Topic: Today's shooting - The Sandy Hook Memorial Thread - Thoughts and Prayers

[Mumm-Ra]

My God that photo of those dead kids...only scrolled past it quickly on Twitter but it was enough. There may have been more horrific shootings (e.g. Sandy Hook) but I wonder if having a photo like that out there for everyone to see might bring a few more people round.

Haven’t seen the photos and don’t want to, but that’s a great point that I hadn’t really thought about before. The public opinion turning against the Vietnam war was down to people seeing the horrific reality of it on tv. With these mass shootings we are horrified but move on, not as easy to do that when the images are burned into your mind

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Haven’t seen the photos and don’t want to, but that’s a great point that I hadn’t really thought about before. The public opinion turning against the Vietnam war was down to people seeing the horrific reality of it on tv. With these mass shootings we are horrified but move on, not as easy to do that when the images are burned into your mind

They should, recall the impact of an open casket for a lynching victim (Emmett Till).

Post and video all of it, kids ripped to pieces, get hit with it. It happened. Never understood why you would be euphemistic / tone it down in seeking to improve things.

"He's a pedophile" when really
" He stuck his cock in a 5 year old"

Get hit.

[Red-Soldier]

The thread title needs changing: from this month, to this week.

[Brissyred]

Shortly after a gunman opened fire at the Allen Premium Outlets Saturday afternoon, Steven Spainhouer jumped into action.

Spainhouer rushed desperately to aid those wounded and dying after shots rang out a little after 3:30 p.m. May 6.

He said the victims had such horrific injuries that they had to be loaded into police cars because ambulances would not have gotten them to nearby trauma facilities fast enough.

When asked if he thought he saved any lives, Spainhouer said he's not sure, but knows he lost three people.

He said he raced to the shopping center when his son called to say there had been shots fired outside H&M—the store where he worked.

"When the multiple shots happened, my heart just dropped," he said. "I was on the phone with 911 and I was telling them we have a mass casualty incident."

Spainhouer said he got there before any first responders and while a handful of people around him recorded videos of the bodies on the ground, he tried to save lives.

"I never imagined in 100 years I would be thrust into the position of being the first first responder on the site to take care of people," he shared. "The first girl I walked up to was crouched down covering her head in the bushes, so I felt for a pulse, pulled her head to the side and she had no face."

Spainhouer said he also found a child, who survived while covered by his protective mother who had been killed.

"When I rolled the mother over, he came out. I asked him if he was OK and he said, 'My mom is hurt, my mom is hurt.' So rather than traumatize him, I pulled him around the corner sat him down and he was covered from head to toe...like somebody poured blood on him."

Spainhouer said what he witnessed Saturday will haunt him for the rest of his life.

"No one can see what we saw today and not be affected by it," he said. "It's not a situation I would wish upon anybody, it's just unfathomable to see carnage."

Spainhouer's son says two customers inside the H&M store were among those injured. "It's tough when you see a family that's out shopping, having fun, get wiped off the face of the Earth because somebody with a gun has some other type of issue."

What the fuck is wrong with people? and while a handful of people around him recorded videos of the bodies on the ground, he tried to save lives

[RJH]

Some truly horrific images doing the rounds from Dallas. Like a scene from a war zone. Saw some MAGA cnut on twitter reminding people to bring their guns with them when they go to the store. Imagine having to live like that, having to remind yourself too bring a loaded weapon with you just because you need to go to the shop. How the fuck do people live like that?
Seeing many Americans moving to Europe just because they can't hack the constant daily anxiety of having themselves or their kids shot.

Two obvious problems with that approach (that a lot of those types tend to ignore).
The first is that the more people walking around with guns, the more nervous and trigger-happy people are going to become.


The second is that having a "good guy with a gun" nearby may be too little, too late anyway.
In Dayton, Ohio in 2019, a gunman opened fire. Police happened to be nearby and he was shot dead 32 seconds after opening fire.
In those 32 seconds, he killed 9 people and injured 17 others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Dayton_shooting

[Mister Flip Flop]

Hadn't even heard about the latest shooting until this morning. Read it's some gang affiliated wanker. What a cnut.

