Topic: Lionel Messi

[KloppCorn]

Then fucking think before you post utter nonsense. It's tiresomely stupid.

alright I will do from today onwards. Let’s be friends it’s Christmas 

[carling]

Can anyone who was watching Messi play week in week out during his prime (say 2012 - 2014) and thinks there was someone better please let me know what you've seen to reach that conclusion.  I've digested all the footage I can from previous greats and can't find anything close to the dribbling, shooting, passing and just overall play that Messi was consistently outputting over the 90 minutes during those years.

[GinKop]

Can anyone who was watching Messi play week in week out during his prime (say 2012 - 2014) and thinks there was someone better please let me know what you've seen to reach that conclusion.  I've digested all the footage I can from previous greats and can't find anything close to the dribbling, shooting, passing and just overall play that Messi was consistently outputting over the 90 minutes during those years.

Absolutely with you on this. Since he made his debut, and thanks to the Spanish football on Sky Sports, I watched pretty much most of the Barca games and he was untouchable at the time.

For all the shouts of what Maradona and Pele had to put up with from defenders flying in with tackles, I bet Messi would have absolutely loved that.

Someone with his football brain and the brute defenders are going to slide in on you and commit themselves. He would have left them on their arse.

I love Maradona but I think Messi is ahead in the GOAT discussion.

[Red-Soldier]

Can anyone who was watching Messi play week in week out during his prime (say 2012 - 2014) and thinks there was someone better please let me know what you've seen to reach that conclusion.  I've digested all the footage I can from previous greats and can't find anything close to the dribbling, shooting, passing and just overall play that Messi was consistently outputting over the 90 minutes during those years.

It's hard to compare players across different generations, as not all things are the same.

For example, the modern football is totally different to the ones they played with back then.

Pele is still the greatest though.  Look at the records.

[Knight]

It is fitting that a tax dodging, Saudi loving, midget lab rat won the World Cup that was hosted in Qatar.

The below often feels appropriate on the internet. This post is no exception.

“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

[Andy82lfc]

Absolutely with you on this. Since he made his debut, and thanks to the Spanish football on Sky Sports, I watched pretty much most of the Barca games and he was untouchable at the time.

For all the shouts of what Maradona and Pele had to put up with from defenders flying in with tackles, I bet Messi would have absolutely loved that.

Someone with his football brain and the brute defenders are going to slide in on you and commit themselves. He would have left them on their arse.

I love Maradona but I think Messi is ahead in the GOAT discussion.

I don't mind the Messi - Pele debate, as tiressome as it can be, but the Maradona shouts basically considering him the second best are just so wide of the mark it's really baffling. Maybe it's just comparing them as Argentinians? I don't know.

Pele was in all order, apart from dribbling, by far the most superior footballer to Maradona, not to even consider how consistent he was over decades not just some years. I mean even the Argentina world cup winning coach agrees that Pele was the better player for fucks sake. If people still want to elevate Maradona beyond that then I've no idea what direction they are coming from to get there.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Mannnn that's so deep. You're right, we're all tax dodging tyranny lovers deep down. I know I am.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

He’s the greatest for me. His longevity is staggering. To be at such a high level for so long is extraordinary. He’s slowed down a little but his balance and acceleration are still incredible. He’s still leaving players on their arse. Ronaldo hasn’t really gone past players for years now.

Some of his passing in the final was amazing.  He’s just absolutely brilliant.

[NaivetyinBlack]

He was by far the best player in the WC, at 35 years of age.

No one can match his longevity, especially not Maradona.

[Red-Soldier]

He was by far the best player in the WC, at 35 years of age.

No one can match his longevity, especially not Maradona.

Have you heard of this fella called Pele....?

Edson Arantes do Nascimento (Brazilian Portuguese: [ˈɛtsõ(w) ɐˈɾɐ̃tʃiz du nɐsiˈmẽtu]; born 23 October 1940), known as Pelé (Portuguese pronunciation: [peˈlɛ]), is a Brazilian former professional footballer who played as a forward. Regarded as one of the greatest players of all time and labelled "the greatest" by FIFA,[1] he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century. In 1999, he was named Athlete of the Century by the International Olympic Committee and was included in the Time list of the 100 most important people of the 20th century. In 2000, Pelé was voted World Player of the Century by the International Federation of Football History & Statistics (IFFHS) and was one of the two joint winners of the FIFA Player of the Century. His 1,279 goals in 1,363 games, which includes friendlies, is recognised as a Guinness World Record.[2]

