Topic: Today's shooting - The Sandy Hook Memorial Thread - Thoughts and Prayers

[Salger]

For obvious reasons mass shootings take the headlines but the sheer volume of gun related deaths in the US is also horrific. Almost 14,000 people killed through gun violence in 2023 to the beginning of May (just over half of these are suicide).

[Ghost Town]

For obvious reasons mass shootings take the headlines but the sheer volume of gun related deaths in the US is also horrific. Almost 14,000 people killed through gun violence in 2023 to the beginning of May (just over half of these are suicide).

Yep. As I mentioned earlier, whereever a gun exists there's a non-zero likelihood that it will at some point maim or kill someone, even if just by accident.

Restricting the existence of guns as much as possible is the best and only way of fixing this. Everything else is just blah blah.

Personally I'd ban even the manufacture of guns, let alone sale, possession or use. But I know that's something that will never come to pass. The thanatotic urge lies deep in the human psyche. A weapon, of some sort, was probably the first thing ever created by a human and a weapon, of awesome deadliness, will probably also be the last thing ever used by humanity.

[Corkboy]

The thanatotic urge

TIL.

[Jiminy Cricket]

The thanatotic urge

TIL.

That's two things 'today I learned'!

[PaulF]

I was liking my idea of gun free malls.
Then I realised they'd become a target.
What America 'needs' now is for an Islamic attack on a mall. Then they can use the same reasoning that prevents them from taking guns into the cabin of a plane.

[Chakan]

I was liking my idea of gun free malls.
Then I realised they'd become a target.
What America 'needs' now is for an Islamic attack on a mall. Then they can use the same reasoning that prevents them from taking guns into the cabin of a plane.

Unfortunately that rule was in place before an attack, so while in theory you'd think it would work, it would probably have the opposite effect and people would campaign for more guns in the mall.

[12C]

It's pure deflection & total bullshit.

It's up there with "Guns don't kill people"

Latest research shows that in states where “open carry” and “concealed carry” are the norm, are now the top areas for gun theft, particularly from vehicles
Apparently putting a sticker in your truck window proclaiming your beliefs in 2A and your Glock, is taken as an advertisement that there is a gun in the car, to which criminals react by taking it.
More guns to replace those the criminals now have, say the NRA

[12C]

I got an air rifle at 12, used to shoot rats in the woods. Was a member of a gun club for over a decade, had a .357 Colt King Cobra, a 9mm CZ75 and after the handgin ban, a .22 rifle that was a replica of an M16. YThe whole culture around guns in the UK is a sport, we did target shooting, some went hunting, mainly rabbits and the gun club was a social place for men and women with an interest in target shooting, macho stuff, wearing camouflage clothing, etc was heavily discouraged. If you didn't fit in with that, you were quietly spoken to and if that didn't change your behaviour, you were expelled from the club. If you were expelled from a club, you lost your FAC and your guns ere confiscated (except for Thomas Hamilton, but that was a failure of the Police in the area).
There is definately something wrong in the psyche of the Americans that makes them want to settle issues by killing each other.

People may scoff, but Hollywood/TV is a key factor in promoting the macho gun culture.
Think cowboy movies where the good guy with the gun always wins, through to John Wayne winning the war, on land sea and in the air, and then coming back for an encore in Vietnam. Fast forward to Dirty Harry, and the huge numbers of films where the hero shoots the bad guy.
Now we have Netflix and Sky making series where gun violence, even just men waving guns is the thing. I had the misfortune to see part of a movie where the “hero” is a retired hitman who in response to his dog getting hurt, perpetrated a mass shooting at a nightclub, but it was OK becaue the victims were all baddies.
Added into the mix are young insecure males, who can’t get the girl, or are told that the reason they can’t get the girl is that the other guy is getting them all. They can’t get a job because the other guy won’t let them. They got fired, not because they are stupid, but because of the other guy. The other guy can be their mum, the kid in class, the black kid who was jogging down their street, anyone who they feel treats them unfairly.
The other guy soon becomes the bad guy, and we all know that the good guy shoots the bad guy in the end.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Always amazes me that Americans like building their homes out of wood, the weather is enough to put me off but add guns & your home is not a safe space.

