularly and managed to sober up 3 months ago.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8202 on: October 2, 2023, 12:05:04 am »
In reply to this post by Paul F in the Fallout Shelter Mk2 thread.

Paul..

Rewinding a bit to suicide. And absolutely not suggesting that the fairer sex doesnt bear the same problems as men . But could it be that rates amongst women are far lower as they are more likely to talk about their problems?  Or am I stereotyping and suggesting talking is all that needs to be done.


No, I don't think you're stereotyping with that. Generally speaking, females have traditionally tended to be more open about their issues to friends and health professionals. In short, females tend to have better support networks than males.

I remember when I was training in mental health it was stated that males are far more likely to commit suicide after the death of a life partner than females are. I don't have the stats on that to hand though. Again, much comes down to support networks and the willingness or otherwise to seek help and support.

In my experience, younger males are getting a lot better at acknowledging their issues and seeking support, so hopefully things improve as times goes by. Many older males often still feel a real stigma around acknowledging their vulnerabilities though. My own Dad could never share his vulnerability when he was with us. I went the opposite way and became very open regarding my own stuff. I had no qualms about seeking help when I was struggling.

Yes, men and women often have very similar issues to deal with, but have often been brought up and influenced by prevailing culture in society to deal with them differently. In fact, males were told for far too long to 'man up' and 'get a grip' rather than acknowledge an issue and learn to deal with it.

Prevailing cultural pressures tended to encourage emotional growth and maturity in females, but not in males. So it's no surprise that, in general, females are more skilled at dealing with emotional trauma and generally have better support around them in times of crisis.
Attempts or threatened suicides are higher for women but actual deaths are higher for men. That tells us a lot about psychology, taking pills or standing next to the rail track can be a cry for help and asking someone to notice the pain the individual is in. Making sure your suicide happens goes beyond that, it's not a cry for a help it's finding yourself in a position where you see no way out.
The tragic thing is that, invariably, there is a way out, not always but usually. I always remember a programme where someone who jumped off the Golden Gate bridge (pretty much unsurvivable) ended up surviving. He said that the second he jumped he realised he wanted to live, he was lucky. For those who feel there is no way out of your situation, seek some help. If you are in Merseyside (or in London) I posted links a few pages back. That said, there is someone to help in most places, even online (including us)
« Last Edit: October 2, 2023, 01:16:04 am by Black Bull Nova »
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Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8203 on: October 2, 2023, 12:40:47 am »
^
I watched that programme about people jumping off the Golden Gate and remember the guy saying he changed his mind as soon as he jumped.

I agree that there usually is a way out. The tragedy being that when consumed and overwhelmed, you simply cannot see it or comprehend the possibility of it existing. I've been in that position a number of times and it's horribly frightening. A desolate, lonely place to find yourself, with no apparent means of escape.

Perception is a strange thing, isn't it? My current mindset is stable and pretty healthy. As I am now, I can't even begin to get my head around how I got so horrifically bad in the past. But when I was like that, I couldn't comprehend how I could ever feel stable and mentally healthy. For me, it's like two extremes that cannot recognize each other. They're both me, but two very different places in the same mind. I'm not bipolar. I think it just highlights the vast range of emotions we are all capable of experiencing.

Anyway, you are absolutely right. There definitely are ways out, through, or over problems even when we can't see them. As you said; seek help. It can be a lifesaver.
« Last Edit: October 2, 2023, 12:42:18 am by Son of Spion »
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8204 on: October 2, 2023, 07:01:02 pm »
I’m really struggling at the moment.    Every night, I lie in bed thinking, it would be so much easier to just go to sleep and not wake up.   I would never do anything about it,   As wouldn’t leave my daughters without a dad.       Every morning is a battle
To get out of the door and get to work.   At random times I just feel like bursting into tears.

I’m not sure if this is depression (I’ve always been a sad person) or it is PAWS.   Some of you may remember I was over 8 years sober, until my dad died March 2020.     Fell off the wagon spectacularly and managed to sober up 3 months ago.

Spen 8 years and now another 3 months is incredible, you have it in you to keep going. It could definitely be either depression or PAWS, I'm sure you are aware from during your 8 year stint the psychological withdrawal can last months and even longer. This could be just your brain healing itself which can only be a good thing. Really hard to say though, maybe the depression has been there behind everything else. Get yourself talking to a specialist about it and make things easier for yourself, life shouldn't be a daily struggle.

