Topic: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**

[coolbyrne]

If the Doctor had dropped dead and been replaced by a woman then fine. How would you feel about Batman being cast as a woman? Or Ironman? You're talking about different things

You're also talking about different things. You're talking about characters who are gender-identified. BatMAN. IronMAN. (I won't even get into the fact that Iron Man has been recast as a woman in the comics. By a 15-yr old black girl.) That's why there are opposites to those characters- BatWOMAN. IronWOMAN. SpiderWOMAN. WonderWOMAN. The Doctor is not gender-specified.

But, feel free to mourn the loss of your childhood and argue into the wind that 'James Bond' is a code name.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I've read and have all the books and all the films. It's a code name. The books are utterly unlike the films. I will give you the character being a character in the books. Bit not the films. Many obvious reasons the name was a code name. Plenty of articles too.

Well bugger me,that has ruined 40+ years of watching James Bond for me,ruined the whole series and all of my childhood memories,40+ Christmas memories destroyed.

So SAD.

[coolbyrne]

Well bugger me,that has ruined 40+ years of watching James Bond for me,ruined the whole series and all of my childhood memories.

So SAD.

They've SHAT on you! Shat. On. You.

[rob1966]

I don't watch Doctor Who myself (although one of my brothers is a big fan, I'm not sure what he thinks of a female Doctor) but I don't see the problem. All of the qualities of the character which differentiate them from humans are believable as part of the in-programme universe, but the Doctor being a woman isn't?

As its a Sci-Fi show, then the fact that a character could change sex is acceptable. However, the Doctor has been male for 50 odd years and there has never ever been any indication he could change gender - big clue in him being a Time Lord. You always knew the next incarnation of the doctor would be a man. If this was the 3rd or 4th doctor over say 5 years of the shows existence, then no-one would care, but they are re-writing 50 years of a show. I'm not particularly arsed what they do and it won't affect me as I'm no longer a fan of the show, since Tom Baker, the only series I've liked where the ones with David Tennant. However, I'll always see the doctor as a man, as that is how the character was written and has been played for 50 years.

I agree with Andy, if they want a strong female role model, then create one, don't steal a male role.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

You wish you hadn't bothered watching a show you've enjoyed for 50 years because of a casting decision in 2017

I do understand your argument about male role models but don't agree with it. There are plenty of positive male role models for one, and for two this casting doesn't mean that the previous incarnations of the Doctor weren't positive role models. They were male at the time, and they remain role models. That the Doctor is now played by a woman is irrelevant to that.

"If Liverpool appointed a female manager I'd stop supporting them. Shanks was a bloke, Paisley was a bloke, Kenny was a bloke. All positive role models, RUINED by our decision to appoint a bird."

Again missed the point. If a woman managed LFC I'd look forward to it - couldnt be worse than Hodgson or Souness

But this is the SAME person, not a replacement

[Andy @ Allerton!]

You're also talking about different things. You're talking about characters who are gender-identified. BatMAN. IronMAN. (I won't even get into the fact that Iron Man has been recast as a woman in the comics. By a 15-yr old black girl.) That's why there are opposites to those characters- BatWOMAN. IronWOMAN. SpiderWOMAN. WonderWOMAN. The Doctor is not gender-specified.

But, feel free to mourn the loss of your childhood and argue into the wind that 'James Bond' is a code name.

James Bond is a code name and he's a trans-species from Yuggoth

[Gerry Attrick]

People have been watching this show for 50 years. An amazing number. 50 years.. not just a few people. I'm progressive and happy with everyone getting rights and I've got good friends that are gay and also some that are women gasp!! And some of those are gay too. But I'm annoyed with this not due to women's rights or anything - women should get equal pay and equal rights ' I'm pissed cos this is my childhood they've fucked with. Tom Bakers Dr wasn't a cool dude - he was a woman really. My sister should have been watching it. I should have been out drinking and blowing things up. Male role models that are kind, decent and gentle were largely unknown before today. Now they always have been. Because it was a lie. He was never a male role model.  He was always transgender

This made me think of Donald Trump for some reason 

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I read this in Donald Drumpf's voice for some reason

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Well bugger me,that has ruined 40+ years of watching James Bond for me,ruined the whole series and all of my childhood memories,40+ Christmas memories destroyed.

So SAD.

Just wait til the next one when he appears as a bag of peanuts

[WhereAngelsPlay]

James Bond is a code name and he's a trans-species from Yuggoth

Not according to the author.

Just wait til the next one when he appears as a bag of peanuts

Honey roasted and I'll eat it up.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

This made me think of Donald Drumpf for some reason 

brilliant mate ha ha

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Not according to the author.

Honey roasted and I'll eat it up.

I'm sorry. I'm pretty sure the author wrote the books. (See above)

[Andy @ Allerton!]