[BOBSCOUSE]

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said it was also responding to the scene."  Swiftly transporting advertising boards and setting up a pop-up gun shop in the mall so the "good folk" of Texas can stock up on AR-15's and ammunition without delay.

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R) said he was mourning the victims of the “unspeakable tragedy” in Allen and grateful for the bravery and courage of first responders.  "Unspeakable tragedy" ie "I really don't want to talk about this awkward subject and the absolute dumbfuckery of sitting on my hands and not even attempting to push for gun laws to be changed - well, apart from making sure the good people have readily available armed forces munitions and hand-carry permits for all.

[BarryCrocker]

Hadn't even heard about the latest shooting until this morning. Read it's some gang affiliated wanker. What a cnut.

If you're talking about the one in Allen, Texas we have this being reported:

Authorities have not released a motive, but a patch on the shooter’s chest said “RWDS,” an initialism that stands for Right Wing Death Squad, according to people familiar with the investigation. The phrase is popular among right-wing extremists, neo-Nazis and white supremacists, they said, and while there is still a great deal of evidence to analyze, and authorities have not reached any conclusions yet, investigators are approaching the shooting as a possible hate crime.

[PaulF]

It's essentially radicalisation isn't it.  Rather than the usual trope of being greeted in Islamic heaven by hordes of virgins. These people feel their only worth is to go out in a perceived blaze of glory whilst sending infidels to the their death.
Surely they have to start rolling back these weapons of mass slaughter. Right to bear arms of a pistol perhaps. Far from idea, but far , far better than an assault rifle.

[jillcwhomever]

Haven’t seen the photos and don’t want to, but that’s a great point that I hadn’t really thought about before. The public opinion turning against the Vietnam war was down to people seeing the horrific reality of it on tv. With these mass shootings we are horrified but move on, not as easy to do that when the images are burned into your mind

Also, Hollywood has it's share of blame and the glorification of the gun in so many films and series on television. There are some films I have never seen and people insist their fantastic, but anything that involves cretins just gunning people down, is nothing I have any wish to see. No wonder people at times seem immune to it unless it actually effects them.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Also, Hollywood has it's share of blame and the glorification of the gun in so many films and series on television. There are some films I have never seen and people insist their fantastic, but anything that involves cretins just gunning people down, is nothing I have any wish to see. No wonder people at times seem immune to it unless it actually effects them.

For christ sake it's not Hollywood/video games/Marilyn Manson etc... No, it’s always been a crazy nation. A country founded on violence, taking what you want and of course slavery, sure what could have gone right?

[nayia2002]

Until a senior politician(or family member)gets killed/caught in one of these mass shootings (chances of that happening are very minimal/slim) and innocently killed, nothing unfortunately will change/happen with gun laws/2nd amendment!
 

[Jiminy Cricket]

Until a senior politician(or family member)gets killed/caught in one of these mass shootings (chances of that happening are very minimal/slim) and innocently killed, unfortunately nothing will change/happen with gun laws/2nd amendment!
 

If slaughtered children does not shift the needle, nothing will.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shooting

[12C]

My God that photo of those dead kids...only scrolled past it quickly on Twitter but it was enough. There may have been more horrific shootings (e.g. Sandy Hook) but I wonder if having a photo like that out there for everyone to see might bring a few more people round.

For some reason these latest shootings have hit me hard. It is really upsetting watching from thousands of miles away whilst people justify military grade weaponry and munitions being available to anyone regardless of their metal capacity or impairment.
I posted a link up the other day where people are trying to bring home the truly horrific nature of wounds from an AR15 round. It was very graphic but the parents of two kids murdered by such weapons had agreed to let the public see the damage done. It was done via diagramatic animation. It basically showed how the round makes a similar entry wound to a pistol round, but then tumbles and expands an also disintegrates causing  massive internal damage and a massive exit wound. Unlike in the movies and on TV, a single round basically blows the victim apart, an abdominal wound causing massive organ trauma. A head wound basically destroying the skull.  One of the children whose injuries were detailed was a victim of Sandy Hook.