You probably know all about PAWS but for anyone else who might find it interesting I found some good info below. I found the following passage very enlightening:

"You may go a few weeks with no PAWS, but wake up one morning after having disturbed, unrestful sleep, extreme fatigue, irritability and anger outbursts, as well as various mood swings. If you’re not prepared for it, you may find yourself at risk for relapse."

https://www.addictioncenter.com/treatment/post-acute-withdrawal-syndrome-paws/
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8205 on: October 2, 2023, 07:31:06 pm »
Hey everyone, don't know what to say but just writing this as a bit of therapy.

Struggling recently with the anniversary of the loss of a close friend (he was the second one in two years). Still relatively young at 32, it's something I've managed okay in recent months as therapy has helped. Talking to families and friends help.

But to make things worse and to make me feel as if the whole world has come tumbling down, I was mugged along a towpath today by two guys with a machete on my lunchbreak. Closest I've felt to being on the verge of my life ending, and I'm still processing that trauma.

Everything just feels awful, out of my control and fearful about everything now. I am, or was, a generally optimistic person, but it feels like the worst luck in the world. Properly taken the wind out of my sails about everything, my interests, my job (a job I love), my ability to switch off. Lost my appetite and struggling to move off the sofa since my work let me leave early. Today has just felt the absolute worst.

I'm fearful of the places I live in now, on top of my life and other people. Don't know what I'm writing really but just need to vent this somewhere.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8206 on: October 2, 2023, 07:36:21 pm »
Hey everyone, don't know what to say but just writing this as a bit of therapy.

Struggling recently with the anniversary of the loss of a close friend (he was the second one in two years). Still relatively young at 32, it's something I've managed okay in recent months as therapy has helped. Talking to families and friends help.

But to make things worse and to make me feel as if the whole world has come tumbling down, I was mugged along a towpath today by two guys with a machete. Closest I've felt to being on the verge of my life ending, and I'm still processing that trauma.

Everything just feels awful, out of my control and fearful about everything now. I am, or was, a generally optimistic person, but it feels like the worst luck in the world. Properly taken the wind out of my sails about everything, my interests, my job (a job I love), my ability to switch off. Today has just felt the absolute worst.

I'm fearful of the places I live in now, on top of my life and other people. Don't know what I'm writing really but just need to vent this somewhere.

Wow. That’s horrendous. Not sure if you want to go down a legal route or seek advice from Victim Support but this type of incident can linger.

I had my wallet snatched on a train in France whilst hemmed in by two blokes and it only hit me later that if I)d known and resisted it could have ended up worse. But at least it wasn’t in my own City.

I’m sure you’ll get plenty of support from friends and family and from cpsome if the mire empathetic posters in here.

Offline damomad

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8207 on: October 2, 2023, 07:53:55 pm »
MattD that's fucking horrific. There's some absolute scum about, no respect for their fellow man, doing it with a weapon too, they'll get what's coming to them someday soon, imagine the pathetic lives they must already live, they are the dregs.

Go easy on yourself, it will take a few days to get over the initial shock. You've lived to tell the tale which is the main thing and you will recover from this. Take care mate and vent all you need to, a lot of people have had similar experiences (although not with a fucking machete). I was mugged on holiday once and have never felt so powerless, really knocked the confidence out of me. It's just a story now though.
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8208 on: October 2, 2023, 07:57:22 pm »
Scary shit Matt, I hope you’re ok. There’s far more good people out there than bad but sadly the bad make it worse for the rest of us and something like that is horrible to deal with. My son got mugged for his phone last year, he’s barely wanted to go out since.

Have you got friends and family you can talk to if you need to?

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8209 on: October 2, 2023, 08:52:00 pm »
I’m really struggling at the moment.    Every night, I lie in bed thinking, it would be so much easier to just go to sleep and not wake up.   I would never do anything about it,   As wouldn’t leave my daughters without a dad.       Every morning is a battle
To get out of the door and get to work.   At random times I just feel like bursting into tears.

I’m not sure if this is depression (I’ve always been a sad person) or it is PAWS.   Some of you may remember I was over 8 years sober, until my dad died March 2020.     Fell off the wagon spectacularly and managed to sober up 3 months ago.

Hi mate
I can relate to the night time issues.  I think about suicide the most at night and at my most depressed when  I wake up.

This sounds daft to say outloud, but I listen to political podcasts. That helps me get angry or sad about the state of the country instead of my own life.  Ive found it helpful

Good luck and congratulations on the sobriety you're obviously very couragous
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Offline ianburns252

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8210 on: October 2, 2023, 10:10:20 pm »
Hey everyone, don't know what to say but just writing this as a bit of therapy.

Struggling recently with the anniversary of the loss of a close friend (he was the second one in two years). Still relatively young at 32, it's something I've managed okay in recent months as therapy has helped. Talking to families and friends help.