Among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century,[113] Pelé is one of the most lauded players in the history of football and has been frequently ranked the best player ever.[1][114][115][116] Following his emergence at the 1958 World Cup he was nicknamed O Rei ("The King").[117] Among his contemporaries, Dutch star Johan Cruyff stated, "Pelé was the only footballer who surpassed the boundaries of logic."[27] Brazil's 1970 World Cup-winning captain Carlos Alberto Torres opined: "His great secret was improvisation. Those things he did were in one moment. He had an extraordinary perception of the game."[27] According to Tostão, his strike partner at the 1970 World Cup: "Pelé was the greatest – he was simply flawless. And off the pitch he is always smiling and upbeat. You never see him bad-tempered. He loves being Pelé."[27] His Brazilian teammate Clodoaldo commented on the adulation he witnessed: "In some countries they wanted to touch him, in some they wanted to kiss him. In others they even kissed the ground he walked on. I thought it was beautiful, just beautiful."[27] According to Franz Beckenbauer, West Germany's 1974 World Cup-winning captain: Pelé is the greatest player of all time. He reigned supreme for 20 years. There's no one to compare with him."[64]

Former Real Madrid and Hungary star Ferenc Puskás stated: "The greatest player in history was Di Stéfano. I refuse to classify Pelé as a player. He was above that."[27] Just Fontaine, French striker and leading scorer at the 1958 World Cup said "When I saw Pelé play, it made me feel I should hang up my boots."[27] England's 1966 FIFA World Cup-winning captain Bobby Moore commented: "Pelé was the most complete player I've ever seen, he had everything. Two good feet. Magic in the air. Quick. Powerful. Could beat people with skill. Could outrun people. Only five feet and eight inches tall, yet he seemed a giant of an athlete on the pitch. Perfect balance and impossible vision. He was the greatest because he could do anything and everything on a football pitch. I remember Saldanha the coach being asked by a Brazilian journalist who was the best goalkeeper in his squad. He said Pelé. The man could play in any position".[95] Former Manchester United striker and member of England's 1966 FIFA World Cup-winning team Sir Bobby Charlton stated, "I sometimes feel as though football was invented for this magical player."[27] During the 1970 World Cup, when Manchester United defender Paddy Crerand (who was part of the ITV panel) was asked, "How do you spell Pelé?", he replied, "Easy: G-O-D."[27]
Accolades
1969 Brazil postage stamp commemorating Pelé's landmark 1,000th goal

Since retiring, Pelé has continued to be lauded by players, coaches, journalists and others. Brazilian attacking midfielder Zico, who represented Brazil at the 1978, 1982 and 1986 FIFA World Cup, stated: "This debate about the player of the century is absurd. There's only one possible answer: Pelé. He's the greatest player of all time, and by some distance I might add".[64] French three-time Ballon d'Or winner Michel Platini said: "There's Pelé the man, and then Pelé the player. And to play like Pelé is to play like God."[118] Diego Maradona, joint FIFA Player of the Century, and the player Pelé is historically compared with, stated, "It's too bad we never got along, but he was an awesome player".[64] Prolific Brazilian striker Romário, winner of the 1994 FIFA World Cup and player of the tournament, remarked: "It's only inevitable I look up to Pelé. He's like a God to us".[64] Five-time FIFA Ballon d'Or winner Cristiano Ronaldo said, "Pelé is the greatest player in football history, and there will only be one Pelé", while José Mourinho, two-time UEFA Champions League winning manager, commented: "I think he is football. You have the real special one – Mr. Pelé."[119] Real Madrid honorary president and former player, Alfredo Di Stéfano, opined: "The best player ever? Pelé. Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pelé was better".[120]

Mesi is the best of his generation.

[Knight]

Mannnn that's so deep. You're right, we're all tax dodging tyranny lovers deep down. I know I am.

... you know what he loves? Impressive.

[Son of Spion]

Sorry mate but you can get to fuck with that remark. You may not give a shit about homophobia and the treatment of migrant workers in Qatar but many do. I  gave up my boycott for the last few games and I'm glad I saw that final but I feel dirty for doing so and I admire the people I know who stuck it out to the end.

I have to agree. It was a twat of a post.