Parents outraged over 90-day jail sentence for neighbor who shot and killed their son

The parents of a 20-year-old man who was shot and killed as he slept when his neighbor's gun accidentally discharged are outraged after learning the neighbor will only serve 90 days in jail, Newsweek reported.

 Austin Salyer was asleep in bed on September 16, 2021, when a bullet accidentally fired by his neighbor Gabriel Brown struck him in both his lungs. Brown, now 24, turned himself in to police and was later indicted and pleaded guilty to criminally negligent homicide.

Brown claimed he was modifying a gun when it discharged, and was initially sentenced to 180 days in jail, which was later shortened to 90 days.

Salyer's family is calling the sentence a miscarriage of justice.

"We've got our decades left to live without him," Rodney Salyer told The University Star in November last year. "He was our only child. So it's just us. We don't have other children to turn to. We'll never see grandchildren. We won't have anybody to help care for us when we're older. We won't be able to do all the plans that we had with him, so it's something we're going to have to live with for many, many years with a lot of pain."

The Salyers have asked for a hearing to review the shortened sentence, but have been denied.

[Ghost Town]

Awful tragedy. And yet another example of a gun eventually killing simply by dint of existing. The incident may technically be an 'accident' but it's no accident that a gun, a machine made for killing, existed, and fulfilled its grim purpose..

[AndyInVA]

Always amazes me that Americans like building their homes out of wood, the weather is enough to put me off but add guns & your home is not a safe space.

What kind of a fuck wit modifies a loaded gun.

I love how the first four words of the 2nd amendment are always over looked 'a well regulated militia'. It is the total opposite of well regulated. There is no requirement for firearms training. No training for basic commons sense approach to firearms that every military members receives before they start fooling with weapons.

Its utterly negligent homicide. If he was speeding and crashed his car into the poor guy it would not be 90 days. The fact he did not immediately unload the weapon in a safe direction makes him negligent for me.

Sad sad sad.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

What kind of a fuck wit modifies a loaded gun.

I love how the first four words of the 2nd amendment are always over looked 'a well regulated militia'. It is the total opposite of well regulated. There is no requirement for firearms training. No training for basic commons sense approach to firearms that every military members receives before they start fooling with weapons.

Its utterly negligent homicide. If he was speeding and crashed his car into the poor guy it would not be 90 days. The fact he did not immediately unload the weapon in a safe direction makes him negligent for me.

Sad sad sad.

A drunk & high or just plain stupid one.

[RJH]

I thought this was an interesting thread on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/13ejzr5/afearican_us_person_enjoying_freedom_in_a_safe


There a lot of comments from americans talking about how guns (actual and the idea of them) impact their day to day lives.

Even the ones who seems okay with it are interesting.
There is one guy who talks about how there was a gun threat at a school so all the parents turned up with their guns - apparently seeing that as an example of "guns are good" rather than an incredibly fucked up situation that is one misunderstanding or slip of a finger from turning into a bloodbath.

[rob1966]

People may scoff, but Hollywood/TV is a key factor in promoting the macho gun culture.
Think cowboy movies where the good guy with the gun always wins, through to John Wayne winning the war, on land sea and in the air, and then coming back for an encore in Vietnam. Fast forward to Dirty Harry, and the huge numbers of films where the hero shoots the bad guy.
Now we have Netflix and Sky making series where gun violence, even just men waving guns is the thing. I had the misfortune to see part of a movie where the “hero” is a retired hitman who in response to his dog getting hurt, perpetrated a mass shooting at a nightclub, but it was OK becaue the victims were all baddies.
Added into the mix are young insecure males, who can’t get the girl, or are told that the reason they can’t get the girl is that the other guy is getting them all. They can’t get a job because the other guy won’t let them. They got fired, not because they are stupid, but because of the other guy. The other guy can be their mum, the kid in class, the black kid who was jogging down their street, anyone who they feel treats them unfairly.
The other guy soon becomes the bad guy, and we all know that the good guy shoots the bad guy in the end.