Then I read the account from a chap who arrived on the scene in Texas and went to help a child lying with their hands over their head when he moved her she had no face.
That is the reality. Yet these self absorbed morally diseased  politicians take the NRA funding and spout their lies about prayers. And the redneck scum who cling to their truck and their gun as a symbol of virility are just as morally diseased because they think the answer is some Dirty Harry dickswinging wet dream, where they get some thrill from imagining confronting the bad guy and being a hero for just once in their sad existence.
That description of the child lying there dead, with her head blown apart was predicted with clinical precision by that WaPo article. It really hit home hard. An innocent child at a shopping mall was destroyed by a sick bastard with a gun, who was empowered and enabled, even encouraged, by an even sicker bastard called Gov. Abbott.

I can’t comprehend how anyone can be so devoid of compassion and humanity, so in love with money that they continue to lie on behalf of the armaments companies who make these weapons, along with high capacity magazines and suppressors and place such items into the hands of any wanker who wants one.
Don’t want to offend any of our American membership but if you still think guns are not the problem, then I’m sorry, but you are partly responsible for these murders.

[rawcusk8]

191 mass shootings in 127 days.. Yet they still wont change a thing.

[Chakan]

191 mass shootings in 127 days.. Yet they still wont change a thing.

Buy one get one free almost! Just need to bump the number a bit more. We're number 1 we're number 1.

[PaulF]

The thread title needs changing: from this month, to this week.

Or to today's 😥

[Ghost Town]

For some reason these latest shootings have hit me hard. It is really upsetting watching from thousands of miles away whilst people justify military grade weaponry and munitions being available to anyone regardless of their metal capacity or impairment.
I posted a link up the other day where people are trying to bring home the truly horrific nature of wounds from an AR15 round. It was very graphic but the parents of two kids murdered by such weapons had agreed to let the public see the damage done. It was done via diagramatic animation. It basically showed how the round makes a similar entry wound to a pistol round, but then tumbles and expands an also disintegrates causing  massive internal damage and a massive exit wound. Unlike in the movies and on TV, a single round basically blows the victim apart, an abdominal wound causing massive organ trauma. A head wound basically destroying the skull.  One of the children whose injuries were detailed was a victim of Sandy Hook.

Then I read the account from a chap who arrived on the scene in Texas and went to help a child lying with their hands over their head when he moved her she had no face.
That is the reality. Yet these self absorbed morally diseased  politicians take the NRA funding and spout their lies about prayers. And the redneck scum who cling to their truck and their gun as a symbol of virility are just as morally diseased because they think the answer is some Dirty Harry dickswinging wet dream, where they get some thrill from imagining confronting the bad guy and being a hero for just once in their sad existence.
That description of the child lying there dead, with her head blown apart was predicted with clinical precision by that WaPo article. It really hit home hard. An innocent child at a shopping mall was destroyed by a sick bastard with a gun, who was empowered and enabled, even encouraged, by an even sicker bastard called Gov. Abbott.

I can’t comprehend how anyone can be so devoid of compassion and humanity, so in love with money that they continue to lie on behalf of the armaments companies who make these weapons, along with high capacity magazines and suppressors and place such items into the hands of any wanker who wants one.
Don’t want to offend any of our American membership but if you still think guns are not the problem, then I’m sorry, but you are partly responsible for these murders.

Well said

And everyone is responsible for allowing a system that lets sick bastards like Abbott continue to take the NRA money and sit on his hands and waffle about prayers. A healthy society would not tolerate it for a moment.

It's a cult. The USA is a cult. Not just the guns part, all of it. Otherwise perfectly intelligent, decent, moral people also buy into this cult mentality. Even if they are against the guns part they still buy into the rest of the cult part. I'm talking about people I know, and care about.

And that's why it won't change.