Apart from seeing Sir Harold blast a penalty over the bar on the news I never watched a single second of the entire shit show. I don't regret it for a moment either. This World Cup was built on corruption, mass exploitation, the abandonment of human rights and the abandonment of principles for cash. The fact the football might have been decent means nothing to me in that context.

I find it highly distasteful when some who chose to watch it then have the gall to insult those who made a personal stand against it. Watch if you want. It's your choice. But fuck right off with insulting those who stood by their principles and gave it a miss.

I couldn't give a crap if the football was decent and if the final was one of the best ever. Some things are far, far more important to me than that.

[-Willo-]

Mannnn that's so deep. You're right, we're all tax dodging tyranny lovers deep down. I know I am.

I think you're over estimating how much input a guy like Messi has over the finances of himself, which is essentially a billion pound asset. I doubt he even knows how much tax he pays a year, he has companies of people working for him.

Does it make it right? Obviously not. But it doesn't make you right either IMO.

[lionel_messias]

Don't know what it is about Messi that has always rubbed me the wrong way. He is obviously supremely talented, motivated and efficient. Perhaps it's the carefully cultivated aura of humbleness that seems to be just a paper-thin veneer, or the fact that even at his most breathtaking I never though he had that 'something', that spark of artistic genius you could see dripping from the likes of Ronaldinho. I'm not sure - but for some reason, I always, which is probably a heresy to say, found him boring.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


No.

Not really having that. Given that football is about passing the sphere, shooting it and dribbling it past other players, I don't see how you can have been watching Messi and thought, "Yeah, that's boring." Because if that is boring, it can't be the sport for you?

Even if you think he's a twat based on his tax affairs etc etc, he's a certified genius on the pitch. Unless you prefer long balls up to a big striker I suppose.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

He's the best player I've ever seen, for sure. Maradona had maybe a short spell at a similar level,  but Messi was supreme for years. And if watching him slalom through defences and make fools out of keepers is boring, well, I don't know what to say!

[AndyMuller]

The below often feels appropriate on the internet. This post is no exception.

“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Ouch you got me.

[jillcwhomever]

Absolutely with you on this. Since he made his debut, and thanks to the Spanish football on Sky Sports, I watched pretty much most of the Barca games and he was untouchable at the time.

For all the shouts of what Maradona and Pele had to put up with from defenders flying in with tackles, I bet Messi would have absolutely loved that.

Someone with his football brain and the brute defenders are going to slide in on you and commit themselves. He would have left them on their arse.

I love Maradona but I think Messi is ahead in the GOAT discussion.

Pele did leave the big brutes on their arses though, in a time when players had far less protection than what they do nowadays. His incredible control would get him out of all sorts of near assaults from those who just flew in at him. This is the problem with comparing players of different eras the way football was played was completely different.

[paulrazor]

Pele did leave the big brutes on their arses though, in a time when players had far less protection than what they do nowadays. His incredible control would get him out of all sorts of near assaults from those who just flew in at him. This is the problem with comparing players of different eras the way football was played was completely different.

Think the 1970 final I am fairly sure he was punched in the face, ref didnt even book the other player.

Different era obviously, Messi was the greatest I have seen and last night cemented it.

[BER]

Absolutely with you on this. Since he made his debut, and thanks to the Spanish football on Sky Sports, I watched pretty much most of the Barca games and he was untouchable at the time.

For all the shouts of what Maradona and Pele had to put up with from defenders flying in with tackles, I bet Messi would have absolutely loved that.

Someone with his football brain and the brute defenders are going to slide in on you and commit themselves. He would have left them on their arse.

I love Maradona but I think Messi is ahead in the GOAT discussion.

Even after his ankle has been shattered in three places? Plus he'd be like a foot shorter without all the growth hormones.

[Iska]

He's the best player I've ever seen, for sure. Maradona had maybe a short spell at a similar level,  but Messi was supreme for years. And if watching him slalom through defences and make fools out of keepers is boring, well, I don't know what to say!

What was boring about it was that he came into the best team, under the best manager, and played with the best players the whole time.  Winning the World Cup is a totally different and more interesting challenge, and for me he’s really elevated himself this past month, the idea of struggling against the odds, the thrilling high-wire act, was just never there for me before.

[Elzar]

Absolutely loved watching Messi play in his prime years, and he still produces brilliant brilliant moments now (and has had a brilliant tournament). However, I'm beginning to hate seeing his name appear anywhere as it's followed by tedious debate of people talking about who is the best of all time, as if there is a definitive answer.