Hell of a lot of truth in that, they always shoot the bad guy dead.

Biggest hypocrite is Liam Neeson, anti gun but makes movies like Taken

[PaulF]

Hell of a lot of truth in that, they always shoot the bad guy dead.

Biggest hypocrite is Liam Neeson, anti gun but makes movies like Taken

I'm not sure I agree with that. What if he also supported gay rights, but made films with no gay characters?
Also, weren't you saying the movies don't make you want to go out and shoot people.
Actually, that was Andy. I'll forgive you for wanting to shoot me for that mistake 😃

[rob1966]

I'm not sure I agree with that. What if he also supported gay rights, but made films with no gay characters?
Also, weren't you saying the movies don't make you want to go out and shoot people.
Actually, that was Andy. I'll forgive you for wanting to shoot me for that mistake 😃

With Neeson he's quite happy to earn huge amounts of money by glorifying the use of guns to kill the bad guys to rescue his daughter, his role is a man trying to protect his family and the only way he can do this is with a gun but then says its wrong that Americans who feel they need guns shouldn't have them. He's playing the whole good guy with a gun role, which they constantly say after every shooting, but then says you shouldn't have a good guy with a gun in real life. If you are anti gun, don't make films glorifying them.

Star wars made me wanna be a jedi but I've never wanted to actually shoot anyone after watching a film, but I don't live in a society that glorifies it.

[ScottScott]

TV, film and games aren't the issue and you all sound like pensioners with that attitude. Plenty of people around the world play video games with guns or watch films with guns and don't then go out and murder people. I've never wanted to go out on a rampage because I played GTA growing up or watched John Wick. The issue is solely down to the US and the ease with which guns are available

Someone playing make believe in a film doesn't make them a hypocrite if they hold anti-gun views in real life 

[AndyInVA]

TV, film and games aren't the issue and you all sound like pensioners with that attitude. Plenty of people around the world play video games with guns or watch films with guns and don't then go out and murder people. I've never wanted to go out on a rampage because I played GTA growing up or watched John Wick. The issue is solely down to the US and the ease with which guns are available

Someone playing make believe in a film doesn't make them a hypocrite if they hold anti-gun views in real life 

well said

I feel like the situation here can be distilled into

the fact that someone who is ...having their worst day ever/is clinically depressed/is very angry at someone/needs money ... etc can easily obtain a firearm

making that connection between sad/angry/violent people/criminals to guns is what perpetuates the grim body count

I dont see this as anything to do with Hollywood. Canadians, Brits and Austrailians all watch the same Hollywood movies, only the US has this level of gun violence

I see the problem here as purely a supply side situation

[Mumm-Ra]

Shortly after a gunman opened fire at the Allen Premium Outlets Saturday afternoon, Steven Spainhouer jumped into action.

Spainhouer rushed desperately to aid those wounded and dying after shots rang out a little after 3:30 p.m. May 6.

He said the victims had such horrific injuries that they had to be loaded into police cars because ambulances would not have gotten them to nearby trauma facilities fast enough.

When asked if he thought he saved any lives, Spainhouer said he's not sure, but knows he lost three people.

He said he raced to the shopping center when his son called to say there had been shots fired outside H&M—the store where he worked.

"When the multiple shots happened, my heart just dropped," he said. "I was on the phone with 911 and I was telling them we have a mass casualty incident."

Spainhouer said he got there before any first responders and while a handful of people around him recorded videos of the bodies on the ground, he tried to save lives.