As its a Sci-Fi show, then the fact that a character could change sex is acceptable. However, the Doctor has been male for 50 odd years and there has never ever been any indication he could change gender - big clue in him being a Time Lord. You always knew the next incarnation of the doctor would be a man. If this was the 3rd or 4th doctor over say 5 years of the shows existence, then no-one would care, but they are re-writing 50 years of a show. I'm not particularly arsed what they do and it won't affect me as I'm no longer a fan of the show, since Tom Baker, the only series I've liked where the ones with David Tennant. However, I'll always see the doctor as a man, as that is how the character was written and has been played for 50 years.

I agree with Andy, if they want a strong female role model, then create one, don't steal a male role.

Cheers. I'm not the only one in this thread. Few others too.

It's like Vietnam. You weren't there man you weren't there! (Surprising how few Americans get that)

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Bring back Tom Baker - Scottie Rd Scouser!!!!!

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I'm sorry. I'm pretty sure the author wrote the books. (See above)

Yes he did and he named the chracter James Bond code name 007.Funny thing is that he didn't just pluck the name out of his arse so there is plenty of direct quotes from the man about the name and code name.


Name  AND Code Name.FFS M even called him James.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Yes he did and he named the chracter James Bond code name 007.Funny thing is that he didn't just pluck the name out of his arse so there is plenty of direct quotes from the man about the name and code name.


Name  AND Code Name.

Yes. Read what I said above.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Yes. Read what I said above.

I read it,rolled my eyes and ignored it.

I have memories to protect.

[Hazell]

I read it,rolled my eyes and ignored it.

I have memories to protect.

It turns out you're just protecting mammaries.

(sorry).

[TepidT2O]

Andy will watch it a few times....

Realise he was wrong and come back and say soz.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

It turns out you're just protecting mammaries.

(sorry).

 
Something that has gotten me in trouble far too many times.

[coolbyrne]

Andy will watch it a few times....

Realise he was wrong and come back and say soz.

Nah, he'll watch it a few times and come back at the first sign of a bad episode to tell us so.

[Bunter]

The laughably predictable outrage from the usual narrow-minded sorts is a joy to behold. Does it really fucking matter that it's a woman?

[Alan_X]

Great choice. I've been watching since the first episode so I represent the 50-year audience as much as anyone else on here. It's original premise was to educate people with ideas about science and about famous moments or periods on history. I stopped watching during the Sylvester McCoy years (a man by the way) because he was a bit shit. Otherwise I just enjoy the show for what it is.

Doctor Who is an alien who can regenerate after death into a different body. We've had 12 men in the role and now we get a woman. I'm looking forward to it. She'll sink or swim on the performance and the writing. Anyone who writes her off before they've even the first few episodes is a misogynist bellend.

As for women playing 'men's roles'. I recently saw an all-woman version of Taming of the Shrew at my local theatre. It was directed by Stephen Thompson (an old friend) who incidentally has also written for Sherlock and Doctor Who. It was fantastic and Stephen's programme notes made the point that there aren't enough decent women's parts so let woman play the 'men's' roles because it's about the performance when it comes down to it.

[Filler.]

The laughably predictable outrage from the usual narrow-minded sorts is a joy to behold. Does it really fucking matter that it's a woman?

I always thought that the regeneration of Doctor Who could ALWAYS have been a woman as per the plotline? In fact, didn't Tom Baker's Doctor Who say something like that before he regenerated? Vague memory of that I have to say, but yes... hilarious seeing people lose their shit over it

[killer-heels]

One of the most humorous things about this will the complete fume that will be going on in the headquarters of The Daily Mail, The S*n, Spiked and UKIP.

[Alan_X]

But this is the SAME person, not a replacement

Ah yes - look at the resemblance between each one:



They all look exactly alike, are the same age, behave the same...

[TepidT2O]

Fucking hell....

This thread is an eye opener....


Who knew Alan was that old?

[dave 5516]

Ah yes - look at the resemblance between each one:



They all look exactly alike, are the same age, behave the same...

I still prefer Peter Cushing's Doctor out of them all. Dr. Who and the Daleks, good film.

[Riquende]

You always knew the next incarnation of the doctor would be a man.

Well now you know that you never knew that.

[goalspaytherent]

Always thought Robert Bathhurst from Cold Feet would have been a great Doctor Who ....never really thought of a woman in the role tbf but let's see what happens ....as someone said earlier , if the writing is shit then she will have a struggle on her hands ....good luck to her

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Great choice. I've been watching since the first episode so I represent the 50-year audience as much as anyone else on here. It's original premise was to educate people with ideas about science and about famous moments or periods on history. I stopped watching during the Sylvester McCoy years (a man by the way) because he was a bit shit. Otherwise I just enjoy the show for what it is.

Doctor Who is an alien who can regenerate after death into a different body. We've had 12 men in the role and now we get a woman. I'm looking forward to it. She'll sink or swim on the performance and the writing. Anyone who writes her off before they've even the first few episodes is a misogynist bellend.

