Topic: Old photos of and around Liverpool

[Tsar Kastik]

Totally unrecognisable today...taken from here, http://www.peoples-stories.com/your-stories.php?il=RDGGBFCZFJ there are 39 pages of varied photos. Hover over 'stories' across the top and select 'pictures' from the drop-down.

[Big Red Richie]

This one was in town, and though no longer around, the photo itself can be seen on show in another pub in town.

Same photo, only better quality.

http://www.peoples-stories.com/story.php?i=HNBYKPLNXN&n=128&s=stories&il=&t=pictures&f=date&p=1   

[Tsar Kastik]

Yes Richie.  Have you spotted it in the White Star?

[Big Red Richie]

No. But now I know where to look. 

[John C]

some interesting aerial photos from the 1920's on here
http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/asearch?name=LIVERPOOL&gazetteer=LIVERPOOL&POPULATED_PLACE=LIVERPOOL&ADMIN_AREA=Liverpool

Great find mate, I'll have another look at them tomorrow. Calderstones Park & area is so different.

[The Gulleysucker]

#merseytunnel

Are we doing the tunnel then?

I'll make a start....

From here ... http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/conservation/exhibitions/metropolis/construction/tunnel_workers.aspx







From ... BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/image_galleries/local_history_queensway_tunnel_gallery.shtml?1









I've always loved this picture below. Gives you an idea of the size of the tunnel. It was proposed to have trams running in the bottom half.
I think they've now constructed some refuges down there linked together in case of emergencies.









And some others, see URL's for original sources







The original artists drawing..





You don't often see pictures from this angle....



There's a picture of Old Haymarket before demolition for the tunnel entrance here...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54996985@N00/3819784827/

And some more of construction here...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/boo66/2781364311/

Streetview of the old disused Birkenhead Docks entrance....
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=liverpool&hl=en&ll=53.397635,-3.02389&spn=0.005719,0.011576&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=11.56621,23.708496&hnear=Liverpool,+Merseyside,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.397876,-3.024247&panoid=V_iGd_Z20WzDpH8Y9M1gGQ&cbp=12,176.84,,0,11.76

[Tsar Kastik]

Wowzers Gulley, great start.

Just a suggestion; might it be a better idea to open a new made-to-measure thread for these weekly themes?

[The Gulleysucker]

Just a suggestion; might it be a better idea to open a new made-to-measure thread for these weekly themes?

Not too sure Tsar. We want to keep on the right side of the mods, they have enough on their plate at times, so it might make their life easier if it stays in the one thread. After all it's meant to be primarily a footy site and there are other sites for such things, this is just our pleasant little sideline on here.

What I would suggest is perhaps we should instead tag our posts at the start with the topic in hand, eg #merseytunnel, I've just done mine above, which will then enable easy searching for posts on the 'sub' topic in here by just searching for messages containing the tag.

I've just been trying to find an old 30's book I've got somewhere upstairs in a box, one of those 'Miracles of Modern Engineering' type things from the days when the map of the world was largely coloured pink. I think it's got some pics of the tunnel in it taken during construction though they may well be ones that are already out there.

[the 92A]

Not too sure Tsar. We want to keep on the right side of the mods, they have enough on their plate at times, so it might make their life easier if it stays in the one thread. After all it's meant to be primarily a footy site and there are other sites for such things, this is just our pleasant little sideline on here.

What I would suggest is perhaps we should instead tag our posts at the start with the topic in hand, eg #merseytunnel, I've just done mine above, which will then enable easy searching for posts on the 'sub' topic in here by just searching for messages containing the tag.

I've just been trying to find an old 30's book I've got somewhere upstairs in a box, one of those 'Miracles of Modern Engineering' type things from the days when the map of the world was largely coloured pink. I think it's got some pics of the tunnel in it taken during construction though they may well be ones that are already out there.

Ritchie, Gulley, Tsar, I can't see a problem with a new thread in Liverpool Life, I can't see it needing much modding or being too contentious,  I have no problem keeping an eye on it out of interest anyway pm me if you want to go down that route and I'll move Gulley's tunnel stuff across or he can repost it

[Slick_Beef]

Great stuff Gulley, thanks very much for that.

One thing I have always been curious about was the name. Why is it that the tunnel opened by the King is the Queensway and the tunnel opened by the Queen is the Kingsway? Anyone know?

An interesting photo I came across, that probably Richie can elaborate more on having been on the tour -



(taken from http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?39240-Mersey-tunnel-and-ventilation-shafts )

I gather that on the tour you walk under that bridge under Brunswick street, and that the roof in this photo:



is one of the arches of the bridge?