"I never imagined in 100 years I would be thrust into the position of being the first first responder on the site to take care of people," he shared. "The first girl I walked up to was crouched down covering her head in the bushes, so I felt for a pulse, pulled her head to the side and she had no face."

Spainhouer said he also found a child, who survived while covered by his protective mother who had been killed.

"When I rolled the mother over, he came out. I asked him if he was OK and he said, 'My mom is hurt, my mom is hurt.' So rather than traumatize him, I pulled him around the corner sat him down and he was covered from head to toe...like somebody poured blood on him."

Spainhouer said what he witnessed Saturday will haunt him for the rest of his life.

"No one can see what we saw today and not be affected by it," he said. "It's not a situation I would wish upon anybody, it's just unfathomable to see carnage."

Spainhouer's son says two customers inside the H&M store were among those injured. "It's tough when you see a family that's out shopping, having fun, get wiped off the face of the Earth because somebody with a gun has some other type of issue."

What the fuck is wrong with people? and while a handful of people around him recorded videos of the bodies on the ground, he tried to save lives

Police now saying this guy was full of shit:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65597127

Weird...I'm sure he was there and saw some carnage, but then maybe tried to make himself more of the star of the show and added some extra spice to his account. All a bit unsettling really. It's not helpful when someone says all the right things (his account made for a powerful anti-gun message) and then they get discredited. Not that it changes anything

[Ghost Town]

Following that link led me to read a story about the victims. Something I've avoided doing so far. My fault for reading it.

I'm speechless with anger at that fucked up country and its fucked up worship of guns.

And frankly anyone who works in manufacturing and selling guns can fuck off as well. Let's call them what they are: Murder tools. Tools to make life easier and more convenient for murderers.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

At last a bit of action that will keep their tiny children safe.

Winnie-the-Pooh book teaches Texas kids to ‘run, hide, fight’ in a shooting

Stay Safe book, produced by a law enforcement consulting firm in Houston, was sent home in backpacks of children

Texas schoolchildren as young as four years old are being given Winnie-the-Pooh cartoon books, teaching them to “run, hide, fight” if a gunman enters their building.

Parents and teachers in the Dallas area have expressed alarm and concern that the Stay Safe book, produced by a law enforcement consulting firm in Houston, has been sent home in the backpacks of children in pre-kindergarten and elementary classes.



The book features the honey-loving bear created by AA Milne and illustrator EH Shepard instructing kids about how to react to a mass shooting. It is not an official production, Winnie-the-Pooh has been in the public domain since 1 January 2022.

The subtitle to the Stay Safe book is: “If there is danger, let Winnie-the-Pooh and his Crew show you what to do: Run Hide Fight.”

Run, hide, fight are the tactics advised by the FBI “should the unthinkable occur”.

Inside pages of the book, featuring other characters from the Hundred Acre Wood, tell kids: “If it is safe to get away, we should RUN like Rabbit instead of stay … If danger is near, do not fear, HIDE like Pooh does until the police appear.”

The “hide” page has a drawing of Pooh burying his head in a pot of honey.

On the following page, Kanga and baby Roo are shown wearing boxing gloves. The text says: “If danger finds us, don’t stay, run away. If we can’t get away, we have to FIGHT with all our might.”

The book was given to children in Dallas-area schools on Monday without discussion or comment either with teachers or the families who received it. The move came on the week of the first anniversary of Uvalde, the mass shooting in a Texas elementary school in which 19 children and two teachers were killed.

A teacher from a Dallas elementary school of about 500 students told the Guardian she found the book “terribly disturbing”. She had been given a stack of copies, she said, to give to each child in her class.

“I found it extremely disturbing, and was very uncomfortable with the whole contents of the book,” the teacher said, requesting anonymity.

The teacher added that she was troubled by the distribution of a Winnie-the-Pooh book at a time when Republican politicians in Texas were loosening gun laws.

