Author Topic: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**  (Read 354577 times)

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4840 on: July 16, 2017, 05:17:33 pm »
Quite odd this.

He's an alien, can travel through time, his time machine is a 1950s police box, he has two hearts, he appears to be immortal... all fine..

He's a woman!!! Fuck that shit..
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4841 on: July 16, 2017, 05:21:00 pm »
And that's me done.

They've clearly decided they're secure enough in their new fanbase that they can afford to piss off the old.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4842 on: July 16, 2017, 05:21:48 pm »
My 11 year old daughter is unhappy. It is easy to just decide that anyone against the concept is a middle aged Daily Mail reading sexist, but like most things there are more layers than that..
For my kid and me this is probably our biggest bonding thing, watching Dr who together. She wasn't a particular fan of Capaldi, but she stuck with him, I'm hoping she hangs on for a totally different dynamic before bailing, because before long she is a teenager with no desire to hang out with her dad anyway.
in terms of rating popularity, not just in the UK, but around the world has been dropping steadily, and it's because the new incarnation is, for better or worse, defined by having chemistry between young(ish) Drs and companions. Capaldi threw that off and people bailed. I honestly don't think a female dr, even if you give her an attractive young male companion, is going to create the dynamic that brings audiences back, at least not past an initial curiosity bounce.


***oh and for context, I live in the US and have for 20 years, so the show is more a niche thing, than embedded into popular culture***
 



Interesting that you went with that option. And I don't mean that in a disparaging way; it just shows how stuck we can be in certain ideas. Not sure if the show wants to add fuel to the fire, but they've already made heads explode by casting a woman. Perhaps 'in for a penny' might be their new mantra.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4843 on: July 16, 2017, 05:21:51 pm »
And that's me done.

They've clearly decided they're secure enough in their new fanbase that they can afford to piss off the old.
Two hearts good, one vagina bad?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Libertine

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4844 on: July 16, 2017, 05:23:42 pm »
Always find it extraordinary how people can spend years watching shows like Doctor Who and Star Trek and still completely miss the point of them.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4845 on: July 16, 2017, 05:24:15 pm »
Anyone care to explain why this casting is so bad, or why it's pissing you off?

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4846 on: July 16, 2017, 05:24:46 pm »
Quite odd this.

He's an alien, can travel through time, his time machine is a 1950s police box, he has two hearts, he appears to be immortal... all fine..

He's a woman!!! Fuck that shit..

So are aliens by definition only male then? I thought aliens were, well aliens that is not male or female. Therefore does it really make a difference?
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4847 on: July 16, 2017, 05:25:40 pm »
I like the new design of the sonic screwdriver.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4848 on: July 16, 2017, 05:27:41 pm »
So are aliens by definition only male then? I thought aliens were, well aliens that is not male or female. Therefore does it really make a difference?

Dr Who is an alien. Who knows?

This is a show where almost anything can happen within the loose framework of the show, almost anything..

Yet Dr who being a woman?  NOOOOOO!!

It's an odd rule for fans to draw, and I really can't see why they've done it.  Seems entirely reasonable given th shows stricture..
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4849 on: July 16, 2017, 05:28:32 pm »
Quite odd this.

He's an alien, can travel through time, his time machine is a 1950s police box, he has two hearts, he appears to be immortal... all fine..

He's a woman!!! Fuck that shit..

There aren't enough good female role models - so don't steal them - create them.

This decision makes no real sense.

My missus must be a sexist too "they ruin everything" she opined and she fucking hates it. If they wanted to create a strong female lead in thst universe they could have easily done it. Have the Doctor incapacited for a year or ten and have her step in. But no, this recent bollocks about any sex time lords appeared,  so you knew it was coming. Ruined it for me.

If had been a female James Bond or a female Tony Stark or a female Batman then I wouldnt have given a shit really. But this is something I've watched for pretty much 50 years.

Wish I hadn't bothered now.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4850 on: July 16, 2017, 05:30:48 pm »
There aren't enough good female role models - so don't steal them - create them.

This decision makes no real sense.

My missus must be a sexist too "they ruin everything" she opined and she fucking hates it. If they wanted to create a strong female lead in thst universe they could have easily done it. Have the Doctor incapacited for a year or ten and have her step in. But no, this recent bollocks about any sex time lords appeared,  so you knew it was coming. Ruined it for me.

If had been a female James Bond or a female Tony Stark or a female Batman then I wouldnt have given a shit really. But this is something I've watched for pretty much 50 years.

Wish I hadn't bothered now.