This is ignorance on my part but in all the years I lived in Liverpool I had no idea that area was all built on top of the river and that the river in fact still passes underneath there. It's lovely that a glimpse of "old" liverpool is somehow preserved under there.



A few other interesting photos from the same site:

[AlphaDelta]

Its not often you get aircraft going THROUGH the Mersey Tunnel, this is a convoy of American P-51 Mustangs being transported from Ellesmere Port (there used to be an airfield at Hooton nr Vauxhalls) on their way to Speke Airport.



Did you know buses are only allowed to use the outside lane of each tunnels due to height restrictions. I wonder who was unluckly enough to be sat on the top deck when they discovered the bus was too tall to fit! 



Cartoon depicting the opening of the Birkenhead Tunnel



What a stunning picture, wish it was bigger.

[The Gulleysucker]

That's a super photo and I wonder if it is part of the same convoy we discussed earlier on the the thread and (I'd) assumed had probably just come straight from the docks.


streetview scene now


streetview scene now

Perhaps it was such a special and unusual event they had the official photographers along to record it as ordinary photography was for the most part forbidden then, certainly of military convoys. Makes you wonder how many more photo's of that convoy are hidden away somewhere.

[Tsar Kastik]

Got to say this is a fine start to the topic. Well done Alpha, Beefy  and GS.

Alpha, that 2nd brightly coloured one might be from the magazine that Gulley mentioned. Here's a bigger one if you want to copy it and swap them, then I'll edit my post accordingly,

[The Gulleysucker]

#merseytunnel

Here's a few more...
I thought this one might match with the shot during construction in my other post but it doesn't quite seem to...


And from Streets of Liverpool...


I'm assuming the flags and those strange obelisk like columns up top are from the opening.

You can also just make out the sign for Frank Hessy's on the wall of the building top left. I never knew he was ever there until now, just thought he was always in Stanley Street.

And also from Streets.... the old control centre...



There's a couple of before and after photo's of the restoration of one of the toll booths here ...
http://www.southportreporter.com/351/351-11.shtml#axzz1ytsR7cbl

[Slick_Beef]

#merseytunnel

Here's a few more...
I thought this one might match with the shot during construction in my other post but it doesn't quite seem to...

Here's a corresponding construction photo of the Rendel Street spur that does match up nicely



(source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/boo66/2781364311/lightbox/ )



Alpha - love that first photo of the planes,  good find.

[The Gulleysucker]

Cheers Slick, that looks more like it.

[The Gulleysucker]

...One thing I have always been curious about was the name. Why is it that the tunnel opened by the King is the Queensway and the tunnel opened by the Queen is the Kingsway? Anyone know?

The only thing I can find is on Timbo's Liverpool and it would seem it was simply...

The tunnel was officially opened by King George V on 18 July 1934 and was named Queensway, in honour of Queen Mary who was also present.

Here's some more pics from the Beeb

Central Avenue, the bottom half you never normally see...



The water collection, drains down to mid tunnel and is then pumped out...



The high tech machine for examining the underside of the suspended roadway for cracks...



Cracks...



Interesting commentary to that picture...

These markings on the ceiling relate to the cracks which have formed over time. In total there are 10,660 of them. The tunnel road deck has been strengthened 3 times but it cannot be done again as the supports would get too near the air vents meaning the ventilation system would have to be re-fitted.

And there's a good few more of assorted machinery, control panels and various ancillary tunnels on the ever excellent 28dayslater urbex site (I love those guys)

eg another photo of the inspection machine....



http://www.tunnelusers.org.uk/history.htm also has a few (copyrighted so I won't hotlink) older 60's shots of the entrance.

[AlphaDelta]

Loving this thread, well done to all the lads who have contributed so far......

As for the aircraft convoy, i'd defo go along with the official photographers stationed along the route. The RAF musuem site where the pic came claims the convoy was from Ellesmere Port to Speke, but with the aircraft being US P-51's, I did wonder if they were going to Burtonwood (which I think was an US Army Airfield at the time).

[The Gulleysucker]

Loving this thread, well done to all the lads who have contributed so far......

As for the aircraft convoy, i'd defo go along with the official photographers stationed along the route. The RAF musuem site where the pic came claims the convoy was from Ellesmere Port to Speke, but with the aircraft being US P-51's, I did wonder if they were going to Burtonwood (which I think was an US Army Airfield at the time).

I too reckon Burtonwood was the more likely destination. (I've corrected a few things on the RAF history website over the years ....the chap running it recognises he's often wrong and welcomes people to get in touch. He's probably unaware that Burtonwood even existed even though its last use was during the 1st Gulf War).  Almost unrecognisable now, it was at one time the largest US base in Europe and virtually all US forces aircraft came through it before being sent on to their operational bases.