As for women playing 'men's roles'. I recently saw an all-woman version of Taming of the Shrew at my local theatre. It was directed by Stephen Thompson (an old friend) who incidentally has also written for Sherlock and Doctor Who. It was fantastic and Stephen's programme notes made the point that there aren't enough decent women's parts so let woman play the 'men's' roles because it's about the performance when it comes down to it.

Bollocks.  I hate women because I'm annoyed they've fucked with a show I like for no real reason?  And my wife hates women too??

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Ah yes - look at the resemblance between each one:



They all look exactly alike, are the same age, behave the same...

Er. You been on the ale mate?

[Red Ol]

Fucking hell....

This thread is an eye opener....


Who knew Alan was that old?

Clearly a regeneration ......

[Alan_X]

Bollocks.  I hate women because I'm annoyed they've fucked with a show I like for no real reason?  And my wife hates women too??

Haha - don't take it personally Andy. They haven't fucked with the show - it's science fiction and that allows things like this to happen. I know you like a lot of TV that I like. Give it a chance and let's see what happens.

[sms1986]

Er. You been on the ale mate?

I think he's being sarcastic, although it annoys me that Capaldi doesn't have the same background as the others.

[Alan_X]

As its a Sci-Fi show, then the fact that a character could change sex is acceptable. However, the Doctor has been male for 50 odd years and there has never ever been any indication he could change gender - big clue in him being a Time Lord. You always knew the next incarnation of the doctor would be a man. If this was the 3rd or 4th doctor over say 5 years of the shows existence, then no-one would care, but they are re-writing 50 years of a show. I'm not particularly arsed what they do and it won't affect me as I'm no longer a fan of the show, since Tom Baker, the only series I've liked where the ones with David Tennant. However, I'll always see the doctor as a man, as that is how the character was written and has been played for 50 years.

I agree with Andy, if they want a strong female role model, then create one, don't steal a male role.

Just as a reminder about where gender and sexuality stood in 1970 when Jon Pertwee became the third Doctor, homosexuality had only been decriminalised in England and Wales three years before. The Gay Liberation was formed in that year but homosexuality was still illegal between consenting adults for another 12 years in Scotland. And women had another five years to wait before the Sex Discrimination Act came into effect.

Of course it was always a man back in the early days. Because that was the world we lived in. It reflected the social context but we now live in a world where sexuality and gender are far less important. In 1970, your boss would always be a man, your MP would always be a man, a soldier on active service would always be a man... and so on.

[Ray K]

The Doctor still isn't a ginger. That's the real discrimination they should be addressing.

Chris Chibnall has experience working with Jodie Whittaker on Broadchurch, so I hope it can hit the ground running. Capaldi was seriously hampered by a badly written first series and it's a pity he's leaving when he's gotten a good companion and a good run of episodes this series.

[rob1966]

Just as a reminder about where gender and sexuality stood in 1970 when Jon Pertwee became the third Doctor, homosexuality had only been decriminalised in England and Wales three years before. The Gay Liberation was formed in that year but homosexuality was still illegal between consenting adults for another 12 years in Scotland. And women had another five years to wait before the Sex Discrimination Act came into effect.

Of course it was always a man back in the early days. Because that was the world we lived in. It reflected the social context but we now live in a world where sexuality and gender are far less important. In 1970, your boss would always be a man, your MP would always be a man, a soldier on active service would always be a man... and so on.

I get all that, I grew up in the 70's, I saw how bad it was. Its the fucking with characters I'm on about, in the same way I hate Tom Cruise playing Jack Reacher - Reacher is 6ft 5 of solid muscle, Cruise is about 5ft 8 or something. I couldn't give a shit what colour, sex  or anything else a main character is, but at least show some originality and come up with a new character, don't change 50 years of history to suit today.

[TepidT2O]

I get all that, I grew up in the 70's, I saw how bad it was. Its the fucking with characters I'm on about, in the same way I hate Tom Cruise playing Jack Reacher - Reacher is 6ft 5 of solid muscle, Cruise is about 5ft 8 or something. I couldn't give a shit what colour, sex  or anything else a main character is, but at least show some originality and come up with a new character, don't change 50 years of history to suit today.

Every other aspect of the character can change.

Why not the gender??

[coolbyrne]

I get all that, I grew up in the 70's, I saw how bad it was. Its the fucking with characters I'm on about, in the same way I hate Tom Cruise playing Jack Reacher - Reacher is 6ft 5 of solid muscle, Cruise is about 5ft 8 or something. I couldn't give a shit what colour, sex  or anything else a main character is, but at least show some originality and come up with a new character, don't change 50 years of history to suit today.

But they haven't changed 50 years of history. You still have 50 years worth of Doctor Who history with 12 men. I don't understand this idea of how casting a woman in 2017 changes everything that has happened up to this point; how a casting decision made when you're an adult destroys everything you ever had as a child. If they cast a woman as Bond, I would still have 6 (I don't count Niven) other Bonds to watch. That doesn't go away just because a woman/black guy/gay person is cast.