It's like a long discussion on which toast spread is the best. Some people prefer strawberry jam, some prefer marmalade, some prefer peanut butter, where as bland people will just they don't want anything on their toast and they prefer Cristiano Ronaldo.

[Black Bull Nova]

I don't mind the Messi - Pele debate, as tiressome as it can be, but the Maradona shouts basically considering him the second best are just so wide of the mark it's really baffling. Maybe it's just comparing them as Argentinians? I don't know.

Pele was in all order, apart from dribbling, by far the most superior footballer to Maradona, not to even consider how consistent he was over decades not just some years. I mean even the Argentina world cup winning coach agrees that Pele was the better player for fucks sake. If people still want to elevate Maradona beyond that then I've no idea what direction they are coming from to get there.

Yes, just look at how a 17 year old won a world cup and then had a career to match.


Just think if Owen had scored that goal, then went on to score a hat trick in the semis in 20 minutes and then 2 goals in the final to win the cup. And then, went on to win two more WCs (not forgetting Pele's extrordinary performance throughout the 1970 WC). Plus 7 Ballon D'Ors, 775 goals and numerous other stuff. That despite being a bit of a bastard in personal relationships and the face of erectile disfunction.


Oh, and hasn't Cristiano had a bad month, what a shame

[NaivetyinBlack]

Good stuff by Tim Vickery

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfqrp2P3h_o

[keyop]

It is fitting that a tax dodging, Saudi loving, midget lab rat won the World Cup that was hosted in Qatar.

That's pretty grim considering he had problems as a child and needed a growth hormone for years (funded by Barca to help his development).

Tax fraud and PSG are valid criticisms. But as someone who works in the NHS, you can get to fuck with any references to a player's medical or genetic issues that are beyond their control.

[carling]

It's hard to compare players across different generations, as not all things are the same.

For example, the modern football is totally different to the ones they played with back then.

Pele is still the greatest though.  Look at the records.

I guess this is the point, you can say Pele is the greatest just by looking at his records and his story.  Same for Maradona.

But for just sheer ability and mastery of the football I can't find anything near Messi's highest level.  Someone who weights each pass like he does, or who can operate with such little time and space and at such speed.  Pele was a genius ahead of his time but he wasn't working with centimetres of space or at the lightning pace of Messi.

You couldn't even follow the sheer amount of touches he used to take when dribbling and at the end of it you couldn't tell where the shot or pass was going until it hit the target or the player.  There can't have been anything like it since and I'm not sure when there will be.

[JackWard33]

I guess this is the point, you can say Pele is the greatest just by looking at his records and his story.  Same for Maradona.

But for just sheer ability and mastery of the football I can't find anything near Messi's highest level.  Someone who weights each pass like he does, or who can operate with such little time and space and at such speed.  Pele was a genius ahead of his time but he wasn't working with centimetres of space or at the lightning pace of Messi.

You couldn't even follow the sheer amount of touches he used to take when dribbling and at the end of it you couldn't tell where the shot or pass was going until it hit the target or the player.  There can't have been anything like it since and I'm not sure when there will be.

Yup that's the thing.. he's one of the greatest goal scorers of all time WHILE being probably the best attacking passer of all time

[AndyMuller]

That's pretty grim considering he had problems as a child and needed a growth hormone for years (funded by Barca to help his development).

Tax fraud and PSG are valid criticisms. But as someone who works in the NHS, you can get to fuck with any references to a player's medical or genetic issues that are beyond their control.

Fucking hell did he get it done through the NHS did he yeah? Fuck off lad.

[carling]

Yup that's the thing.. he's one of the greatest goal scorers of all time WHILE being probably the best attacking passer of all time

Yeah it's probably his passing that puts him clearly out of reach of any other player.  I remember at one point it felt like you could make a compilation of his best-weighted passes from one game and it might look like a season's worth from anyone else.


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/B153SMxlHjs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/B153SMxlHjs</a>

[Lone Star Red]

Saying there's been a better player than Messi sometimes just comes across as being a contrarian for contrarian's sake. I know some do feel passionate about Pele (or somehow, even Maradona) being better.

But the man just ran the show at 35, playing in all but 23 minutes of this World Cup. Doubt we'll ever see one like him again and he is and has been the best of all time, for me. The World Cup is just the cherry on top of his absolutely mind-boggling career.

[keyop]

Fucking hell did he get it done through the NHS did he yeah? Fuck off lad.