[Tsar Kastik]

^^^^

and at the bar they gave you your change in cents and dollars 

[The Gulleysucker]

Here they are coming out on the Liverpool side...



Looks like there may have been more than one convoy though....



The caption for the one below says P-51 Mustang aircraft leaving Princes Landing Stage



I've never seen this one before....P61 Black Widow night fighters....



And Lightnings being sent back to the US...Alexandra Dock




Just found this ... http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/ESCORT/NABOB.htm

Nabob delivered Mustangs to Liverpool. Left NY on March 23rd '44 and it says 'unloaded her cargo at RAF Speke' ....the thick plottens...

It also specifically says the Mustangs were for the RAF (I know 2nd TAF had a few squadrons) so RAF Speke would perhaps make sense if that was the case.

Anyway.....thanks to the work of the guys here... http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/archive/index.php/t-3712.html (who also have doubts about Speke)

Here's Nabob with her cargo...


Edit update ...

Speke had a Lockheed reassembly plant that assembled Lockheed aircraft imported from the US (and also a Rootes Securities plant that assembled some Halifaxes for the RAF)

IWM Speke

Found these there...



The assembly of North American Mustang aircraft at the Lockheed Aircraft Corporation factory, Speke airport, Liverpool. The propeller is in position and mechanics (both men and women) are checking over the engine.



Mustang Mark I, AG346, on the ground at Speke Airport, Liverpool, following erection at the Lockheed facility. This aircraft served with Nos. 225, 63 and 26 Squadrons RAF, and then with No. 41 Operational Training Unit.

So it's looking like that convoy of P 51's perhaps was heading to Speke after all....

Edit update...found this on a forum, said to be Liverpool Docks...Jugs..P47 Thunderbolts...



And here ... http://www.flickr.com/photos/last_lightning/5989101042/ is bit of text about a now preserved 8th AF Mustang that was shipped in via Liverpool in March '45.

[rusty-la]

Fascinating posts lads, just spent the last hour or so reading this thread. Am off now to play footy, but thanks for the pictures and the descriptions, its a great read.

[Tsar Kastik]

Resurfacing the tunnel on hands and knees...and using a pneumatic drill in the tunnel, without ear protection  both from here, plenty more of them,   http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.php?search_word=queensway+tunnel&change=SearchResults&currentPage=1

[Big Red Richie]

Sorry fella's been a bit out of the loop since the weekend.

I'll dig out some photo's of the tour, and post them up later.

[The Gulleysucker]

Guess where...

[The Gulleysucker]

More stuff on the Tunnel here ...  http://www.cbrd.co.uk/indepth/queenswaytunnel/

Follow the links and there's lots of great pics and history bits....

I won't bother posting them all as there's way too many but as an example.



Close to the tunnel portal itself is this floor mosaic, showing the tunnel connecting both sides of the Mersey. The inscription around the edge reads "Map of Queensway Tunnel, built under control of the Mersey Tunnel Joint Committee", and goes on to state the construction period.

This gives the impression that it is original to the tunnel, but its appearance is much newer. A nearby plaque reveals that it is a replica of the original mosaic, placed here in 1994 on the tunnel's diamond jubilee. It is a shame that, like so much else at the Liverpool end, the original feature did not survive.

Peter Cowley writes:

The original mosaic, 100 inches in diameter, minus its granite surrounds, ended up in my front garden in Birkenhead in 1967, having been informed that due to the ravages of time and the war it was not considered worth saving and so long as I removed it within 10 days it was mine to keep! The night of the destruction and removal I learnt the meaning of public apathy. The local police station, 100 yards away had never heard of the mosaic, "whot's a mosayec matey?" Mersey tunnel police cars, motorists and pedestrians never challenged us whilst my friend and I desecrated a public monument and loaded it into an overloaded Cortina saloon, and then drove through the tunnel praying we didn't break down and have to be towed out at enormous expense!

After reconstruction as best I could with the existing bits the spaces were filled in with painted concrete, but it provided a stage for our daughters and friends to play on much to the neighbours amusement and envy. We moved house after 15 years and couldn't face a repeat exercise but our buyers broke it up and sent to the tip! So much for history! 12 years later in 1994 the Mersey tunnel office found the original correspondence and managed to track me down by my name, but they were sadly disappointed to hear of the mosaic's demise.

And it was one of my daughters who came across this item on your website who is now a civil engineer working for a firm of consultants involved in the original design of the tunnel, and she knows that the replacement mosaic is nowhere as good as or big as the original, she has first hand, and foot, experience.