“The fact that people think it’s a better idea to put out this book to a child rather than actually take any actions to stop shootings from happening in our schools, that really bothers me. It makes me feel so angry, so disappointed.

“It’s a year since Uvalde, and nothing has been done other than this book. That is putting it on the kids.”

Parents also expressed distress that their children brought the book home without any further instruction in the week of the Uvalde anniversary.

The Democratic governor of California, Gavin Newsom, went further, saying the book illustrated the cowardice of the Republican-controlled legislature in Texas.

“Winnie-the-Pooh is now teaching Texas kids about active shooters because the elected officials do not have the courage to keep our kids safe and pass common sense gun safety laws,” he said on social media.

Texas has some of the most lax gun laws in the US. In 2021, after mass shootings in El Paso and Odessa which killed 30 people, the Republican governor, Greg Abbott, enacted a law allowing Texans to carry concealed handguns in public without a license.

As part of the Republican-led charge towards censorship in schools, meanwhile, Texas has banned more books that address LGTBQ+ issues, race, gender and abortion than any other state.

The Police will come quickly and then stand around outside whilst your little bodies go all explodey over your classmates.

[AndyInVA]

11 year old boy calls 911 as there was a domestic disturbance at his house

gets shot by responding police officer, thankfully lives

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/24/us/mississippi-police-shooting-11-year-old-boy/index.html

[kavah]

11 year old boy calls 911 as there was a domestic disturbance at his house

gets shot by responding police officer, thankfully lives

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/24/us/mississippi-police-shooting-11-year-old-boy/index.html

Just seen that on CNN - poor kid. Cop has previous history of being a psycho. The legal analyst on CNN said he could get away with it as an “accidental shooting”. Quite a common successful defense apparently

[AndyInVA]

Just seen that on CNN - poor kid. Cop has previous history of being a psycho. The legal analyst on CNN said he could get away with it as an “accidental shooting”. Quite a common successful defense apparently

The thing is, in general I don’t entirely blame the Police. They are asked to do such a difficult job. Responding to incidents where people might be amped up and very probably armed. It’s no wonder mistakes get made.

The root problem is the wide availability of guns.

[Boston always unofficial]

The thing is, in general I don’t entirely blame the Police. They are asked to do such a difficult job. Responding to incidents where people might be amped up and very probably armed. It’s no wonder mistakes get made.

The root problem is the wide availability of guns.

The Police help create the problem,hire ex-military types that think they are still fighting the 'towelheads',pay them 20 bux an hour,the fetish uniform/badge/gun worship,almost guarantee it'll be shoot first or you'll get not going in there, like the shitheads in Uvalde. The so called community needs to step up to the culture they swim as well but not the thread for that,Memorial weekend over/under on mass shootins coming up over the next 3 days,double figures?

[AndyInVA]

Classic example of how gun crime is viewed in UK and USA

Two people were shot and killed after a high school graduation in the middle of Richmond, Virginia. 500 happy students and families were outside in an open area when shots started and people start fleeing everywhere. It was a targeted shooting and no bystanders were shot, although some were injured in the mayhem to get away.

The story was in the Daily Telegraph.

It was not in my regional Virginia newspaper.

It has to be pretty horrific for shootings to be news here.

[PaulF]

Just to play devil's advocate.  It's been shown that newspaper reports of such things can cause 'copycat' events . I think there's quite a long pyschological process. And not as simple, as "oh they've done, that , I'll do it too."
Could it be the paper doesn't report it for that reason?

I can see my 'argument' isn't overly strong, but thought I'd put it out there.

[Chakan]

Just to play devil's advocate.  It's been shown that newspaper reports of such things can cause 'copycat' events . I think there's quite a long pyschological process. And not as simple, as "oh they've done, that , I'll do it too."
Could it be the paper doesn't report it for that reason?

I can see my 'argument' isn't overly strong, but thought I'd put it out there.

Or if the Virginia paper reported on every gun incident in the state, it would be the size of a telephone book.