Destroy the cult, start again. Easier said than done, I know.

[liverbloke]

For christ sake it's not Hollywood/video games/Marilyn Manson etc... No, it’s always been a crazy nation. A country founded on violence, taking what you want and of course slavery, sure what could have gone right?

you're missing the point totally

the outstanding majority of people who watch violent movies WILL NOT go out on a shooting spree - so if 40,000,000 people watch violent movies for 99.999% of them it will be 'entertainment'

that leaves us with the rest - the 0.001%

that leaves us with 400 people who will be affected by it

so okay, we still say 99% will just be strange oddballs who wouldn't do anything - that leaves us with 4 crazies

4 crazies - 3 of them might commit some milder copycat violence

that leaves us with 1

and 1 school shooting

so jill's point is valid - don't just laugh it away

of course we cannot ban movies for the majority but it is stupid to think that violent scenes do not affect violent people

and that twat of a policeman couzens who murdered sarah everard enjoyed watching extreme pornography

do we ban extreme pornography? no, but it undoubtedly perpetuates the gratification of sexual violence and it only takes 1 fucking sicko (that .001%) to commit an act of murder after watching it

so whilst i do not have the answer as to what we do next, the glorification of gun violence does need to be addressed - not banned but addressed

you cannot simply say ' i love watching horror movies where women are tortured and men have their heads slowly severed and people get shot through the head in slow motion and it has never affected me'

you are missing the point - it's not all about you, it's about the bigger picture and if that bigger picture is your child not coming home then we need some sort of debate don't we

but don't worry - you'll still get your entertainment if that's what you are worried about

[Chakan]

you're missing the point totally

the outstanding majority of people who watch violent movies WILL NOT go out on a shooting spree - so if 40,000,000 people watch violent movies for 99.999% of them it will be 'entertainment'

that leaves us with the rest - the 0.001%

that leaves us with 400 people who will be affected by it

so okay, we still say 99% will just be strange oddballs who wouldn't do anything - that leaves us with 4 crazies

4 crazies - 3 of them might commit some milder copycat violence

that leaves us with 1

and 1 school shooting

so jill's point is valid - don't just laugh it away

of course we cannot ban movies for the majority but it is stupid to think that violent scenes do not affect violent people

and that twat of a policeman couzens who murdered sarah everard enjoyed watching extreme pornography

do we ban extreme pornography? no, but it undoubtedly perpetuates the gratification of sexual violence and it only takes 1 fucking sicko (that .001%) to commit an act of murder after watching it

so whilst i do not have the answer as to what we do next, the glorification of gun violence does need to be addressed - not banned but addressed

you cannot simply say ' i love watching horror movies where women are tortured and men have their heads slowly severed and people get shot through the head in slow motion and it has never affected me'

you are missing the point - it's not all about you, it's about the bigger picture and if that bigger picture is your child not coming home then we need some sort of debate don't we

but don't worry - you'll still get your entertainment if that's what you are worried about

While I agree with most of that, the scary thing is that's it's easier to legislate for removing violence and restricting porn. It still doesn't deal with the underlying issue which is the proliferation and availability of the guns in the US. Which no one will legislate against.

The current slew of bills are making it easier, not harder, to carry and conceal guns.

So while conversation can happen with regards to violence in movies/games/what have you, it does nothing to lessen the actual problem of the guns.

The people admitting it's the guns are useless to act and the others are still trying to convince anyone who will listen that it's not the guns that are the problem. Until some power shift happens and the government are able to actually enact reasonable gun control, all the conversations can and will happen to no effect.

Just my 2c.