But to make things worse and to make me feel as if the whole world has come tumbling down, I was mugged along a towpath today by two guys with a machete on my lunchbreak. Closest I've felt to being on the verge of my life ending, and I'm still processing that trauma.

Everything just feels awful, out of my control and fearful about everything now. I am, or was, a generally optimistic person, but it feels like the worst luck in the world. Properly taken the wind out of my sails about everything, my interests, my job (a job I love), my ability to switch off. Lost my appetite and struggling to move off the sofa since my work let me leave early. Today has just felt the absolute worst.

I'm fearful of the places I live in now, on top of my life and other people. Don't know what I'm writing really but just need to vent this somewhere.

So sorry to hear you have gone through that mate - can only imagine how terrifying that must have been and no wonder it has shaken you up so.

I can relate so much to feeling like you have no control and fear has taken over somewhat. When you are generally a positive or optimistic person (as am I - in spite of some of my posts in here) to have that taken from you so violently completely breaks your worldview and outlook such that it can make you question your very being. Coupled with an experience where the worst could have happened then I think your response feels perfectly natural and will take some time to rebuild.

Speaking about it here (or in any space where you feel safe) is a great start - putting my problems/thoughts/feelings/fears into words and into the world can often help me make them tangible at which point I use that to help me break it down into manageable chunks which I can then deal with more easily. It may not work for you but I wanted to offer my experiences in case it helps.

Keep your head up mate - you'll get through this!

Offline ianburns252

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8211 on: October 2, 2023, 10:18:58 pm »
Hi mate
I can relate to the night time issues.  I think about suicide the most at night and at my most depressed when  I wake up.

This sounds daft to say outloud, but I listen to political podcasts. That helps me get angry or sad about the state of the country instead of my own life.  Ive found it helpful

Good luck and congratulations on the sobriety you're obviously very couragous

Very similar to me - and sometimes I'll just stay up until silly o'clock and go back to doing work (for example) to keep my mind from it.

If I do go for just trying to get my head down I tend to go with putting the TV on (with a timer to avoid the blue light problem) and sticking on shows that I've seen a million times over to help my mind shut down - they are enjoyable (which helps put me in a more positive mind set), I know them inside and out so don't need too much brain power to follow it, and I just let myself drift to it.

Spen - your strength with fighting sobriety is genuinely inspiring mate and I fully believe you have that strength to keep on going as you have been.

Can honestly say that this thread may be the representation of the best of RAWK (alongside Phil Scranton's on Hillsborough and Paris - so maybe makes this 1c to their 1a and 1b) as the strength, support, openness, and respect shown to each other is truly heart warming and with all the negativity in the world reminds me that looking for the best in people and believing in them isn't futile

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8212 on: October 3, 2023, 12:40:50 am »
Hi mate
I can relate to the night time issues.  I think about suicide the most at night and at my most depressed when  I wake up.

This sounds daft to say outloud, but I listen to political podcasts. That helps me get angry or sad about the state of the country instead of my own life.  Ive found it helpful

Good luck and congratulations on the sobriety you're obviously very couragous
Podcasts are a saviour, they can both distract and help feel like there are others out there. Even falling asleep with the radio on is recommended.

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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8213 on: October 3, 2023, 12:42:05 am »
But to make things worse and to make me feel as if the whole world has come tumbling down, I was mugged along a towpath today by two guys with a machete on my lunchbreak. Closest I've felt to being on the verge of my life ending, and I'm still processing that trauma.
That's PTSD doubled/tripled, I recommend speaking to someone/getting help
You take care
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8214 on: October 3, 2023, 07:14:50 pm »
Thanks everyone for the support, and I don't mean to hijack this thread in anyway. I just want to say that I'm with many of you in the feelings shared here. A completely broken worldview, the powerlessness, the pointlessness, looking on to the world with the most cynical viewpoint ever, a continuing sense of loss of wonder and innocence in life. When the shock subsides, it amplifies every cynical thing I feel and life feels a drag.
« Last Edit: October 3, 2023, 07:18:19 pm by mattD »

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8215 on: October 10, 2023, 04:57:17 pm »
Good little video from Norwich for World Mental Health Day.

https://twitter.com/NorwichCityFC/status/1711630140227064183
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8216 on: October 12, 2023, 10:14:59 am »
Good little video from Norwich for World Mental Health Day.

https://twitter.com/NorwichCityFC/status/1711630140227064183

That was amazing. Obviously knew why the video was about so was expecting something to happen to the guy on the left but really was a hard hitting little twist at the end.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8217 on: October 13, 2023, 12:21:17 am »
That was amazing. Obviously knew why the video was about so was expecting something to happen to the guy on the left but really was a hard hitting little twist at the end.