:lmao


Tony Stark could easily be female.. James Bond would be much more difficult given the character's key personality traits being so mysognistitc.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4851 on: July 16, 2017, 05:30:48 pm »
Dr Who is an alien. Who knows?

This is a show where almost anything can happen within the loose framework of the show, almost anything..

Yet Dr who being a woman?  NOOOOOO!!

It's an odd rule for fans to draw, and I really can't see why they've done it.  Seems entirely reasonable given th shows stricture..

You said he was an alien in your post, that's what I was answering.  ;D

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4852 on: July 16, 2017, 05:31:44 pm »
You said he was an alien in your post, that's what I was answering.  ;D


Historically he I suppose...

Still don't understand why not being a man ruins it, I really don't...
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4853 on: July 16, 2017, 05:37:57 pm »
:lmao


Tony Stark could easily be female.. James Bond would be much more difficult given the character's key personality traits being so mysognistitc.

James Bond has always been a code name. She could be a predatory lesbian.

They should cast a woman as Shakespeare or Churchill or Margaret Thatcher and really shake things up
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4854 on: July 16, 2017, 05:38:22 pm »
Interesting that you went with that option. And I don't mean that in a disparaging way; it just shows how stuck we can be in certain ideas. Not sure if the show wants to add fuel to the fire, but they've already made heads explode by casting a woman. Perhaps 'in for a penny' might be their new mantra.

Well my point is, the show - as a worldwide phenomenon - is in decline. The reason why is because they went away from the nu-who formula, which itself was different from the original setup.
I certainly get you could keep the current companion, who has very clearly stated she only likes females, and create a new dynamic based on that - or get a new companion with the same concept - but I'd be amazed if that increased the ratings, and streaming rights sales, and merchandise etc.
From what I've read the BBC was concerned with the shows popularity in the Capaldi era, for it to continue on for another ten years it needs a spike, not just in the UK but as an attractive asset to sell across the globe.

Again I would always give the show a chance because it is a big part of my childhood, but as a betting man I just don't see this working in terms of increased popularity past an initial curiosity factor.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4855 on: July 16, 2017, 05:42:12 pm »
And that's me done.

They've clearly decided they're secure enough in their new fanbase that they can afford to piss off the old.

This reminds me of Kitchen Nightmares where the restaurant owner won't change the menu because he's afraid of offending the 5 blue hairs who come in every Sunday. Meanwhile, the owner's up to his eyeballs in debt and doesn't understand why Gordon is suggesting the change.
Oh, these sour times.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4856 on: July 16, 2017, 05:43:42 pm »
There aren't enough good female role models - so don't steal them - create them.

This decision makes no real sense.

My missus must be a sexist too "they ruin everything" she opined and she fucking hates it. If they wanted to create a strong female lead in thst universe they could have easily done it. Have the Doctor incapacited for a year or ten and have her step in. But no, this recent bollocks about any sex time lords appeared,  so you knew it was coming. Ruined it for me.

If had been a female James Bond or a female Tony Stark or a female Batman then I wouldnt have given a shit really. But this is something I've watched for pretty much 50 years.

Wish I hadn't bothered now.

Good point, but the sad fact is television is not interested in doing female role models. It's is one of those things that has driven me mad for years. The majority of shows are written with male characters taking centre stage. The women are usually in the background, or prettied up to bring the shows some "glamour." There are very few people writing in mainstream television who can produce well balanced, multi layered female characters at all. There is also a lack of women writers working on shows certainly over here, mores the pity. Its one of the reasons I started writing myself, as you think you can hardly do a worse job, them some of the professional writers do. 

Going back to Dr Who, it is certainly a risk but that is not always a bad thing. Sometimes you need to take chances, to give shows a different dimension and keep them fresh. I doubt that Dr Who will stay female for ever, all the more reason to just see how they do it, and judge it then.
 

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4857 on: July 16, 2017, 05:43:55 pm »
I think she will be brilliant.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4858 on: July 16, 2017, 05:45:52 pm »
James Bond has always been a code name. She could be a predatory lesbian.

They should cast a woman as Shakespeare or Churchill or Margaret Thatcher and really shake things up

Not true. Skyfall established 'James Bond' as being a real person. (Well, 'real' in the sense of being a real fictional character.) They'd have to reboot it again to change the current canon.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4859 on: July 16, 2017, 05:46:19 pm »
There have been four full time masters.
She's not better than Simm, certainly not better than Anthony Ainley.
Roger Delgado? Don't be absurd.