[Mumm-Ra]

you're missing the point totally

the outstanding majority of people who watch violent movies WILL NOT go out on a shooting spree - so if 40,000,000 people watch violent movies for 99.999% of them it will be 'entertainment'

that leaves us with the rest - the 0.001%

that leaves us with 400 people who will be affected by it

so okay, we still say 99% will just be strange oddballs who wouldn't do anything - that leaves us with 4 crazies

4 crazies - 3 of them might commit some milder copycat violence

that leaves us with 1

and 1 school shooting

so jill's point is valid - don't just laugh it away

of course we cannot ban movies for the majority but it is stupid to think that violent scenes do not affect violent people

and that twat of a policeman couzens who murdered sarah everard enjoyed watching extreme pornography

do we ban extreme pornography? no, but it undoubtedly perpetuates the gratification of sexual violence and it only takes 1 fucking sicko (that .001%) to commit an act of murder after watching it

so whilst i do not have the answer as to what we do next, the glorification of gun violence does need to be addressed - not banned but addressed

you cannot simply say ' i love watching horror movies where women are tortured and men have their heads slowly severed and people get shot through the head in slow motion and it has never affected me'

you are missing the point - it's not all about you, it's about the bigger picture and if that bigger picture is your child not coming home then we need some sort of debate don't we

but don't worry - you'll still get your entertainment if that's what you are worried about

It's similar to the argument of "well I have an AR-15 but would never do anything like this" - I'm not one for censorship but you can't ignore that that immersion in  single-person shooter games could be seriously damaging to someone that is already not wired correctly

The thing with America is that you can immerse yourself in movies, call of duty type games and so on, and then actually go out and buy the weapons and associated gear and really live out the fantasy.

I've mentioned this before on here - a common refrain of the gun nuts is to tie people up in knots about what is actually an assault rifle, and why is it so different from these other guns which people aren't challenging. The Virginia Tech shooter had two 9mm handguns and killed 33 people, so what is the difference? But if there's no difference, why do virtually ALL these mass shooters choose an assault rifle? It's because it's the perfect tool for the job.

Of course such a study would never happen - but I'd love to see a study of the psychological effects of having/holding an AR compared to a handgun or shotgun. The thoughts and mindset it generates.

[Boston always unofficial]

Well said

And everyone is responsible for allowing a system that lets sick bastards like Abbott continue to take the NRA money and sit on his hands and waffle about prayers. A healthy society would not tolerate it for a moment.

It's a cult. The USA is a cult. Not just the guns part, all of it. Otherwise perfectly intelligent, decent, moral people also buy into this cult mentality. Even if they are against the guns part they still buy into the rest of the cult part. I'm talking about people I know, and care about.

And that's why it won't change.

Destroy the cult, start again. Easier said than done, I know.

 

The whole country is a cult? 340 million people,need to be destroyed? i would say something sweary here but you know you're spouting bollox.

[Ghost Town]

 

The whole country is a cult? 340 million people,need to be destroyed? i would say something sweary here but you know you're spouting bollox.

Don't panic, I don't wish to destroy you

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Blaming Hollywood 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

 

The whole country is a cult? 340 million people,need to be destroyed? i would say something sweary here but you know you're spouting bollox.

GT said destroy the Cult not the people.

America is extremely cultish, right from pre-school you have your kids pledging allegiance daily, it then bleeds into your sports which to outsiders is cringey as fuck.

You also have 100m + "Christians" who wouldn't look out of place in the most extreme Middle Eastern states.

You do have a couple of decent folks though 

[Ghost Town]

GT said destroy the Cult not the people.

America is extremely cultish, right from pre-school you have your kids pledging allegiance daily, it then bleeds into your sports which to outsiders is cringey as fuck.

You also have 100m + "Christians" who wouldn't look out of place in the most extreme Middle Eastern states.

You do have a couple of decent folks though 

I absolutely adore the US; I'm a Americophile (if that's the word) having grown up on its art, literature, poetry, cinema and TV. Love the place and have many great friends there. But the cult mentality is cringey as fuck. And dangerous, IMO

[afc tukrish]

GT said destroy the Cult not the people.

America is extremely cultish, right from pre-school you have your kids pledging allegiance daily, it then bleeds into your sports which to outsiders is cringey as fuck.

You also have 100m + "Christians" who wouldn't look out of place in the most extreme Middle Eastern states.

You do have a couple of decent folks though 

Only a couple...

