Topic: Champions League Quarter Finals 2nd Leg - Tuesday & Wednesday

[donr]

can't understand the penalty doubts, looks like a clear foul to me, Puyol isn't standing beside Fabregas he runs into the back of him, doesn't get near the ball

http://www.tvgolo.com/football.php?subaction=showfull&id=1270065770&archive=&start_from=&ucat=50&

[Una cerveza, por favor]

Arsenal have no chance now. They needed to take a lead to the Nou Camp, now they'll have to come out and attack Barca and will just get destroyed.

I wouldn't say that. My money is on Arsenal to qualify.

the teams were clearly not equals, but a draw was certainly deserved.  for everything Barca threw at Arsenal in the first twenty minutes they didn't score because they were profligate in front of goal and anything on target was matched by Almunia.  Walcott's shot should never have beaten their keeper, but it did.  the game was reffed fairly, it was clearly a penalty.  ergo, 2-2 was a fair result.

The refereeing wasn't good. It wasn't a penalty and if it was then there was a worse foul on Messi first half. IMO, both Fabregas and Puyol should be eligible for the second leg because their cards were shocking. The only reason Barca weren't 5 up at half-time was Ibrahimovic. But I agree, if you don't take your chances..

who will come in to replace Pique and Puyol? surely Barca will be weakened in defence.

Yaya Toure singlehandedly shut out Drogba last year and I think he will be good enough for them.

[Brian Blessed]

Where is that arshavin bloke? He said he'd be on here right after the game?

I fully expect 'dog ate my homework'excuses from him tomorrow.

[Chakan]

can't understand the penalty doubts, looks like a clear foul to me, Puyol isn't standing beside Fabregas he runs into the back of him, doesn't get near the ball

http://www.tvgolo.com/football.php?subaction=showfull&id=1270065770&archive=&start_from=&ucat=50&

huh? Fab tries to kick the ball and ends up kicking puyol instead, ref then gives a penalty and sends off puyol for getting in his way?

[Olives]

The refereeing wasn't good. It wasn't a penalty and if it was then there was a worse foul on Messi first half. IMO, both Fabregas and Puyol should be eligible for the second leg because their cards were shocking.

huh? I don't understand how there could be any doubt about it, I thought it was a clear penalty - and therefore a red. I'll give you that Fabregas's yellow was harsh even if he didn't get the ball.

[Red Viper]

No Fabregas, No Gallas, Bendtner up front.

No chance.

[Frank.]

Gooner, what did you make of the red card?

[donr]

But Puyol is behind him so the onus is on him to make sure there's no contact, just like a player chasing another is always penalised for clipping the heels of a player in front although there may be no intent

[Livid]

Arsenal have no chance now. They needed to take a lead to the Nou Camp, now they'll have to come out and attack Barca and will just get destroyed.

Funny thing is, Atletico do well against Barcelona because they attack them mercilessly and let their rather shit defence deal with the consequences.  Seems to result in goals for them.

[afcgooner]

Gooner, what did you make of the red card?

Well he give the penalty and Puyol looked like the last man, so he had to send him off i suppose, even if the penalty is a bit dodgy. But the ref was always going to give it. That whole end went mad when Fabregas was brought down. Peer pressure as such.

[Red Viper]

Funny thing is, Atletico do well against Barcelona because they attack them mercilessly and let their rather shit defence deal with the consequences.  Seems to result in goals for them.

Barca having a shit defence is a myth. It's such an underrated part of their team.

[stoa]

Just watching Barca tonight, they deserve to win the Champions League above any other team left in it.

It would be a massive injustice if they don't make it to the semi's.

Why? Granted they created a shitload of chances, but missed one after the other. After that they took the lead, but somehow managed to hand over the game to Arsenal only for them to score the equalizer. I don't care if it was a penalty or a sending off. The point is, Barca didn't do enough to win that game and therefore, I don't see any reason why they'd be more deserving winners than anyone else. Just playing pretty football means fuck all, if it's as ineffective as it was today. If Barca don't reach the semis or don't win the competition it's their own, it will be because despite playing pretty good football most of the time, they somehow managed to lose over two legs or in the final.

[Livid]

Barca having a shit defence is a myth. It's such an underrated part of their team.