So I'd say that no, she wasn't one of the best masters.


And you're entitled to your opinion,I really enjoyed all the scenes that she was in.

Simm is my favourite though.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4860 on: July 16, 2017, 05:48:22 pm »
This reminds me of Kitchen Nightmares where the restaurant owner won't change the menu because he's afraid of offending the 5 blue hairs who come in every Sunday. Meanwhile, the owner's up to his eyeballs in debt and doesn't understand why Gordon is suggesting the change.

People have been watching this show for 50 years. An amazing number. 50 years.. not just a few people. I'm progressive and happy with everyone getting rights and I've got good friends that are gay and also some that are women gasp!! And some of those are gay too. But I'm annoyed with this not due to women's rights or anything - women should get equal pay and equal rights ' I'm pissed cos this is my childhood they've fucked with. Tom Bakers Dr wasn't a cool dude - he was a woman really. My sister should have been watching it. I should have been out drinking and blowing things up. Male role models that are kind, decent and gentle were largely unknown before today. Now they always have been. Because it was a lie. He was never a male role model.  He was always transgender
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4861 on: July 16, 2017, 05:49:17 pm »
Well my point is, the show - as a worldwide phenomenon - is in decline. The reason why is because they went away from the nu-who formula, which itself was different from the original setup.
I certainly get you could keep the current companion, who has very clearly stated she only likes females, and create a new dynamic based on that - or get a new companion with the same concept - but I'd be amazed if that increased the ratings, and streaming rights sales, and merchandise etc.
From what I've read the BBC was concerned with the shows popularity in the Capaldi era, for it to continue on for another ten years it needs a spike, not just in the UK but as an attractive asset to sell across the globe.

Again I would always give the show a chance because it is a big part of my childhood, but as a betting man I just don't see this working in terms of increased popularity past an initial curiosity factor.
I stopped watching mid way through Matt Smith, caught the start of an episode a few weeks ago and thought it was shocking. The writing, acting and even the production quality was a clear step down from the Ecclestone/Tennant era.

This just feels like an attempt to be edgy, people have been asking for this for a couple of years now. Unfortunately there'll be no way of knowing the answer to that because the show will likely be terrible either way  ;D
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4862 on: July 16, 2017, 05:50:09 pm »

And you're entitled to your opinion,I really enjoyed all the scenes that she was in.

Simm is my favourite though.

Lol ffs really?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4863 on: July 16, 2017, 05:50:23 pm »
I like the new design of the sonic screwdriver.



Even her new sonic screwdriver is sticking two fingers up to the fans.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4864 on: July 16, 2017, 05:54:54 pm »
People have been watching this show for 50 years. An amazing number. 50 years.. not just a few people. I'm progressive and happy with everyone getting rights and I've got good friends that are gay and also some that are women gasp!! And some of those are gay too. But I'm annoyed with this not due to women's rights or anything - women should get equal pay and equal rights ' I'm pissed cos this is my childhood they've fucked with. Tom Bakers Dr wasn't a cool dude - he was a woman really. My sister should have been watching it. I should have been out drinking and blowing things up. Male role models that are kind, decent and gentle were largely unknown before today. Now they always have been. Because it was a lie. He was never a male role model.  He was always transgender

What the hell are you rambling on about? You've watched the show for the better part of 50 years. And now, with the single casting of a woman, they've shat on you, ripped your childhood memories to pieces, torn your still-beating heart out of your chest, and taken away everything that ever meant anything to you ever?  ::)
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4865 on: July 16, 2017, 05:56:25 pm »
Its certainly big news 4 of the top 10 trends worldwide are about Dr Who.
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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4866 on: July 16, 2017, 05:56:50 pm »
James Bond 007 has always been a code name. She could be a predatory lesbian.

They should cast a woman as Shakespeare or Churchill or Margaret Thatcher and really shake things up

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4867 on: July 16, 2017, 05:57:06 pm »


There aren't enough good female role models - so don't steal them - create them.

This decision makes no real sense.

My missus must be a sexist too "they ruin everything" she opined and she fucking hates it. If they wanted to create a strong female lead in thst universe they could have easily done it. Have the Doctor incapacited for a year or ten and have her step in. But no, this recent bollocks about any sex time lords appeared,  so you knew it was coming. Ruined it for me.

If had been a female James Bond or a female Tony Stark or a female Batman then I wouldnt have given a shit really. But this is something I've watched for pretty much 50 years.

Wish I hadn't bothered now.