[Mister Flip Flop]

Blaming Hollywood 

The Western world has violent films/video games, it has porn, drugs, mental health issues, Marlin Manson etc... and yet we don't see these massive shootings week in week out. If only we could put our finger on the problem...

All the deflection from the gun issue is MAGA level bullshit.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Only a couple...

Used to be more but they had another 8 mass shootings over the weekend.

[Boston always unofficial]

The Western world has violent films/video games, it has porn, drugs, mental health issues, Marlin Manson etc... and yet we don't see these massive shootings week in week out. If only we could put our finger on the problem...

All the deflection from the gun issue is MAGA level bullshit.

It isn't deflection.The easy access to guns is the end result.But the effect of religion/movies/games/social media/music can't be ignored.Also the shitshow that trump and covid created has a long way to run.It's messed up.There are an awful lot of damaged people out there.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

It's pure deflection & total bullshit.

It's up there with "Guns don't kill people"

[Boston always unofficial]

So you think this guy was just an ordinary everyday guy who just decided to open up at the mall? The RWDS was nothing,the getting booted from the military nothing.

Details of the gunman’s background have begun to surface and investigators are considering whether he may have been driven by right-wing extremism, a senior law enforcement source familiar with the investigation tells CNN

[WhereAngelsPlay]

A normal American who had his mind poisoned watching Bambi.

[redbyrdz]

It isn't deflection.The easy access to guns is the end result.But the effect of religion/movies/games/social media/music can't be ignored.Also the shitshow that trump and covid created has a long way to run.It's messed up.There are an awful lot of damaged people out there.

I also think the US can be a very unfair country. The lack of social security, the lack of public health care - your life can very quickly be turned upside down, with no way out.

[Mister Flip Flop]

It isn't deflection.The easy access to guns is the end result.But the effect of religion/movies/games/social media/music can't be ignored.Also the shitshow that trump and covid created has a long way to run.It's messed up.There are an awful lot of damaged people out there.

I'm not ignoring the fact some movies/games/porn can have an effect on some people's minds but the fact remains people lose their shit in Belgium or Ireland or Spain or the UK every day and yes some end up killing others with a knife/axe/machete etc... but those same troubled minds can't kill scores of people because they can't walk into Tesco and buy an AR-15.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

American knife crime is higher than here as well, you wouldn't think so if you listened to the RW tossers though.

[PaulF]

American knife crime is higher than here as well, you wouldn't think so if you listened to the RW tossers though.

I assume, for clarity, and for future in person discussions I'll probably have at some point, that these are per capita knife crimes? And pretty much undisputed stats?
Ie can I quote you?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Per capita mate & has been since 2016

You're best to google yourself, this is one of them.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/stabbing-deaths-by-country


This year

UK   0.08
USA 0.49

[GreatEx]

I do intuitively agree with the idea that there's a rich tapestry of insanity in America- I've spent about 6 or 7 months there in total and loved it while also finding it emotionally exhausting - but have there been any empirical studies into the effects of violent or sexually explicit entertainment, or just rhetorical arguments? Whereas with the high powered, high capacity rifles, you can look to the experiences of other countries like my own (Australia) for compelling evidence that restrictions work. Put simply: if the AR15 had been banned after Sandy Hook, how many more Americans would be alive today? And what number should be considered acceptable collateral damage for their supposed benefit?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I do intuitively agree with the idea that there's a rich tapestry of insanity in America- I've spent about 6 or 7 months there in total and loved it while also finding it emotionally exhausting - but have there been any empirical studies into the effects of violent or sexually explicit entertainment, or just rhetorical arguments? Whereas with the high powered, high capacity rifles, you can look to the experiences of other countries like my own (Australia) for compelling evidence that restrictions work. Put simply: if the AR15 had been banned after Sandy Hook, how many more Americans would be alive today? And what number should be considered acceptable collateral damage for their supposed benefit?

God would've just given all the kids that he had planned to have gunned down an incurable cancer or poisoned Milk Duds.