We become good actors.    People always say how cheerful I am,   Little do they realise I feel like crying a lot of the time   

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8218 on: October 13, 2023, 07:03:30 pm »
That Norwich video is extremely touching.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8219 on: October 14, 2023, 12:20:00 am »
The Norwich video certainly hit the spot.
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8220 on: October 14, 2023, 12:35:19 am »
We are innately private about the things that dominate our mind, humour is a great way of putting other people off the scent and allowing us to maintain our privacy, dignity and pride. It may apply to women but it definitely applies to many men. It's partly out of a fear of seeming weak or needy but it can also be a form of kindness, sensitivity which suggests we do not wish to inflict pain on others so we use humour to lighten the mood for others in the hope they don't get infected with what we already know is not good. Don't come into this world, it's not good, I'm using humour to try and improve your mood and keep you out.
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Offline Jwils21

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8221 on: October 23, 2023, 08:07:32 am »
A completely broken worldview, the powerlessness, the pointlessness, looking on to the world with the most cynical viewpoint ever

I came in here for a read as I’ve become very self aware of how cynical I am.

I’ve had high levels of anxiety dating back to two very tough years in 2016/17, and it got to the point earlier this year where I couldn’t function properly and had to take time off. I’m now wondering if my cynicism is a knock on effect. I absolutely despise the toxic wellness culture that exists at the moment and couldn’t think of anything worse than “practicing gratitude” and “embracing positivity”. That’s all you get when you look into becoming less cynical. The cynic in me says “that’s just for sociopaths who want attention on the internet”. I feel like I’m in a bit of a vicious cycle with it now. Does anyone have any genuine tips for becoming less cynical, accepting the things you don’t like/agree with, and just generally being more positive?

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8222 on: October 23, 2023, 08:33:00 am »
I came in here for a read as I’ve become very self aware of how cynical I am.

I’ve had high levels of anxiety dating back to two very tough years in 2016/17, and it got to the point earlier this year where I couldn’t function properly and had to take time off. I’m now wondering if my cynicism is a knock on effect. I absolutely despise the toxic wellness culture that exists at the moment and couldn’t think of anything worse than “practicing gratitude” and “embracing positivity”. That’s all you get when you look into becoming less cynical. The cynic in me says “that’s just for sociopaths who want attention on the internet”. I feel like I’m in a bit of a vicious cycle with it now. Does anyone have any genuine tips for becoming less cynical, accepting the things you don’t like/agree with, and just generally being more positive?

I'm similar to you in many ways. I loathe the mindfulness crap being peddled by anyone and everyone. I also hate the relentless phoney bullshit I see in professional environment. Everything is cool, failures are great, everyone is positive and eternally developing. I mean, maybe you are - but I would say you're all full of fucking shit and playing that pretend game is making collective us incapable of coping with real struggle, in work or otherwise. Since when is ugliness, pain, mistakes, struggle something we can erase from our lives?

For me, I'm embracing my cynic but also trying to turn it from an angry short fused teenager into a sage humorous old fart. I'm also taking active steps to disengage from things that had the most toxic effect on me - such as social media. Do your thing, don't seek out confrontation - but call out bullshit when needed, even just within yourself. Don't stop recognising it just to be more 'positive', whatever that means. Gain positivity in how you channel your inner cynic, not by silencing it.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8223 on: October 23, 2023, 09:10:53 am »
I'm similar to you in many ways. I loathe the mindfulness crap being peddled by anyone and everyone. I also hate the relentless phoney bullshit I see in professional environment. Everything is cool, failures are great, everyone is positive and eternally developing. I mean, maybe you are - but I would say you're all full of fucking shit and playing that pretend game is making collective us incapable of coping with real struggle, in work or otherwise. Since when is ugliness, pain, mistakes, struggle something we can erase from our lives?

For me, I'm embracing my cynic but also trying to turn it from an angry short fused teenager into a sage humorous old fart. I'm also taking active steps to disengage from things that had the most toxic effect on me - such as social media. Do your thing, don't seek out confrontation - but call out bullshit when needed, even just within yourself. Don't stop recognising it just to be more 'positive', whatever that means. Gain positivity in how you channel your inner cynic, not by silencing it.

Thanks mate. A lot of it stems from the workplace for me as I work in a HR team, but I deal with systems/processes versus engagement and wellbeing. I see a positive employee experience being a job where you have the tools to do what you need to do, you can be confident you’ll get paid properly each month and you have somewhere to go if you have employment related questions. But my team gets nowhere near as much investment and praise as the team responsible for the softer stuff. It’s a thin line because I understand why (and agree with) increasing awareness of certain things, but again my inner cynic wonders what the ulterior motive is.