[AndyInVA]

Or if the Virginia paper reported on every gun incident in the state, it would be the size of a telephone book.

I hear your devils advocate point but Chakan is more accurate IMO

shootings are not news unless its a really horrible crime here

[AndyInVA]

I hear your devils advocate point but Chakan is more accurate IMO

shootings are not news unless its a really horrible crime here

to be fair to my local paper they did run the Richmond shooting today after the victims names were announced

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I hear your devils advocate point but Chakan is more accurate IMO

shootings are not news unless its a really horrible crime here

Murdering someone is a really horrible crime.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Jail if they're black, support and gofundme if they're white.

Detroit 6-year-old shoots his infant brother in the face with semi-automatic[/rul]

A 1-year-old boy in Detroit is miraculously recovering in the hospital after his 6-year-old brother shot him twice while he was in a bouncy chair, reported Local 4 News.

"The shooting occurred Wednesday (June 7) at 7:42 p.m. on Tennessee Street in the Jefferson Chalmers area," reported Brandon Carr. "Detroit police Assistant Chief Charles Fitzgerald gave an update on the situation. 'A 1-year-old baby was in his bouncy when another family member, a child, gets a hold of a gun and shot his sibling, not once but twice,' said Fitzgerald. 'The 1-year-old was shot through his cheek and through his left shoulder. We are very fortunate that that child is still with us.'"

"Officials say the baby’s mother was down the street visiting a friend while the father was outside in the backyard with an uncle and other children while working on a fence," said the report. "Fitzgerald said the gun was a fully loaded semi-automatic."

According to Fitzgerald, the gun in question was not properly secured. “Once again, preventable,” he said. “We’re here far too often talking about securing your weapons as there are gun locks, gun safes, or even the highest shelf you could find in your house. Put the gun up as high as you can.”

No one has been arrested as of now. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, Michigan has a safe storage gun law, but not an explicit child access to firearms prevention law.

Children getting access to guns has all too often led to tragedy. Last June, an 8-year-old in Escambia County, Florida fatally shot his sister while playing with a gun that his father owned illegally. A few months later, a 4-year-old in Corpus Christi, Texas took a loaded handgun to school.

[Boston always unofficial]

to be fair to my local paper they did run the Richmond shooting today after the victims names were announced

It's also like ya said local.Our local news gives more coverage to the dumb fuckers that randomly opened fire over memorial weekend here than they did to the Richmond killing or the shooting down in Florida.Also got vids so that makes "good" TV News.Scares people and plays up the stereotype image of shooters.

[Boston always unofficial]

Philadelphia topped the table over the July 4th Weekend. 5 dead,Shreveport second with 4.Boston had no dead 5 injured.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting.

[Buck Pete]

Currently watching the documentary on the 2017 LV shootings.  "11 minutes".

If that didn't jolt the USA into tightening its gun laws, nothing will I'm afraid.

Holy shit. Quite incredible the arsenal of weapons Paddock had.

[stewil007]

Currently watching the documentary on the 2017 LV shootings.  "11 minutes".

If that didn't jolt the USA into tightening its gun laws, nothing will I'm afraid.

Holy shit. Quite incredible the arsenal of weapons Paddock had.

until someone shoots up the government nothing will change.

[Buck Pete]

until someone shoots up the government nothing will change.

I appreciate the NRA are heavy hitters in the US political spectrum but forgive my ignorance, are they really THAT powerful?  Why aren't the people uprising?

Are there really that many people in the States that refuse to give up the right to bear arms?  I guess there is.

[Corkboy]

until someone shoots up the government nothing will change.

One of the two main parties literally attempted a coup and nothing changed.

[stewil007]

One of the two main parties literally attempted a coup and nothing changed.

what i mean is actually shooting up senators and congressmen/women and those in power.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

until someone shoots up the government nothing will change.

John F Kennedy feels ignored.