You understood my post the wrong way round. I meant Atletico attack Barca and leave their shit defence to deal with Messi and co. Seems to work for them in an odd way.
I said the same as you a couple of pages back on Barca's defence.

[Phil M]

It's very rarely you see CL red card decisions overturned, I can't recall it happening in recent times so i fully expect Puyol
to miss the next leg.
Without Fabregas driving them on I can't see Arsenal scoring twice at the Nou Camp which I think they will need to do to win
the tie as their defence won't keep Messi and co out away from home.

[afcgooner]

Why? Granted they created a shitload of chances, but missed one after the other. After that they took the lead, but somehow managed to hand over the game to Arsenal only for them to score the equalizer. I don't care if it was a penalty or a sending off. The point is, Barca didn't do enough to win that game and therefore, I don't see any reason why they'd be more deserving winners than anyone else. Just playing pretty football means fuck all, if it's as ineffective as it was today. If Barca don't reach the semis or don't win the competition it's their own, it will be because despite playing pretty good football most of the time, they somehow managed to lose over two legs or in the final.

It wasn't ineffective. They had 70% of the ball at the Emirates, they created point blank chances. They just didn't take many of those chances. Torres would of buried that tie. People see Zlatans goal and think he played well but he really didn't. A world class striker could of had a hatrick in this match.

Arsenal were naive tactics wise. In order to beat a team like Barcelona, you need to remain tight down the middle and defend the space in behind. We allowed runners to run into dangerous positions, therefor really struggling to keep them out.

One of our real struggles in the last few years, we need to press in the midfield more and get in and about teams.

[StevenLFC]

Arsenal's main problem was that they didn't press as a unit. One player would press, but the rest stood still so Barcelona always had space to pass into. at 0-2 and 1-2 Arsenal were dead and buried but now they have a small chance.

[mildale]

Just seen the penalty incident again, don't think it was a penalty. He was standing there and Fabregas' leg swung back to take the shot and they collided with each other, not a penalty in my book.

[Olives]

Just seen the penalty incident again, don't think it was a penalty. He was standing there and Fabregas' leg swung back to take the shot and they collided with each other, not a penalty in my book.

it doesn't have to be deliberate to make it a pen, he clearly impeded Fabregas.  whether it was an accident or not is irrelevant.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

As much as I enjoy winding up AFCgooner I wouldn't right arsenal off just yet. They're more than capable of going to Barca and knocking in a couple on a good day. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be 4-4 on agg after the next 90 mins.

But still, come on Barca

[Chakan]

it doesn't have to be deliberate to make it a pen, he clearly impeded Fabregas.  whether it was an accident or not is irrelevant.

So if someone kicks the ball from 2 yards away and it hits the guys hand inside the box it's a penalty regardless if he could get out of the way of it or not?

[Olives]

So if someone kicks the ball from 2 yards away and it hits the guys hand inside the box it's a penalty regardless if he could get out of the way of it or not?

no, because there has to be intent for it to be a deliberate handball and therefore a foul.

[Chakan]

no, because there has to be intent for it to be a deliberate handball and therefore a foul.

explain to me how fabregas kicking puyol is intent ? His foot was inbetween puyols legs!

[Olives]

explain to me how fabregas kicking puyol is intent ? His foot was inbetween puyols legs!

you misunderstand.  for it to be a foul when the ball touches someone's hand, there has to be intent - or else that their hand should not be there.  there does not have to be intent if you impede someone or trip them up, that is a foul accident or not

[Chakan]

we'll agree to disagree then, it's the softest penalty/red card decision I have seen for a very very long time. Fab kicks puyol and gets a penalty and puyol gets sent off.... nuts

http://www.footylounge.com/films//arsenal-barcelona-highlights/cesc-fabregas-2-2-video_423246bc9.html

[LFC when it suits]

Barca are by far the better team, but I can see Arsenal getting a high scoring draw at the camp nou.

[LIVusa34]

For the people saying Fabregas 'kicked' Puyol...