I’m at a career level now that I’m happy with at my age, I want to stay here for a bit and learn some new things then maybe look at a next move in a year or two. But I’m being continually fed buzzwords like development, growth and self-actualisation, my inner cynic has a field day here because the team set up to work on the “employee experience” all seem to ironically be in it for growing their own personal brand. If you do a workshop on how to manage your workload better, the photo shouldn’t be a selfie of the person delivering the session, put it that way.

Binning off social media definitely helps. I only have Facebook atm and that’s just to help plan an upcoming event, after which it will go back in the bin. Twitter/X was always the worst, it distorts your view of the world completely and feeds the cynicism monster but you barely even notice.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8224 on: October 23, 2023, 11:53:54 am »
I came in here for a read as I’ve become very self aware of how cynical I am.

I’ve had high levels of anxiety dating back to two very tough years in 2016/17, and it got to the point earlier this year where I couldn’t function properly and had to take time off. I’m now wondering if my cynicism is a knock on effect. I absolutely despise the toxic wellness culture that exists at the moment and couldn’t think of anything worse than “practicing gratitude” and “embracing positivity”. That’s all you get when you look into becoming less cynical. The cynic in me says “that’s just for sociopaths who want attention on the internet”. I feel like I’m in a bit of a vicious cycle with it now. Does anyone have any genuine tips for becoming less cynical, accepting the things you don’t like/agree with, and just generally being more positive?
I think a certain level of cynicism is pretty normal and healthy. However, it can become problematic when it clouds things and impacts negatively on your daily life.

I used to be extremely cynical and extremely negative. My life experience taught me to be that way. It was something of a defence mechanism for me. It helped me in some ways, but was a millstone around my neck in others. I had to create a more balanced outlook in order to move on and have a better life. That took a lot of time to do.

I can definitely relate to a dislike of what I call the 'Cult of Positivity'. Something both you and Zlen touched on. I hate the buzzwords and phrases we often hear. There is usually a nugget of truth and wisdom lurking in there, but it often gets flowered up, repackaged and sold to people who are often hurting and confused. It can all feel so far removed from your reality. A bit pompous too.

Take Zlen's dislike of Mindfulness. I was onto Mindfulness many years ago, but a whole industry has been created around it now. For me, it distorts a very simple and basic thing. In essence, all Mindfulness is about is helping you to focus on your present moment. Thing is, most of us are so wrapped up in regrets over the past. Trauma in the past. Bad experience in the past, and also worry, anxiety and fear over our future that we actually find it difficult to live in and get the best out of our present. All Mindfulness is about is helping us declutter and focus more on the present moment. It's a very simple, basic concept. It helps too, but the whole industry some have built around it can be off-putting.

A lot of people are taking basic counselling/therapy principles and creating a whole industry for themselves by flowering them up and selling them on. Everyone needs to make a living I suppose. The self-help industry is absolutely booming. I've used it myself in the past too. I'll check anything out to see if I can find something useful in there. I don't get bogged down in it though, drowning in buzzwords and happy clappy nonsense.

"Development, growth and self-actualization." All taken from counselling. Simple things used as buzzwords in workplaces. All self-actualization is, is fulfilling your potential. Being the best you can be. Nothing complex in there, but some people will sell an entire workshop on the subject and make it sound extremely complicated.

I'm not sure we can fully move away from cynicism. We live in an often brutal world full of self-interest. I think it pays to stay mindful of that, but without letting it overwhelm us and rule how we live our own lives.

We can't really change the world, but we can change how we view and act within our own little piece of it. We can't change other people either. We just have to let them get on with being them while we be us.

Being overly cynical gets in the way of living our own lives. The focus is too external, and those externals end up getting in our way. I think bringing the focus back to our own lives and actions is more healthy. At least then we are working with something we can actually influence.

As far as other people go, let them get on with being them. If we import other people's shite into our own lives, all it does is stink the place out. The world is full of it, so be selective on who and what you invite into your little piece of it.

Whatever you value doing and being in life, do it and be it. You can then be rightly positive about yourself and your direction. Genuinely, organically positive. No happy clappy bullshit. Just you being who you want to be in the best way you can.

Your inner cynic will no doubt still have plenty to say, so just make room for him. In a way, he's looking out for you. Thing is though, you have the choice over what to take note of and what not to. You get to decide who and what is best for you, not him.