Because a woman has been cast you wish you hadn't watched a show for 50 years that you clearly love? Fucking hell. Mad.

Btw in the comics Tony Stark's successor is a young black female. Its a good read. Batman has had Batgirl and Batwoman as part of his legacy for decades.

I don't understand the forward thinking, liberal, equality based narrative of sci-fi like Doctor Who being so misunderstood. FWIW The Doctor would think these opinions representative of a small-minded petty old fool.

All the best.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 05:59:06 pm by Byrnee »
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At The End Of The Storm I

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4868 on: July 16, 2017, 06:00:41 pm »
Its certainly big news 4 of the top 10 trends worldwide are about Dr Who.

It shows you how stupid fandoms are then, and I've grown up with certain ones.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4869 on: July 16, 2017, 06:02:37 pm »
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline sms1986

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4870 on: July 16, 2017, 06:04:34 pm »
I don't watch Doctor Who myself (although one of my brothers is a big fan, I'm not sure what he thinks of a female Doctor) but I don't see the problem. All of the qualities of the character which differentiate them from humans are believable as part of the in-programme universe, but the Doctor being a woman isn't?


Offline Skeeve

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4871 on: July 16, 2017, 06:04:55 pm »
Btw in the comics Tony Stark's successor is a young black female. Its a good read. Batman has had Batgirl and Batwoman as part of his legacy for decades.

I thought the particular successor there was a terrible choice when they had a nearly identical character in Lila Rhodes (Rhodey's niece), but Bendis wanted to push a character he created rather than more logically promoting an existing one.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4872 on: July 16, 2017, 06:06:28 pm »


James Bond is clearly also a code name.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4873 on: July 16, 2017, 06:09:01 pm »

Because a woman has been cast you wish you hadn't watched a show for 50 years that you clearly love? Fucking hell. Mad.

Btw in the comics Tony Stark's successor is a young black female. Its a good read. Batman has had Batgirl and Batwoman as part of his legacy for decades.

I don't understand the forward thinking, liberal, equality based narrative of sci-fi like Doctor Who being so misunderstood. FWIW The Doctor would think these opinions representative of a small-minded petty old fool.

All the best.

If the Doctor had dropped dead and been replaced by a woman then fine. How would you feel about Batman being cast as a woman? Or Ironman? You're talking about different things
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4874 on: July 16, 2017, 06:11:11 pm »
If the Doctor had dropped dead and been replaced

Isn't that technically what happens to the Doctor anyway?

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4875 on: July 16, 2017, 06:11:54 pm »
James Bond is clearly also a code name.

The names Bond,James Bond.

It was never a code name

Quote
Commander James Bond, CMG, RNVR, is a fictional character created by British journalist and novelist Ian Fleming in 1953. He is the protagonist of the James Bond series of novels, films, comics and video games. Fleming wrote twelve Bond novels and two short story collections. His final two books—The Man with the Golden Gun (1965) and Octopussy and The Living Daylights (1966)—were published posthumously.

The Bond character is a Secret Service agent, code number 007, residing in London but active internationally.
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Offline SP

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4876 on: July 16, 2017, 06:12:49 pm »
If the Doctor had dropped dead and been replaced by a woman then fine. How would you feel about Batman being cast as a woman? Or Ironman? You're talking about different things

Counldn't give a shit if either was cast as a woman.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4877 on: July 16, 2017, 06:15:50 pm »
The names Bond,James Bond.

It was never a code name


I've read and have all the books and all the films. It's a code name. The books are utterly unlike the films. I will give you the character being a character in the books. Bit not the films. Many obvious reasons the name was a code name. Plenty of articles too.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4878 on: July 16, 2017, 06:20:00 pm »
I can't understand the outrage here. The doctor's appearance changes during regeneration. Thus, it seems extremely plausible that the doctor could take the appearance of a woman during that process.

Offline JerseyKloppite

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Re: Doctor Who **USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE**
« Reply #4879 on: July 16, 2017, 06:21:12 pm »
You wish you hadn't bothered watching a show you've enjoyed for 50 years because of a casting decision in 2017 :lmao

I do understand your argument about male role models but don't agree with it. There are plenty of positive male role models for one, and for two this casting doesn't mean that the previous incarnations of the Doctor weren't positive role models. They were male at the time, and they remain role models. That the Doctor is now played by a woman is irrelevant to that.

"If Liverpool appointed a female manager I'd stop supporting them. Shanks was a bloke, Paisley was a bloke, Kenny was a bloke. All positive role models, RUINED by our decision to appoint a bird."