Fabregas pulls his leg back to shoot, Puyol moves his right leg into the area where Fabregas' leg would swing and impedes the shot. Puyol doesn't play the ball but makes contact with Fabregas. It might not have been deliberate but it prevented a shot and was clumsy

It will be interesting to see how Barca line up at the Nou Camp. Pique and Puyol are so important because their pace allows the midfield to push up and swarm the ball. Somebody like Busquets may have to sit a bit deeper to provide coverage for the center backs. Arsenal desperately need Arshavin to be available - Fabregas and Gallas out will be tough enough.

[Chakan]

For the people saying Fabregas 'kicked' Puyol...

Fabregas pulls his leg back to shoot, Puyol moves his right leg into the area where Fabregas' leg would swing and impedes the shot. Puyol doesn't play the ball but makes contact with Fabregas. It might not have been deliberate but it prevented a shot and was clumsy

doesn't look like that to me on the video.... but not gonna argue about it... different interpretations of what happened.
Soft penalty anyway you look at it

[Juan Loco]

Arsenal are going to feel like Jodie Foster in The Accused after 90 minutes in the Nou Camp, don't anyone kid themselves. I don't think Barcelona have won a knockout game away from the Camp Nou for a couple of years, they're just in the habit of putting four goals past teams at the Camp Nou. Stuttgart, Lyon, Bayern - It's not the worst company Arsenal will ever keep.

A shame that "rousing comeback" will get in the way of Wenger having to be called up on some shit. He showed his tactical naiveity, his myopia and his misplaced pride in his own team in a huge way tonight and got let off on it. For a team that prides its self on the quality of its football they must have felt like tits after that first half. If ever there was a more perfect illustration of how it's meant to be done and how Arsenal actually do it it was tonight. ... But they got a flukey draw. It won't save them.

[WelshMike]

For little of what Arsenal did when they had the ball, when they went forward, they could of scored 3+ goals and that was with very little of the ball.

Yeah but if you're counting every single chance then by the same token Barcelona could've stuck 14 in your net.

In the first 20 minutes.

[rafathegaffa83]

Just seen the penalty incident again, don't think it was a penalty. He was standing there and Fabregas' leg swung back to take the shot and they collided with each other, not a penalty in my book.

That's the way I saw it. Fabregas swung and end up catching his foot in between Puyol's legs. A complete accident that wouldn't have been worthy of even a yellow. A poor decision.

[Xxavi]

This has to be one of the most one-sided performances Barca had this season. Barca would struggle in English League?

Unless referees are as clueless as today, Barca would be fine anywhere.

So proud of the team. I was cursing Ibra at half time. How the fuck did he miss those chances?! But then, he scored 2 difficult goals and was generally good. Messi on the other hand, disappointed me a lot. Absolutely non-factor, disgraceful performance from the best player in the world. Was hiding from the ball all match long, walking, not running. He should have been replaced, not Ibra.

And Henry, I know he is an Arsenal legend and all, but he is done. Bojan should play ahead of him every time.

Match was very enjoyable and I predicted 8-3 overall scoreline over two legs. Well, we could have had that scoreline tonight. Shame it didn't happen, but proud of boys. There was a real, authentic, original passing team (Barca), and there were pretenders (Arsenal). Shame we will miss three world class players in the second leg - Iniesta, Puyol and Pique, but if we attack non-stop as we did tonight, we won't have to worry much. Milito and Toure combo should be fine.

EDIT: Adding a quote from redcafe by a user named

If Barcelona are a Ferrari, Arsenal are the guy who wears the Ferrari baseball cap, the jacket, and has the key-ring, but doesn't actually own a Ferrari.

Best quote of the night

[Xxavi]

It was just like 2-6 performance against Madrid last season. Only we didn't finish even a fraction of our chances. Wow, hopefully it doesn't haunt us back in the second leg.

And this match also showed why I want Xavi to win the Golden Ball. He has not the abilities of Messi or Ronaldo, but what he does, he does better than anybody in the world, and so consistently, that this guy deserves it. Today, he shat on Cesc in particular and Arsenal midfield in general. That's why Cesc doesn't and shouldn't start for Spain.

[TheRedBull]

You understood my post the wrong way round. I meant Atletico attack Barca and leave their shit defence to deal with Messi and co. Seems to work for them in an odd way.
I said the same as you a couple of pages back on Barca's defence.

Barca were left with a back four of  Jeffren Suárez (play in an unfamiliar role at right-back), Gabriel Milito and Carles Puyol in the centre of defence and Maxwell the left. and so it is understandable that their defense was shit that night...