« Last Edit: October 23, 2023, 11:58:04 am by Son of Spion »
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8225 on: October 23, 2023, 01:08:36 pm »
Lovely post SoS. 👍🏻

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8226 on: October 23, 2023, 01:17:16 pm »
Brilliant words. Thank you SoS.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8227 on: October 23, 2023, 01:37:46 pm »
 :thumbup :thumbup

All the best to you both.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8228 on: October 23, 2023, 02:04:38 pm »
(On Heaven)
“Oh, hold on; there’s plenty of pain here—but it don’t kill.  There’s plenty of suffering here, but it don’t last.  You see, happiness ain’t a thing in itself—it’s only a contrast with something that ain’t pleasant.  That’s all it is.  There ain’t a thing you can mention that is happiness in its own self—it’s only so by contrast with the other thing.  And so, as soon as the novelty is over and the force of the contrast dulled, it ain’t happiness any longer, and you have to get something fresh.  Well, there’s plenty of pain and suffering in heaven—consequently there’s plenty of contrasts, and just no end of happiness.”
 
Captain Stormfields Visit to Heaven, Mark Twain (1907),  he was 74 when he wrote that, He’d had more than his share of life’s pains and more was to come for him.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2023, 02:19:32 pm by Black Bull Nova »
aarf, aarf, aarf.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8229 on: November 24, 2023, 10:26:54 am »
I'm fed up and need to vent.

I'm stuck in a job surrounded by morons and managed by an incompetent boss, where there are zero prospects of promotion, on a project that is destined to die at any time between 5 and 10 years from now, at which point I will be offered redundancy or another dead end position. Of the two guys in my team the one that is actually able to do his job without constant supervision is about to leave on short notice and I will have to train someone new from scratch.

There are no decent job opportunities for me outside my current company in the city where I live or anywhere nearby and my salary is shit compared to the equivalent role anywhere else in Europe. On top of that I am absolutely sick of the city itself because of the climate, which is absolutely soul destroying, and the lack of anything to do in my spare time for most of the year.

So I am now looking for a job in another location just to get out of this fucking death spiral. That means that, apart from facing the frustration of being rejected for positions that I am clearly qualified for without any explanation, I am also struggling with the guilt of trying to arrange a move to another location for selfish reasons when my wife has 2 close family members in care homes here and would basically have to leave them to rot there if we move away.

It genuinely feels like there is no possible scenario where we can both be happy. Fuck this shit.
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8230 on: November 24, 2023, 10:47:32 am »
I'm fed up and need to vent.

I'm stuck in a job surrounded by morons and managed by an incompetent boss, where there are zero prospects of promotion, on a project that is destined to die at any time between 5 and 10 years from now, at which point I will be offered redundancy or another dead end position. Of the two guys in my team the one that is actually able to do his job without constant supervision is about to leave on short notice and I will have to train someone new from scratch.

There are no decent job opportunities for me outside my current company in the city where I live or anywhere nearby and my salary is shit compared to the equivalent role anywhere else in Europe. On top of that I am absolutely sick of the city itself because of the climate, which is absolutely soul destroying, and the lack of anything to do in my spare time for most of the year.

So I am now looking for a job in another location just to get out of this fucking death spiral. That means that, apart from facing the frustration of being rejected for positions that I am clearly qualified for without any explanation, I am also struggling with the guilt of trying to arrange a move to another location for selfish reasons when my wife has 2 close family members in care homes here and would basically have to leave them to rot there if we move away.

It genuinely feels like there is no possible scenario where we can both be happy. Fuck this shit.

Can your job be delivered in a remote or hybrid capacity mate?

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8231 on: November 24, 2023, 12:18:08 pm »
Can your job be delivered in a remote or hybrid capacity mate?

Not really, I can manage one or maybe two days a week home working but much more than that would make it impossible
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8232 on: November 25, 2023, 09:39:10 am »
Does anyone have experience with Anti depressants?

A few weeks ago I was put on Paroexitine. They were suggested by my therapist who asked me to contact my GP.

I dont think I like them

Lat night not all my mates were going out, a few where, but I couldn't be arsed. I didnt even watch HIGNFY or The last leg, was literally in bed for 9pm.

Were playing City in a few hours and I have no pre match nerves or excitement. I just feel flat and really weird.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8233 on: November 25, 2023, 09:58:36 am »
Does anyone have experience with Anti depressants?

A few weeks ago I was put on Paroexitine. They were suggested by my therapist who asked me to contact my GP.

I dont think I like them

Lat night not all my mates were going out, a few where, but I couldn't be arsed. I didnt even watch HIGNFY or The last leg, was literally in bed for 9pm.

Were playing City in a few hours and I have no pre match nerves or excitement. I just feel flat and really weird.

My experience with them has been that they are poison, mate. After an initial (short) period of feeling good, they just dull the problem and make you a shadow of yourself rather than deal with the source. They keep you coming back for more and more because you end up relying on them, getting different strengths when the previous ones don't work. Go with your gut instinct on them.