No - he self-administered the drugs from age 11, injecting himself daily using drugs his parents could barely afford (until he signed for Barca). Compare that to Maradona who was snorting coke and high on opioids (often during games), and you'll see why Messi is held in much higher esteem by some.

If anything, Messi's success despite the physical barriers is something to be celebrated - not used as a vile comment against him. He was only 4 foot 4 when he was diagnosed at the age of 11, and hadn't grown for 2 years. He had to make the most of his genetics, so from a very young age he learned to beat players through skill and guile rather than strength.

It's pretty grim and distasteful to have a dig at someone's genetic condition. Your post was like something you see on a Twitter cesspit.

[AndyMuller]

No - he self-administered the drugs from age 11, injecting himself daily using drugs his parents could barely afford (until he signed for Barca). Compare that to Maradona who was snorting coke and high on opioids (often during games), and you'll see why Messi is held in much higher esteem by some.

If anything, Messi's success despite the physical barriers is something to be celebrated - not used as a vile comment against him. He was only 4 foot 4 when he was diagnosed at the age of 11, and hadn't grown for 2 years. He had to make the most of his genetics, so from a very young age he learned to beat players through skill and guile rather than strength.

It's pretty grim and distasteful to have a dig at someone's genetic condition. Your post was like something you see on a Twitter cesspit.

Oh well.

[Ashburton]

Saying there's been a better player than Messi sometimes just comes across as being a contrarian for contrarian's sake. I know some do feel passionate about Pele (or somehow, even Maradona) being better.

But the man just ran the show at 35, playing in all but 23 minutes of this World Cup. Doubt we'll ever see one like him again and he is and has been the best of all time, for me. The World Cup is just the cherry on top of his absolutely mind-boggling career.

Generally this is the take identified with most.  Was there a better player? Maybe, but if there was I haven't seen him play.  The thing with Messi is you get the whole package, unreal football intelligence and mental ability to read the game, top tier balance and dribbling, and the whole set of finishes, tricks and most of all he does it all just so effectively.  You often saw stuff from Ronadinho or Neymar and it was hard to think anything but damn that was incredible, but it did very little to the actual situation in the game... whereas with Messi it's almost always about progressing up the pitch, dropping a shoulder to get past someone to play a killer ball.. etc.  He just seems to use those moments at another level to most of the uber-skillful forwards you see over the years.

Ronaldo was the same during his time in Madrid, all the energy expense seemed to be effective, direct and ... typically profitable in terms of goals, the difference with Messi is he was able to drop to more of an orthodox 10 as he aged and stamina and burst of speed left him - and start contributing with elite level vision and technique, too.

Maybe it's an age thing but there's something about this which feels very 'closing chapter', maybe it is because I remember him bursting through with that goal against Getafe back when seeing La Liga games was difficult and highlights were harder to come by.. not just bursting through but solidifying himself as an absolutely elite level player but also very team focused.  Seeing him take teams apart in the CL was a pleasure (well, when it wasn't us..) and despite him seemingly not doing much for most of the game whilst Pep's All-Time-Great midfield of Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets ran the show and suffocated the opposition.. .. you always knew Messi could easily end up with a few moments of brilliance to give himself yet another brace with effortless composure.

At this point he perhaps has a few more seasons at PSG on a ridiculous contract, maybe a trip back to Barca? Who knows.  It would be poetic if he was able to go back to his old team Newell and win the Argentinian league and go full circle entirely.  Truly remarkable for a guy who was almost too poor and small to even get in a decent level club team, to winning (potentially 8?) Ballon d'Ors and a World Cup.

[JP!]

Everyone always thinks the best player from their era is one of if not the best of all time.

Not quite sure why Messi provokes such foaming-at-the-mouth anger from some in this thread?  Secret Ronaldo lovers or something?

[Red-Soldier]

I guess this is the point, you can say Pele is the greatest just by looking at his records and his story.  Same for Maradona.

But for just sheer ability and mastery of the football I can't find anything near Messi's highest level.  Someone who weights each pass like he does, or who can operate with such little time and space and at such speed.  Pele was a genius ahead of his time but he wasn't working with centimetres of space or at the lightning pace of Messi.

You couldn't even follow the sheer amount of touches he used to take when dribbling and at the end of it you couldn't tell where the shot or pass was going until it hit the target or the player.  There can't have been anything like it since and I'm not sure when there will be.

How many times have you watched Pele vs How many times have you watched Messi?