[afcgooner]

It was just like 2-6 performance against Madrid last season. Only we didn't finish even a fraction of our chances. Wow, hopefully it doesn't haunt us back in the second leg.

And this match also showed why I want Xavi to win the Golden Ball. He has not the abilities of Messi or Ronaldo, but what he does, he does better than anybody in the world, and so consistently, that this guy deserves it. Today, he shat on Cesc in particular and Arsenal midfield in general. That's why Cesc doesn't and shouldn't start for Spain.

I thought Fabregas did well considering he was struggling for most of the game and did score a penalty. The team didn't have a lot of the ball and Fabregas did OK when he had it, even if it was little.

[Brian Blessed]

Never a penalty. Arsenal were absolute dogshit and got a couple of gifts.

[Xxavi]

I thought Fabregas did well considering he was struggling for most of the game and did score a penalty. The team didn't have a lot of the ball and Fabregas did OK when he had it, even if it was little.

I am not going to blame Cesc solely for the fact that Arsenal had to play 30% of time with the ball in the first half. And I am not going to say that Xavi is the only reason why Barca had the ball 70% of time. But Xavi clearly is a better passer in tight areas. It is just very difficult to get the ball off him.

If Iniesta was playing instead of Keita, who was pretty much invisible I thought, we would have won the game, IMHO. May be with a 2-3 goal margin. Iniesta would have made sure that we don't lose the ball as easily as we started losing after 70-75th minute.

Anyway, what did you think of Busquets. He still did not make a name for himself, but he is improving every day. I thought he was one of the best in Barca shirt and much better than any Arsenal midfielder.

Its a shame we didn't have a fit Abidal. I feared of Walcott vs Maxwell match up. I don't rate Walcott, but he has pace, and Maxwell has no pace, and he is very poor defensively. I don't think Abidal would have let the first goal happen. Well, we still played well missing two first team players in Abidal and Iniesta. Next week, we will miss at least 3 first team players.

[Purple Gorilla]

valdes could have settled the tie there and then tonight if he would of saved walcotts shot, which he should have.

I thought Fabregas did well considering he was struggling for most of the game and did score a penalty. The team didn't have a lot of the ball and Fabregas did OK when he had it, even if it was little.

i thought Fabregas done ok meself considerin he must of only been about 70% fit

[Xxavi]

valdes could have settled the tie there and then tonight if he would of saved walcotts shot, which he should have.

i thought Fabregas done ok meself considerin he must of only been about 70% fit

But Xavi was returning from an injury, too.

Despite the fact that both leaders were coming back from injury, they covered most distances each in his own team.

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/matches/season=2010/live/index.html?matchday=9&day=2

There, look at passing statistics We had about twice more passes that "passing" team that is Arsenal in their home turf :cool
Xavi had more passes than 3-4 Arsenal players combined. What a legend. Give the Golden Ball to this guy.

[Purple Gorilla]

But Xavi was returning from an injury, too.

I don't understand what thats got to do with my comment?? I was talking about Fabregas game, if you want me to talk about xavi's performance i will....... i thought he was man of the match in the game tonight. kept the ball with ease and picked out his passes as usual, the thing that makes him the best center mid in the world is that he can dictate the tempo of any match in the world but the most important thing is that he picks out the right pass at the right time, every time. busquets is a big help to xavi as he does alot of the donkey work for him but even then xavi is very good at pressing the play.

[afcgooner]

But Xavi was returning from an injury, too.

Despite the fact that both leaders were coming back from injury, they covered most distances each in his own team.

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/matches/season=2010/live/index.html?matchday=9&day=2

There, look at passing statistics We had about twice more passes that "passing" team that is Arsenal in their home turf :cool
Xavi had more passes than 3-4 Arsenal players combined. What a legend. Give the Golden Ball to this guy.

Well you did have 70% of the ball. The Barcelona system is what helps you keep the ball. Everyone shows for it and you have been playing in this system for many years now.

Every Barcelona midfielder on the pitch was better than an Arsenal midfielder because the Barcelona midfielders had all the ball. We coulnd't get the ball to launch attack after attack. It kind of became a pick your moments type of game in the last 20 minutes.