Every day I am fighting my depression off. Two of the best things I can recommend to help with this is getting a gym membership and lifting weights, and secondly writing in a journal every day and having a conversation with yourself. Eventually, I have found, you will find an inner voice inside you that is stronger than the depressed one, and over time it starts to take control in a positive way. Depression I have learned can't be cured externally with things like pills, it has to come within.

If you're not doing some regular exercise and pushing yourself, please give it a go. Happy to talk in DMs if you like mate.




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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8234 on: November 25, 2023, 10:09:42 am »
Good points made by Hestoic. I'm not sure what I'm going through, if it's depression, but my outlook on life has been dark to say the least. I've stayed away from any sort of anti-depressants because I know they'll make me reliant on them. As for the gym, I hate the place but love the workouts, it does help. There may be pain throughout my whole body afterwards but I'm safe in the knowledge my body will be seeing the benefits in the long run.

I'm also hoping to take on a hobby like archery. Used to do it before, and after watching some programs about old war tactics and the Mongol Empire, it's made me want to reactivate that hobby. Goes without saying my PM's also open if you want a chat.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8235 on: November 25, 2023, 10:15:30 am »
My experience with them has been that they are poison, mate. After an initial (short) period of feeling good, they just dull the problem and make you a shadow of yourself rather than deal with the source. They keep you coming back for more and more because you end up relying on them, getting different strengths when the previous ones don't work. Go with your gut instinct on them.

Every day I am fighting my depression off. Two of the best things I can recommend to help with this is getting a gym membership and lifting weights, and secondly writing in a journal every day and having a conversation with yourself. Eventually, I have found, you will find an inner voice inside you that is stronger than the depressed one, and over time it starts to take control in a positive way. Depression I have learned can't be cured externally with things like pills, it has to come within.

If you're not doing some regular exercise and pushing yourself, please give it a go. Happy to talk in DMs if you like mate.

Thanks for the reply, but Im quite physically disabled after a stroke so the Gym wouldn't be much use, I do dumbbells with my right arm to increase the strength there as my left doesn't work, Ive been doing them for 2 years and they have helped me progress physically

FTR my issues are more anxiety and catastrophising than depression.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8236 on: November 25, 2023, 10:29:03 am »
Thanks for the reply, but Im quite physically disabled after a stroke so the Gym wouldn't be much use, I do dumbbells with my right arm to increase the strength there as my left doesn't work, Ive been doing them for 2 years and they have helped me progress physically

FTR my issues are more anxiety and catastrophising than depression.

That's good bro that you are doing something considering your physical condition, so good on you. I would really recommend keeping it up if you are able.

The journal is another thing which definitely helps with the anxiety and catastrophising - I suffer from it daily too mate over really stupid shit. My wife went away for work earlier in the year and stayed at a Travel Lodge that they put the staff in. I read the reviews on the first night out of 4 that she was away. One of them about 3 months prior was that a woman had woken up in the night because a man had entered the room and had help from the staff, so that sent me into a nervous fit. I wrote it all down in my journal how I was feeling and when I came back to it in a more sober state of mind, I was actually able to see the batshit crazy in my head and was then actually able to address it. I know that all sounds weird, but we're all weird in our own ways and I was able to link that fear that night to other things that had happened in my life.

Once you shine that light on something and you're able to go back and read it either the next day or weeks or months after, it will be more beneficial than I can even describe. And I know that you're able to type on a keyboard on here so I know you can pick up a pen and write.  :P

Good points made by Hestoic. I'm not sure what I'm going through, if it's depression, but my outlook on life has been dark to say the least. I've stayed away from any sort of anti-depressants because I know they'll make me reliant on them. As for the gym, I hate the place but love the workouts, it does help. There may be pain throughout my whole body afterwards but I'm safe in the knowledge my body will be seeing the benefits in the long run.

I'm also hoping to take on a hobby like archery. Used to do it before, and after watching some programs about old war tactics and the Mongol Empire, it's made me want to reactivate that hobby. Goes without saying my PM's also open if you want a chat.

Do it mate. 100% go for it.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8237 on: November 25, 2023, 11:30:45 am »


I do write things down, in moments of clarity I write down positive stuff on what Im catastrophising about, then read it back and it helps
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8238 on: November 25, 2023, 02:29:07 pm »
Does anyone have experience with Anti depressants?

A few weeks ago I was put on Paroexitine. They were suggested by my therapist who asked me to contact my GP.

I dont think I like them

Lat night not all my mates were going out, a few where, but I couldn't be arsed. I didnt even watch HIGNFY or The last leg, was literally in bed for 9pm.