People generally show a bias towards familiarity. 

All of Pele's peers (the best players to have ever played the game) say he was the greatest, plus his record is beyond comparison.  He could do absolutely anything with a football, a football that was hard as nails and weighed an absolute ton, compared to the modern balls.

[keyop]

He could do absolutely anything with a football, a football that was hard as nails and weighed an absolute ton, compared to the modern balls.

This is often used as a measure for comparison, but you could equally say that the standard of opposition and number of elite players was far lower in the 50's and 60's, compared to the last 2 decades in which Messi has played. Messi is simply a great player due to his ability - not because the balls are lighter or the pitches are better.

I guess we'll never know, as there are simply too many variables. It's the same argument with most sports - like Formula One cars (or tracks), running shoes, golf clubs/courses, tennis rackets, and the many other sporting aspects that have changed massively over the last 50 years due to new technology, materials, nutrition, sports science, and psychology.

Personally I grew up with Maradona and then Messi, and for me Messi is the better player - simply due to his extraordinary consistency and output across 17 seasons, and his ability to play about 4 or 5 positions at elite level. As Groove so neatly put it - 'A playmaking number 10 on a par with Maradona, whilst also scoring at a Cristiano Ronaldo rate, and he did it for over a whole decade'.

As I said in an earlier post, it might better to simply say Pele was the best player from the late 50's to early 70's, Maradona for the 80's/90's, and Messi from 2007 to whenever he hangs up his boots (or when Mbappe takes over to restart the whole debate...).

[tubby]

Not quite sure why Messi provokes such foaming-at-the-mouth anger from some in this thread?  Secret Ronaldo lovers or something?

Think part of it is that Ronaldo gets non-stop (and justifiable) pelters for the way he carries on, but Messi seems to avoid it, despite being just as much of a bellend.

[Samie]

Argentina's World Cup-winning captain Lionel Messi has been crowned BBC Sports Personality's World Sport Star of the Year for 2022!

[4pool]

Messi's best year of scoring was 2011-12. He scored 73 goals in all comps of 60 matches with 50 goals in 37 league matches.

He then scored 60 goals in 50 matches in all comps the next season.

In the 8 seasons from when Messi scored 47 goals in 2009-10 to 2016-17, he averaged 53 matches in all comps and scored 53 goals on average for those 8 seasons.



Pele scored 60 or more in three different seasons.
1958 --66 goals in 46 matches all comps with 58 in the League in 38 matches. (It is conceivable that with 14 more matches, Pele might have bettered the 73 goals Lionel scored in 60 matches)

1961--62 goals in 38 matches all comps.

1965--64 goals in 46 matches all comps.

In those 8 years 1958-1965 Pele averaged 39 matches per season in all comps and averaged 53 goals per season.

[JackWard33]

Messi's best year of scoring was 2011-12. He scored 73 goals in all comps of 60 matches with 50 goals in 37 league matches.

He then scored 60 goals in 50 matches in all comps the next season.

In the 8 seasons from when Messi scored 47 goals in 2009-10 to 2016-17, he averaged 53 matches in all comps and scored 53 goals on average for those 8 seasons.



Pele scored 60 or more in three different seasons.
1958 --66 goals in 46 matches all comps with 58 in the League in 38 matches. (It is conceivable that with 14 more matches, Pele might have bettered the 73 goals Lionel scored in 60 matches)

1961--62 goals in 38 matches all comps.

1965--64 goals in 46 matches all comps.

In those 8 years 1958-1965 Pele averaged 39 matches per season in all comps and averaged 53 goals per season.

For Santos in the 60s .....there's just no relevance and to be honest Pele suffers by comparison because Messi's done it in the CL week in, week out against the best in the world and Pele doesn't have an equivalent

[farawayred]

It’s rather meaningless to compare Pele and Messi, as they played in very different times, very different styles. Even the stats can be biased one way or another, one being better at this, the other at that. In the end, it comes to opinions, and that’s not a basis for an argument. I’m in 4pool’s camp along with a handful of others, considering Pele the best ever. Many of the reasons have been stated already. And as it was pointed out, the current times bias opinions towards Messi simply because people have seen what he can do. That happened with the FIFA internet vote for Maradona, which was overwhelmed by youngsters activity, those never seen Pele play. And a lot of Pele’s peers didn’t know how to vote. So FIFA had to come up with another award for him. And this was Maradona, who Messi overcame.