Shame about the other Light going to the tip too. Only this one was rescued.



When it opened, the Queensway had two of these pylons. As well as being decorative features, they were placed in the toll plazas. It's actually a giant light column, designed to be big enough to illuminate the whole tunnel mouth. Birkenhead's pylon was moved here when the new toll plaza was built; Liverpool's was tragically dismantled and sent to landfill in the 1960s.

I used to love glimpsing that when heading into town on London Road on the no 12.

[Slick_Beef]

Great find that Gulley, what a story - must have been great to have that mosaic on his pateo. What a shame the neighbours broke it up!

It's just the same old story with Liverpool though isn't it. The city has such a rich history and time and time again we either completely neglect it (e.g. the sad and out-of-bounds remains of the oldest passenger railway station in the entire world), or even worse, completely destroy it (the original cavern)  Why do the people who run this city have no notion of preserving our history.

[The Gulleysucker]

Just noticed at the top right hand of that CBRD link there are some other links including this film of the grand opening....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/realmedia/localhistory/journey/underground/tunnel_opening.ram

Needs VLC player.

[John C]

Gulley, you may have missed this when I first posted it mate.

[Tsar Kastik]

Guess where...

I give up Gulley. My first instinct was St. Mary's Road in Garston. Way up north maybe - Litherland, Bootle?

[The Gulleysucker]

..... Litherland, Bootle?

Linacre Lane

[The Gulleysucker]

And the same scene now.

Here's a few more from http://www.diduknow.info that I've added streetview links for the scene now.



and now.



and now.



and now.

[OLDIE]

And the same scene now.

Here's a few more from http://www.diduknow.info that I've added streetview links for the scene now.



and now.



and now.



and now.

Quality, I love the way for have put the "now" links too - wonderful mate, what year are the old photo's from ?

[The Gulleysucker]

Quality, I love the way for have put the "now" links too - wonderful mate, what year are the old photo's from ?

The first one is from the general strike in 1911 and is from here. There's a whole pile of assorted photo's there.

Glad you like the 'now' links. As much as I find it's a bit of a challenge sometimes to locate them, I do think it's perhaps more useful to people to see the places in the photo's as they are now.

I think it helps to see the 'now' contrasted against these ghosts of the past, and as a scouser, it also puts into perspective the place we've come from.

Here's another one from 1911...



And here is the scene today.

Although much has vanished over the years like the church on the left, it's fascinating to also see that some of the things in the old picture have survived and are still present today, the cast iron bridge and sandstone pillars in the foreground, the building on the immediate right complete with sign boards though the writing has long gone and the doorway and windows have now been bricked up.

I look at the scene today and can't help but wonder how many people nowadays when they drive or walk down there have any awareness (or even interest) of the events that took place there 101 years ago (though they can probably tell you the names of everyone in TOWIE and similar braindead tv shows).

The other pics were all from the Blitz period.

[OLDIE]

The first one is from the general strike in 1911 and is from here. There's a whole pile of assorted photo's there.

Glad you like the 'now' links. As much as I find it's a bit of a challenge sometimes to locate them, I do think it's perhaps more useful to people to see the places in the photo's as they are now.

I think it helps to see the 'now' contrasted against these ghosts of the past, and as a scouser, it also puts into perspective the place we've come from.

Here's another one from 1911...



And here is the scene today.

Although much has vanished over the years like the church on the left, it's fascinating to also see that some of the things in the old picture have survived and are still present today, the cast iron bridge and sandstone pillars in the foreground, the building on the immediate right complete with sign boards though the writing has long gone and the doorway and windows have now been bricked up.

I look at the scene today and can't help but wonder how many people nowadays when they drive or walk down there have any awareness (or even interest) of the events that took place there 101 years ago (though they can probably tell you the names of everyone in TOWIE and similar braindead tv shows).

The other pics were all from the Blitz period.

Thanks mate.

To think every person in that picture is now dead ! Fucking weird I know but the expressions on the faces tell a million stories

[And Could He Play]

anyone got any good imagine of the hidden liverbird?

[And Could He Play]

and the old bar they used to have in the lvierbuilding for all the top mushes to drink in.

[The Gulleysucker]

anyone got any good imagine of the hidden liverbird?

Do you mean the Mersey Chambers one?



The Water Street one....



In bombed out St Lukes.



I think there's a few more dotted around and tucked away in more obscure or unexpected corners.

Good little blog on things Liverpool here ...  http://inspidered.wordpress.com/2011/09/08/500/

[Red Beret]

The Water Street one....

I saw that and thought of this:



 

[And Could He Play]

ha ha, nice one