Were playing City in a few hours and I have no pre match nerves or excitement. I just feel flat and really weird.
I have long experience of anti-depressants. A few factors have literally saved my life over the years, and anti-depressants have been one of those factors. They're a double-edged sword though, and need to be used wisely. I've been dealing with a number of related issues since I was a young child. Severe generalised anxiety and severe social anxiety disorder, which led to many bouts of depression and long-standing suicidal ideology and self-harm. To blot all that out and try to live, I'd drink ridiculous amounts of alcohol just to get out the front door. That brings its own problems, as you can imagine.

I add all that into the post for context. Basically, I didn't start on medication lightly. I was going to end up dead if I didn't at least try it again. I say "again" because I was put on them as a teenager, and they totally wiped me out. I couldn't stay awake. it was a long time ago so I don't recall what they gave me. Not something in popular use these days, I imagine. Anyway, I had to come off them and I steered clear for many years afterwards.

These days I have experience with the SSRI type of anti-depressants. Firstly Escitalopram, then Sertraline. As I said earlier, they helped save my life, but I don't recommend anyone go on them without careful consideration and thought. They can be easy to go on, but often difficult to get off.

These meds are also not really meant to be seen as a cure-all. They won't fix any of your problems. What they can do is help give you a more stable base to build on, though. A lot of people go on them and just expect to feel better about their lives. Well, meds are a potential assistance, not a miracle worker.

In my case, I was trying to build my life on constantly shifting emotional sand. I'd go to bed in one frame of mind and awake in the morning in another. A chaos of changing, conflicting emotions. A war inside my head. And that was before I even tried to get through the day. Constantly emotionally and physically draining. This is where meds eventually helped me. They helped rein in the chaos to a level I could at least try to work with.

Initial experience wasn't good, but I'd researched them and knew what to expect. I actually felt worse on them at the start. I was habitually clenching my teeth to the point of breaking one. I'd have sweats, feel hot, then cold. I was all over the place. My spatial awareness went to the point where I didn't drive unless I had to, and only at night when it was quiet. I actually logged a journal on my experience of the meds, day by day.

What everyone should be told when going on these meds is that the first six weeks or so can be quite rocky. Not for everyone, but it is common. You can feel worse before you feel more stable. This is brain chemistry we're talking about here. Too few people are told about this, so take them and expect to feel the benefit within days. The side-effects can kick in, they suddenly panic and say "these aren't working" so they throw them in the bin.

Once deciding that these meds are genuinely necessary, it's best to give them at least six weeks of regular use before even making a judgement on whether or not they are making a difference. I'd say even two months going by my own experience. For me, the side-effects did stabilise and I felt more able to then start the actual work necessary to improve my life.

Meds don't change your life. What you do whilst on them is what changes your life. I got some counselling. I looked at different therapies and applied aspects of them to my life. I got active and did things with my day that I valued doing.

I've said it a million times in here so won't labour the point, but I use aspects of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) to deal with thoughts. I think I was born a world champion catastrophiser, so this helped enormously. I don't battle with thoughts anymore, so they have no power over me.

Meds are meant to be used this way. As an assistant towards what you are doing with your life to improve it. Too many people just sit back and expect the meds to do all the work. Well, they don't and they can't. Whatever your problems are before you went on meds are still your problems when you are on them. But meds might just help smooth the way a little so you can navigate your way through.

Whatever work people need to do in order to get past their issues, they still need to do whilst on meds. Otherwise, they change nothing. Unrealistic expectations are a big reason why many bin meds off and say "they didn't work." Well, they do work. They do have an effect, but they don't change your life. You have to do that bit.

It's no surprise that meds are known to work much better when used alongside counselling/therapy. This is because the problematic issues are being looked at and addressed alongside the use of the meds, which hopefully are helping to bring a semblance of emotional stability, thus aiding that process.

People don't necessarily have to go for counselling/therapy though. I also did a hell of a lot of self help. Cherry picking things I thought might help then trying them out. Trial and error. Suck it and see. So long as we're taking steps to improve our day, it's all good. It all builds momentum in the right direction for us.

Meds? Well yes, there are side-effects. We have to ask in our own individual case if those side-effects are a worthwhile trade off. If so, then it's worth being on them. In my case, the trade-off is worth it.

Expectations? It pays to ask what you expect meds to bring to your table. If your expectations are unrealistic then it might be worth reconsidering.

They are a potential help, not a fix. They can only potentially help smooth the way somewhat as you work in other ways to address the issues in life you face.

I realise this has turned into a general take on their use rather than a direct reply to you specifically, KJ, but I hope it's of some use to you. All the best with everything.
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #8239 on: November 25, 2023, 02:38:38 pm »
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.